The Everyday Trainer Podcast
Handling Re-homing: Katie's Journey with Ghost
Imagine finally getting your dream dog, only for that dream to be rocked by the unexpected challenge of dealing with reactivity and aggression. That's exactly what happened to our guest and trainer Katie, and she's here to provide a first-hand account of the realities and unique trials that come with owning an aggressive and reactive dog. From finding a good breeder, to the surprises that unfurled when she brought her pup, Ghost, home, Katie's journey is an eye-opening exploration into a world many dog owners seldom experience.
Ghost's fearful and reactive nature presented Katie with a whole new world of canine behavior, forcing her to rethink traditional training methods. Through her story, we unravel the struggles of navigating a dog's fearfulness, the importance of creating a stable environment, and the critical role of setting boundaries. Katie's experiences highlights the complications that can happen when training a reactive dog and emphasize the need for patience, understanding, and respect for a dog's boundaries. This episode offers a profound look into the world of reactive and aggressive dogs, shedding light on the often misunderstood behaviors of what it means to own a behavioral dog.
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Imagine finally getting your dream dog, only for that dream to be rocked by the unexpected challenge of dealing with reactivity and aggression. That's exactly what happened to our guest and trainer Katie, and she's here to provide a first-hand account of the realities and unique trials that come with owning an aggressive and reactive dog. From finding a good breeder, to the surprises that unfurled when she brought her pup, Ghost, home, Katie's journey is an eye-opening exploration into a world many dog owners seldom experience.
Ghost's fearful and reactive nature presented Katie with a whole new world of canine behavior, forcing her to rethink traditional training methods. Through her story, we unravel the struggles of navigating a dog's fearfulness, the importance of creating a stable environment, and the critical role of setting boundaries. Katie's experiences highlights the complications that can happen when training a reactive dog and emphasize the need for patience, understanding, and respect for a dog's boundaries. This episode offers a profound look into the world of reactive and aggressive dogs, shedding light on the often misunderstood behaviors of what it means to own a behavioral dog.
Purchase Leashes: https://shop.theeverydaytrainer.com
Visit the Website: https://theeverydaytrainer.com
Join the Community: https://community.theeverydaytrainer.com
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theeverydaytrainer/
Hello and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. On today's episode, I'm joined by my trainers, katie and Marcella. Katie is here to talk about her journey as the owner of a reactive dog and how she had to re-home her dog. So this is a really good episode, especially if you have a reactive dog. You know somebody who has one, so you know the drill grab yourself a tasty drink and meet us back here. Welcome, hi.
Speaker 2:Are you excited? I am excited. I'm very nervous, though, too.
Speaker 1:It's okay. Everybody starts off nervous. A little disclaimer Marcella got sick and then got me sick, so our tasty drink of choice is water today and we're going to be sounding a little bit raspy on today's episode, but Katie is one of our newest trainers and she has a pretty cool story as far as, like her dog ownership journey goes. I think it's very relatable to so many people and it's something that's definitely not talked about enough. I'm going to go ahead and have you start by telling us a little bit about yourself and then I would love for you to talk about Ghost and how you got him and kind of your journey with him.
Speaker 2:Okay. So yeah, my name is Katie Zurich. I am 21 years old. I've lived in the Orlando area pretty much literally my entire life. My grandpa, my grandfather, was a military K9 trainer in South Korea.
Speaker 2:Oh I didn't know that, yeah, like a long time ago I don't even know what year, but definitely like wait before I was born, Okay. But so I've always had like my dad was like very strict with his dogs. When I was younger I always grew up with very like docile dogs, you know dogs that were always very friendly with like people and relatively other dogs you know what I mean. And it was like my dream to get a German Shepherd for like the longest time. Like I had been looking to them for like three plus years before I ever got Ghost.
Speaker 2:So when I first got him which I think is honestly kind of a big thing, especially when people think about like selecting a good breeder to me I didn't know about necessarily what it meant about getting a good breeder, because I always kind of thought that like pure bread is like good bread and that's really all that kind of goes into it. And I was like, oh, I'm not getting a dog for like 50 bucks, 100 bucks off a Craigslist, Like I'm getting a pure bread dog I paid like two grand for from a good breeder which like so I thought when did you get Ghost? I got Ghost from a breeder in Alabama. I'm not necessarily going to say their name or anything, Just to kind of put that out there. I don't think that Ghost's dad should have been bread Okay.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm going to say. Why not?
Speaker 2:Just from when I first met him, he was very reactive. He was in a. I met him I got Ghost when he was five or six months old. I had put a deposit down for him but I was living in Colorado at the time and I picked him up on my way home from Colorado. So he lived with the breeder in Alabama for the first five months and got barely any socialization. They lived in literally the middle of nowhere and like two hours from like the closest city and obviously, like here in Orlando, it's like a big city. I'm around people, 24, seven, like there's a lot of people all the time. People come in and out of the house, like versus them, like there's like one or two people there at all times and that's kind of it and like you don't ever see anyone ever. So I got him. He was like a very shy, like very shy, like not vocal dog, like just very like calm, and I was like great this is awesome, but anyways I met his.
Speaker 2:I met his parents, though, and they were like in like a little cage, like outside like a like a big, like fenced in area and the mom came up to me and the mom was like this, very like, like just super sweet, and the dad comes up and the mom comes up behind the dad and ghost, his dad like really tried to like attack the mom just for coming near me like on the cage, and I was like I was like yeah.
Speaker 2:And I asked him. I was like why'd he do that? And he was like oh, it's because like she's trying to get to him and like he wants to get to him. And I was like okay, and I was like which? Like I don't know, for some reason, like I was just so excited to get him that like to me there was just no red flags like available in my brain, you know right. Um, but yeah, everything went well with him.
Speaker 1:You also just like didn't know any better because you're just like a you know, a regular person, not a dog trainer, yeah, yeah, so you don't really know like what to look for.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I thought I lost the snake for a second. Oh God, okay.
Speaker 1:We got a new snake today. Yes, what's his name?
Speaker 2:Uh, I haven't thought of a name yet. It's apparently a girl, but I'm just going to go with the fact that it's a boy and I was thinking of naming it a newbis, because the other snake we have is aura. So I feel like aura and a newbis, like that's kind of cute sibling names, right? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Sure, sure, sure.
Speaker 3:That's what I thought but I don't know yet.
Speaker 1:So she's just chilling with a ball python on her.
Speaker 2:Yes, and he honestly loves me.
Speaker 1:I love the corn snake. I think that one's my, my vibes.
Speaker 2:That corn snake. I will lose that corn snake. Yeah, she just dips on me like just starts, like like just running away.
Speaker 1:Do we know for sure that?
Speaker 2:she's a girl, Um, I mean are we just labeling?
Speaker 1:Uh, I didn't name her. I didn't name her. Okay, yeah, does your friend know?
Speaker 3:Um no, that's a good question.
Speaker 2:So I've heard she also got him off of Craigslist like for free or something.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we don't know. It's fine, yeah, it's fine. Pronouns for snakes or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. No, it doesn't. They don't know. This snake is a boy in my head and that's all that matters, yeah.
Speaker 1:Exactly. So, anyways, we're skipping over red flags as far as, like breeders, go, where you got ghosts. So yeah, ghost is the dog that you used to have. How old was he when you got him?
Speaker 2:Um like five months old. He was born in March and I got him beginning of September.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you got him a little bit older, yeah, and he was living on a farm, and then you brought him to the city, yes, okay, which was probably not a great idea, to be honest, but yeah.
