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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
How Dog Culture Influences Reactivity: A chat with Clayton + Wensley of Austin Dog Culture
This week's episode marks the start of my road trip and of course, my first stop had to be in Austin to visit my good friends Clayton and Wensley of Austin Dog Culture- a dog training company based out of you guessed it, Austin Texas.
We chat all about how dog culture is reinforcing reactivity, ways that we as dog trainers work through it, and of course some fun stories along the way.
You know the drill, grab yourself a tasty drink and enjoy this week's episode- it's a fun one.
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Alrighty, are we ready? We're gonna talk about reactivity.
Speaker 2:Let's do it.
Speaker 1:Hello and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. On today's episode I'm joined by Clayton and Wensley of Austin Dog Culture. They are dog trainers here in Austin. I'm visiting them. Clayton has been on the podcast before. Everybody loves that episode. So this is our sequel to that and we're gonna talk all about reactivity, what we've kind of learned as pet dog trainers in the industry as far as solving reactivity goes, and so much more. So you know the drill grab yourself a tasty drink and meet us back here. Hello, clayton.
Speaker 3:That was really good.
Speaker 1:Thank you that?
Speaker 2:was really good.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I told you it's the most impressive part of the whole podcast experience. Do you like how we like? Go in on the beat too.
Speaker 3:I was just saying that the first time that I was on, we didn't do that, didn't do what we didn't do it. There wasn't like an intro.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I did the intro afterwards, but now that I have like a thing, yeah, we were just like on a zoom call. Yeah, was it a zoom call yeah, but now we're in person so we can use it on like the mixing board thing. Hello Wensley.
Speaker 2:Hello Meg, thanks for being here, thanks for having me in your own apartment. Yep in my living room.
Speaker 1:So, clayton, when did I have you on the podcast last?
Speaker 2:Like three years ago, because we just three years ago.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. So Clayton was one of my first guests on. I mean, I weird that was only a couple episodes deep and we talked a lot about the culture of dog training, which is why his business is called Austin dog culture. So this was three years ago and we were already kind of talking about the changes that we're seeing in the industry as far as, like pet ownership goes, like what people are doing and why we're seeing so many behavioral issues. And one of the biggest behavioral issues that I work with and my trainers work with and I know you guys work with also is reactivity. Like reactivity is one of those things that everybody thinks that their dog is reactive or, like a lot of people do, actually have reactive dogs. So reactivity, in my kind of definition and just to like keep it really simple, is basically when your dog has some sort of explosive reaction to some sort of trigger and there's typically a barrier involved. So the barrier is either like a leash or a door or a fence, something that creates that level of frustration.
Speaker 3:Right, I really feel like reactivity is is driving or fueling the pet dog industry right now. Anyways, like I feel like there's there's not a lot of things that will actually make people pick up the phone and research your trainer, fill out a contact form faster than reactivity, and I think it's because it's embarrassing for most people.
Speaker 1:I mean it's embarrassing and you can't like do anything with a reactive dog, like if your dog is actually like truly exploding at other dogs, like think about the lesson today and how many people had dogs. Like we were in this little apartment area and every single person outside had a dog and there was a lot of people outside. Like that was crazy, you know. So, like if you have a reactive dog, like your dog is like, let's say, they're reactive to other dogs, like your dog is probably exploding all the time, you know, and so then you get those people who are like well, I walk my dog at midnight, you know, when nobody else is outside, because I just can't deal with it.
Speaker 3:There's almost no way to if you have a reactive dog. To not look like an asshole, I got really feel like that's why so many people pick up the phone and call a trainer because, you know, like if you're, if you're out walking your dog and they have an explosion, it's like if you don't do anything you kind of look like an asshole, and if you're trying to correct the dog, you look like you get judged.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So it's kind of like I feel like there's no way to like walk a reactive dog without some point looking like an asshole, and somebody has that really embarrassing moment and that's the thing that makes them call a trainer, and so I really feel like that's driving the pet dog training industry right now. Is that one behavior?
Speaker 1:I also think a lot of people either they've done their research and they will label it reactivity or they're they truly to their core believe their dog is protecting them, like he's fine in the home, but he's very territorial and protective of me on walks, and they're just like misreading the situation to yeah, I get that and I also get like, oh, he's just excited, yeah, he's just, he just wants to say hi, and it's like a dog at the end of like a tight leash on a harness, like marking nonstop, and it's like no, like we cannot reinforce this behavior and that's, you know, like the dog that you're training. Now that's like that dog is.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't, I wouldn't call her react.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't call her reactive either. Right, she's just. She just gets like a bark. You know she's not like having this like big explosion, she's just like, like and like has to yell. That's kind of like crew, though, like if we see some someone, he just it's like emotion like, and then it's over yeah he knows like a really like quick recovery with it, and I think that's another kind of like indication of reactivity is like how quickly the dog recovers.
Speaker 3:Right, you know like that's always.
Speaker 1:the goal is, like, faster recovery times, even if you are struggling with reactivity. Okay, so I want to hear, like your take on it, why do you think so many dog owners are struggling with reactivity? Like I know the reasons why. I think people have reactive dogs and we saw it a lot today in the lesson that you had. But like, let's, let's talk about that.
Speaker 2:Where does one start?
Speaker 3:That's such a yeah, it's such a deep poll. Um, you know, I'll say that I think that really just my business name, austin dog culture, where that stems from, is, I think, also where reactivity stems from. So, like to me, you know, the reason it's called Austin dog culture is because I actually found myself constantly talking about the culture that we have surrounding dog ownership in this city and like, what does that culture look like? And it's to me it's it's super upside down. Like it's super upside down the way the, the things that that people expect of their dogs, also combined with the way that they live with their dogs, is a recipe for disaster. Like they have to be able to go to the dog park and be social and they have to tolerate all kinds of bullshit that's at the dog park and they also have to be able to be calm at the coffee shop and they have to be able to go to brunch, but they also want to stop and say hi to every dog that they see on the sidewalk.
Speaker 1:Like it's. That's the big thing, that, like I saw today, and even it's a lot like that. Okay, so he's training this little Malinois puppy and the dog is, she's perfect. She's very cute. She's just like a Malinois, but she has like that like every now and then. It's literally because every single dog would walk up, or every single owner would walk up and be like oh my gosh, is that this dog?
Speaker 1:And then like a lot of Clayton would be like yeah, and then they just let their dog drag over to see her. Like every single person. You know, like the the first day there was this little doxin that like ran out and I literally like kicked the dog away. But he, the guy, was like nice about it. He was like oh, I'm sorry, I know you guys are training. Like she just wanted to say hi to you know your dog because, like they know each other. So he's like oh, this is okay for like my dog to like run up and I did the like that also like the goalie thing that happened to.
