The Everyday Trainer Podcast
Overcoming Puppy Blues: Building a Strong Bond with Your Dog through Simplicity | ft Emily Preston
Are you struggling with the dreaded "puppy blues"? Don't worry, we've got you covered as Emily from Homegrown Dog joins us for an insightful discussion on this lesser-known phenomenon (I hadn't heard of this before), her journey as a dog trainer, and the parallels between horse and dog training. From overcoming societal expectations to building a successful dog training business, Emily's experiences and insights will inspire you to trust the process and believe in the power of simplicity when it comes to dog training.
We delve into the importance of patience and understanding when teaching our dogs life skills, covering topics such as working with her new Malinois, navigating dog reactivity, and the potential pitfalls of overusing the 'place' command. Emily emphasizes the value of creating positive experiences around neutral dogs and shares her advice on simplifying pet dog training.
By the end of our conversation, you'll learn about the challenges and rewards of entrepreneurship, the similarities between dog and horse training disciplines, and how to approach dog training with a healthy balance of expectations and acceptance for your canine companion's individuality. So grab a drink, hang out, and join us as we chat about all things dog alongside Emily from The Homegrown Dog.
You can follow Emily on Instagram @thehomegrowndog or visit her website at thehomegrowndog.com.
Are you struggling with the dreaded "puppy blues"? Don't worry, we've got you covered as Emily from Homegrown Dog joins us for an insightful discussion on this lesser-known phenomenon (I hadn't heard of this before), her journey as a dog trainer, and the parallels between horse and dog training. From overcoming societal expectations to building a successful dog training business, Emily's experiences and insights will inspire you to trust the process and believe in the power of simplicity when it comes to dog training.
We delve into the importance of patience and understanding when teaching our dogs life skills, covering topics such as working with her new Malinois, navigating dog reactivity, and the potential pitfalls of overusing the 'place' command. Emily emphasizes the value of creating positive experiences around neutral dogs and shares her advice on simplifying pet dog training.
By the end of our conversation, you'll learn about the challenges and rewards of entrepreneurship, the similarities between dog and horse training disciplines, and how to approach dog training with a healthy balance of expectations and acceptance for your canine companion's individuality. So grab a drink, hang out, and join us as we chat about all things dog alongside Emily from The Homegrown Dog.
You can follow Emily on Instagram @thehomegrowndog or visit her website at thehomegrowndog.com.
I'm gonna have a plan, we're just gonna do it.
Meg:We're just gonna do it All right, ready? Sure, take another drink. Hello, and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. On today's episode, I'm joined by Emily from the Homegrown Dog. She's a dog trainer out in Sarasota, florida. We're gonna talk all about her experience as a trainer what it's like to start a business, what it's like being a horse girlie and so much more. So you know the drill grab yourself a tasty drink. Emily made us watermelon margaritas, so we are living our best lives right now. Grab a drink and meet us back here.
Emily:Hello, hello, welcome, thanks. How you feeling So good to be here, anxious, i know.
Meg:We were kind of joking beforehand that like I am Emily's Worst nightmare, Worst nightmare for her anxiety, because I don't plan anything and we just jump right into things. So that's what we're doing today. So Emily is a person that is very special to me. You were definitely one of my like first, like fangirlies I was gonna say like a whole ass fangirl for sure.
Emily:For sure. That was like three years ago. It's been probably maybe more than that.
Meg:Yeah, that's so wild, did you?
Emily:follow me when I was a dog walker. No, it was probably. I think it was right after I started Right when you were jumping into just the business stuff. Yeah.
Meg:Yeah, that would make sense. Yeah, so what kind of like got you into dog training? We talked a little bit about it earlier, about how you like followed me for a little bit and then you know like followed a few other trainers and your ideology kind of like hopped around. So talk us through that.
Emily:Yeah, so I got Sophie. She was my first dog that I had by myself, like on my own, away from my family, my parents and all that stuff, and she was a hellion Like the worst puppy you could imagine. I brought her home and like after 24 hours I had. They called them the puppy blues and nobody warns you about those until you're experiencing them And it was just literally.
Meg:Wait, no, talk about this. What is that?
Emily:Yeah, so the puppy blues are like a thing, for I guess I found out after you bring a puppy home. It's like what have I done? I've made a mistake. Why?
Meg:did I do this.
Emily:Really It's like Oh you know what, My friend.
Meg:Nicole does this too. We got Malinois puppies at the same time. She has like Minka's sibling and she was like depressed And I was like I'm so excited.
Emily:It's what you're talking about. It's literally like the puppy blues. It's what have I done? I've ruined my life. Like not ruin it, that's probably pretty dramatic, but like, what did I do? What did I bring and welcome, like I welcomed a demon into my home And hopefully willingly, willingly brought this thing into my house.
Emily:But she was just an awful puppy, just opposition at every single turn. Like the crate, she literally just hated all forms of anything that I tried to put structurally into her life, the crate being like the worst one. Like I'm talking three straight weeks of just screaming from sundown to sunup, like anytime you put her in the crate she would scream. And I'm not talking like scream for an hour, take a break, take a nap And then start again. I'm talking like from the time she was in the crate she would scream until you let her out of the crate, like at the top of her lungs.
Emily:It was the first night we got home at like I'm picking her up at probably like 1, 2 o'clock in the morning, She screamed for like six straight hours, Like straight through the night. So it was just it was a very sharring experience.
Emily:I was so excited to get our first dog. It was me and my boyfriend And we were excited I mean, i was more excited than he was. I really wanted, i was the one that pushed for it And I was like, oh my God, why did I do this? What the hell did I do? So I always knew before I got her that I wanted like a really well trained dog, going over to people's houses that are like they have unruly dogs that like jump all over you, they say sorry, but like let them keep doing that kind of stuff. My dogs But you can tell them to stop My dogs are literally feral. She doesn't have dogs, she has wolves.
Meg:I like encourage them to be crazy, though Let's be real.
Emily:You know that It's like my lifestyle.
Meg:Yeah, it would be one thing if I was like, oh my God, my dogs are driving me nuts.
Emily:And then, like you can't control it, yeah.
Meg:And I wasn't doing anything about it. You can tell them no, They act that way and you enjoy it, but you can tell them to stop, exactly, exactly. OK, i'm sure so many people would relate to, like the puppy blues thing.
Emily:Absolutely. Yeah, it's like. Wait, it's apparently like a thing. I was like I was in shock and I felt so guilty too. Like I really felt so guilty because I was like this is like the sweetest little ball of fluff that I brought into the home And I was just like I hate you, like I do not want you, and I felt so guilty. I was like I just took this little thing away from its mom, like away from everything it knows. All of this I know in my head Like I'm, like she is. This is like a whole ordeal for her. Yeah, to travel in a car, to do all of these things. And, knowing all of that, i still was like I literally hate you, get out of my house. But like it took a while for her to settle in And a lot of MacGyvering stuff that I've never had to do before, like to figure out a way to get her accustomed to the crate, because not crate training her was not an option for me.
Meg:Yeah, so what did you end up doing with her?
Emily:I set up so kind of similar to what you see over there. I have like a what would you call it? Like an X pen, so the puppy pens, yes, and I zip tied that to the sides of her crate, so her crate was like encompassed by the playpen and kind of let her use the crate as she wanted. It wasn't ideal for potty training, obviously, yeah, So that kind of. We watched her carefully.
Meg:But like with that, it's kind of like solve one thing at a time. Exactly, And you're like we're going to put off potty training to like get the crate going. The sleep was necessary for the two of us. You have to sleep. You're going to lose your mind.
Emily:We were this close to just turning her loose in the wild, so it was the lesser of two equals, but yeah, so just set up an X pen around her crate and just kind of let her vibe with that for a while. She was very good with that. Where she, where we picked her up. I won't get into all that because it was not a responsible choice. It was before. I knew all that I know. Now I will disclaim that I would never support a breeder like that, knowing all that I do as a trainer now.
