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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
A Glimpse Into the Life of a Dog Training Influencer ft. Shane Murray
Ever wondered how a dog trainer became a TikTok sensation? Meet Shane Murray, the TikTok dog trainer who turned his journey with his reactive dog, Zeus, into a platform of learning for all. Shane's approach to training is all about understanding and customizing methods to suit individual dog's needs and abilities. He provides a unique perspective on training dogs, focusing on communication that is easy to comprehend, and sustainable for the client.
Shane's expertise doesn't stop there. He also delves into the controversial realm of e-collars, shedding light on their effective use in training. Shane believes in associating the collar with positive experiences, steering clear from the traditional notion of using it as a punishment tool. He gives practical advice on how to condition a dog to use an e-collar without any overstimulation and misuse.
But, there's more to Shane than dog training. He discusses the importance of mental health, particularly in men, comparing it to dog training. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining progress, be it in therapy or after a dog boarding train. Tune in to this episode as Shane Murray shares his incredible journey from training Zeus to becoming the TikTok dog trainer, his effective use of e-collars and his thoughts on men's mental health.
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Hello and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. On today's episode, I'm joined by the lovely Shane Murray. You know him, you love him. It's going to be a great episode. Let's do it. You know the drill Grab yourself a tasty drink and meet us back here. Yeah Right, wrong talking. See, it's kind of fun.
Speaker 2:That's cool. Did you like how it went in on the beat there? Yeah, for sure I like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've been practicing it that's good, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I can turn it on really well.
Speaker 2:That's a good grab right there Right away.
Speaker 1:that's a good grab, yeah, so welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me in your own home, so we're doing this episode in your living room.
Speaker 2:Y'all might have seen it on a live or two.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the internet loves you.
Speaker 2:I'd say some, yeah, some.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm just going to like put you a little bit on blast here. Let's do it. You're the TikTok dog trainer, uh-huh. Yeah, tell us what this world is like.
Speaker 2:So it's funny because by some people it's well respected and by some people it's the TikTok dog trainer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so some people don't take it too seriously. Mostly in the pet world, pretty well respected, but when it comes to like the working dog world, that's where I become the TikTok dog trainer no, really, uh-huh yeah, do they make fun of you? Uh, some of it is friendly. Yeah, some of it may be a little saltiness in there, but I get it. I get it.
Speaker 2:They're just jealous? Yeah, maybe, but it's a new generation thing, oh, yeah, for sure. It's definitely different, like, and I mean I even had my own skewed views when I started posting TikToks. Like even before I had TikTok, I was like man, tiktok, you know, that's pretty lame, I'm not really into that. But then I just started posting it and one thing led to another dude and it kind of blew up. A lot of appreciation is Zeus, because that's all I would put. I already had a gang of videos. Like, I had so many videos I just didn't ever post them.
Speaker 2:Of you training him? Uh-huh of me training him just for me to watch, and then I just started posting them and it just started going off.
Speaker 1:Wait, okay, so you were in the process of training him and you basically just recorded the whole thing and then eventually, you're like you know what, I'm going to start posting these.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, but post them consistently.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, like I would post one every now and again, I'm like man, this is whack, I'm going to get no love. And then I started posting them consistently and started getting a lot of good feedback from it. But a lot of this shit was just videos I already had.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that. Yeah, I thought you were like sharing your journey, training him on the internet.
Speaker 2:To an extent. But like by the time I started TikTok, he was fairly well trained, like he had a good set of obedience. His reactivity wasn't so bad anymore. So that was the start of it. But I did have a good amount of footage. I didn't have as much as I'd like. I wish I would have had the start. He's about to get up. They don't train his dogs, don't listen. Sometimes people down no place, go place, come on kid, make him a look bet. Yeah, it happens, everybody happens. But anyways, I mean he's the, he's the golden child he was. He's very likable.
Speaker 1:Is he what got you into dog training? Like one of those stories. He was a difficult dog.
Speaker 2:Definitely. Um, he was. He was fairly reactive to dogs. Big part of it is my fall. I took him to a lot of dog parks and he had a couple of bad experiences and then, given the breed, they did have their natural predisposition anyway, so I didn't really know how to handle it.
Speaker 1:I did shop around for some dog trainers, but wait, what were your like biggest things with him, like behavioral issues?