Speaker 2:I know that's what I'm saying every time you're out with the dog. I also think to whether the reactivity is stemming from over excitement, or maybe like insecurity or fear. Either way, there's a complete like disregard for the owner. There's, they don't. There's no sort of like. Hey, I'm going to check in with my mom or dad first, like who?
Speaker 3:does that get into?
Speaker 2:that. I mean, I can't say that, but yeah, just say it.
Speaker 1:Oh you from like the dog, the dog doesn't respect. Yeah, there's no regard like for the decisions they make like the owner doesn't factor in like they just do Right, but like, why does the dog not respect the owner's decision making? Because, like, the owner just allows you know, every single dog to run up and like, greet their dog or super permissive with how they live right, it's just like the dog making decisions 24 seven Yep.
Speaker 3:So that's that to me, that's that's where the Austin dog culture came from.
Speaker 3:And that's to me also the same thing that causes reactivity is the, the, going back to the, the, that everything. What am I trying to say? Like all the little things that you do with the dog, every little interaction that you have throughout the day, I believe, is what creates the problems that we have. Like it's so easy to hyper focus on, like the behavior that is making us embarrassed of ourselves or the dog, as opposed to zooming way out and going like. Well, like the dog is kind of like not able to be created if it's home, or like while you're home, the dog can't be created.
Speaker 3:Right, you know, the dog is like busting out of the front door, the dog is like leaning into the leash constantly and and and and, you know, dragging the owner to the, to the, to the grass, to go to the bathroom or to go see, say hi to another dog. Like it's constantly happening throughout the day and and we are super permissive and the dog just it sees stuff and it says I want it and it moves towards it and there's never a consequence for just leaving the owner and moving towards things that it wants and then eventually, you know, through thousands of repetitions, there's an expectation now on the dog's end and when we can't meet that expectation, that's where the reactivity comes from. But again, it's just this super permissive lifestyle of just give, give, give, give, give, give, take the dog everywhere and then expect the dog to have perfect behavior in the presence of like other dogs, which is really just a trigger for excitement.
Speaker 3:Now, right that's where all that comes from.
Speaker 2:I think there's something to be said to about I mean, obviously people rescue dogs who are not puppies. But I think there's a lot to be said about the root of reactivity, where people think, you know they hear, socialize your puppy. So they take their puppy out and they, what do they do? They socialize it. They let it. Everybody say hi to it. Every dog come up to it and say hi.
Speaker 2:So when they're out, if it's reactivity stemming from over excitement, it's from this expectation, this anticipation that has basically just been groomed into the dog, Like when I'm out in public, like all of this is for me, Like I expect all of the attention, all the interaction, and it kind of starts you down a slippery slope instead of practicing being out in public like neutral, like just that's not for you, Not everybody, not every dog passing by is for you. And I think that's where owners try to do the right thing when they're researching and accidentally kind of veer left, if you will, and go down the rabbit hole and then kind of lay the foundation for a reactive dog and then, on top of everything Clayton said too, it just like all kind of bleeds together into creating this issue.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure, and I think it's just all of these little things that we're doing throughout the day that are leading to just I don't want to say like bad relationships with your dog, but the external environment is just like so rewarding right.
Speaker 3:Can I say something very controversial?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I should love it. Should we allow it?
Speaker 3:Can I just I always punish reactivity, like people are constantly talking about. Like what, how do you fix reactivity? And it's like a like it's not something that I even focus on when I'm out training. Like I rarely go out and go, we're going to do a reactivity session. Like I genuinely feel like it happens through every little interaction that I have throughout the day.
Speaker 3:And so, like the dog jumps on me, like I'm going to punish that. I don't want a dog jumping on me, I don't want it to learn that pushy behavior. If the dog tries to bolt out the door, I'm going to punish it. And and throughout the day I'm basically just showing the dog hey, like, you can't get away with this. Just you know, overly anxious, like over the top, just Moving towards everything 100 miles an hour, like that's not gonna fly. And so by the time that we're out and the dog actually does the behavior, I just again, just I'm like, no, you can't do that.
Speaker 3:And we just continue to move forward.
Speaker 3:Of course we're gonna work the dog through it, of course I'm gonna use food and like, of course you know if the behavior is is bad enough, we can even go into some counter conditioning, but like, honestly, I don't feel like like there's as many dogs and I'm just speaking of the dogs that we have here in Texas and it could be different if you're in New York or something like that but I don't think that we have a lot of dogs with like super deep-seated, emotionally charged levels of reactivity.
Speaker 3:I think it's very much just like dogs that like they don't get told no like ever. When someone is telling me they have a reactive dog, one of the first things that I that I asked people is I go what do you do when he does X, like the barking, when you growling people, like they just look at me like With a blank stare and I'm like, like what do you mean? And I'm like what do you do when he does that? And they, they people, never have an answer. They go, well, we like tell him no or like whatever.
Speaker 1:And I always say how do you tell your, how do you dog? Yeah, like, how do you tell your dog no?
Speaker 2:right.
Speaker 1:Like what? What is no follow-up with? Did you teach that and?
Speaker 3:so, and so I tell people. I go, okay, so like if you were to rob a bank and I were to go, megan, no, like dude, the next time you need money You're gonna rob a bank. And so and so, like to me like of course we want to change the way the dog feels about the trigger, like of course, like I want to use food and like reward the dog For making like good decisions. But I don't think that any of these behaviors are so like heavily Conditioned and like rooted emotional, like that that the dog is able to, because people are like, oh well, when the dog is reacting, he's like, you know, his brain is in a different, you know area, and I'm like though that is like not actually the case.
Speaker 1:And that's how you know people who are like Genuinely training dogs versus people who are just like training their own dog and are like this is what I've seen with this one Dog and it's like, yeah, maybe your dog has like some deep rooted Right like issues and fears and reactivity and blah, blah blah.
Speaker 1:But like 90% of the dog, the reactive dogs that we train are just dogs that have literally never been told no before. And so you teach them and you say punishment and people are gonna be like. But like, punishment is literally like a tink, like pop on the leash you know, like that little the little puppy. I mean, I don't want to say puppy, like what? Seven months old. She's seven months old, but we're talking about the little melon wall.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah like tiny little pop on the leash and she's like you know like, yeah, like. It's not like you're like cranking your dog to get them to stop. You know, and I've talked about how I solve reactivity and, like in previous episodes, I'm really big on like correcting the intention. So, like you know, when you see the dog really like fixating and loading on the trigger, give a pop on the leash. They're like oh my bad, bring your attention back over to me, add some movement.
Speaker 3:You know like, but if you don't disrupt, it, but if you don't change Every little interaction you have up leading to that moment. I think that's where, like, the difference between like like as a dog trainer you get that but as a pet person, people to understand and that's why I say like you can't to me, like I'm never, like we're gonna have a session, and where we work on reactivity.