Speaker 2:And especially because that's like the biggest time for socialization for a dog that he like mixed out on right now, and like they maybe took him out in public like two times because they had to drive two hours just like socialize him. So it's like you know, yeah, so, yeah, I got him. Um, he was like super shy. I didn't really like anything. I did all the right things, you know, like I had do not pet patches for him. I was like really big on like I took him out in public with me, like every single day. I took him somewhere in the car to make sure he would get used to car rides. Like I was big on like not letting strangers pet him, like him walking next to me. Like I did like all the enrichment things, like I you know my dog, like he knew all the obedience things. He was great.
Speaker 2:And then, literally like maybe two weeks after I got him was like when the reactivity started, my AC went out at my apartment and I had to go stay with my parents for a week and my dad was out of town for like some sort of work trip and he came back and my dog went not so on him like was like barking all up in his face but was like scared at the same time.
Speaker 2:But every time he would like turn his back, he would go and follow him, yeah, and he just and it was really, really weird and then he did it. We had to stay there for like another week after that. So we were there for like almost two weeks and so he was reacting to myself at every single time I stepped out, would come into like the room or come back out, and I was like he was fine with my mom, me and my boyfriend at the time. That was like staying with my family. And I was like, okay, maybe it's just because, like you know, this new person's coming in that hasn't been staying there for a while. And then he reacted to my mom and knit my mom like the first time, like knit my mom in the butt.
Speaker 2:Oh shit, yeah, yeah. And after that my mom was terrified of him. My mom, like even to this day, like to the day I got rid of him, my mom like didn't want to get near him, like didn't want to do anything with him, because she actually got nipped by him twice but and she honestly didn't really do anything for a book, but yeah, it's kind of a weird situation, but yeah. So, yeah, she didn't really want to do anything to like get him comfortable with him, you know.
Speaker 2:I would be like oh you want to come, you know, maybe do like a little bit training with him. She'd be like no, I'm like understandably.
Speaker 1:I mean, you can't really blame her.
Speaker 2:I don't blame her at all, yeah it's fine, it's like understandable, yeah, but so yeah, that happened and I literally cried for three weeks about it like straight, pretty much every single day.
Speaker 1:I was so distraught about it, about him biting your mom.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, not even just like hurt him, cause it was like a nip.
Speaker 2:I was like mom, you can get over that, you know but, it was just about like the situation itself and the fact that he was reacting that, because then when I went back to my apartment, he reacted to another one of my roommates every single time you go in Hated that roommate for some reason. Okay, I had lived with three boys. He loved the other two boys, hated one of them for some reason, I don't know. He just like chose to not like him. And then, how old was he at this time? This was in October. So what is 10 minus three Seven? He was seven months. He was seven months at the time. And so then at that time I had contacted a trainer and, oh yeah, he also reacted to like the maintenance people coming in like went nuts, so on them. I had him in like a crate, like literally thought he was going to like kill them, like from in the crate, like it was very scary. It was a very deep, scary German shepherd bark. So at the time I'd contacted a trainer because I was like, okay, I definitely need help because what I'm doing is like obviously not working. And it was a very like compulsion based trainer. What they had me do is stick him on place and watch people walk in and just like blast him on an E-Caller every time he reacted. And I think you know, relatively that method might work for like a three year old dog, you know, but like a seven month old because, like, out of him that was like going through fear periods, you know, it wasn't just like it's something that he could grow out of by the time he was like two, three years old. You know, german shepherds take a long time to mature. So I'd contacted a trainer and that happens. We were doing that for like a month or two. Literally nothing helped.
Speaker 2:At the same time, like even and he was very weird it was all barriers to him. So, like, if I had my ex would have like a bunch of people over, he would have like five of his friends over and I could have, I could take ghost outside on a walk and all five of his friends could be sitting on the couch and I could have him walk in and he'd be fine. He would like go and sit on people's laps, whatever, and then as soon as someone got up from the couch, like you would like, you would be very scared. Yeah, that's kind of how it was, but it would be people walking in. So it was all barriers for him, same thing with the car, like if he could be in the car with literally anyone in the car, like all of my friends, like anyone, but no one could come in the car first, like I'd have to put someone in the car and then put him in there, not vice versa.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it was all like very big barrier reactivates he sounds very safe, very safe dog. Oh yeah, very safe. Like, oh my God, yeah, like distance me from a lot of people in my life too, just because, like I was just so distraught about everything that was happening, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was like I devoted my entire life to this dog for like months you know you were doing all the things you were doing.
Speaker 1:All the things that you know is like considered dog training, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:But he did get a lot better though. Like he got to a point where, like, he could be around people in the house and like people could play with him before he like wouldn't let anyone mess with him. Most of the time he like would react to every single person. Like, if I go through the Chick-fil-A drive-thru like where we live, the Chick-fil-A workers are like outside. You know he would like go nuts, so I'd have to like park and like go into Chick-fil-A.
Speaker 2:You know I couldn't like go through the drive-thru which is like, obviously not a big problem, but just to give you a listen.
Speaker 1:It's just the little things, like when you have a dog like that, it's literally the little things and you have to think about that 24, seven and that was one of the things that I noticed with you, like when you first came in is it's like okay, when you go to let a dog out, you're like make sure that all the doors are closed and make sure you know, like the little things that like not everybody thinks about because they've never been put in a situation where they have a dog like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, and like I definitely think about that stuff because of Gretchen Like you have to be mindful of, like who comes in the house if she's out, or like how you approach her, how you like sit in front of her crate or like if you have a treat pouch on, you know, and you sit down, like little things like that that, like the regular person does not think about Not at all, and especially if you're living with like roommates that makes it even harder, because it's not like you are just controlling your dog, you're controlling your roommates too.
Speaker 2:You have to. Yeah, and it was like horrible because everyone would complain that he's reacting. But then by the time, like, and then when I would bring him out for sessions, and everyone's complaining that I'm doing sessions when everyone's there and it's like, well, how do you expect me to get him better if I can't like train him around anyone? It's like you complain either way. You complain when he's reacting and then you complain that I'm trying to make it better and it's like, well, there's no what am I supposed to do?
Speaker 1:What am I supposed to do? Yeah, what would you like me to do here?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, but yeah, definitely like with Gretchen. It's like I just look out for all of the very tiny little things you know, like I'm very like aware of dog body language, now you know. And it's like like with Gretchen. It's like I let her out like almost every single day and I have zero problems with Gretchen. But it's also like I give her space. I don't like I'm not pushy with her, like I handle her in a way that like I know that she's not gonna react in, you know Right.
Speaker 1:And so like not everybody is like that. They're just like oh, this is a cute little dog that I wanna pet yeah, and I'm like, no, I don't even really wanna pet you. And I don't really want you in my space either.
Speaker 2:I just want you to coexist with me, and that's it, yeah.
Speaker 1:You had ghost in your apartment. You had roommates. You saw a trainer compulsion trainer not working. Yeah, what were your next steps?
Speaker 2:Next, I tried more positive reinforcement with everything.