Speaker 2:Uh, he was just reactive to dogs and depending on the dog's response, it would either go from like friendly frustration, I want to go say hi, or if that dog kind of posted up a little bit, then he's like okay, I want to go fuck that dog up. And so it wasn't ever too intense. But he definitely there was some true intention behind it and even to this day he's not fixed. Like, if we're walking and a male dog walks up to him and postures up in front of them, there's a good chance there's going to be some problems. Okay, right, but for me that's acceptable.
Speaker 2:But like, if we're walking right by dogs, he's totally fine, dogs barking at him. But like, once they're like in his space, that's when it's kind of iffy with females Super good, super, super good. Like males, there's some where, if they don't give off, the same um, I don't want to say respect, but the same vibe is him where it's like hey, we're just passing through, you know, you leave me alone, I'll leave you alone. Then he gets a little bit um, I would even say insecure, and that's what makes him posture up a little bit. But there is intent behind it.
Speaker 1:He'll back it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, he'll back it up, like it's definitely rooted in security, but he's like but I'll fucking back it up.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of people have dogs that are like that Uh-huh.
Speaker 2:I think that the difference is sometimes the dogs won't back it up and then sometimes the dogs will back it up. Yeah, but I truly believe it's still deeply rooted in insecurity, in that context at least.
Speaker 1:But anyway. So here's why I always tell people like confident dogs don't have behavioral issues. No, not at all.
Speaker 2:Not for the most part and for the most part he's confident. But we've had so many run-ins with off leash dogs it's just almost conditioned to him or like once a dog's in his face. It's automatically not going to be a good scenario. But I have had off leash dogs run up to us and like leaves him alone, because like he'll posture up his hackles and go up. His tail goes up and he's like hey man, I'm ready, I'm ready. And if the dog's like whatever, leaves him alone, he's cool.
Speaker 1:I see it with eye contact a lot too Like people will be like my dog reacts to this dog and I have no idea why. And then you like see that dog and the dog is like uh-huh. It's like well, this dog is like staring very, very hard at your dog, so your dog wants to fight it Absolutely.
Speaker 2:You know, with people too. You know holding too much pressure, yeah, and I mean, at the end of the day, eye contact can be threatening.
Speaker 1:Right, that's what I'm saying, it's pressure.
Speaker 2:So that pressure, you know, sends the dog off, but still rooted in insecurity.
Speaker 1:Okay. So are there any things that you like, tried, like, did you go the like force free route at first? Or, you know, were there things that you tried before you were like, okay, I'm going to. You know, take on this like dog training stuff as a lifestyle?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so basically everything on YouTube, like I fucking YouTube university that shit. So everything on YouTube. I watch Zach George videos.
Speaker 2:I watch fucking Robert Cabral videos you know like old school stuff, like that was all what I seen. I tried a little bit of everything but I ended up thankfully he forgive me for a lot of this shit, but I had a prom call around him at like four months, right, so like some pet co-prong caller. So like I definitely did go the unfair route to start, like I didn't really know what I was doing. I was trying my best, like I was trying my best. I just didn't know exactly what I was doing. So I had a prom call on him, real young, got an E call on him real young, so I definitely put him through the ringer.
Speaker 2:But he fucking, he taught me so much, so much, so much. That's why, like, if you're trying to be a dog trainer, get a dog. Like you have to get your hands on a dog. Like, even if you don't have money for a mentorship and things like that, there's so many resources out there. But yeah, so I went through that and then around like six months, I took him to a or not he was probably like 10 months and I took him to a dog trainer and they flooded him, they took him through some kennels and he was like you just got to fucking tell him let's go.
Speaker 2:And then he was, he was struggling. And then after that I was like, okay, I it didn't feel right, I didn't. I thought that was too much from him. And so then after that I just started doing everything on my own and I worked on a lot of obedience, a lot of counter conditioning. We did a ton of shit. Some of the shit I wasn't even aware of what I was doing. I was working in the quadrants, I was doing the counter condition and I did. I wasn't even aware, really, what counter conditioning was, yeah, you know. So some of the shit, we just got lucky and we did the right stuff.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't think you just got lucky. You were just doing the things that were working.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's a way, better way to put it. For sure, that's a different way.