Emily:But going forward, she was raised in like a very outdoorsy So like she had, they had like horse stalls, yeah. So the puppies were just in a stall And then they were outside a ton, which was great, like they were very environmentally sound puppies. However, they were not used to being in enclosed spaces, right. So I think putting a little bit more space around the crate gave her like a smaller enclosure to get used to before crate training her. So we did that for probably two weeks And then I was like, ok, potty training has to.
Emily:We've got to do that now as well, because I can't do this anymore either. So then I just worked on like incrementally, like I mean just as much as you'd crate train, just put her in the crate, lots of food, lots of happy, happy stuff, happy vibes, and then let her out and just worked that way. But yeah, it was tough. I really I was ill prepared for a puppy, as I feel like a lot of people are Like it's just like a thing in I don't know if it's just the United States, but like you, just getting a puppy is just something you do. And then you get one and it's like what do I do with this thing?
Meg:Oh yeah, it's like a whole thing. Yeah, i personally like really enjoy raising puppies, but I'm like a little bit chaotic and like so are puppies, you know. So like we're on the same page, guys are like on the same page.
Emily:Yeah.
Meg:Like I'll wake up every couple hours and then just like go right back to sleep, Right. So like when I do phone calls with people and they're like I'm losing my mind. Like I can't do this anymore. I'm like just send them to me. Oh yeah, because it just doesn't stress me out anymore, because I know it's on the other side of it, you know, but like for you, yeah.
Emily:No, i'm like this is never going to end, because I had never raised a puppy before. So, like as a dog trainer, we know, like that, that she passes, it'll get better. Yeah, but like on the front end of that, i like I called my, i told my parents, like because I live close to all my family, and I was like you know, give us a couple of days to get her settled, like, so that she's not too overwhelmed by, like all the people coming to say hi and stuff. And I was like let's just, like you know, get to know her a little bit, let her settle in. I called my mom at eight o'clock So we got home at two o'clock in the morning. I called my mom at eight o'clock in the morning. I was like I need you to come so I can sleep for three hours and shower. I felt like a new mom.
Meg:Yeah, it was literally. No, I mean, that's what it is.
Emily:Yeah it's wild, yeah, but yeah, i was. I was like I was in a hole. That's what it's like The puppy, the puppy blues are literally like what have I done? Like this is never going to end. What have what have I brought upon myself for the foreseeable future? Yeah, so yeah, we worked through it, of course, like she's, she's a good girl. Now She's an angel. I don't know what you're talking about.
Meg:She's asleep on the couch on her little pink blanket right now, like a precious little angel. She's huge too. It's huge.
Emily:No, i feel like, unless you see, like I don't know, i feel like even pictures of her with me don't really know put the perspective in very well, but like I did one, i posted it on my training page Instagram and Wednesday, like I was, she was helping me with like some positioning stuff And I sent the video to her. She was like holy shit, she is huge, like I was doing a front with her.
Meg:Yeah, she's like front with like between my boobs, yeah.
Emily:And I was like she was like oh my gosh, she's huge. Nobody, nobody realizes how big she is.
Meg:I thought a hundred pounds. Yeah, she's tall, she's very tall.
Emily:She's got a lot of I thought you were smaller.
Meg:I think that's like I mean.
Emily:I'm short, i'm five to, but she's are you? really Yeah.
Meg:I'm horrible with heights. Like if somebody asked me how tall you were, i'd be like I'm just probably like a little shorter than me.
Emily:Well, i say like I'm like five to, and then some like five, three on a good day, i'll say but yeah, she's just super lanky and I'm short. Yeah, no, but she's a good girl. She's a good girl And I will say, like she teaching a breed, like that, like I think I said this to you earlier. So I have a Malinois that I just got a couple of weeks back and training Sophie because of her breeds, um Bernie's mountain dogs, she's a Bernie's mountain dog and she's got some great Pyrenees in there. Both are a little more stubborn. Yeah, they have that stubborn streak and definitely the Pyrenees has that stubborn streak.
Emily:Oh, yeah, for sure, and she for sure has the stubbornness of the Pyrenees that came through in her personality. Um so, training her was everything, was so like elongated Isn't the right word, but like it took so much more effort, like I really had to like work on being patient and like really drilling the, the obedient stuff and working it so hard and with Valhalla, like isn't it crazy.
Meg:So, it takes like three reps to teach a Malinois anything.
Emily:Literally it's so. I mean I shouldn't say it's easy, because I'm not trying to.
Meg:It is easy, it is, but I'm also not trying to market that.
Emily:Those are like the dogs. I was literally.
Meg:I was literally just talking to Marcella about this, because I taught Minka place in like two seconds and I was like bro, just the fact that I haven't done anything like pet dog training with her for a year and then I can do it in like five minutes, like these. Malinois are so easy to train like to do things.
Emily:Yeah, exactly, I mean. the other side of it is that they are feral and like the other stuff is not so far.
Meg:Yeah, Like.
Emily:I mean, it depends on who you are, but like you like that, yeah, i do. She's like, yeah, i fucking love it.
Meg:No, but to be fair, like, uh, like Marcella has like real Malinois, like Minka was raised by Golden, So she's like a little bit like a golden retriever on the inside. Yeah, i mean it's just like the energy of them. Yes, you know like the energy never stops, but I mean like you can teach them to do things so quickly.
Emily:It is wild And, like I said, like teaching Sophie first, it really taught me so much patience, like that was probably the biggest lesson I took away from training her on my own was patience. And so now, like having a dog like her and knowing all that I know now it's like wow, is this what it's like?
Meg:Oh my God, why nobody told me I know. And like, when you train one of those like really stubborn dogs and then you train other dogs, you're like, oh, this is so easy. For like a period of time I was only a golden doodle trainer And I'm like, if you can train golden doodles, you can train in any. Like they're unmotivated by life.
Meg:They like, like, if you want them to do something they're like I want to do the opposite, like you want to pet me. Disgusting, don't even look at me. I would rather die than take food from your hand. You're like okay, well, perfect, can't wait. This is the best. This is so much fun for both of us. Yeah, that's like training a golden doodle, basically Exactly. Well, what other things did you like struggle with with her?
Emily:I would say especially like my situation. I don't have a lot of friends with dogs down here, and the ones that do have dogs like not that they're psychotic dogs, crazy dogs, but like just not neutral. Yeah, i wanted I was very much so like from the get. I wasn't a dog trainer when I got her, but I was like invested in learning everything I could to make her like the best, most well rounded dog I could, and so I was like not taking her to dog parks. I'm not taking her like play with a shit ton of other dogs that I don't know or anything like that. So it was like trying to balance her. She's snoring. She's snoring. It's like what is that noise?
Meg:Oh my gosh, she's so cute.
Emily:So like trying to teach her how to be neutral around dogs when all the dogs around us were reactive as hell. So like, yeah, go on walks and I'm teaching her like a loose leash walk and doing walking drills and all that stuff And all the dogs on our street are like popping the fuck off at the end of their leash And she's like what's happening? What's happening? So like she was never really like severely reactive or anything, but I could tell there was an anxiety there.
Meg:And.
Emily:I really couldn't tap into helping that because I didn't have a way to put her around neutral dogs, which I feel like is.
Meg:I feel like it's probably common, like it's something that, because there aren't a lot of neutral dogs, well, this is the conversation that I have all the time when I'm doing phone calls with owners is they're like I just wanna train my dog to feel better around other dogs. And I'm like, honestly, it's really tough for you because you don't have any stable dogs that you have control over. Exactly That you can be like hey, you don't have to freak out around this dog, like you don't have to be stressed Like look and create new experiences around neutral dogs.
Emily:They're positive.
Meg:Yeah, and that's like a big thing, Like I guess like selling point for like working with us is I'm always like listen, we got like a whole bunch of dogs that we have control over, that are neutral to other dogs.
Emily:So that we can have good experiences with the dog.
Meg:We can create new experiences with your dog, but it's tough for me to recommend that to people you know or people are like how do I work on neutrality with my dog? And I'm like it's honestly hard. It's hard Like as an owner.