Speaker 2:So basically I actually had talked to Wesley about this, like for the dogs, obviously. So basically, when I had people over, like the only time I like. So I actually moved into another apartment and I was like, okay, perfect, like he's, I could bring him over to other people's houses and he'd like be fine, Like I would watch him 24, seven, just in case. But he was like fine and like would ignore everyone. He was like super handler focused. I could take him on. Like he was like 95% off lease trained. I could take him off leash and like he wouldn't walk up to anyone, wouldn't walk up to any dogs, like he was great. But yeah, so I could bring him over to other people's houses. So as soon as I moved I was like, okay, perfect, I'm gonna boot camp the fuck out of this dog.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I'm like we're just gonna nip this in the butt. That didn't happen, by the way, I did boot camp him but it didn't get nipped. Okay. So I basically did where, like every single time, people would come over, you would come out and this would be like the most fun that you would have. I would have people like do training sessions with him and give him food and like he would do obedience for anyone if they had food, like he will go in between your legs, he'll heal to you, he'll like he'll do whatever for you, but as soon as like the food wasn't there, you would like walk into another room or like leave the group Like you. He would follow you and like I could recall him off of it. But if I didn't recall him, I didn't catch him like the split second, like you would probably get nipped you know, Okay, so that's how he was.
Speaker 2:So I did a lot of positive reinforcement. I just basically were like, every time people would come over, it would be like your time where you get to play with toys and you get a lot of food and a lot of fun time Like. I wanted him to associate people coming over Like it's going to be really fun for you, and it was, but it didn't fix like the problems that he had still yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:So then what? Oh God.
Speaker 2:I like I don't even know. So then that went on for how long did you? Practice that I'm trying to think of my timeline. When did I move? Okay, actually, that was only like two months, because then I broke up with my boyfriend at the time.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 2:And it's also really hard because every one of my roommates didn't agree with anything that I was doing with him, training wise. Like none of them like got any of it. None of my friends got any of it. It was like difficult, like when I have ghosts, like the problems with reactivity, like with his barriers and stuff. I had him in my back seat one time and it's like this is where like oh, I'm like he's getting a little bit better. And then my friends like oh, can I go say hi to him? And I'm like no, like don't, don't do that, you know.
Speaker 2:And they're like oh, like it's fine, like I'm a dog person, I fucking, that's like everyone's famous as well, I'm a dog person, I know.
Speaker 2:Dogs love me. Like, oh, you're just shut up, shut up, just stop. Yeah, never say it ever again. And she like opened the back door and was like hey, buddy and ghosts like pinned against the fucking back door. Oh my God, he's like what the fuck? Like he's terrified. You know, like he didn't really like he was scared of people, like he had never really been around a lot of people growing up, and then he started reacting and barking at her and then that's when it got worse in the car. So it was just like it's hard being around people that don't listen to you and like think that like they know more than you about dogs than like you do about your own dog.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that was like what I just dealt with with months on, months on, months on end where it's like I'm doing all the right things but it's like I can control the situations that I can put my dog in, but I can't control what everyone else does around me. Even when I tell them, like people are still gonna keep trying, do whatever they want.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that was like kind of the hardest part. It was like I was never around people who like understood and would like give him his own space. You know, it's like I would do things where people would sit on the couch and I would have him go up and take food and then recall him off of him, but then it's like they would take food and they would like look at him and start petting him and it's like, well, once my dog's giving you an inch, don't take a mile you know Exactly.
Speaker 2:And he's like he's like fine, you know, he likes me to pet him. And he's like lip licking and I'm like, oh yeah, no, you're like, no, you're about to get bit. Yeah, people like just no one understood it, you know, and like no one would listen to me advocating for my dog, and that was just really tough. So, yeah, I'd lived in that apartment for like two months. Then I had broke up with my ex and I had moved back in with my parents. That was my apartment, so I had just had him like staying there. I had them all staying there like while I moved out, and then I had my dog at my parents' house.
Speaker 2:So just a lot of like inconsistency in his life. You know, like the first five months he's living somewhere else. Then we have this other apartment we're living in for like four months, then my lease ended and then now we're in another apartment. Then I break up with the person that you knew from day one, that I from when I got you, and then now we're living with two other people and this is like when your reactivity first started. So that was difficult because he had still the barrier problems.
Speaker 2:I had his crate in my room when people would like walk by the door as my room, and he would go like nuts so I called them, you know, like. So people, like no one could ever take him out of the crate. It was like only me that could do that. So if I was working there was a time when I was working I would take him on a three to five mile hike every single day before I worked so that he could sit in the crate for like six or seven hours while I was working, just so that like he didn't have to get taken out. Like I would take him out at four in the morning sometimes, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And like he was great in public, like I took him everywhere with me, like he was a perfect dog in public. But yeah, so all these things were happening. My parents had told me, from the day that I moved in, that he had to be out of the house by June 1st basically was the day that they had given me, and I kind of thought they were bluffing, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was my fault. How'd that go? Yeah?
Speaker 3:No, yeah, no, I don't have a dog anymore.
Speaker 2:So but yeah, so that's what they had told me, that he had to be out of the house and I done all this work with him.
Speaker 2:Then that was like when I had met Marcella, marcella was like I was basically treating him as like a working dog, only a working dog out, because basically with him his drive for food, toys, whatever outweighed his uncomfortability with people, so he could be around everyone in drive, just like not really out of drive most of the time, so I was just taking him out to only do obedience with him. So then I did a lot of advanced obedience with him, like had him doing like Down Ends, emotions, like competition heels, like that's like what I just drilled him with for like two months. And then it was still not getting better because my parents, like, are also very social people. They have people over all the time and every time they would have people over they would ask me to have ghost data boarding facility, because the guest bedroom was right next to my bedroom so like anytime someone would get up to the bathroom he would go nuts in the crate, yeah, so it was like getting really annoying and like they were, like they didn't. We're not fond of it.
Speaker 2:And it also stressed him out a lot so he'd have like really bad diary in the crate all the time.
Speaker 1:Just German shepherd things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, literally.
Speaker 3:They're horrible. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Now I like Shepard, like the shepherd that we have here right now, like I love him now you know, oh yeah. I'm going to be really sad when he goes home.
Speaker 1:Max yes, I know he's so cute.
Speaker 2:I love him now.
Speaker 1:He's a good boy yeah.
Speaker 2:I was like sitting with him on the like his dog bed for like 30 minutes last night. He loves it. I know he's so sweet.
Speaker 1:OK, so looking back at kind of where you're at now, would you have done things differently with Ghost?
Speaker 2:Yes, 1,000%. I would have done things differently, but a lot of it was out of my control. Because it's like a lot of it had to do with, like other people not being on the same page with me, I wish that I had maybe done like a little bit more research, obviously on the reader, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's like kind of inevitable.
Speaker 2:I wish that I had done more research.
Speaker 2:I wish that from like day one I didn't really treat him as much like a house pet.
Speaker 2:I let him kind of do like a lot of whatever he wanted, like in the house, like he wasn't allowed in the kitchen and stuff.
Speaker 2:But that's like different rules, you know. But like when people would walk in, like he would be out with my roommates or whatever. So then, like whenever I would walk in, like he would greet me at the door and it's like with dogs like that that like have reactivity to people walking in, like I don't want them to greet me or anyone at the door, even if it's people that they like, because it's like now you have that impulse control of like it's just poor impulse control, like if you're allowed to greet everyone at the door and it's like now that there's this person that is walking in that you don't like it's like now you're not allowed to greet them and that's like kind of different for them. So I would just not let him greet anyone at the door ever. That's what I would have done differently and just like a lot more consistency, like with his training. Oh, I also forgot there was like three months where he was in PSA too. I left that part out.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, so we're doing biting things yeah we did do that.
Speaker 2:He had no drive for bite work, which you'd think that he would, since he bit three people. But yeah, you think yeah.
Speaker 3:That's what everyone says. Yeah, no, he didn't at all.
Speaker 2:He had great drive for cent work though. So he did like cent around the apartment and stuff. And even now, like he's up in New York and that's what they're doing with him is cent. Yeah. They were like, oh, I wouldn't cancel out bite work. And then I was like, yeah, but he has no drive for it. And then they get him. They're like, yeah, you're right, he has no drive for it.