Speaker 1:You know and, honestly, like that's really how I learned and I think that's the best way to learn is to just get your hands on dogs and act within your knowledge base. You know, like, don't do anything that you can't like backup of like why you're doing it. Yeah, no, definitely.
Speaker 2:And that was my downfalls. I watched his YouTube videos and I would try to do that to him and he wouldn't respond the same way the dog on the video would respond. I'm like, what the fuck do I do now? Like, yeah, he's not doing what that dog did. So it was a lot of trial and error, like you said, whatever worked, that's what I kept on doing. He definitely he got put through the ringer, but he's come a long way. He's come a very long way and changed my life.
Speaker 2:You know, like once I started training him, people like I would train him at parks and outside of dog parks and things like that. And then people asked me for the longest if I was a dog trainer. I was always too scared to say, yeah, like, I, cause I only train him Right, training one dog does not know where equate to training a lot of dogs. And so I didn't have that confidence to be like you know what? Yeah, bring your dog down. So I started training for free, like if buddies had dogs, my parents, friends had dogs, and I'm like, yeah, I'll train him for free. And then once I got some kind of groove going there, some confidence, and, dude, I was doing sessions for 25 bucks an hour and I would fucking do everything I would do. And then I just started getting better and better and better.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Same.
Speaker 1:Uh huh, I mean you just, have to work a million, a million dogs and sometimes dog trainers will like say things and you're like wow, I can really tell that you have not worked that many dogs.
Speaker 2:Absolutely All the time, especially people who think things are real black and white. I'm like I could show you a dog that'll prove that to be wrong to you and if you don't put your hands on a lot of dogs. You're not. You're not going to see that. You're going to think it's all really black and white.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you kind of talked about how, like, you tried things on the internet with him and then they like wouldn't work or he wouldn't respond, how the dogs in the video did. Is that what kind of like inspired you to make content about it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, uh huh, because, um, little content tip for a lot of people, people didn't show troubleshooting in a lot of videos, so they didn't show like, okay, but if your dog does this instead, this is what you may have to do. Yeah Right, so like they showed, okay, this is what we do with fluffy and fluffy nail. That good boy, fluffy and that's it. And I'm like, okay, but now what if my fluffy don't do that? I don't have any other options. So I wanted to make content that was real easy for people to follow and really easy to apply, because once, once you confuse things and you make them too difficult, it's hard for people to apply it.
Speaker 1:Yes, you know, and I think that's something that a lot of dog trainers struggle with, is like communicating things in a simple way Because, like you said, you were doing all of the things. You were, like you know, counter conditioning and classically conditioning and using the four quadrants, and there's something to be said for recently being in the position where you're, like late struggling place. It's a valuable place to be, where you've, like recently struggled with your own dog and have been like searching for information, like I love talking to new dog trainers because they explain things in like very simple terms that I think a lot of you know our clients need to be explained things. Did that make sense? No, no, no, no for sure.
Speaker 2:For sure, because I talked to dog trainers differently and I talked to clients differently. Right Like with clients, I make it very easy to follow, very simple. I give them what they need. I don't go down and explain instrumental learning, pavlone and conditioning no, I don't explain that to most clients unless they ask if they're truly interested. But I give the client what they need to know and what's going to help them and then, once they show me they can handle that, I'll give them a little bit more. And then a little bit more, little by little bit.
Speaker 2:Of dog trainer, you know I'm going to talk to them a little bit differently because there are some basic things that they should already understand. But I think a lot of dog trainers talk to clients like dog trainers and I think it's counterproductive and I think sometimes, even when clients will ask questions, some dog trainers will have a chip on the show Like you're supposed to know? I was like no, they're not supposed to fucking know that. They're not supposed to know anything. You're supposed to teach them that in a way they could understand, and if you can't do that, that's a failure in your teaching.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think, like newer dog trainers have more recently been in the place where you're like I don't know anything. Like once you've been doing it for some time. You know simple things like crate training. You know like all dog trainers are using a crate. Yeah, like, let's, let's be real, like anybody that you know that it like has a dog training business, like they are using crates. But sometimes you'll talk to clients or like people on the internet and you're like this is my dog's crate. And they're like you monster, you horrible human being, and it's like that's just where they're at.