Emily:Absolutely. And I was struggling because I was like I know the best way to do this is around other dogs. So like I had a friend, mary, and she has like the sweetest black lab that could literally give a flying F about other dogs, like she's the sweetest, loves people, Like she loves other dogs like but could care less. Yeah, so I like took Sophie to her backyard and like played with Sophie and Harper, literally just like hung out with us And Sophie was like this is crazy, like why aren't you playing with me? And she was just like chilling, she'd like sniffer and then walk away, and so that helped. But what really helped was when I started training or started as a trainer and got to bring her to the facility that I was working at, because she was in a kennel room with other dogs. There are people coming in and out of the room, like she was around a little bit more.
Emily:I don't want to say chaos, but like around a little bit more like lively energy And she learned how to settle in that And it literally stopped.
Meg:I talk about it like it's public school, exactly.
Emily:It's literally teaching somebody with anxiety to just like exist around people, to just like go to school. Yeah, that's like what I tell.
Meg:Like everybody in my houses I'm like it's kind of like public school, Like it's a big chaotic, but like it's good.
Emily:But it's good for you. It's a good experience.
Meg:It's good for you, for sure.
Emily:Like I had anxiety and I just started serving again after, like not really, i don't want to say like having contact with people, human, contact. Like training dogs for a full year.
Meg:And you say like five words at a time.
Emily:Exactly, and so it's like jumping into a job like serving It's. I was in shock for like a whole week. I was like like I would try to like banter back with people and my brain would shut off like short circuits. So it's literally like that. It's like just teaching something throwing them into the quote unquote, deep end a little bit And just being like, hey, you're good. You're fine, you'll figure it out. These dogs are chill.
Meg:So when did you realize like as an owner, you wanted to kind of like, obviously have a well trained dog and like, get into training personally. But when did you realize that you wanted to train dogs for a living and help other people train their dogs?
Emily:Oh my gosh. Well, i've always been like a people person. I really enjoy like the like community aspect of things. So I served when I was younger. That was like my first job and I loved it. I loved like interacting with people and like all that good stuff. So, finding something that I was super passionate about, like I didn't even really realize it My boyfriend at the time. He's still my boyfriend At the time, damn we just booted him in this podcast episode.
Meg:See you later, yeah.
Emily:Actually he's gone. But at the time, once I started like getting really into everything with Sophie, my boyfriend was like why don't you like start a business? I was like I can't do that. He was like, but why? I was like I just can't do that.
Meg:I really can't do that.
Emily:I know that I can't do that. It's like I corporate job, like that's just something that like I was in one of those families that it was not an entrepreneurial kind of family, it was a very much so like we worked with companies and like I thought that was like hammered into me, like you must do this, but it was just like kind of ingrained in my head, just like the expectation Exactly, and I went to college and like going from high school to college, it's like there are just expectations society puts on you And that was kind of what was in my head.
Emily:So I was just like, no, i can't own a business.
Meg:No, that's not for me.
Emily:I can't do that And what I'm like why? it was like you definitely can and you're super passionate about it, so you should look into that. And I was like, huh, that's an interesting concept, like maybe I should do that, yeah, and so it was probably, i don't know. Well, i cannot get over her snoring.
Emily:So loud It was probably when she was about a year and a half, because I had really like gone through it with her and we were kind of starting to come out on the other side that I was like, oh, this is pretty cool, like this journey has been wild, yeah, but like I had really enjoyed it, but also knowing that there were probably faster ways to do what I had done, because I really like I was an owner, i didn't know anything And I was doing everything based on like the little tiny videos you put on your page And I was like, take that to heart.
Meg:It's like use that as Bible. I love that.
Emily:So it was just like it took everything took me a while, like way longer than it should have needed to, But at the same time I learned a lot and she learned a lot too. So once I got her to like kind of the other side of her teenage bullshit, I was really like, okay, maybe I could do this, Like this could be really cool And like I love people and I enjoy interacting with other people. So it was like that could be a cool way to like live my life. You know, I don't have to do corporate bullshit, I could actually enjoy what I do. That's kind of cool concept. So yeah, it was probably when she was around a year and a half old.
Meg:I've also been talking to you about starting your own business for like way too long.
Emily:Neg has been telling me to start my own business, literally since, like our sixth message back and forth after Sophie was like two, like I had Sophie for two months, she was like dude, just start your own business.
Meg:Just be a dog trainer, just be a dog trainer.
Emily:It'll be fine, And you're like I don't know anything.
Meg:I'm like you're fine.
Emily:I literally don't know anything. She was like you'll figure it out Again. My anxiety is worst enemy. Here we are. What Two years later? and you're like she finally started her own business.
Meg:I'm like God damn. It's been a while It's been a while You are a perfectionist, i am, and it is like it's an inner battle that I have with myself constantly.
Emily:Like you are a free spirit and I am truly the opposite. Like I am the most chained OCD, like anxiety-ridden human being, you are for me And you are truly the mirror.
Meg:I like, i don't know, i don't do it like intentionally.
Emily:Like it's not like.
Meg:I'm like, I'm gonna go like live life flying by the seat of my pants, like I just I literally cannot think into the future. Like people are like what are you doing tomorrow? And I'm like that's a good question. What does my Google calendar say? I don't know. I'll wake up that day and I'll figure it out.
Emily:Figure it out. It's like your worst nightmare. I can't See the planner behind you. See that. That is my-.
Meg:That is my worst nightmare Daily planner that I cannot function without. No, Tori keeps my life together. This is why Tori is so stressed all this time. That's gonna say I can't, i don't know. I've always been like that, like I don't know what it is, but I just like cannot think. I cannot plan very well. I can't like think into the future. I feel like anytime I try to plan it just never goes to plan. So I'm like I just can't. What's the point? Yeah, what's the point? I mean, i totally get that.
Emily:I just am, I like, I for sure have like OCD And you're like no, i have mental health issues.
Meg:I literally have mental health problems. That.
Emily:I can't not do that, Even though I know it's not good for me and it won't pan out. anyway I think it's.
Meg:I don't think it's like a good or bad thing. You know, I think it's just like strengths and weaknesses Because, like you can look at, like my life is a little bit too chaotic. It does not need to be this way. You know, like I should probably plan out like further than just like a couple of days, for sure You know so like we're working on that, but like you, like that's a very valuable skill, like I need people like you you know.
Emily:I mean, it's definitely valuable, but like the chaos that is like the inner monologue in my head, i can't. Yeah, i guess it's like the stress of it is not healthy. This correct, and I think, like my mom has literally been telling me this for years, that I'm going to give myself a heart attack by the time I'm like 30, because I just like I am at level 100 all the time until I go to sleep And even when I'm sleeping I'm still at a 50. If you wake me up, like if you wake me up, i'm still like drop of the hat, like okay, what do we need to do? Like what can I do to plan this? Like so I don't know, it's got great strengths, like organizationally.
Meg:Your house is pristine. Do you know It's pristine Do you know You're very wifey, you're very like domestic.
Emily:I definitely.
Meg:And you're 27,. You act like you're 90.
Emily:I definitely, I for sure do. I'm definitely like a house cat and you're definitely like a feral barn cat. Yeah, i am like a pampered little, like fluffy house cat and you are like a, like a little a matted, matted barn, dirt feral barn cat. That can't be touched.
Meg:I literally show up to your house with no shoes and dirty feet.
Emily:She literally told me she came to my house and she was like I'll sleep in my van, it's fine. I was like what She's like, it's fine, i'll just leave in my van. I was like I literally have a whole guest room.
Meg:But whatever you want.
Emily:I mean, I can't force you to sleep inside.
Meg:Bro, I cannot.
Emily:Like what is wrong with me?
Meg:Why are you like?
Emily:exact opposites, like absolute exact opposites.
Meg:Okay, i was like living on in my van for like the first couple months of this year And when I moved back into a house, girl Did not know how to act.
Emily:Literally I couldn't exist in air conditioning, first of all.