Speaker 1:And I'm like yeah, and you're like yeah, that's what I said, yeah. Ok so ultimately you did end up having to like re-home him. Yeah, was there anything that was kind of like the final straw, or your parents were just like it's time?
Speaker 2:My parents were like it's time, you know, and then also the time like I was struggling with him like a lot, like there was just a lot of like inconsistency with me. Like the past, like this just whole year was like very inconsistent. You know, I had gone out of like a two year relationship I just now had, like this dog and back with my parents. Like just everything was just very different. Like I didn't live with my parents in like a long time, you know, since I was like 18, 19, something like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Just like a lot of like inconsistency and like I was like OK, like I had this whole plan for like what I was doing with my life, and it's like now that's all like out of the way, like I have no idea what.
Speaker 3:I'm doing with my life now.
Speaker 2:So it was just a lot of like inconsistency, a lot of like your dogs also obviously pick up on your own emotions, like me just at the time being like just very anxious, like also acting on impulse with everything Like it like rubbed off on my dog as well too.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And my parents are very much just like. You need to like focus on yourself and like not devote your entire life to like this dog and like you know, because it impacted everything that I did I didn't have people over. Like I didn't have anyone come into my room. Like I never had people sleep over. Like I could never have a guy over, Like it was just not a thing. Like if I ever did anything, like I'd have to pay a bunch of money for him to go stay at a boarding facility because my parents couldn't watch him because, a they don't know how to handle him and B they couldn't go in the room and take him out. Right, you know, Um and that's.
Speaker 1:That's like the most difficult thing about having dogs. Like that is like for myself. With Gretchen it's different because she lives in a dog trainer house, right, so like I know for the most part that she can be handled by other people. But you know, if I just lived in like a regular house and I had to say like hey, roommate, you know, take this dog out, like it would not go over very well?
Speaker 2:No at all.
Speaker 1:No, no, no. So that's like one of another. Like thing that I know so many people struggle with is, when you do have a dog like that, or even like Goldie's owners, you know, like when we were doing her go home, like they were like, do you guys do boarding? And I'm like, yeah, I will board your dog, you know. Like she can't go anywhere else.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no one else is going to be able to handle her Definitely bite someone. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Right and it's like let's avoid that at all costs. Like we will handle her. We trained her, you know she will board with us. But that's a big issue for people and that's literally the only reason why I even do boarding is because it's so difficult to find people who can like safely handle your dog, especially if you have a high bite risk dog. Yeah, so, like my friend Clayton, he had a dog. He had to put the dog down in the past couple years but super big bite risk had bitten him, you know, had bitten other people, and he had like luckily found a boarding facility that was like no contact, right. Like you just go like put the dog in the basically like cell right, and then there's a sliding door and they let the dog out into the yard and the dog comes back in and it's like no contact with people, right.
Speaker 2:That's great.
Speaker 1:But it's like that's in Texas. That would never happen in Orlando. They would be like that's jail, that's horrible, like you're abused, you know. So I think like talking about stuff like this is super important, because there are dogs that are like that, that are not safe, you know, and like a dog like that living in your household around people who don't know how to manage a dog like that, like it becomes very unsafe. Even like you talking about your friend who you're like you know she doesn't really understand dog body language, that will, and ended up getting her face Bit up.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, the girl with the lab.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a very real thing and, marcella, didn't you show me? Somebody showed me a video of us.
Speaker 3:I just showed you a video the other day of this dog, like this girl who had like this bully, and this dog like was already biting household members right, but it wasn't that bad, like cuz we loved him so much anyways and then her whole entire face got bit up, her lip had to be reconstructed, almost took her eye out and everything like that. And they're like, well, the dogs in quarantine for 10 days and we'll get it back like why do you want that dog?
Speaker 1:like that's an unsafe dog.
Speaker 3:Like you genuinely want that dog back after I tried to kill you right, yeah, and my friend.
Speaker 2:She had a well-bred lab they had as a puppy and this dog at five years old, literally she had to get 10 stitches in her face from them, like getting bit. So it's like at that point wasn't genetics, it was like their fault.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean like you can't love the genetics out of a dog either you know, yeah, you can't, you can't do that.
Speaker 3:It's just that's what people just don't want to talk about and like don't want to accept it. It's like, especially having like in your situation, you know, with ghosts and everything like not having a support system, is Just that's what just kind of like breaks everything you know yeah.
Speaker 1:so knowing what you know now and like working here, Do you think you would have been able to Like navigate his issues a little bit differently? Yes, like.
Speaker 2:I think that if you like lived here like he would be like perfect dog, you know yeah, yeah, it's also like I think you guys could very comfortably handle him, like even Marcella handled him, and like oh yeah and he was great with you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he was. I had zero issues with him at all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a big part of. Just handling well, a big part of like having a dog like that is having other people who have either been through what you've been through or have worked with other difficult dogs and can tell you like you know, Like when your dog nipped your mom and you cried about it for three weeks you know, Like I could have very easily, even like Katie, you know, this shit happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it happens, it happens all the time and right after that happened, everyone's like maybe you should re-home him, maybe you should be home. I'm like crying. I'm like I don't want to re-home him. I'm like I love him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, it's tough and you know, I kind of asked you before if this is something that you wanted to talk about, because I've had to kind of, you know, deal with the idea that I'm gonna have to figure out what to do with Gretchen. You know, like she's not a super safe dog and you have to say like, okay, what would happen if I re-home to this dog, like she would probably bite somebody? One, is it fair to put somebody in that situation where they're gonna get bit? And then two, is her lifestyle worth like or, yeah, like it's her life worth, her lifestyle of what she can do, you know, because it has to be so, so structured, and what is her quality of life?
Speaker 3:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. I think it's just so important to talk about, because one people are out here getting hurt by these dogs, because we're putting our emotions first. Mm-hmm, you know, there are people who are struggling with these dogs, thinking that they're the only ones who have dogs like these, when it's just not the case, because we all know that there's shitty breeders out there Mm-hmm, shitty, shitty breeders out there breeding Pretty you know big bitey dogs.
Speaker 1:Yeah and they just don't care and they're putting them out there. And I'm sure you know ghost is not the only one out of that litter who has issues.
Speaker 2:I had talked to the breeder about it so many times, they were like no, he's the only one. I've hadn't heard anything. And I was like sure yeah, I was like sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I've had issues with Nimbus snapping at my family members too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's something like I've. I mean like I haven't really talked about it like online, you know, but yeah, like that's absolutely happened. Like you snapped at my little brother like Multiple times. He's growled at me before and he's also like, yeah, like he's straight up, he's growled at me before for, like Resource guarding my mom like that was a huge thing when I was living with my parents, because Nimbus is like kind of like I wouldn't say like on the same like levels go like Nimbus is pretty neutral but like very inconsistent. His whole life, like the whole situation like I went through was like the whole time when he was a puppy and like the most essential time for him to be socialized properly and get worked and all this stuff and I just like wasn't training and like all this stuff right? So I was living with my parents like the whole time and, of course, like yes, my dogs are very cuddly dogs, my dogs are very social and like goofy and all these things, but at the end of the day, like they're still a melon wall.
Speaker 3:Yeah they're still a melon wall.
Speaker 1:Well you say you say like, oh, his life was like consistent. But I mean Minka has had like the cushiest life, yeah right, and she's still snapped at somebody at Nicole's house. Yeah you know, yeah, like I did everything I was supposed to do but, at the end of the day, like these dogs are meant to bite exactly.