Speaker 2:And so that that's where your skill as a teacher comes in, right? So, like, say, it's a client like you have to learn how to explain that to a client in a way that they're going to understand why crate training is beneficial. Right, you can't be like, why wouldn't you want to create, train your dog, we all create. Like no, you got to fucking speak to him in a way that they're going to understand it and that they're not going to feel small, right?
Speaker 1:Yes, nobody wants to feel dumb. No, no, not at all, and I think that's why you're as popular as you are is because you're very good at explaining things in simple terms.
Speaker 2:I definitely take take some joy in that. I like, I like that part of the dog trainer. A lot of people, man, I don't like the people. No, I love teaching people. I absolutely love teaching people. I love thinking of new metaphors, new, and now I'll ask people what they do for work so I can apply what we're doing that makes some sense to them and something that they work. You know their daily job and I truly take joy in that. It's a challenge of its own. I mean, I hate to say it, guys, but most dogs are easy, most dogs are easy, and I know exactly what this dog needs. The challenge comes is how do I teach that to the client in a way that they're going to truly understand it? And those are things that I take pride in figuring that out in a way that's not going to make the client feel dumb. All the clients feel empowered, like, oh, that makes so much sense. Bam, now we're making progress, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and we were kind of talking earlier like I think that too is one of my strengths is like simplifying everything, but it's because of how I learned, like I didn't learn in like a traditional, like schooling sense of dog training, but I just learned very like hands on, what clients were doing and what they were capable of doing, what they were capable of understanding, what they were capable of maintaining, because I think that's a huge thing in dog training is like yes, you can be the most skilled dog trainer, but if you can't make something sustainable for somebody you know, like if you're like do three active training sessions a day and that person works like 12 hour days and like isn't the type of person to want to do like active training sessions, then it's like you're kind of setting them up to fail.
Speaker 1:So it's like our job as dog trainers to be like, okay, this is the type of person that you are, this is the type of dog that you have, this is like the best solution for you. So kind of like what we were talking about with like slip leads and prong colors and E colors. Like you like to use E colors, for you know pretty much any dog that you work with If the client wants it.
Speaker 2:yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and like for me it's more so of like, is the E color going to be something sustainable that that owner can use and keep up with? Because, like, if I hand you an E color and you don't feel comfortable using it or you are not the person who's going to be able to keep it charged and, like, use it consistently, then it's like almost doing more damage than good at that point. So I have to, you know, meet the owners where they're at and be like, okay, this is what you're capable of. So I'm going to meet you here, I'm going to give you a slip lead instead of a prong, or, you know, maybe like E color and slip lead instead of you know whatever, but just kind of like meeting people where they're at and I think, since you were so recently like in the position that so many owners are in, it makes you really relatable.
Speaker 2:And I think that's easily and that that's that's a bonus. You know, like I'm able to relate exactly to what they're going through and that helps me conversate and tell them the things that would have helped me in those situations. And I mean just like everything. So like along with like the E callers and the teaching, and like that's where I take pride in being able to teach the owner how to use the E car. And all the time we're like oh, I tried to eat color on my dog and if it fucked the dog up, you weren't taught it correctly, you didn't use it correctly and that's why it messed the dog up.
Speaker 1:And yeah, I take pride in that with literally anything. I think I think people mess up using food and training so much Like. I think people are much more likely to mess up rewarding the dog than they are for punishing their dog Honestly or like using the E color.
Speaker 2:And, to be fair, the fallout for each of those is way different. Right Fallout of doing the E color wrong is probably going to be a lot worse and yeah, but.
Speaker 1:I have, like I don't know, I've trained a lot of dogs and I have not really had that many dogs that like have had a fall out from an E color, like serious, you know if I do, it's because the owner used the E color on the dog. Oh, yeah, and that's still.
Speaker 2:That's the typical one for me, where they're like oh well, I did buy a shock collar one day and I use it on him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, do you get the like Amazon? The black one with the orange button, that's like the most popular one.
Speaker 2:I'm like let me see the E color fucking put on. I don't get.
Speaker 1:I don't get too much of that anymore. What I do get is the invisible fences.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'll put the E-caller on the dog and the dog just like shuts down and I'm like Do you guys have an invisible fence? And they're like, yeah, I don't like yeah. Because that's hard, because then you have to like recondition the E-caller. So the dog already has like this. You know, negative response to feeling any sort of like Stimulus right and you could do it to an extent.