Meg:Second, i could not sleep in the room because it was too big, like, like, like. It was like too echoey. I needed to be in the crate, basically.
Emily:We need. Where can we get a sponsorship from impact crates Like?
Meg:just, i need a big one, a twin size, the great name, size, impact crate.
Emily:Oh no what's wrong with me So bad Well?
Meg:I mean, I could say the same thing.
Emily:We're just, we're just playing on opposite opposites.
Meg:Oh my gosh.
Emily:There are strengths to both sides, though. I mean I definitely look at you and I'm like God. I wish I wish I could be like that sometimes, cause it's stressful dude, like feeling like everything has to be perfect constantly, like especially running a something out of your home when you have. I mean I'm definitely not trying to like I have OCD at a very mild degree, like I'm not somebody that like has to count things or anything like that. Like cleanliness and tightness for me is definitely like it's like compulsive.
Emily:Like I it has to be, or else I get overwhelmed and stressed. So it's good because it's like okay, my house is clean, like I'm. You know, that's fine, that's not like a bad thing to do Like clean your house. That's fine, But like I get anxious and like poor Wyatt, like, bless his heart, he really really like is the calming force to my anxiety storm. But like I just like I don't know, it's hard, it's hard, it's a lot.
Meg:How is he?
Emily:He's the exact opposite. He has. I mean, he can be anxious, but he's definitely a very like more calm and quiet force as compared to my like very loud and like I'm like loud, anxious, and he's more just like quiet, like okay, that's calm.
Meg:Yeah, yeah.
Emily:Yeah, exactly So. It's opposite. It's definitely a true good.
Meg:You guys balance each other out.
Emily:We do, but he definitely does more of the balancing. But, like with regards to the dog training stuff, it's definitely like I don't know. I think it's good, but I think sometimes it also like forces me to hyper fixate on things instead of big picture, look at things.
Meg:I remember, like the conversation myself. Yeah.
Emily:Looking at things to to pinpointed instead of big picture, like, okay, the dog in itself, like is struggling with this, Okay, generally, what can I do? as opposed to like I don't know?
Meg:I have to fix this problem specifically.
Emily:The dog, like won't stop trying to charge out of the crate. Like, fix that, fix that, fix that.
Meg:Yeah.
Emily:And like okay, why is the dog like let's pull back the lens a little bit more? And I know now, like I know myself and now as a dog trainer, like I'm a little bit more experienced, but I can definitely catch myself falling into those like rabbit holes, yeah, and it's definitely like things I don't want to say anxiety, but the more ADHD, ocd kind of tendencies, yeah, like coming out in the dog training I was actually just talking to Wensley about this.
Meg:So Wensley is one of my friends, she's in Austin, she is dating Clayton, that's kind of how I got to know her.
Meg:But I was talking to her recently cause she also just got into dog training and she is doing daily training and she's on week one with a golden retriever And I don't really remember like the specific issues that she was talking about, but she was like Meg, i feel like I'm not gonna be able to like train this dog. Like I'm like I'm freaking out, like I don't know what I'm doing And I was like, all right, you need to chill one. Like it's week one, yeah, you have three more weeks. Like you need to trust the process and you need to know that. Like you just got to keep putting in the reps, you just have to keep doing it. And like the more experience that you get, you realize like, oh, i always feel like this. In the beginning. I always feel like, oh, my God, i don't know what I'm doing, like I'm never going to be able to train this dog, and then by the end you're like, wow, i'm such a good dog trainer.
Emily:I'm like, i'm like, i'm like the best dog trainer ever, yeah.
Meg:No, but like I, I know that you can like see me now and you're like, oh, you're just like wing in life, you know.
Meg:But like I am like this because I was like so anxious, Like I used to be so anxious and I used to care so much about what people thought and like overthought everything that it was literally like killing me.
Meg:And then I got to the point where I was like honestly, like nothing really matters, in the best way possible, you know. But like I experienced that early on in my training career because you just don't have the experience. So when you get a dog, that's like difficult and you're trying to work through problems and they don't immediately solve themselves with like the things that you're practicing, like in that moment you're like, oh my God, I'm never going to be able to train this dog Absolutely. But like as an experienced trainer, I know that by the time I get, you know, to the third week, things are really going to start coming together. So like I don't stress up until that point because I know like, just keep doing what you're doing. You know, just like, keep going at it, trust the process. You know what you're doing. The dog is going to be trained.
Emily:And that's kind of-. Well, the dog will tell you what they need to. So, like, if you're like I don't know by week two, if the dog's like still struggling in a certain area, you have so many tools in your toolbox that you're like okay, so by week two, like you should be here, but you're not. So like, here's what we're gonna try instead. So you have so many more like tools at your disposal when you're a little bit more experienced and after you have those dogs that like grind your brain a little bit.
Emily:They're like oh my God, why did I take this dog off?
Meg:Like what is this?
Emily:It's like you actually have to work some muscles that you haven't had to, and then, once you work them, it's like exercising, like you have like that strength there and it's just there. And then, when you get dogs that are similar, it's like you can still pull from that.
Meg:Yeah, just like that experience kind of gives you the confidence, as you're like moving through those stages of like well, we're not fixing this like specific problem yet, but I know that like the general training is going to like fix this problem And that's something that I talked to you a lot about when you were trying to start your business is you're like I feel like I don't have enough information, i feel like I'm not gonna be able to train these dogs, or like just feeling insecure about what you know, and I'm like, listen, you know so much more than you're one giving yourself credit for and two than the average owner You know.
Emily:So like the little things make the biggest impact for people literally Really what I've, even I don't know just talking to a couple owners and being able to walk them through, like with Stanley, my last born and train. It was like you know, he's crazy outside and we really can't like we're struggling with him. you know, listening to us and it's literally as simple as hey. keep a leash on him inside, that way you can enforce what you're saying to him.
Meg:Literally blows people's minds.
Emily:Literally. I mean it was like, wow, that's like such an easy fix, but it's so, it has such an impact, yeah, so it's like when you're taking him outside, put a long line on him. Don't let him just have the whole effing yard to romp and then blow you off when it's time to go inside. You have a long line. If he's romping around, you walk up to the long line and you walk him inside.
Meg:Yeah, if you say come and he doesn't come, like go grab the leash, you grab the long line and you bring him inside anyway.
Emily:So it's like just stuff as simple as that. I mean, obviously, dog training is nuanced, no but honestly it gets way too over complicated. But I think, exactly. I think a lot of it definitely is put into the weeds more than it needs to be. Yeah, I really struggle with that.
Meg:I struggle with that. Like I, the dog trainers that like over complicate everything or have to use like the specific terminology. Like I posted something the other day and I was like I don't even know what I was explaining. but I was explaining a dog training concept, i just didn't use the terminology. And then somebody messaged me and was like you need to talk about this And I was like bro.
Emily:I was taught. That's literally the concept I was explaining, but I just didn't use the freaking scientific term for it.
Meg:It doesn't matter Like, because I called it a great white shark instead of like a top whatever scientific name, the scientific name, yeah, no, exactly.
Meg:And it's like, if our goal is really to help owners and this is pet dog training, you know, absolutely Like this is we're not talking like sport or anything you know advanced Like this is genuinely pet dog training We're working with, you know, regular ass people, owners. Like it does not need to be complicated. We need to make it as simple as possible because, at the end of the day, the training that's going to work is the training that people can keep up with. Exactly.
Emily:And I think that's the biggest thing that I pulled from your page before I was a trainer. that stuck with me the longest is you can get as nitty gritty as you want into like the depths of dog training with an owner and like why this works, why this doesn't work, why you have to do, you know this and this and this and this and the science behind it, and it's like none of that matters if what you're handing back to them is not going to be put into play once they're home Right. So like if you're doing a board and train and you are going into just so many specifics, i mean certain people will eat that up. I mean, if I would have done that.
Meg:I would have eaten that shit up with a spoon, And I'll do that with some people. Some people, yeah but it's.