Speaker 2:At the end of the day like these are predators that we have in our home, you know, and I think one of the biggest things is people put way too much Human emotions, way too much personification on animals, and that's like the biggest thing that people struggle with. You know, like oh, a thousand percent. The very first time I ever boarded ghost was like a week I was at a town for like a work trip that I was on for like the whole job I used to work at. And I remember saying to the lady I was like, oh, I wonder if he thinks I abandoned him. And she was like dogs, don't think like that. She was like, yeah, like one of the worst things you can do for your dog is put human emotions on them, and I think that's one thing that people struggle with a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like even with boarding trains, like when I did the facility, they're like does he miss me? I'm like no, they think you don't exist. Yeah, like literally out of sight, out of mind. Yeah, the dog will be uncomfortable for like a couple days Just because, like it's a new environment, and then after that, like they're running that shit you know like they think they live. They're like oh, I live here now, but yeah, like with nimbus, like every single, every single person that like does a boarding train.
Speaker 1:They're like oh my gosh, are they gonna forget me?
Speaker 3:and I'm like no no, are they gonna be sad? They don't miss you like yeah, are they gonna?
Speaker 1:be sad that I'm not there. No, you not eat that either.
Speaker 2:It's funny because even today Wesley was like um, I wonder if asher looks for me every time you guys go out. I was like she definitely doesn't.
Speaker 1:I was like it's always the guys.
Speaker 3:I know it's literally always the guys like they're soft as fuck.
Speaker 1:Like doing doing the go-home sessions and like the wives are like listen to the dog trainer and I'm like trying to like teach the husband the things. And I like with uh Slater's owner, he was like shocked that I was like just tossed the food in the crate. He's like you're not gonna put it in a bowl and. I was like no just like toss the food. He's like, she's like a prisoner.
Speaker 2:But it's like the dog. Like the dog cannot differentiate a difference.
Speaker 1:It's us like. We like bowls, you know, like dogs don't care.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they just want the food.
Speaker 3:doesn't matter, they've been rolling around in the back and everything yeah.
Speaker 2:Like dogs, literally will like eat their own shit, you know yeah they literally will.
Speaker 1:But I think that that sort of mentality puts people in danger. You know. So, like I think you you did the right thing Based on everything that you've kind of like talked about, like that dog should not be living in that household, yeah, you know, because it could have turned into something like really severe. But if you would have let your like emotions get the best of you, you would have been like I love this dog so much I would do whatever and then, like something traumatic happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, and that's like the one thing too is like, um, he like I re-homed him, but it wasn't that like, because I posted like a tick talk about it and I got like a bunch of hate about like re-homing him and stuff, and they're like, I'm sure, why would you get a dog? You?
Speaker 2:didn't have time for and I was like, no oh yeah, I know, but I was being so mean back to everyone in the comments. I was bullying people, but I was like I was like no, the issue is not that I didn't have time for him. It's not that I can't train him. The issue is just that like he does not fit my lifestyle, like I wanted a dog to do like sport and like fun, advanced obedience with which is great but like he just would better fit someone's lifestyle and he was a dog who was well-trained. He's a really fun dog. They really keep really well trained out in public. It's not like no one wanted him.
Speaker 1:You know, like.
Speaker 2:I had hundreds and hundreds of people message asking to like have him really, and I had to turn down a lot of people. Yeah, oh my god, because a lot of people. I'd sit on the phone with someone for like an hour just going over everything with them and then, like after that whole hour of me, explain the fact that he bit three people and like explaining all the issues. They're like this. They're like, oh god, this little dog.
Speaker 1:We're crate training a. We're crate training adobe men and he does this all day yeah. Not even, not even just in the crate, like Outside the crazy, outside in the living room, no matter where he is. He's just like screaming 24, seven. Yeah, is he?
Speaker 3:stop, he's, he's, he's probably gonna go for like another five minutes.
Speaker 1:Anyways, we're just gonna have to, you know, power through this. I'm gonna hear this all in the podcast.
Speaker 3:Oh, a thousand percent so you want to be a dog trainer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's funny, I feel like in all of the episodes.
Speaker 1:It's like us, like dragging at the dogs, dragging a dog into the other room, or like minka's always like rattling around in the crate.
Speaker 3:I know.
Speaker 2:She's so annoying every time. We're like eating a towel. Yeah, oh yeah, but she's so funny for that, yeah, so like a big thing.
Speaker 3:A big thing is so like, oh yeah, so I've had nitro right. Like nitro I honestly have never had an issue with like with other people. He's like never snapped at other people. Sura has snapped at my brother before she's. She's like a very sweet dog, she's very tolerant. She just was not like Her stomach touched by like other people.
Speaker 1:Sura scared me at first. Sura almost is intense.
Speaker 3:She fucking scares everybody.
Speaker 1:You're like bro.
Speaker 2:When I work Sura, I dodge her because she just will like. Come at you no like submarine dive into you and like the bruises that were on my leg, that one big one that was right here was from Sura.
Speaker 3:I left her alone for like one week and she's like black and blue all over her legs. Yes, I did a lot with them though too.
Speaker 2:But like, yeah, you did so much. I also bruised really easily, to be fair. But yeah, that bruise from Sura was black. That was the worst one. It was like it was like six by three, like like green and black.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So like the first time was like I worked so hard like all summer to get Sura to live in my house, like you have no idea how hard I try, because my parents are like hell no, that big, turning her into a house dog.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, she finally like she was the perfect house dog, like she was amazing house dog, you know, like she was finally like sleeping in the middle of the day like on the couch, like she was doing so, so, so well. There was one day like my brother, like she was just like laying down in the kitchen. Then, of course, like Colin came over and like, laid down behind her and like I was like I was like washing it, like she was okay, and then he was go pet her stomach, like, while he was like kissing her head and I was like don't do that. And then she snapped at him, didn't make contact, but it was definitely like a warning and I said, please do not touch her stomach.
Speaker 3:She does not like that. The only person who can touch her stomach is like literally me, like, and it took me like two years to do that, you know For her to like feel comfortable with me doing that. And so after that, a week later, same thing happened when I wasn't home. There's every time there has been an issue with my dogs I have not been home, you know. Oh.
Speaker 1:I mean same.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I didn't know, I get it, but like it's like like my family, you know, like they, like my dogs are super cuddly, they are super friendly. Like they get along amazing like in the house. Like they act like pets but, at the end of the day, like they're not pets. Like I've had so many issues so many times I have just cried myself to sleep over issues that like could have absolutely been prevented if people would just respect my rules and boundaries with my dogs. Yes, if Nimbus does not have the structure that he has, his behavior is so out of control Like he will start resource guarding people Like he'll. Like he started he spent two days with my parents like at their house and then he started resource guarding me Like against, like my boyfriend at the time.
Speaker 3:Like I was like where did that come from? He's never done that with me. Like he's always like resource guarded my mom. But, like you know, this is what I was like in the hospital for a few days and I came back my dog, all these behavior issues. I'm like what the heck happened to this? Like he did not have these issues before, like he's had these issues before, but like not with me, not at my apartment. Yeah, you know, could this been structures? Since day one? He does so much better with that.
Speaker 1:Well, I think most dogs like that. Yeah, do you know? And that's why, like, if you did have ghosts still and you had them here, it would probably be very, very different.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:And then he like he's growled at me before for getting near my mom, like he like would always spend time like standing over my mom, or like my mom is working all day at home right Like on her computer and he's laying right there at her feet in the office every single day when, like he should have been in the kennel, like certain things, like my parents did a good job of like letting them out when I was like out or at work and all these things, and like I'm very appreciative of that, but also like don't just let them out and do whatever the heck they want.