Speaker 2:What it comes down to is like how important is it to really get this E-caller on the dog? You know, like Zeus Zeus during bite work shuts down with E-caller. So I don't use E-caller on because of the way I introduced it when he was younger. I just slapped it on him, started correcting him with it, so he's always had kind of a bad taste in his mouth with the E-caller. I could put the collar on him and he's still excited to go outside when he gets sees the collar Right because he knows it means outside. But when I start correcting him on it he definitely shuts down a bit and To an extent you could recondition that. But then for me, just like it's not that important to me, I don't use it that much on him, I don't feel like I really need to recondition it. So you got to really ask yourself like is it worth it?
Speaker 2:right, you know how do you condition E-caller or teach E-caller, I guess so Typically what I do is I first make the dog want to put the E-caller on. So I'll classically condition the collar, whether we're doing a free shaping or I'll. I'll make the collar really big and I'll just free shape the dog putting their head in the collar, or what I'll do is, if we don't have that much time you know, like you said, the client may not have that time to do a Bunch of free shaping sessions. I have the client put the E-caller on the dog before they do something exciting. So if the dog gets happy when they get the leash on, we put the E-caller on. And then we grab the dog's leash and we go Okay, dog gets excited for food, we put the E-caller on. Then we prep the dog's food and give them their food right.
Speaker 2:So I already I started off where the dog loves to put that fucking collar on and the dog is like this collar is awesome. And then I go down to what we call escape and avoidance Right and I start conditioning the collar. But that's what I use is escape and avoidance training. When I'm using it, explain a little bit of napopo stuff Nepo Po, nepo Po.
Speaker 1:There we go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so I'll use a little bit of that sometimes.
Speaker 1:No, don't throw out the dog.
Speaker 2:Trainer terms explain escape, avoidance and explain Nepo Po basically with escape and avoidance is the way we use the E-caller, is we teach the dog how to escape the stimulation and then we teach the dog how to avoid the stimulation. Right, so the escape like the bf skinners box, right, the rat is on a block. The block starts shocking.
Speaker 1:I can tell you, just got back from a seminar. I gotta use it while it's hot. Use it while it's hot. He's like. I got all this information that I want to share. I Know I'm a dumb it down.
Speaker 2:Dumb it down, all right so you want the dog wants to escape the stem, right. So like, if I'm recalling my dog, I'll apply the stem Recall and that stem stays until my dog shows commitment towards the recall behavior and it shuts it off. So the dog learns how to escape the stem. So the conditioning process Can be a little unfair. Right, we're not using high levels, but it is a little unfair, as in the point where we're we're stimming the dog right away, even when we're giving the command right, but that's part of the conditioning process.
Speaker 2:And then so once I get the escape part of it, that's when I create the avoidance, where now I want the dog to avoid the stem, so I'll recall the dog and then I'll stem the dog right after. And then once I do that next time I recall the dog, the dog is running to me really fast because they want to avoid that stem. So what a lot of people get stuck on. They get stuck on the escape part for too long. So they're continuously using low level stem to get the dog to do the behavior. And so what could happen with that is, if you do that too much, you could kind of build a callus to the low level stem.
Speaker 2:Right so you want to go to the avoidance, basically as soon as the dog's ready to go to the avoidance phase. So I'm not consistently using low level stem, low level stem, no, it should be A punishment right after the command if the command is not obeyed. And then that creates the avoidance where the dog's like, yeah, next time I hear that command I'm going to listen. Because I hate to tell you guys, even though your dog knows the command, there are times where they do not want to listen and then where they have another competing motivator and that's tend to be where punishment comes into play where the dog understands he brought in competing motivators. That was, that was basic, I mean come on, you know competing motivators.
Speaker 2:That was basic. Right, that was basic. When there's other, so like Zeus is the Zeus likes to sniff female scent, right, so like, if he's stuck on the grass and I recall him, he does not want to come to me, not one bit, you don't want to come to me. But through the conditioning he knows that there's a punishment if he does not come to me, and so that's what helps motivate him away from the smell to then come to me. And if I do my job right, I shouldn't have to punish him too many times for that. It should be one punishment and then after that he's on it. But this is where I think a lot of people stay in the low level though.