Emily:But that's like the thing where it's like the cookie cutter stuff, where it's like you, like you have to explain certain, like just certain concepts and stuff. It's, some people just don't learn that way Am.
Meg:I ever going to explain operant conditioning to an owner. Correct, correct, no, it doesn't matter, right, you know?
Emily:I mean the concept behind it. great, As long as you can like put it into like lay me a stone.
Meg:Yeah, i'll show you like how to do it, but I'm not going to be like this. Is operant conditioning Correct?
Emily:This is positive punishment. Yeah, this is negative.
Meg:Yeah, we're not going to go into like the four quadrants, right exactly, it just doesn't matter. I'm going to tell you, like, what to do with the dog in front of you And even like, sometimes, when I get dogs, like I'm not doing like duration place with them. You know, and that was one thing that, like Marcella the new trainer, she came in and she's like so used to just running through obedience and doing like place with every dog And I'm like why am I going to do duration place with this dog when this owner hasn't even created their dog before? I just want them to create the dog.
Meg:I was going to say that's Like that's going to be a huge win.
Meg:Like, yeah, we can come back later and we can do place work with the dog, but like I'm not going to put this dog on place because it's never going to use this skill ever.
Meg:I will teach place and I will practice place, but we're more so going to use it as an opportunity to practice our timing, practice our marker words, do something engaging with the dog. I'm not going to use it as like a replacement of downtime, you know, because that's like a big thing in dog training is like put your dog on place while you're like doing whatever, and it's like, yes, but if you can't sit there and hold your dog to that place, like even my dogs and like Marcella's dogs like they pop up from place and we have to get up and we have to put them back on place. They know place, they know the expectation, but they're going to push it. So, like the average owner, like their dog is going to push them 10 times more, are they going to stand up every single time and bring their dog back over to place? No, is that more damaging to the relationship? Yes, you know. So like I'm just going to tell those people just create your dog.
Emily:Right And I like that you said that you know, depending on the dog and depending on the situation and the owner, because honestly I feel like so much of that is can be lost in dog training. where it's, you just do it because it's something you do.
Meg:This is what you're told to do. This is what you're told to do like go to place and stay there.
Emily:But it's like you know, in that situation with that owner and that dog, is that actually beneficial? Is like the place caught, like I don't know? I can think to a dog that I trained in the past that really struggled heavily in the crate but he was okay on the place, cop, but that was because he was out and around people, so it's like that's not getting to the heart of his. I mean truly separation anxiety because Microphone Oh sorry, she turns around, there I go.
Meg:I pointed to the microphone.
Emily:She looks behind her. Who's behind me? I was like shit, who's there? I thought she got up. But yeah, so just like if that dog in that particular situation it's like you know, yes, teaching them place is beneficial. It's not like you're not hurting the dog by teaching them place.
Meg:Yeah, but it's not really going to fix your issues.
Emily:But it's not helping like yes, that's an obedient command, that's great, like that you can teach that dog that obedience command, that's great. But like the dog is struggling with the crate because they have separation anxiety. So what needs to be worked on first? it's not the place won't be beneficial in the future. It's just like if you're in a training program or a board and trainer something, you have a limited amount of time, so you really have to allot your time to what the dog is telling you they need the most.
Emily:And that's, i think, the biggest thing, the biggest takeaway I have from just pulling from all these like either mentors or accounts that I follow and like training stuff that I consume. It's just like in my head. I don't know, it's just, it's so, it's the age old, it depends on the dog, like it all depends on the dog And they will tell you what they need. And I think being able to like being a dog trainer, one of the most important things is being able to read the dog in front of you and have them tell you what they need the most.
Emily:As opposed to just okay, you're in a training program, he'll sit place down Like you must learn these things.
Meg:This is my biggest issue with like other trainers and like other training facilities is like you can have an obedient dog all day long. Oh, okay, we'll go over what I was like talking about earlier when I'm like interviewing people. So I'm interviewing trainers right now And one thing that I say to everybody is I'm like look, i give my trainers a lot of freedom because I want to see how you think without me telling you what to do. Absolutely, You know, and I train my trainers the same way I train the dogs. I'm going to give you freedom because I want to see how you think without somebody telling you, like everything that you need to do.
Meg:I have such an issue with like trainers just you know, pounding these dogs on fucking obedience, and then you have a dog who literally cannot think for themselves. They can only function if they're in a command And then when they're not in command, they're just like, oh, like I don't know how to function. Like tell me what to do, and it's like that is not helpful. Like, yes, you have an obedient dog, but like your dog can't think for themselves. Like what happens when they're out of command?
Emily:Like then what you know and, honestly, something when I was so this was before I was a trainer when I was just training Sophie, literally based on like stuff I was researching. So it was a lot of like it wasn't training like system, it was hodgepodge information that I pulled from this trainer, that trainer, this trainer, that trainer, whatever I thought like I aligned with, i pulled, yeah, which fine, but like I was an average owner and I didn't know what I was doing, yeah, so like, not super helpful for my poor dog, but she, like you know, she suffered through, but like I was so focused on her being like the quote unquote calm mindset, which is great. Obviously I want to pattern that, but I align that with like place and obedience and like I don't even want to say obedience, i was so I don't know why, but I was fixated on place, like that's like a thing Place was something that I was like she has to be able to hold, like you know, an hour, two hours, like just be able to chill there, and she can.
Emily:She like she loves her place Got she'll chill there for hours. If I mean, if you let her, like she told her to go on there, she'll stay on there for you know, until you tell her to get off. Yeah, but it wasn't teaching her how to integrate into the house, so, like when you came over, i used to be fixated on she had to go to place. When somebody came over and granted, i want to. I want to like backtrack a second. That's great to do when you're teaching a dog at first how to be calmer when company is coming over.
Meg:Yeah.
Emily:It's a great tool. However, i think too many people get locked in on the necessity of using it and then it becomes a crutch instead of teaching a dog how to like function function in a home, and so I got so attached to the idea of her being calm on place and then releasing her when she's calm, and that's great in theory, but then I was doing that so much to the point where the release from place was an explosion of energy, because it was building.
Emily:She was acting calm until she knew she was going to get released, And then it was Holy shit Yeah.
Meg:It's the anticipation of coming off of place.
Emily:Exactly, yeah, and so that became like a whole nother thing that I had to train after that And I was like what is this? Like that place was supposed to fix this But it didn't. So like learning and stumbling through all those things was super helpful for me and like coming up with my own ideals of things, because I feel like I struggled through that And I was like you know, place is great I love place Like this is good for her and it is good for her It's great to be able to send her there, Like if she's being a pain in the ass.
Emily:I can just be like hey place, go chill for a second, Yeah, And then I can release her and she's usually like got it, Like I was being too much.
Meg:Yeah, no problem, yeah, yeah I get the picture.
Emily:But, like the way I was using it before, it was just like you said, a replacement of a crate. If I couldn't keep an eye on her, keep her calm, like like teach her how to function around people. Like have her on a leash attached to me And like we're just going to like move around the house and you're not going to say hi to anybody and nobody's going to say hi to you.
Meg:Like that's just the way it is Yeah, But like.
Emily:instead of that, I fixated so hard on the obedience command of like. no, you stay on place. You go to place, you go to place, yeah, you stay there and you calm down and then you can come off And the concept behind that is great, like calm, calmness, like is what we're aiming for. Yes. However, the obsession with the obedience side of it has to be phased out Like and I think it needs to be phased out way quicker than most are.
Meg:I really like to be quite honest with you. I don't do duration place I strictly use That's interesting. I strictly use place as a not Yeah, i mean, yeah, it's like an activity Function. Yeah, like a thing like go to this thing, you know. So, like anytime I'm training something in like with a dog, i want to be able to train them the opposite, right. So if I'm like recalling a dog, i also want to be that, be able to send them away, and so I use place for owners as like send your dog to place, call them back, tell them to go down, tell them to sit, like this is an active training session, not so much of like duration, and we'll do a little bit of duration. But I have very low expectations for duration on place because what I have found is that people, like you said, will use it as a crutch and they will fixate on it.