Speaker 3:You know, like there's one situation where I was at work and I and like my mom texted me saying that Nibbis bit Liam, and I was like he bit Liam, like what the heck? Like there wasn't like a puncture or anything like that, but he definitely snapped at Liam for like trying to hug my mom, your brother yes, my little brother. He was like he's 13. But there was a decent scratch on his arm, you know, and I was like I was in tears. I was like why the hell did this happen? Why is he out? Why was he even put in?
Speaker 1:this situation. That's the thing that sucks the most is like, when that shit happens, like it's not really the dog's fault.
Speaker 2:It's not Because it's like no.
Speaker 3:When we knew this. This has happened before, Exactly.
Speaker 1:It's not the dog's fault and it's like it sucks because that dog has just gotten that experience. Right so like when you said oh, the you know go. Snapped at your mom that first time. It's like, ah that, it's just such a slippery slope.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like once.
Speaker 3:It's like the same thing where, like once, a dog gets a life, but it's like, oh fuck you know, yeah, yeah, and it was just like I was like already upset because then Sarah wasn't living at my house because of the same situation, right, like I already lost one dog because of it. Now here goes the next one. Like I was, like I was like that just kind of like gave me like PTSD, like a flashback, and like it hurts so bad to like even see that text. You know, I got home and I'm like I just like basically screamed at them. You know like the kids are like they don't, like they don't understand like the extent of it. You know like they like it shouldn't even get to a situation to where he even put a mark on Liam. For you to finally understand like this is not OK.
Speaker 1:Right, you know, for you to find your and boundaries for you to finally understand.
Speaker 3:Like this should not have happened. This is the reason why this happened, right, and like I would. They're like no, no, no, like I get it. I'm like, look, if you let him out to go to the bathroom, he needs to go directly back in the crate. He cannot hang out with you guys if I am not home. Yeah Right, keep them in the fucking crate, and so, and then, like I, like you know, got my shit together. I needed to leave the house because, like I was losing my damn mind, right? So I put my dogs in the crate. I have a camera in my room. Put my dogs in the crate. I go to dinner. This place was 20 minutes away from my house. I get an alert on my phone from the camera in my room. Guess who's letting my dogs out? Liam, and I know Liam just didn't go. Let my dogs out. I know like they're like oh go, let Marcella's dogs out the potty when they do not need to go. They were just out 20 minutes ago.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's also. Another thing is people will be like I feel bad, I know that's right and it's like you're going to get bit.
Speaker 3:You're going to get bit. I feel bad if you get bit. But like you know, like don't yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Just to Don't mind just in tears downstairs explaining that I don't want my dog to be kicked out of this house because of a situation that he was put in Right, even though we know this happened right. And then I went upstairs, I put him in the crate. I said don't touch him. 20 minutes later, before I even get to the place, he's already out of the crate by the same person. He just bit Right. And I get home two hours later. Guess who greets me at the door? My fucking dog.
Speaker 1:And then they don't like, you know, I mean and that's a situation that I talked to so many people about, I think definitely more in like virtual sessions. People reach out to me and be like I'm super into the training, but my family's not, or my boyfriend's not or whoever isn't, and like I'm not getting anywhere, like I literally cannot get anywhere because you're just essentially trying to train the people in your household at that point.
Speaker 3:You know super, super tough, put a lock like a padlock on the crate.
Speaker 3:I'm not kidding, like I was literally about to be at that point. I was literally about to buy a padlock and put the padlock on the crate so they cannot take my dogs out Because I didn't. I don't have any other option for people to respect my rules and boundaries in the house. Like it's that essential, like one more bite could have been, like that could have been 10 times worse, you know, yeah, and it's even more difficult to if you just have like roommates you know, because it's not even like your family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just random strangers that you have to convince. How to you know, handle a dog?
Speaker 2:Yeah, like no one was on the same page as me ever with anything Like I would be, especially after he was having the reactivity issues. I'm like um, and like I just pointed already to people when I was like, do not like let him out of the crate if I'm not there. Like, if you have friends over, do not take him out of the crate if I am not there. And then like, then, like after they would be like, oh, we let him out. And I'm like why the fuck would you fucking do that, when I just gave you very clear instructions not to do that? And same thing how you were saying like, oh, when people are like, oh, I feel bad, like I feel bad for them.
Speaker 2:The same thing with my parents. Like my mom would be like I feel bad. He's in there making me and I'm like mom I literally hiked for fucking while with him and he had two training sessions today. Like I promise you he is fine. Like, as long as your dog is physically and mentally worked throughout the day, it's fine for them to do nothing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what's the alternative? Like him biting your mom? Yeah, like you want to say that again.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 2:And my mom would be like I'm like my mom would be like, oh, but I just want to snuggle with him on, like ouch. I'm like my dog doesn't even like to snuggle with me. I'm like he just wants to coexist in the same like five feet of sanity as me. You know, like he doesn't want. He's not like a very snuggly dog like that. You know, like most shepherds aren't really like that either. That's more of like, I think, malinoiser, like more cuddly than shepherds are. You know, and I'm like mom, I don't even stick my fucking face in my dog's face. You know, like people who were like kiss all that on their dog and like lay on them, and I'm like I don't even do that to my dog also because I don't want him to lick my face.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah and she boundaries boundaries with those dogs are just so important.
Speaker 2:And not even just boundaries, like your boundaries with like what you do to the dog, but what the dog you allow the dog to do to you. You know, it's like I'm not going to let people come into your space and like kiss on your face and like lay on top of you and like whatever, and so it's like I'm not going to let you do that to me. I don't, I'm not going to. I don't want you to be pushy with me, I don't want you to be like licking all over my face because, like I don't want people to do that to you.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, and I remember I had my ex I'm totally calling him on this, but I like whatever, we're here for it, yeah, but he used to like snuggle with ghosts in the morning and ghosts didn't really like him that much. You know which is like it's, yeah, none of us like red flag, red flag, yeah, ghosts really like him that much. But in the mornings and stuff he would like I would like us in the bed and he would come and like lay with us in the mornings and he I have I literally took a video of it once and my ex is like kind of like on top of him, like licking his face, like rubbing his belly, but like on top of him and ghosts is like his ears are pinned back, he's like lip licking. And then he starts licking my ex's face and I showed him the video after, like show him, because I said to him so many times I'm like, oh, stop doing that, he doesn't like it. He's like he loves it. He loves it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like no, he doesn't like it, you know. And then I go to show him this video. I'm like do you see all these like warning signs that he's giving you, that he's stressed out and he doesn't like this, you know?
Speaker 1:and it's like people literally don't understand and it's the same thing with Goldie's owners. Yeah, like.
Speaker 2:I literally we have this dog like on place in the go home session and I like walk to or one of the kids walked by the dog, okay, and tried to go up and pet her, and then the dogs started growling at the kid and the kid backed off and I showed them. I said, look, I'm going to take two steps forward towards your dog. The dog starts lip licking, ears pinned back, like avoiding eye contact with me. I'm like these are very clear signs of dog body language that your dog does like is uncomfortable, it doesn't want people near them because they think every single time someone's going to come near them, they're going to like smother them with all this like affection that they don't want.