Speaker 1:No, I think if that's just like part of training is like you can't be an asshole.
Speaker 2:Like I will say, I think that I will spend an ample amount of time focusing with clients on educating them on body language so they can learn to read their dog, and so the explosions happened, I'm like, well, now you're gonna have to use more forceful correction or punishment and when you could have just used Honestly, like a super small little, like think, you know, just to interrupt that before it got to that escalation and to.
Speaker 1:I think a big emphasis for me is on those little things, right? So like don't let your dog drag you up to other dogs, like anytime I have a reactive dog, I'm like, you know, walking with the owner and they're like, oh, this is, you know, jack, the dog that lives next door. He just wants to say hi and I'm like we're not doing this anymore. We're not like saying hi to other dogs anymore like you're struggling with reactivity, like you need to be neutral.
Speaker 1:We need to focus on being neutral and everybody wants to like, get hung up on, like oh, I want to create a positive association to like dog so I get them working for food. My order is like we need to teach the leash right, because you have no way to communicate with the dog unless you teach the leash. Teach the leash, stop the behavior. Get to neutral.
Speaker 1:Yeah and then we can start working the dog for food and like building up those new feelings around the triggers. But I will say, once you stop the behavior, that solves like 90% of people's problems, because most dogs have just never been told no, right, like they. Like you ask owners what do you do when your dog is being reactive? And what do they do? They stand back at the end of a tight leash with their dog on a harness and they're basically Reinforcing reactivity because, like it's a, it's a self reinforcing behavior. The dogs like get enjoyment out of it. That's what you're doing when you're treating like a sport dog.
Speaker 2:It's like the reverse engineering you were talking about earlier, right, so like with pet dogs that, like struggle with reactivity.
Speaker 1:It's the opposite of, you know, sport dogs, where we're literally training the dog to be reactive. I want them to. You know bark and.
Speaker 3:You know, it's funny so like things like if you, um, if you look at, uh, but we were watching videos of dinky doing bite work when I first got her zero control on the dog, right Like she was a green dog.
Speaker 3:She didn't ask from her face, like she's just super brand new. And if you look at the videos of her doing bite work, she is like at the end of the leash in a harness, like spinning, barking, lunging, just crazy, trying to get the, the sleeve out of will's hand. And and I sometimes, like when we're talking about like you know, like if we go to club and then on the drive home we're like having a discussion about how our night went, like I've told wensley multiple times like how I I miss some of the fire that she had, yeah, when she was younger, and a lot of the reason that fire is gone is because the obedience that I've had to put on her to get through the levels of psa and just by putting a little obedience on her has made it more difficult for me to get her agitated in the bite work, because I've put that obedience on her and it's not like I've used a ton of compulsion.
Speaker 3:It's just really trained her honestly, forced free like I've trained niki mostly for so okay, so so that's a, that's a good segue that we go into, because I've told everybody now publicly that, like I mostly punish, react. But okay, let's also talk about there and this is gonna piss people off because I'm gonna say it in the same podcast there are some dogs that I don't ever punish the reactivity and it's because, like that little dog that I'm training right now, I really don't punish her. No, because the food drive is there and the reactivity really To me isn't like it's just a, it's just a byproduct of like if you leave her.
Speaker 1:Unmanaged like pumped.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like she's just, she's just, it's just a little Malinwall, of course, like she just wants to to do things. And so she's a dog that, like you, could condition a Really powerful response to a clicker and every time she heard you know the jingle of another dog's, like call her. Or if she had a dog that come around the corner and she like locked eyes with them, you she's got enough food drive that you could click and she would just turn around and come off of that. And we already do that with just the yes command, like you've seen us do that. But like there's.
Speaker 3:There's also like those dogs where I think if you look at my training you go, wow, you're training kind of purely positive right now. But it's like because I can, this dog's got so much food motivation that I can do that and I have the skill set to do that. But the reason I say a lot of her activity or most reactivity I just punish it is because most of the dogs I work with Don't have that level of food drive because they're overfed, they've never worked for their food and they've never been told no, and Usually they in the beginning they won't take food at all and then I go hey, don't do that. They get their feelings her for like maybe like 30 seconds, and then now their arousal has actually gone down and they actually start taking food.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in the same time that's how it goes in the same vein of dogs have never been told. No, that dog Kota that I trained and we went over to do the evaluation these people were going to re-home that would be a good story for this podcast. So these people reached out just wanting professional help to kind of get an evaluation done on their dog. It was the German Shepherd to re-home the dealer, malin wall mix right.
Speaker 2:So a lot going on there and they'd worked with trainers previously in the past and they wanted to re-home the dog right. So we went over to do an evaluation, see what we could do to help them kind of get the dog into the home that fit and Honestly like it wasn't that bad, truly like we just corrected the dog one time for having a massive explosion.
Speaker 3:It was a big display.
Speaker 2:It was a big, big explosion.
Speaker 3:We took Darla in the backyard Just because I wanted to see how bad the director was because we're how did people don't know?
Speaker 2:because we're just gonna help them Re-home.
Speaker 3:The dog like this wasn't like training, like they just wanted us to evaluate to help them re-home, because it was gonna go to a Sport home, okay. And and so, like Wednesday said it's like a, it's like a duchy healer, something mix. And so we bring Darla, my coonhound, in the backyard, who like doesn't give a shit about nobody. And like we bring her in the backyard and this dog's like just Barking its head off and Darla just like looking at it like I'm trying to sniff, would you be quiet please? Like doesn't care.
Speaker 3:But this dog is reacting to a fairly neutral dog and at the time I think she was like on like a Martin Gale or like a flat call or something. And I did, I, I put a prong caller on her and I just said, hey, I'm gonna just correct her to see how she responds to a correction, because you know, part of it was like, if she's gonna be re-homed, I need to know, like, if I put a little bit of pressure on this dog, is this gonna, is this dog gonna redirect, or like Like you kind of need to know those things. Yes, so I'm like, hey, like I'm gonna punish her and see what she does. Dude, I punish, like she runs out to then a leash. I give her one little leash, jerk, it really wasn't a lot, she goes. And she turned around and came back and looked at me and like, just, just like, stared at me. Just, we started a program just a couple weeks later.
Speaker 2:And like I had to correct that dog, maybe once, twice and the rest of the time I was just eating. But no, what's crazy is is. I looked at the lady, I looked at the wife and I said, hey look.