Emily:That as an owner. They don't know when to phase it out.
Meg:Right.
Emily:As trainers, we can kind of read the situation.
Meg:Yeah, be like. Okay, now the dog seems ready, you can have a little more freedom. Yeah, exactly, well, the dog seems like like.
Emily:I don't know. You can read the dog, yeah, and as an owner, you don't know what you're looking for. Necessarily. I mean I'm not saying that owners are, you know, inept, but it's still like. It's very like nuanced You really have to be able to read your dog and like judge the situation and be like okay, we're ready to like migrate off of using the place caught as a crutch And now we're going to learn. You've learned how to be calm on the place caught when people are over. Now you need to learn how to like exist in the house when people come over. Yeah, because releasing you off the place caught when people are over is just breeding excitement.
Meg:It's creating too much anticipation, yeah. So I like stopped doing duration because of that. And also people would put their dogs on place and expect them to stay there forever and they would break it right, like that's a very normal thing, like your dog is going to try you, yeah, and so then we were creating the habit of your dogs like I'm going to get up and the owner's going to forget about me, so we're teaching the dog to literally break commands with you and to you know, like we're doing the opposite of what we want.
Emily:So, instead of just putting them in the crate and where they're not going to break that.
Meg:Yeah, and you don't have to worry about monitoring them, because, like, even I'll forget, like I'll put Lucy on place and I'll walk into the kitchen and then she just like Wanzer's in the kitchen and I'm like it's a goosey, and then I'm like, oh wait, oh my God, you were supposed to be on point, literally Sophie When I just open the dog scene inside.
Emily:she was on her place caught and I turned around and I was like, oh wait, you were supposed to be on place. What are you doing? Yeah?
Meg:Yeah. So I found that it was just like teaching our dogs to literally like Blow things off, yeah, blow things off, break commands. And I'm like let's not do this anymore. Test boundaries to let's just, yeah, exactly. Like let's just use the crate And that's I. like our goal is downtime, right. Like let's give our dogs that downtime and not even have to worry about like monitoring them or like constantly bringing them back a hundred percent And I think, um, i think the like again in.
Emily:in my opinion at least, the place has a function.
Meg:I also I'm gonna pop off. I think it's lazy dog training.
Emily:I would agree. I mean, I think I think it's used too much as a crutch. for sure, I would agree with that. I don't think it needs to be used as often.
Meg:Like it's like people will put a bunch of dogs on place and they're like look at all the dogs on place We're training. And it's like, yes, like you are, but also I think there's more valuable things that could be done. I was gonna say you know?
Emily:I would agree with that. A hundred percent is like place again has its function. It is can be a valuable tool to use, but it shouldn't be like the bread and butter And I'll be all what your, if your dog can't hold a three hour duration.
Meg:Like that's crazy, that's a lot I would. I don't know Like do you put her on place for three hours?
Emily:I used to do it, she can do it. That's wild She can do it for sure, she definitely can.
Meg:I don't think I can sit still for three hours, but also.
Emily:I with her have learned because she is so I don't want to say so prone. She is prone to more separation, anxiety but just like create anxiety. I've been actually. I actually like had Clay and Wensley help me with some stuff with her. She was going through some like it was very random. So I have obviously struggled with her with the crate at the very beginning And then during her teens she was like you know, her teeny, teeny phase, whatever.
Emily:She went through some some rebellious crate stuff. But we worked through that pretty easily in like a couple of weeks and she's been fine, totally fine. And then about a year ago she started getting like a little anxious in the crate. Just when I would close her in she'd like pants, a little better, whatever. And then it started to build and me, the stupid, stupid dog trainer, thinking that my dog is just, you know, trained and I can do whatever And my dog is not a living, breathing creature. I moved her crate from where it has been where it is right now into a room that she literally had like a room in my house but that I was changing into like a guest room and I wanted to be able to use the room that she was in as a dining room So I wanted to switch up like where she was, where she was staying, and I just moved her crate and was like she'll be fine, it's fine.
Emily:She's like two years old, two and a half.
Emily:Jokes on you. Literally. What the hell was I thinking That was traumatizing? It was she looked like a kicked puppy when you would like put her in there for bedtime, like she would slink like this with her head down and she would like snails pace, walk in. And then sometimes she'd like peek her head in and then like shoot backwards and like run away, like just the most dramatic reaction to moving her crate. Like it was, it was a thing. And so I was like damn okay, well, i'm a dog trainer, let's work, let's see what we can do here. And I tried everything dude, counter conditioning, i tried games in the crate room, i tried like back to puppy hood shit, like leaving some treats in the crate for her to find She never found them because she's not going to go in that room by herself.
Emily:You can bet that, just like chucking the crate like treats in all the things you could think of, like feeding only in the crate, meal times only in the crate, like all of the things I tried. And she was so bad by like I was like at my wit's end because it was literally like I had to drag her in there and I was like I am a trainer and I can't get my dog back in the crate. This is crazy. So I had like obviously moved it back because I was like this room is not it? Yeah, we're just going to have to work backwards and then forwards again. And I had talked to Wensley and I was like listen, asked my dog trainer. Friends, meg doesn't ever answer her phone. I can't ask her, but stop.
Meg:It's okay.
Emily:But I was like do you guys have any like pointers? and they literally were like Clayton was asleep when I asked her.
Meg:Very on brand. I was going to be like there's nothing.
Emily:But she was like, yeah, like he had to like work through some of this with Nikki, And you know this is what he did. Fine, What did he?
Emily:say It was just treating her crate as though it was placed. So she knows. Yes, well, nice, like a game, a game. Yeah. So putting her in there, not closing the door, and what I quickly learned was that that was fine It's. She had like a. It wasn't like barrier aggression but barrier avoidance, so like the closing of the crate door was what was triggering her. Yeah, so it was very much. so. Like the second my she would hear that clink of the metal, with me grabbing the latch. It was like a freaking trigger.
Emily:Yeah, so just working backwards and literally using it only as place and making sure that she was chill, like learning to settle. She knew to stay because obviously she's been trained for what place means. So I would tell her room, that's her, her kennel command. Yeah, and she would go in and I just wouldn't close the door. She'd try to step out and I just said, uh-uh, she would back in, and then I literally just left her there till she completely settled and slept. And then I tell her free and we just like wrapped that and I never used place. So that was a thing also is not using place at the same time. Yeah, just using her crate as place, and then I would do like a couple of sessions here and there of just like touching the crate, like sitting there with her food and working with her food, and like like touching the latch on the door and the actual door part of that.
Emily:And that had taken enough of the edge off to where she wasn't expecting to be like closed, in that she could work through that part, but like damn, that's crazy.
Meg:It was.
Emily:It was a wild. It was almost a year that I was battling this Whoa, but it like it went downhill. It wasn't like so bad from the beginning, but a trainer like I'm a dog trainer and this shit is happening to my personal dog Yeah, so like I feel for owners that are like battling this shit, but like that's why I feel like the place command it has its perks. Like with that, i probably wouldn't have been able to do that Have Sophie not known her place command, because it was like Like go here and stay here without barriers, exactly, exactly Yeah.
Emily:So that was super beneficial. So there are like there are benefits to all things in dog training, but all of it can be used as like, to to the extreme or to like the deficit of it, so it's like I don't know. It all depends on the dog quote. You know that whole that whole saying.
Emily:But like I feel like that's the thing with obedience too, like it depends on the dog for what they need. Yeah, and you really have to be able to like read the dog. So he is not a dog that I'm like I'm like not worried about her if she breaks I don't know. Like she's not a dog that I'm concerned about breaking commands, right. Like if she breaks her down, i can tell her no and she goes right back into it. She like she's not a dog that's going to like push those boundaries. Yeah, but if I had a super pushy dog, i would be focusing more on like You can't break the little things.
Meg:This is not exactly I've talked about that before of like if I get like really reactive dogs or like aggressive dogs yes, like I'm very strict with the little things, all that stuff. Right, you have to be strict with the little things. It's not about the obedience command, it's about like you can't break this, like you can't break what.