Speaker 2:And I'm like these, all these signs were ignored for so long that now your dog is going to result in growling and biting, like because you didn't listen to them the first time. You know they're trying to communicate to you and tell you in so many ways and you're not listening in the only way that's working that you're listening to is the growling and biting. Yeah, so I was like, okay, well, maybe if I advocate for him and all these other scenarios like where I'm like not letting everyone else be super pushy with him because he was like a very insecure dog. He wouldn't necessarily stand up to himself when it came to like the other people around the house. You know like he would never have been my other roommates besides, like the one guy he didn't like, but he would never bite me my ex or like my ex's best friend that lived with us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I was like, well, if I can advocate for him in these situations that he's like uncomfortable, maybe that'll help, like in the other scenarios, you know. But yeah, people, just people don't get it, you know as shitty as the situation with ghost like was.
Speaker 1:It has given you that perspective, you know. So now you're working with Bobby, who has a reactive dog, you know, and you're able to relate to him on a level that you wouldn't have been able to relate to him on if you hadn't had ghost. You know, like having a dog like that gives you this extra perspective of like, hey for sure I relate to you and I can also see all the little things that you're doing. You know, like the importance of his body language and him tensing up and yeah because you experienced that with yourself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I had a situation where, so in situation where, like I knew my dog down to a T, I knew every little thing that would like set him off, you know.
Speaker 2:So I would try to avoid those things like purposely, where we were in the car, you know, putting someone else in the car before I put him in the car, like just things like that. You know that I knew it would set him off. And I had this one situation where I'd brought him out to a restaurant with me, super, super good, in public, like he will stay in a down, like he's really good, very neutral to everyone, like waiters can come by and step over him and like put stuff down and he's fine, like won't think to think two things of it. And I had a friend come over and he doesn't like like face on face, like conflict, like when the attention's on him. And I had a friend like come over on the side of the table and I was like oh, like can you walk around like my dogs here and like all of my friends, like knew that I was like into training.
Speaker 2:You know I had like a whole dog training tick to everyone knew not to pet my dog, you know, and he comes up and he's like and I was like, he was like, oh, I can't pet him, I can't say hi. And I was like, no, like you can't pet him. And I'm like freaking the fuck out right now because I'm like, oh shit, like my dog does not like this, like you know, and so I'm like really tense, like I can feel my heart is beating really fast, like I'm super anxious in the scenario and he's like oh, but like I'm a dog person, it's fine reaches his hand over my dog's head and is like leaning down, like making direct eye contact with him, and like I'm, sure
Speaker 2:yes, all the pressure, and I'm standing there and I'm like oh fuck, oh fuck, because I like no ghost is going to react and it's like I can control my dog. You know, like I know my dog is in control as long as you're listening to me, but it's like I have this friend who's not listening to me and then I have my dog, who's like I'm holding his leash and I'm like oh fuck. And then my dog like snaps at him, didn't bite him.
Speaker 2:You just like growled and like yeah and now I have to like correct him. I had to choke him out on a freaking prong collar and put him back into his down for him to stop, because we're out in the middle of public right and it's like, well, now my dog has to pay for it because you won't listen to me.
Speaker 2:And that's not fair to him, right, because he would have been completely fine if you had ignored him. You could stand right in front of him and just like ignore him. But when you're putting all this forward, pressure on him, when I told you twice not to do that, now my dog has to pay for it because I've been doing so long, I've been working so hard like advocate for him, and it's like he feels like he has to advocate for himself, because I'm trying to advocate for himself, for me, or I'm trying to advocate for him and you're not listening to me. Yeah, and that's the hardest part is like being around a bunch of people who like don't, don't get it and same thing with like people who have like dog friends and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Like when you first get a dog and you like want to have them all these, want to get them to have all these friends, and then you end up having a reactive dog because you don't have any friends who are like well-behaved on other dogs and like can't like just go on like a neutral walk and you don't have any people that can just like. You know it's very hard not having people who get it Exactly.
Speaker 3:Support system yeah, support system and that girl who came today.
Speaker 1:That was her issue is. She was like she has this little reactive dog right and she has done everything. She couldn't work through the reactivity and I brought out, like our dogs, my dogs put them on place right, like she was. Like I, my dog has never been in a situation where it's like next to another dog that's not reacting or like not being crazy and I'm like yeah, that's the value of like sending your dog away to trainers. It does wonders you know, really does.
Speaker 2:You know, and especially like to go back to Bobby, this dog that I'm training. His name is Jack. He's like people aggressive and like dog aggressive, like semi, and yeah, this dog had just bitten someone not too long ago, like, I'm say, a really bad bite. Yeah, and I got to see all the mistakes that I made with my dog because, like there would be situations where, like I knew my dog would react and I would literally have to sit there and like control my breathing to slower my heart rate, just so that, like, just so that, like he did not pick up on my language, like I would literally do that, would sit there and like have breathing exercises and like try to keep myself very calm, and then he wouldn't react. You know, yeah, but like just little things. And like tensing up on the leash when you think your dog's going to react and like we I took this dog out in public and not a single reaction. He's like my dog would have had three reactions by now and I literally told him.
Speaker 2:I said, because we were very caught training this dog, I said leave four feet on the leash, so you literally cannot tense up on the leash. And the dog did perfect. Yeah, perfect. And same thing with, like people walking into the house is like his huge trigger. So I said leave your dog on place. I said go sit on the other side of the room and I'm going to walk by and I'm going to put kibble down like on his place, not they, completely fine. I'm like when you're standing next to him and you're all anxious, it's like he's thinking it's us versus them. You know, because you're super anxious, it's going to make him anxious because he's a really insecure dog. Like, just go sit on the other side of the room. The dog did absolutely great today. Like we brought nitro on like a walk, the dog did so good. Only like one little tiny bark, that was it.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was really great, just because, like, this is the first time he's around like dogs that are like also very neutral, and he's like understands, like this is what he's supposed to be doing. Because now you understand the position of like he'll and it's like, no matter what's around you, the same rules apply, no matter what's going on you know, yeah, yeah. So I got to like look at all the little miss. I don't honestly make me really emotional. I was like, of course Meg would give me this dog to train.
Speaker 1:I'm very intentional with everything that.
Speaker 2:I know, but it don't sleep. You are freaking out.
Speaker 1:At first You're like I was too intense and I'm like I know and like really, I'm like, nah, I can handle this.
Speaker 2:I know I was a little nervous, but no, honestly, dogs being really good and I was like, not, he'll be fine.
Speaker 3:It was so good yeah, it was literally so good like yeah, and like even the bark that she mentioned, like I did not even hear the word. Yeah, it was like, it was just like a little booth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, like, yeah and I have videos of like the very first day that I walked in and that dog was like Scary. I was like oh shit, yeah, and then today, one little bark, one, two huffs. It was like like when. I walked in, you know yeah and then I had, you know, bobby, hold the dog like and do walking drills with him while I'm walking in two little huffs. Then I had me hold the dog and have Marcella walk in and I did the same thing with the dog. No reaction at all.
Speaker 1:No reaction.
Speaker 2:No reaction. Nice, yeah, so good. And Bobby, I could just see the relief on his face like he was so happy and I'm like, oh my god, like this is insane, because I remember like crying about my dog for weeks on end.
Speaker 1:Don't you wish somebody would have come in and done that with you?
Speaker 2:I wish, yeah because, instead of just shocking my dog, just stay on place and making him just stare at this trigger the entire time and, like he's stressed out and he's a seven month old puppy, yeah you know it's like that's fucking horrible and I think that, like I just wish I knew more at the time. But I also I think that, like now, I'm really grateful for it, because I think that, like I am a way better trainer because of it a thousand percent a thousand percent for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's valuable to be able to relate to people who are struggling with their dogs, because you know, like, as we talk about this, this is going to the, the audience that we're talking to and that shows up on social media, on like dog trainer social media, are those owners that are like doing all the things right, but those aren't the people that we're working with. Most of the time, it's people who have never had a dog like this before. They're not aware of, you know, dogs like this and they call a trainer. They call us because they're like, oh my God, like what do I do? You know it's not the people who are on the internet watching all of the videos and you know, like there. Don't you think that there's such a difference between like working with, like regular clients and then like online stuff, oh a thousand percent.