Speaker 3:I was like I know you're just here for us to evaluate the dog so you can re-home it. I go, but I go if you want to keep your dog. Because she was crying when we were there Evaluating the dog. I was like, if you want to keep your dog, I was like this is super cool, this is super fixable. And you know, she just the people that she worked with before, just I guess no one had ever punished her. She had been told to like hold a treat above her shoulder when they walk past other dogs. But I cannot stress to everybody listening enough how, how little we actually corrected that dog. I think truly a handful of times, like in in over the course of. We only did a three-week program because it was that mile by the end of it.
Speaker 2:I had them walking with me and the domain on a Sunday so busy and this dog was Beautiful had like the tiniest little grumble and the did they end up keeping it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they got the dog. They still have the dog. They still have the dog. The review is on our website.
Speaker 3:But I'm telling you Meg.
Speaker 2:They were awesome clients.
Speaker 3:This dog took Like minimal correction.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And they were about to get rid of the love because no trainer had been.
Speaker 1:Like hey, that's that's what fucking sends me, is it's like it was crazy.
Speaker 1:I will be the Quote bad guy, right, the person who's like, just give your dog a quick pop and you can keep it. You can keep your dog. What's the other option? You get rid of your dog and it's probably not gonna make it. You know, like that's what I hate so much is like I get all I, you know I get attacked on the internet all the time for Just just anything I could like blank and like the force-free community comes for me, but I Am literally saving dogs. Okay, because, like, people are on the verge of getting rid of their dogs and I'm like, has anyone told you to tell your dog no, has it? Like, has anybody taught you how to have like a meaningful way to tell your dog that they can't do that behavior? And they're like no, like.
Speaker 1:Why you want to talk about ethics, it's more ethical to tell the dog?
Speaker 2:No one this is uproot its life and re-home.
Speaker 3:This is what's crazy, though. This is what's crazy if you think about it. If we did three weeks of training, okay, it was three week program, right yeah? If we did three weeks of training, that means and and you train that dog like at least like in over an hour a day, for sure, right yeah?
Speaker 2:you have to know how I was yeah, I took her with me a lot of places so?
Speaker 3:so let's say you did did 15 hours of training five days a week over three weeks. 15 hours of training minimum. I can't do math.
Speaker 2:Okay, quick on the flat.
Speaker 3:So so you maybe in that, in that 15 hours of training, let's say that dog got three corrections. Yeah and the other 15 hours of training. You probably were using a lot of reinforcement right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she didn't have an explosion and checked in, so it's boom.
Speaker 3:It's crazy because I can sit on this podcast and I can say that like, yeah, like we, we most always, almost always, punish reactivity. But I can also still say that, like, we have a a Reinforcement based training program because, yeah, 90% of that training was positive reinforcement, 98% of it was positive Reinforcement to the point that we now have that protocol that we do with almost all of our clients, where it's like stop feeding your dog Breakfast and dinner.
Speaker 2:It's like it's gonna have one portion.
Speaker 3:condense it, I will feed it yeah it's how it is that for the training right.
Speaker 1:Oh, that has been a battle, is a game changer.
Speaker 1:But, that has been like a battle for really. Yeah, I think the people who are like really struggling with their dog. They're like, yeah, like whatever we need to do. But sometimes I get the owners who are like I just want a well-trained dog and I'm like, okay, don't feed them. All of their food is gonna be used in training. Like I need that positive reinforcement. And then they give them like 17 meals a day and you know, it just is so hard to train without Just relying on like Totally you know, wednesday, what was that dog that we trained?
Speaker 3:the little black dog that was, that was reactive Koa, no oh.
Speaker 2:How long ago.
Speaker 3:What's the dog's name? Man? I'm trying to Sabrina in sky.
Speaker 2:Oh, sky Okay.
Speaker 3:Okay, I don't know why I can remember their name. So, meg, this dog sky, this, this girl she adopted the dog from the shelter, brought it home Was having some, some pretty bad reactivity, some dog reactivity on the leash, and we start the training. We, you know, it's like the first day. Dogs blowing up on the leash has zero food drive, it's like a Monday. And so I told her, I said okay, I said we're gonna pause the training and I said I need you to get her on a feeding schedule of, basically, we're gonna only feed her while we're out training and you're gonna do that Mm-hmm, and then next week we're gonna restart the training.
Speaker 3:She did exactly that. So we bring the dog out for training, we offer the dog the food. The dog doesn't take the food, then we go cool, we put it back in the bag. We finish up our walk, we go back inside and like that's it and that was the dog's opportunity to eat. And normally I'll give the dog two chances a day, like I'll say hey, do that in the morning. If the dog doesn't take any of their breakfast, like we'll try again at dinner time.
Speaker 2:Especially in the beginning, when they're figuring it out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we just do that. So she did that for a week. We come back in the training and the dog's food drive has gone from literally none to Through the roof, to the point where I no longer even have to correct this dog for activity, because every time it looked at a dog, you just go yes. She was just. She would just turn around and just throw her face into your palm and just try and like, just eat your fingers All yeah, and it was like I'm and I'm telling you the week prior, zero food drive.
Speaker 3:And at that point, like we did, we ended up doing some like very like, kind of like fancy competition style obedience, because the dog was just Super active little.
Speaker 2:I just want to work tell me, white dog with the blue eyes, kind of a similar.
Speaker 3:Yeah, once, once the food drive just gets there, it's, it's, it's so nice and that's why I say like, like I will sit here and say that I mostly Punish reactivity when it happens, because we're just gonna do that on the fly and then we're gonna keep training. But like there are definitely dogs when they have great food drive, that like yeah, like that food drive supersedes.
Speaker 2:That mean to react.
Speaker 3:You could almost say that that the training turns into like a purely positive program. But it isn't because, like I, am punishing the dog in other areas of life.
Speaker 1:But you're not having to. You know You're not having to correct for reactivity all the time because, like you're not giving the dog the opportunity.
Speaker 3:So much, we're just doing so much built up obedience. You've built up food drive like you've done the things yeah we're just playing, we're just like I've just taken the dog out and we're just playing you kind of set the tone in the first day or two.
Speaker 2:Right, it's like, hey, I don't take no shit right and the dogs like got it word, like nobody ever told me that before.
Speaker 3:Hey, we're not it's just basically hey, we're not doing that, but we can do all this other stuff, and I promise you it's also fun.
Speaker 2:You know who you should talk about Is Porter.
Speaker 3:Yeah, porter, what a good one Porter was, because that concept of like the heel. Yeah job?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I was a really difficult. Remember that little people that I was struggling with yeah. Oh my gosh that dog, oh my god.
Speaker 3:Well, so you know what's funny, you know he was bad to the point, you know I had to bring him home and it just he was just like one of those silent killers, like he would just be so quiet. And then just you know where, people say like he came out of nowhere, like surely, if you don't know what you're looking at, it looks like that for him. Yeah, it's not out of nowhere, but it looks like it. Yeah, and and dude, I'll never forget. That dog gave me the worst training session of my life, like like most embarrassing.