Emily:I ask of you Exactly. Yeah, i would agree for sure. But I think I think a lot of the obedience stuff just gets like I don't know. I'm like, i feel like I'm a happy medium. I've seen the huge benefits of like having obedience as you're in your toolbox, like with your dog, like Sophie. We had a dog charge us off leash the other day and Sophie was off leash and I was able to be like down and that way I could run interference and make sure that this lady with her freaking dog running down the actual street could get her dog back. Yeah, and it was like that in itself, being able to emergency down her in a stressful situation Great Yeah.
Emily:But like there's also benefits to like, i don't know, not focusing so heavily on the obedience stuff. Like I said, with the stuff with her being way over a routes she doesn't give a shit about dogs, really, she loves people. So teaching her how to be calm when people enter the house I mean, you saw her when she came over. She was not that bad, she's not bad. But like that has taken three years And I'm like hello Hello.
Meg:I'm going to do the opposite of all the dog trainer things, I say I'm going to get your dog pumped.
Emily:We're all liars and tell you guys to do shit, and then we do the exact opposite.
Meg:I know I'm the worst. I am too. It's OK. Ok, one thing that I did want to talk about is like your background in horse things, Because I just find this so interesting And I get a lot of questions from horse people are like what are the parallels between horse training and dog training?
Emily:Honestly, there's so much that now that I am a dog trainer like looking back, i've been horse back riding my whole life. So I started when I was about five or six And I rode heavily and competitively through high school. Once I went to college that was a little bit harder. But the family so I had a family that kind of like took me in as their own Basically and I rode a pony for them And then they had a ton of horses So then I just was able to keep riding And they moved to Virginia. So I actually moved in with them in Virginia to go to college And so when I went to college they lived not far, like they had a farm not far from where I was going to college. So I was still able to actively ride and stuff, which was really cool.
Emily:So I've been riding basically my whole life. Now that I'm an adult unfortunately adulting sucks Some of the stuff you do that you're super passionate about. It's harder to keep up with that, but I'm still able to, luckily, keep up somewhat, just not as much as I'd like to. But now that I'm a dog trainer it is wild the parallels of pressure on, pressure off, yielding to pressure, all that stuff. It's just so patterned similarly in the horse world versus dog training, obviously horseback riding you're on top of the animal.
Meg:It's a very different concept in that regard.
Emily:But I don't know, like leg yields or teaching a horse to yield to leg pressure. It's the same as using leash pressure with a dog. It's like you're teaching a horse to move away from your or move into I guess I should say your aid, so at that point it would be your leg. But that is so similar to how we teach. You're using a slip lead, you're teaching a dog. Ok, i'm putting pressure towards me, like you walk towards me with a horse. If I'm putting my left leg on you, i expect you to move your barrel or move your body into my right leg. So it's just such a game of pressure on, pressure off And that's such a. I feel like it's a.
Meg:I don't know, it's a very intuitive thing, right. Exactly That I feel like is very useful in dog training as well, and I think I train dogs very similarly Like I don't do. I don't do a lot of leash pops, mine is more so like pressure on, pressure off, kind of like slow pressure on, slow pressure off, and I do a lot of circles with the dogs and walking drills And, like I will, i do the walking drills for a long time, yeah, like until the dog is like really giving in to me and like understands, like OK, this is what we're doing. Like it gets a little bit boring. And I think it's kind of the same way with horses, right, like whenever you're like walking them in circles, like you want it to get a little bit boring.
Emily:Right The basics with horses. Honestly and I think that's also another parallel to like the dog world is people pushing horses too young, too fast, so like not focusing on the basics for long enough. It's a lot of what you see And like especially I come from like the hunter-jumper world, so that's more like the show side, like the, i do the hunters, not the jumpers, but I don't know That means literally nothing I was going to say.
Meg:you probably don't even know what that means.
Emily:So we're just going to circle back on that because that could be a whole another topic, but like it's more of like the upper level fancier. I mean I didn't ride these caliber horses but like like, for instance, the job I had I was working at like the A rated shows.
Emily:So I was down in Wellington at the Winter Equestrian Festival And it was like I mean, these horses are, you know, five, 600,000 a million dollars Like they're ridiculous, yeah, like ridiculously expensive horses And some of them are like sold at that price as like a four year old, like they're four Whoa, and horses live to be like, you know I mean they can live to be like fricking 40. But you know you're talking about a horse that lives a long time And some of these horses I feel like are just pushed so quickly because of their bloodlines, their potential Like and honestly, respectively, to like dog sports also, yeah, like paralleling from the pet stuff, but like dog sports too. I mean, i am not even remotely in the dog sports. I'm not going to pretend to understand, but from what I've seen, like I heard people talking about it's. You know, rushing a dog to get like their PDC or something like that, just because they are aged in and they can, yeah, like, doesn't mean that the dog is ready or should be pushed that hard Right, and just because that they're old enough and similar with horses, just because they're from a good bloodline and they can be sold for a shit ton of money, doesn't mean like you need to be pushing them to be doing so much so fast, because it's also detrimental to like their health too.
Emily:So it's like a tenfold thing. But when you parallel it to dog training, it's so much of the same stuff It's it's like literally pressure on, pressure off. That is the crux of dog training and horse training. Yeah, the basics of it.
Meg:Yeah, i have some horse experience. I've never been like that big into horses. Um, they've always kind of sketched me up a little bit. I'm like I don't really trust you. But I also like I had friends who had horses and these horses were just like if they could give us the middle finger, they would. We would like ride them like bear back and like the pasture and they would run under low trees and shit You know like try to knock you off.
Meg:Yeah, and you're like laying on the back of this horse, like well, oh, we don't fall off. So like that's my experience with horses. But I always feel, like you know, when I talk to people who have experience with horses or even other animals, like they always make really good dog trainers, because there are just like so many parallels to being able to like intuitively read an animal and being able to like guide it and communicate it, communicate with it in a way that they understand. You know, like animals aren't walking around talking to each other. Right, exactly, we have to find a way to communicate with them in a way that they understand. And you know, if you watch a group of dogs or if you watch a group of horses, they're like moving into each other. You know it's like pressure spatial pressure.
Meg:They'll even like rub up against each other or, like with dogs, when you're walking like a group of dogs, they'll cross in front of each other. So, like that's something that I do on the walk to like teach the dog to walk into heel, i'm going to like cross in front of you using your left leg to kind of like kick into the or not kick into them but like step into them.
Emily:Yeah, And that's what step into their space to move them backwards, yeah.
Meg:And that's one thing that like they do as well. So that's kind of like I've mimicked my dog training off of that And I've honestly learned so much just from, like you know, growing up with animals and working with animals and working with like groups of dogs Like I don't I don't really talk too much about like the group stuff that I do with dogs just because, like I don't want people.
Emily:Like. You don't need that. Please don't try this at home.
Meg:Yeah, i know all of these dogs, like I have control over them, right, exactly, you know. So, like I, can socialize them in that way and they, like I, can sit and watch the dogs in my backyard literally all day long and I learned so much from them.
Emily:It's wild And like I don't know. I feel like. Also, one of the things when I was first starting out was like struggling to conceptualize that dogs are not robots. Like yeah, and I say that like I have this all over my website, like it is one of the like the cruxes of my business is like I don't want to turn your dog into a robot. I don't believe in turning dogs into like little obedient, you know nothings. No dog deserves that And that's not like a I don't know.
Emily:I struggled with that because I wanted so badly to have a quote unquote well trained dog that I was willing to like do anything to get that instead of just learning my dog as its own individual and learning how to work with that and not against it.