Speaker 3:It's completely different.
Speaker 2:The dog training world through tiktok is like Insane, so weird. It's like no, it's nothing.
Speaker 1:It's not real. It's not real.
Speaker 2:It's so weird, like to see that, because, like my whole thing started from tick-tock, like that's how, like I know you guys, that's why I met Marcella, like you know, like my running that dog training, tick-tock that I had, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's how I like saw her on tick-tock. She like recreated one of my videos of like the dog between the legs was like the Nerf gun to the house, type of thing. Yeah, that's literally what she posted.
Speaker 1:I think that's like the value of social media is obviously like connections, connections. Yeah, like, it's like I know what, but as far as, like information of dog training goes, and that's why I get fucking blasted.
Speaker 2:Tick-tock, it's just all the little like everyone hates you on tick-tock.
Speaker 1:This is just stuff that I say to owners every single day, but it's like owners that are coming to us. They're like I'm getting rid of this dog if we don't have solutions. You know, and it's like simple little things that I say on the internet that like tick-tock, just like comes for me for I'm like. This is not like we're.
Speaker 2:If you're decent dark trainer, this is what we're all doing, like we're all doing the same thing and people are just overwhelming their dogs with all this, like in rich man. Stupid, oh my god, that is what.
Speaker 1:I'm seeing more of now is like we're getting these like neurotic Drivey, very obedient Mm-hmm, but like can't sit still like.
Speaker 2:Kai and Max right now, like those have been like my two favorite dogs to train because, like I love. I love like training but I love proofing commands, like I love doing e-caller with like dogs that are just like super neurotic and like just making them like yeah, and like just proofing all of their commands. You know, like dogs you like can't hold it down to like save their life, you know right, I just. I like doing that, I think yeah, it's very fun.
Speaker 2:You know like you're doing all the right things. You're just missing that last step, yeah and that's how most people are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just like the girl who came today, I was like you did all the things, like your dog knows place, knows heal, like that dog whipped into a heel. I was like girl, look at this, look at this. Yeah, she's like I do the, I do the walking drills, like, oh, I know.
Speaker 1:I was like you're hard, like your timing is Amazing, but she was just missing that, like next step, which was proofing the commands holding the dog accountable. You know, like correcting the dog and stuff correcting the dog, for you know breaking things that we know the dog understands.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know that's one thing too. It was super soft on my dog because like everything on tiktok is like Don't correct your dog.
Speaker 1:Your dog should never be uncomfortable ever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's so annoying. But yeah, I was super soft. I mean, I was like semi strict on him, but I was definitely super, super soft on him and it's like Then he was pushy, you know, because he like, yeah, he's a little manipulator, yeah.
Speaker 3:That's also like I feel like with my training too, like I am very hard on a dog, but also like I don't think you should say you're hard on a dog, I'm not not like that, I know. I'm just telling you that, like I'm not hard on a dog like that to take it back.
Speaker 1:You're firm with the dogs like you. Don't let them like walk all over you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like, don't push me around. That's fucking annoying Right.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I'm like the same way with that. Yeah, I mean.
Speaker 1:I think we all are. We have to be yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm pretty fair with them, like definitely like don't be doing dumb shit right. Obviously, like I'm gonna hold you accountable, like I know you know this, like get it together, like figure it out, you know, but at the same time, like I'm still gonna like Reward you for all those like tiny little things and I feel like with my like training, like the trainer I learned from was pretty freaking compulsive, like with everything. He made sure I wasn't compulsive like they, like I gave a bit too much of a correction. He's like no, no, no, make sure, like that correct.
Speaker 3:Yeah right but if he held the leash it would have been something else, like right, way too strong, right.
Speaker 3:But. And then, of course, whenever I trained my dogs, like I was really really like I was firm, but like I was like my, I was pretty positive, like I really wasn't correcting them, you know. And then I worked at that facility and then I could feel myself like it was just like Compulsion, like hidden compulsion, you know, at the at the second facility that I worked at. So then I could feel myself like he's, like see myself like getting heavier handed and it just like was not a good feeling, like I did not like Doing that because it was like correcting a dog for things that like they didn't even know yet, like why are we doing this? Like this is so unfair, like I didn't like it. But then I'm getting yelled at for like luring and like Helping a dog through a situation yeah, you know, instead of pressuring them, you know, instead of pressuring them. But no, it's like. No, it's like, yeah, like correct the dog, you know, no, but we're not like we really like.
Speaker 1:Don't correct the dogs that much.
Speaker 3:No, really don't.
Speaker 2:Everything is very positive.
Speaker 3:It's just it's yeah, like it's very just like guiding the dog like the whole time. You know they're living their best lives. Yeah, they have so much fun here.
Speaker 1:Literally. You know, you don't, you said it perfectly you're like slaters, like camp counselor. Now, yeah, I graduated.
Speaker 2:I love it, like all the dogs that come here for training and stuff. It's like, by the time they leave, like they're so good. I love them, you know, like the last week I'm like oh, my god, I love you so much. And then whenever they come back here for boarding, they're literally camp counselors because they just like we give them more freedom, you know, like slaters, like free roam and around the house, and like she never really did that whenever she was here.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, like she just free roaming and we're like well, you do what you want, you know, because you already trained. You listen, like you'll recall like good decisions.
Speaker 3:You'll get in your crate on command Like you're good, you know it's funny, the Pomeranians are on point right now.
Speaker 1:It's so good, they're just like they're waiting, like I just opened their crates like to refill their water, and then they're just like sitting there, like really nice, you know what's Interesting that I was thinking about today is I was like, I feel like I was so overwhelmed, like a couple weeks ago, and it's because this round of boarding trains that we have all started the same week. Oh, I know yeah, all going home the same week, so now they're great.
Speaker 2:Yeah you know Like there's so many, so many like chaos.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so many chaotic dogs. But All right, I think we need to wrap it up there. I always forget to do my little like Announcements at the beginning. I should really do those at the beginning so that people actually listen to them.
Speaker 3:But I know everyone has to listen to the podcast to hear the announcement.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if you're listening to this the day it comes out, friday, august 4th Leashes are back in stock on our website. So that is at noon. Eastern Standard Time podcast comes out early in the morning, so if you're listening to it early and you want to buy leeches, leeches, oh, leashes, set an alarm on your phone. We also have some shirts in there. I know I got a lot of requests for our shirts as well, so you can buy our merch, our leashes. That will all be in the store on Friday, august 4th at noon. I Think that's all that I've got. You can follow Marcella and Katie. They finally made TET the everyday trainer. Instagram's TET dot.
Speaker 1:Marcella yes and ma are C e la TET dot Katie right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, it's, yeah, yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:Cool, I'm gonna need you to make some posts now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know I'm kind of bad at that honestly.
Speaker 1:That's okay. You need to be a social media girlie now that you're a dog trainer, so All right. Well, we'll wrap it up there. Thank you both so much for joining me, thank you for having us and thank you for sharing all the reactive dog owner things. I know that so many people relate to that and we'll definitely appreciate your story. And, and, as always, thank you so much for joining us this week and listening. If you like the podcast, please go and leave us a review. I would really appreciate it. We will see you next week.