Speaker 3:Like I took him home I did like a week of him in oh, yeah, yeah I remember this dog and then I I did two weeks of boarding and training and, like I'm telling you, the dog was doing phenomenal, like we were at that bougie like domain area and I had him like doing downstays in the Nike store while, like I shopped around. We're like walking down like very busy, like areas where there's like bars and restaurants, like he was doing super well, so well that like I told the owner like hey, meat, this is where I've been training, super crowded place, this is where you should meet me so I can basically show off where he's at. Yeah, super proud of him. And like I'm telling you, like we've been there for five minutes, like just got out of the car, put him in a downstay, he's holding his downstay, me and the owners are talking and this little bitty shitsu thing walks by and he's like I'm gonna kill it, it's just be lines it for this dog.
Speaker 3:And I'm like, oh my god, like what the yeah? And so like I run over and like, literally I'm doing the, like this is the first time he's ever done this and for me it was. For me it was like, it was like, yes, like he was reactive before, but then that. But then you know we read, we got to a point where it was like he just didn't do that and you know he'd never lose no, I was like which he?
Speaker 2:then is that mine?
Speaker 3:But he never he'd never like broke a downstay to go like like attack a dog that was. I mean, this dog was literally like Like 50 yards away and when he got up to the dog he didn't even. It's like he didn't know what to do, like he was just like like kind of like barking and standing there and I just kind of grabbed him, was like dude, what are you fucking doing? But here's the thing. That's not even. That's not even the worst part. Then I was like okay, shake it off. I was like I don't know what that was. Let's start taking him for a walk. Let's go walk around the domain like I normally do. Again, this is where I've got him in downstays. While we're shopping and doing all kinds of stuff, this dog proceeds to attack people.
Speaker 1:Called me so Trouble, I'm gonna get in trouble for laughing at that. This dog starts.
Speaker 3:I remember you calling me after this. Yeah, he starts attacking people as we're walking down the sidewalk, mainly people with like bags and I'll never forget like this, like super old, like Chinese man, you know like, like a small Chinese person, like how they, you know, like a small, like this guy. Like the guy, like was like five foot like he was a very small man.
Speaker 3:We had to be like no, and he had to be like in his 60s. And this dog like, as we're walking by, I'm like of all people, like leave that little man alone. It's like holy shit. But anyways, this dog man proceeded to embarrass the shit out of me and I was like the only thing I could imagine was like, well, you guys are here now and he and he didn't do that.
Speaker 1:I. That's what. Do you remember what I said? That's the owners or it's, it's not for it for him. It's not necessarily like the owners, it's like the dog. The dog knows that, like you, won't correct.
Speaker 3:That's the relationship right, Right, right.
Speaker 1:Like you're not gonna correct the dog.
Speaker 3:Like Like I would right, yeah, and she and it, but you know it wasn't. It wasn't for lack of trying, like they really did try, I feel like. But now for everybody listening, this is, I can actually say this that dog was actually found on the streets, like Like when he was like maybe four months old, like he was found a little scrawny behind like a dumpster Like he really was, like from the streets I.
Speaker 3:Scrappy street dog and yeah, and you know like I ended up, I, I, I called the Danny woes, I and I was like hey, man.
Speaker 3:I was like I was, like I was, you know, I really needed some, like some affirmation from somebody that you know, that that I look up to, to say like you're doing the right thing, you know, and you know for anybody that cares. Kind of like what we ended up doing with that dog was just treating the heel like it was his job and if we put the leash on like it was time to work and there was no gray area and as long as you set the tone from the beginning in the walk, he was good. Right. If you didn't set that tone in the beginning, you know, I don't know it very much comes across genetic with him, because even with my own dogs I've had him out hiking and with my own dogs like no muzzle and he's like totally good. But then, you know, he went and stayed with his parents for a couple months and then he came back to me for boarding and just he was a little shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:He was kind of a little shit.
Speaker 1:Some dogs are just like pushy, like that, like they just have those really strong personalities.
Speaker 3:He has to live with somebody that's gonna.
Speaker 2:That's gonna vary from boundaries.
Speaker 3:Yes, stay on top of him and like, like dude, the thing is is, like Winsley knows, like I did so much free training for this dog because, like, like, I loved him, Like he's such a like he was a very they call them like the sloop, because he just when you pick him up, he would just kind of know how dogs just kind of like melt and blow over.
Speaker 3:Like this big, like, like he's a good size, like little like 45, 55 pound, little like pit and he would just like fall over in your arms and, like he's such a sweet dog, like he was really, I really liked him and and I ended up putting some pretty fancy obedience on him as well. But if you didn't stay on top of him, it was gonna like it was always a problem, like I could always tell.
Speaker 1:And then there was a little blue nose pit. That was like that. Like the owner lived in a house with a lot of other people and a lot of other dogs and there was constantly like dogs coming and going and a bunch of people and the dog was just like you know, like that bossy dog. That's like I gotta, I gotta manage everything.
Speaker 3:I gotta.
Speaker 1:I gotta manage this whole situation. And so I didn't have any issues with the dog when it came to me for a boarding train, like I really didn't see any of that. And then when I did the go home lesson and I did like a follow up with the owner and, like you can see, the dog really like pushes the owner and the owner was. She was like more soft spoken and like very mellow and this dog was like you know, all right, I'm, I'm doing this, so it's like I have to meet that dog with the same energy. Of course you, I will always be bossier than you. You know, that's kind of my thing, like I will literally always be bossier than you.
Speaker 1:It's literally my job as the dog trainer to be bossier than you Like, I can't be boss around by dogs.
Speaker 3:That makes me think of someone that I I, something that I heard from another trainer. Well, I won't mention on the podcast, but I will say that something that I've learned is a lot of times I believe that that dogs mistake kindness for weakness. Yeah, like, of course I can be sweet to my dog, like and this is the thing like people it's it's they're going to argue about, like the semantics, and they're going to say like, oh my God, I'm sweet to my dog all the time and he loves it. He doesn't think like I'm telling you, of course, like I love on my dog and I'm very kind to my dog, but what I'm talking about is like when people go to the shelter or they bring home a puppy and they don't like, the word no doesn't exist and not only does the word no not exist, it, the action of no doesn't exist.
Speaker 3:So, like, if I've got a little puppy and it, you know, crawls up my leg and is just chewing on me, like yeah, like I'm going to, I'm going to scruff him, I'm going to pick him up, I'm going to say what the fuck are you doing? And then I'm going to put him down and go, you know, and if he can't settle himself, I'll put him in the kennel, you know, and I'll try again later. But that's to me. I didn't actually say no, I showed no, right, I showed the dog no, don't do that. But so many of these, these dogs, I just feel like they've never, they've never experienced that.