Emily:Yeah, and so I feel like that's another thing that I came across. A ton is just like we just want them to be able to like sit and, like you know, do what we say, and it's like yes, obviously, that's like the idea when it comes to training is like doing doing what you say and like being obedient. However, let's like dial that back and look at like the greater scope of things and that this dog is not the same as like the eight other Britney Spaniels you had growing up And like this one, for some reason, is like the worst and all the other ones you had were great and you don't understand why this one isn't good. And, like you know, you've owned this breed your whole life and you've never struggled with it And now, all of a sudden, like this one is bad and it's like this dog is an individual. Like you got luck if you had eight other dogs or seven other dogs, six other dogs that were great, of the same breed Yeah, you got lucky.
Meg:Yeah.
Emily:You got lucky, but like you got lucky. So if you are struggling with the dog, it's like this dog is going to teach you so much too.
Meg:Yeah.
Emily:The dog. I mean, it's great to have a dog. I also am looking at this from a trainer standpoint, So like owners might not have like having a dog that you're struggling with will teach you so much.
Meg:Oh yeah.
Emily:It's like it will teach you so much about yourself. I was such an impatient little bitch before I got Sophie. I was so aggravated by the littlest things And so like you get the dog you need, not the dog you want. Exactly, and that is for sure.
Meg:And that, honestly, is like such a good place to come to. you know, like I think so many owners will relate to that of like I want this perfectly well behaved dog. I think that is what I that's what I'm running across. of a lot now, i've seen dog training kind of like swing super far in the opposite direction, Whereas, like in the beginning, when I first started, i feel like people weren't doing enough and people didn't really know that much.
Emily:And now there's so much information, media and bro information.
Meg:Now it's getting crazy. People know so much that they're like Oh well, i'm doing this and this and this and this, and I'm like you're doing too much, you're doing too much.
Emily:I was going to say like you've been in the business long enough that you've seen the swing from like not enough to holy shit, dial it down. Like you are turning your dog. We like there was a dog that I had worked with in the past and his owner said like Oh yeah, like he knows, like all of his commands and he knows, like you know, all the stuff, which was great.
Emily:Like he came like any but he was neurotic, like yeah, she said like she would took him on like 10 mile. like walked him 10 miles a day.
Meg:I know that's literally every phone call that I have.
Emily:That is incredible, First of all, that you're doing that as a human being, but but your dog chill. Can't settle down, literally dog's brain is on acid. Yeah, squirrels on acid up there.
Meg:Yeah, like and this is like um, this is the biggest thing for me, because I think you know, when I talk about dog training, i don't talk about, i don't show obedience, i don't show active training sessions, because owners are really good at that. There's so many fucking videos out there of people are like here's how to teach place, here's how to teach sit, like it's teaching like teaching the things, but it's like passive stuff.
Meg:That's yes. That is where people struggle, like the crate training, the downtime, like teaching your dog to be neutral to stuff. Like that is where people need help. I, you know, i talk about like I don't really do obedience. I don't really do obedience because owners are good at obedience and every single phone call that I have goes the exact same way. They're like I have the best dog ever. Like he knows all of his commands, he knows sit, he knows stay, he knows come, he knows Paul. Like they run through all of the commands but he's super reactive And when somebody comes into my house he loses it, or they jump up on people or I can't take them anywhere And it's like, yeah, it's the past obedience. Obedience is just a tiny little piece of the puzzle. It's just a tiny little tool to help you.
Emily:I feel like it's also perceived as being like the whole puppy.
Meg:The end, all be all Yeah, the whole puzzle, yeah.
Emily:And it's like no, obedience is like okay, my dog is obedient, I don't understand what's going on now, But it's like no, that's, that's a piece and that's great, Like that's. Honestly, if the dog comes knowing like their commands, layering pressure over that is the best. So easy. It's so quick and easy. All you have to do is teach them like yep, this is how you turn pressure off, And nope, you have to do what I say and keep doing it Like it's not an option.
Meg:If you want to, and I think that's like where we come in is like helping people with that sort of stuff.
Emily:Part of that Like, the more I mean that's, i guess, active but teaching the more passive stuff of like you don't have to do all of the things Less is more All the things with your dog. And I think that I felt such overwhelm when I started with Sophia I was like where do I even start? Like I wanted to do all the things right at once, like everything, and it was so overwhelming It was. I was stressed. I mean you can ask why it like I will never get a puppy with her again.
Emily:She was a monster for the first six months of having Sophie. But I was cause, I was like no, you can't do that. Like, don't talk to her like that. No, no, no, no, no, like. I was so like obsessed with doing it.
Meg:A lot of my owners are like that And I'm like you need to take a deep breath.
Emily:I was going to say it's miserable and you're so worried.
Meg:Nothing is that serious And you're so worried.
Emily:And I had a virtual with one of my friends, taylor, and she had gotten a Rhodesian Ridge back puppy and she's doing all the right things and she was just worried about like her creating and stuff. And I was like easy fix, like just do this and stuff. She was like oh okay, and I was like you're doing great, you're doing a really good job. All of the things you're telling me are really good. I'm very impressed as a trainer that you're doing all these things on your end. She was like really. I was like just enjoy her. I wish I could go back and just enjoy Sophie being little again, because I hate. I was like I was a monster.
Emily:I was so focused on the obedience and, like the, the theory of it all, like of having a good train, a well trained dog that I didn't even enjoy her in the moment As a puppy. I really, truly didn't, and that is my like. One regret is not, she was a hellion for sure. That is so valuable. I mean, i'm so glad you could share that, but like for sure, i wish I could go back and just be like dude. The obedience will come.
Meg:Yeah, well, all happen, you can. Always I tell people that all the time I'm like look, enjoy them. You can teach obedience in a day, yes, a day. Like do not fixate on that, like let's work on crate training.
Emily:I was going to say the stuff that's going to chill in a crate.
Meg:No, then let's just do that.
Emily:Let's literally just do that And that is like I don't know, can your dog like, can you take your dog to like you know?
Meg:wherever and walk down the street and not get dragged, yeah.
Emily:But even with, just with puppies like take, just take your puppy to explore new places and go to a coffee shop.
Meg:Yeah, be in a crate Like that is.
Emily:Honestly, it's just less is more. Yes, exactly.
Meg:Especially with puppies, dude.
Emily:I know We could.
Meg:We could literally go on forever about this. Um okay, this was so fun. I know I enjoyed this.
Emily:See, i told you Headphone, land is nice.
Meg:Headphone.
Emily:Land is nice, like you, unless you, i've heard you say it so many times, but I was like what the hell is she talking about? Now that I have them on, i'm like man. I could live in here.
Meg:I know I'm like it's very quiet and peaceful and you can like hear your thoughts.
Emily:You know I have that and I told you I have like an inner monologue in my head 24 seven and I feel like the headphones just turn the silence in my I know I'm going to catch you Like you're going to have like a microphone and like a headphone set up and you're just going to be like sitting in your living room and watch TV with headphones and a microphone.
Meg:No, it's literally so much fun. Marcel and I were doing like ASMR. after the last podcast that we recorded, we were like eating Doritos in the microphone I was like swirling.
Emily:Yeah, It's swirling my drink.
Meg:It's so good, it's so nice. I love it. Okay, we have been talking forever, so I know it goes by fast. I told you it's fun, right? Yeah, see no no, no, I'm not really just a little alcohol to loosen her up a bit. Um, okay, so tell the people where to find you.
Emily:All right, So I have um an Instagram. It's the homegrown dog, Um, and then I also have a Facebook, Um same thing, the homegrown dog. And I am in Sarasota, Florida. If anybody is in need of any training around here, I do board and train programs and virtual sessions right now.
Meg:Yeah, and you're a wonderful trainer. Thank you, i am like so happy that you made it here. I know It's about damn time.
Emily:It didn't take long. I mean just a couple of years. No, you didn't.
Meg:I'm proud, um, yeah. So I always get a ton of people who reach out to me around this area, so I will definitely send them your way. You are an amazing person and trainer and I'm so happy that we got to sit down and do this, thank you. So thank you so much for joining me today. I'm definitely going to come back over and we're going to have to do this again because this was so much fun On your way back.
Emily:For sure You should do that Yeah.
Meg:Thank you all for being here and we will see you next week.