Speaker 1:And that's why I talk about like correcting dogs so much is because people do a really good job of teaching things right, like to do to do yeah, the dogs know how to do all the things. They get the lick mats, they have the you know, they have place, they have obedience, they have a little ring bell on the door.
Speaker 1:They've got. They've got like more advanced obedience on their dogs, but their issue is the relationship that they have with their dogs, because people think that dog training is what your dog can do. But it's not like as far as behavioral mode goes. If your dog is doing a behavior that you don't like, like, you have to look at the relationship that you have with that dog. If you can't get your dog to like stop doing something, I would argue that they don't really respect you that much. And I kind of use the analogy of like do you ever remember having those substitute teachers? Of course that would come in and like you knew when that sub was there, like the class was going to be reckless because I was going to be a problem.
Speaker 2:I know, I know that it was you, of course you were.
Speaker 1:Of course, you were, you are definitely the poster child, and I was the one in the background like oh my God, oh my God.
Speaker 1:No, but like those, those subs, when they would come in and kids like you would be like, oh, this is my time, I'm going to bully this, this teacher, you know. And then, when, like, your regularist teacher is there because you have that relationship, because you have that respect, like the classroom doesn't act like that. And it's the same thing with dogs, and people who are struggling with their dogs are struggling with the relationship because they allow their dog to do essentially whatever they want. So that's why I talk so much about like it's okay to tell your dog no, because people are really good at teaching all the things, but they just need permission to be able to like communicate to their dog, like, hey, I don't like that you're doing that.
Speaker 3:So I just I just realized, like I forgot where I was going earlier when I was saying that they mistake the, the kindness for weakness.
Speaker 3:And to me it's like you know, like like you and I are friends, if, if literally any time I asked something of you, like I was just like Meg, like like come to come to Texas, and you just got on the plane and did it, and like I was like I need you to do X, y and Z, and you were just like, yeah, I'm going to do it At some point. Like when you have that friend that you just know is never going to say no, you have to almost check yourself and you're like am I taking advantage of this person? Because they, they always come through for me, they always like they just I know, if I say this is where I want to eat, then we're that's where we're going to eat. And like I feel like that's the relationship that happens with people and their dogs, where I say that they, they mistake kindness for weakness because it's like you just allow the dog to say I want that, I'm going to go get it.
Speaker 3:I want that I'm going to go get it, I want to do this, I'm going to do that, and no one ever says hey, don't, you know, don't do that. After a while the dog is just like acting like a complete you know idiot in front of you, because you never say no to anything and that level of permissiveness the dog is like I just get away with everything.
Speaker 2:Well, there's such opportunistic creatures. You give them the chance they're going to start calling the shots Like if nobody's telling them otherwise. Why wouldn't they?
Speaker 3:So you know what that? That's another good kind of segue. Something else that I want to talk about is leash walking, which is, I know, not a very exciting subject for a lot of people I mean in in regards to reactivity.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so like to me again, like this all ties together, it all ties together. Yeah, so the way, and I don't know why, I don't ever. Maybe I don't think that I'm special in the way that I think about this, but I don't ever hear anyone else talking about it. So if this is the way other people see it, then just Send me a message and let me know. I want to know. I want to know because the way I view leash walking is Is is I just teach my dogs that they're not allowed to leave me Like that?
Speaker 3:Is it like when I walk? You should also walk and you should be. And people are like what, how? How? You know how much does the dog have to look at you and how? And I'm just like, as long as they stop, when I stop, then that's fine and the way I do that is, I usually just start by Bringing the dog outside and I don't even.
Speaker 3:You know, people do like the about turns and inside turns and outside turns, and I don't do that usually. Now, to me, those, all those about turns, the 180s, the backing up, all that stuff, to me that's how you refine and reach and shape, how you want the heel to look. But to me, the general rule that I'm shooting for with like pet dogs is like just because we're standing here and Another dog walks by doesn't mean you're allowed to leave me to go to that dog Right. And I apply that to everything, whether it's a dog or a person or a bike, or going to the grass or Trying to get down the stairs or walking out of the front door. You, there's never a time in your life where you should be leaving me, unless I've looked at you and said like you can do.
Speaker 2:No, I think operating out of that principle is why neither of us actually teach it. For most clients we don't teach like a heel command on cue, because the clients will use it and abuse it and then it becomes.
Speaker 3:I don't like, like. I never, I never asked my like. Of course, in competition my dog has a competition and she can heal beautifully, but like, but like. We don't ever really do that walking down the street and it's just like as a rule of thumb. All of my dogs understand it like, hey, just because there's things on the shelves doesn't mean that you should go touch them and and and like. It's kind of a rule that you should just stay with me and they default to that and and. To me that actually goes back to reactivity, because what I'm doing is I'm shaping the attitude of the dog, which is a which is less of a self-service type attitude where, like, the dog is constantly looking to just Fulfill his own wants and needs and is not in desires. The dog is not allowed to just self-fulfill because it sees things, it just goes to them. The dog understands. I had to stay with dad and then I never end up with reactivity because my dogs aren't in that self-service mindset all the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's, it's really not a behavior to a degree also. Of course you can't like lunge at the end of the leash and bark and cause a fuss.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't focusing on staying with dad or mom right one thing that I will say that people Like people will hear this and then they'll think that they're doing it, but they're not is the dogs only know to stay next to the owner because they feel the pressure of the leash Like it's constantly tight.
Speaker 1:You mean right like that's their whole right, like people are like, well, I'm walking my dog at heel Right, but like what happens if you let go of that leash pressure? The dog keeps going forward because they're not actually paying attention to you, they're just paying attention to the feeling of that leash.
Speaker 3:They're taking it, let's so let's let's clarify and this is another big thing when do I punish the dog right when? When does the punishment happen and when does the reward happen? And I think, a big game changer for a lot of just pet dog owners that don't own or that don't train dogs. They I'm not punishing the dog when they get to the end of the leash. I'm actually looking for the moment that they check out. The exact moment that they check out and People don't understand is that the dog checks out when they're still next to you.
Speaker 3:They don't check out when they've hit the end of the leash you've you've lost, they're gone.
Speaker 3:You're way gone. And so that's why I say, like, a lot of times I don't actually start off doing the about turns, I just stand and I and and I just wait, and if the dog stays with me, then that's when I reward them. I wait for that voluntary check-in and that's what I reward, and then as soon as we start moving, if they move towards anything that's not me I'm gonna put pressure on that leash and bring them back to me. Yeah, and you can do that with a slip lead, you can do that with a prong collar, you can do that with a martin gill.
Speaker 3:But the thing is is you need to make sure that you're communicating with the dog, that it's the moment that you check out when all of this happens, right, and that's how you get a dog that will just like my dogs, just kind of walk with me, you know, and and If we always do that same little motion of like giving them a little leash pop and then resetting them, if my dogs Do get a little like excited or a little forward on the leash, if I just give them that little leash pop, they go. Oh yeah, that's right, my bad, and they just they just come back. You know it's like it's. We're never really like heel, you know oh, no, heal.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think like Lucy don't be a dumbass, yeah. Lucy and Minka are the only dogs of mine that actually know like a heel, you know, but most of it is just like come back, like stay. You know, if I ever have to like say something to them, it's like hey, like what are you doing?
Speaker 2:and they're like oh, yeah, yeah, you know it's funny Crew, as much of a hellion as he is for all of his antics, he's probably out of my three the most beautiful, reliable, like loosely shield. My sister is like I'd rather potty crew than any of the others and I'm like I'd rather you, not just in case, but like.
Speaker 3:Who is my?
Speaker 2:Malinois competition dog.
Speaker 1:He's a lot but his he has, he has to hill has to be managed through obedience and that's the other base for him it's safe right but that's the other thing that we should talk about is, like some dogs, you have to be so much more strict in the little things like Porter, right, yeah, a little.
Speaker 3:Porter and crew right.
Speaker 1:So like if I bro, you got to turn your phone off, if I have a dog, that's like super reactive, I'm super strict about the heel. Like I will give you a pop on the leash for checking out. As soon as you check out like Pop, there has to be some sort of consequence to you checking out, because I know you and I know what's coming next. Right, so like I'm not doing my due diligence if I don't stop you before you have that big explosive reaction you know the the big part that that you're that you're talking about.
Speaker 3:Like you know that you you stop them the moment that they kind of start you know going to that behavior. I think one thing that that a lot of pet clients don't understand is I will correct a dog for just being an idiot. Like, like, like the dog is like the dog is bouncing around like.
Speaker 3:Like if I and it's not on, here's the thing, I know it sounds so mean, but like if I get to a park and I pull the dog out of the car and the moment his feet hit the ground he's like that dog is zigzagging and spinning and like like. To me that's the same thing as like like if. If you lived in another country and you came over here and I brought you to like Like a, like a coffee shop.
Speaker 3:And you were just dancing and I would just, and I would have to get on like, if we go to like a fancy restaurant, that's not the vibe right. That's not that we don't do that here, Like yeah, we don't do that and people think that's so crazy. Like like. I like I'll have clients, I watch them. They get the dog out of the car and the dog just act like it and they're like correct it. I tell them I'm gonna correct him and they're like for what? And I'm like because he's being an idiot.
Speaker 2:I think these are also semantics, but you could talk about Interruption versus correction, like correction, I kind of imagine, as I'm correcting you because I want you to.
Speaker 3:I'm barely like a certain actually correct dogs. And that's, and that's a really good, that's a really good correction.
Speaker 1:I don't allow the behaviors to get to the point where I have to like, really correct a dog. I would say Recently I had that like black shepherd monster, like I had to give her was monster. Yeah, I had to give her a pretty firm like leash correction. But I mean other than that I can't even.
Speaker 3:I Don't know probably only had to do that One or two times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like, but that's what I'm saying is like people think that like punish is like this big traumatic thing For dogs, you know, it's literally like I tell my owners. It's like an elbow nudge, like if you're acting wild, and I'm like hey, but let's, let's chill out a little bit.
Speaker 3:That's not the vibe. That's not the vibe. Well, exactly what what you know Wednesday was saying was um, I Really I've used the word correction a lot on this podcast, but with my clients I really don't use that word very much because it is so open to interpretation, which everything is. I mean, at some point you're gonna have to, you know, put your hands on the leash and figure out you know exactly how, how to Get across to that animal. But I, I Really like the word interruption, because that is what I'm trying to do is.
Speaker 3:I'm simply my goal and that's what I tell my clients. I go, look, my goal, when the dog goes into that kind of, you know, crazy, erratic, you know, state of mind, I just want to interrupt that from continuing. And once I've interrupted that, we can go and do other things. Right, we can go and have a training session, we can go into the ball, we can go and, you know, do whatever we're gonna do. But I feel like if you say, hey, the goal is to interrupt them, then they can actually almost kind of have a goal, because if I say, correct the dog, they go, why I did, but he's still doing the behavior, then it's like, okay, well, did I correct or not? But if I say, did you interrupt the dog, then there's a measurable Sort of I think that makes sense in people's it's like you either like if he's still doing the behavior, then he hasn't, he hasn't been interrupted, right, he's still carrying on, right, right.
Speaker 3:So that is the way that I look at and I know that's the way you look at it to is like yes, sometimes like it takes more force to interrupt some dogs over others, but most of the time, because most dogs have never been interrupted during you know that behavior that when you do it doesn't take a lot, right, right, you just like hey, no, I'm not bad, you know it's funny.
Speaker 3:What's funny is I tell my clients like, look in the time that you work with me, I promise me or I promise you, I promise you you will hear me Talk to the dogs a lot and people. Some, you know some people are opposite. Like I put my headphones and I'll speak at all. Of course, when I'm doing competition, obedience, and I'm actually pretty quiet and I'm very strategic and what comes out of my mouth when I'm doing competition, but when I'm doing pet dogs, you are like the biggest baby talk.
Speaker 3:you're like yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:Maggie, that one time on FaceTime you were like do you all use that voice in front of your clients?
Speaker 1:No, you guys, you guys have like started that with me, like.
Speaker 3:But when I, but when I correct, I know code is like oh, you're talking about me when I correct it normally goes. It normally goes like I correct the dog and I look at the dog and I'm like, I'm like why did you? I'm like don't, don't do that.
Speaker 2:I started doing the. It's embarrassing I like film training sessions and then, when I look back at them, all Got a hit the end of the leash, you know. There's like trot in the long and I'm like, oh my god, what happened? I don't even say that with my own dogs, but it just is like a little noise effect that pairs with the leash.
Speaker 3:The dogs like, oh my god, what happened? Oh my god, that's literally like I will if, especially if it's like kind of a young dog, and he, like I said, I don't want the dog to learn to leave me. I want the dog to kind of stay with me by default. So if I, if the dog starts there, there will be times where I want the dog to explore and I'll let the dog know that that's what we're doing. But but yeah, I will let the dog go out. I give him a little correction. The dog turns around and looks at me and I go, oh my god, what happened? What happened? Because it's like I truly pretend, like I don't know, and I start walking off and the dogs like, oh, and they just learned to stay with me it's like correction.
Speaker 1:It's like when a little kid falls, yeah, and they get up and you're like, oh my god.
Speaker 3:Yeah, what you do, buddy, like sorry about that, why don't you do that?
Speaker 2:Well, also I feel like having the baby boys for me kind of keeps the house keeps your blood pressure down.
Speaker 1:It's like a motion low. I need you to. Oh sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:I forgot we were doing a podcast of her back to the camera.
Speaker 1:by the end she's just wrapped up in the conversation.
Speaker 2:No, it makes me feel less emotional, like I'm operating out of a place of no emotion and just simply like doing what needs to be done. And having the little sing song like what happened, like, makes it really lighthearted and I don't say a lot. I get frustrated with it.
Speaker 1:I don't say a lot because the owner say so much and like my trainer say a lot and I want the dog to like be just like that tuned in to me, that I don't have to be like I don't know, but I say that. But if I have like puppies and shit, I'm like oh, that puppies.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I feel like we're like young dogs and at the beginning yeah, but if I'm doing like a behavioral mod dog like you're going to have to earn the baby.
Speaker 1:talk Me. Like I don't say I'm not going to be like the cutesy person until, like we, we establish our relationship.
Speaker 2:I agree with that 100 percent. That's how we were with Koa in the house. We didn't talk to him at all. We communicated with the leash until he opened up.
Speaker 3:This is the thing People, people that listen like to podcasts, right like this, and they and they, you know they're going to hear something and they're going to take it very specifically or they're going to take it their own way, and anybody that listens to this and actually understands dogs knows exactly everything they were talking about and can read between the lines and can understand. Only the people that that don't really know very well, very well, are the ones that take everything at face value and, and, and they just don't understand. Dog, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Anytime I get like I had like a few trainers reach out and like tell me, you know, whatever they'll go. I always thought the dogs or I never. And it's like that shows me that you have not been doing this very well, you don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you don't know because because you talk to the experienced people and they're like, yeah, like we're all doing the same thing, all of the people who are actually running dog training businesses, working with clients, not just like training their own dogs for the sake of like the Internet Like we're all doing the same thing. We're all mostly using positive reinforcement, getting dogs working for food and treats, and like interrupting the bull yeah.
Speaker 2:Like every every dog trainer, but able to like understand that there's no cookie cutter way to condition a off leash recall with the EECO, like there's so many there's a million different ways to do that dog, but like read the dog in front of you, we're all basically doing operating within the same framework.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to do some more shit. Yeah, we got to wrap this up, but just an hour before, I think so we videoed this and we got to talk about the band aids on my face.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, oh, my fault.
Speaker 1:It's Clayton fault, clayton's fault. Clayton, clayton fault, clayton fault Clayton.
Speaker 2:Clayton.
Speaker 1:Clayton yeah, so Clayton and I went to the skate park yesterday and there's a pump track and I really wanted to try the pump track, but I've never done any sort of skate park thing, I've only gone down like hills.
Speaker 2:Like hills or like. What are we talking? I mean, I think like.
Speaker 3:There's some hills in her neighborhood that are. I mean they're, they're fun to go. She's a skater girl yeah, she's definitely got some speed before.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:She has.
Speaker 1:I, I should be better at skating. For how long I've done it, for you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean it's hard when you don't like, when you're not surrounded by a bunch of people that do it.
Speaker 1:Right. Anyways, we went to the skate park yesterday and I was doing great and I went down and Clayton was like I was like I'm scared Clayton, he's like go that mean coach, just go. Like what are you scared of?
Speaker 3:At one point she was like I was like I, she's like I need you to like hold my hand, and I was like OK, so I. So I held her hand and, as I was, like you're not going to let go right.
Speaker 2:She's like you know what I go.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, oh yeah, you can't trust him.
Speaker 2:Meg, you should know not to trust him with that shit. I know.
Speaker 3:Definitely let go, but.
Speaker 2:And then she face planted.
Speaker 3:No listen. She went down the ramp many times successfully.
Speaker 2:But then there was just one where it just it all went wrong. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I, you know, whenever I ran over there, I knew you were going to be bleeding. I knew you definitely need to.
Speaker 2:I saw you hit your face and I was like shit, I know that's going to be bloody. That was why, when I ran over, I ran over and I looked down at her and I was like oh, yeah, like you're definitely bleeding, and I was just like hang on a second, and I went.
Speaker 3:I went and got my runs back up the ramp. Here's the thing, here's the thing Truthfully, because, like I mean for anyone that doesn't know, I've been skating like like for 20 years or something like that, like very long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, clayton's really really good and made it look really easy, so here's the thing.
Speaker 3:So I've obviously eaten a lot of shit and fallen down like that many times as someone that has eaten shit. That many times I realized that, that it's like, if you're going to eat shit like that, then like I definitely want documentation, like that's to me, it's like I've I've already eaten shit, so nothing else matters other than documenting it.
Speaker 2:Clayton likes to share his epic fails on his old Instagram. He has a lot of he's like. Look at this one video of me breaking my hip and I'm like why did you post that?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I went down and face planted and busted my chin open. People think I'm really cool.
Speaker 3:Now they're like, oh my god, it's because I put cool music to it, I know 96 white bitter beans.
Speaker 1:It kind of looks like I have like a neck tattoo of all of the blood.
Speaker 2:But later, when we were in the sun at the lake, you were like I'm saying I don't feel good and I just thought you had the laceration on your chin.
Speaker 1:Oh no, I definitely bounced my head on the concrete pretty hard.
Speaker 2:You can have a concussion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, that's why I'll have a bandaid on my chin for the foreseeable future and maybe a maybe, a cool scar.
Speaker 2:At least a sick tan line if you keep those on.
Speaker 1:Oh god, all right, let's let the people know where to find you guys.
Speaker 3:I think I think mainly Instagram Austin dog culture on Instagram.
Speaker 2:I think it's like.
Speaker 3:Austin underscore dog, underscore culture but, if you just type in Austin dog culture, we come up, that's like our company. I have a personal one.
Speaker 1:That's just what's your personal, winsley, do you want to share?
Speaker 2:It's canine crew and co K number nine, but you could just type in Winsley, and I'm the only Winsley that I've. If anybody out there has ever met another Winsley, I'd like to know because I've never met another one, so you could type that in and You'll find her.
Speaker 1:I also include you guys in the show notes. All right, so my road trip continues. We're wrapping up this podcast and I'm loading up the dogs. We're hitting the road again in Austin today. Who knows where I'll be tonight? So sad you're leaving Sleeping in a man somewhere on the side of a road, probably All right. Guys, thank you so much for letting me crash on your couch and visit and shadow and do all the fun things and Thanks.
Speaker 2:It was a pleasure to have you. You're welcome back anytime, meg.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, and thank you for being on the podcast and, if you're listening, thanks for joining and we will see you next week.