Speaker 2:Well, I'll just use low level and then bring him over low level stem. Good luck, you're going to be on that spot for a very long time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's where you kind of get into uh Ivan's, uh Take on e-color training. He's kind of like don't do the low level stuff yeah. I mean, and some because you're just like training the dog to like Take the e-color at. You know higher and higher levels.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh. And so what it can do sometimes is it could amp the dog up like there's, like with slim and during bite work. I don't use the e-color during bite work. It amps them up right. So that's where they say you could use the e-color as a gas pedal. So with some dogs, once they start feeling that stem, they're going to complete the behavior much quicker to turn off that stem Right, and then you pair that with some food. After now the dog gets two rewards the dog gets the reward of the release of pressure from the stem and then the dog gets their food or their ball. And that's where they talk about kind of turning it into a gas pedal, which I mean I see it done and I see it done well. But like it's two different genres, right, I'm dealing with pet dogs who I don't want the e-color to be a gas pedal for my pet dog, right, you know I don't want that, but for my working dog, yeah, I may want that for the dog.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just explained the kind of like escape avoidance thing as like pressure on, pressure off, and whenever you're in the beginning stages of teaching, whether it's verbal cues or leash pressure or e-color, that thing that you're teaching is always going to go on first, you know. So I want the dog to feel that sensation be like huh, what do I need to do? The leash gives you the guidance, or the command gives you the guidance of how to turn it off, and then, once you have a dog who understands how to turn, not turn it off, then it can come in on the back end of commands. If your dog doesn't, you know, follow through with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you're giving them kind of like the opportunity Again to like avoid right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. But I have come to terms with, too, that I could condition a dog to an e-call or with the be, I could basically use an e-car to help teach you behavior, which is something they always tell you not to do. But it's like leash pressure, right? Can you use leash pressure to teach a dog to go on a place bed? Yeah, so you should be able to use e-caller the same way, right, but we also use the leash to help communicate that, right, so I could build. I could build a loose leash heel with the e-caller and a slip leash, right? Yes, may not be necessary, but that's like. I used to think that with the e-caller too, we're like no, the dog has to know the behavior in order to start the e-caller. But I've come to learn that if you're skilled enough with the e-caller, the dog doesn't have to know the be, as long as it's not a complex behavior. I'm not going to teach my dog focus heel with the e-caller. You know what I mean, right?
Speaker 1:Right, well, some dogs also that you get are just like such behavioral cases. You know, and I had one of my friends keely on and we kind of talked about this because we were talking about how she E-caller conditions and you know, like the use of food and e-caller conditioning, and it's like, yeah, in an ideal world I would, you know, do kind of what you're doing with, like, you know, have the dog put their head through and you know, like, take your time with it, but like not all dogs are capable of that and you would literally Get nowhere.
Speaker 1:You know and it's sometimes better to start conditioning the e-caller right away. Let's say you have a dog who's, just like you know, putting so much pressure on a leash and I need to teach the dog how to give into pressure. I'll pair e-caller with leash pressure.
Speaker 2:And that's where a lot of people will give you shit and say, oh well, you don't know how to train it. Then if you have to use a tool or the way I see it is the more tools you know how to use, the more advanced your skills are, because using the e-caller is a skill. It is not an easy way out. Fuck. No, there's a whole List of rules and a whole list of things that go along with using the e-caller. So I think your, um, your ability to use a bunch of different tools to teach these things without much follow-up, that's a skill. I don't think there's any. There's any truth to when people how I use the e-caller is an easy way out. No, that's stupid. That that tells me you ain't trained a lot of dogs and you for sure Haven't been using the e-caller that long.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I did I, I don't know. I get that a lot. My biggest thing is just like, uh, the pressure on, pressure off for people like I think people are kind of like Turned off by like using using their leash or like using pressure, using like Stim, because they think it's like uncomfortable for the dog. But it's really not, because if you watch like groups of dogs kind of you know, like congregate, like for a while I did a lot of group work with dogs which I think I learned the most from like literally just like sitting and watching dogs interact like they communicate through, like Body language and spatial pressure, and like that's really what the e-caller is, is kind of like this little doggy translator, you know, because dogs aren't walking around talking to each other.
Speaker 1:No, exactly you know, and so, like humans are like, oh, I'll just like tell you what to do. Talk to me all the time, yeah so two things on that.
Speaker 2:Uh one, you want to learn good dog body language? Go to a fucking dog park and watch the dogs in there. You will learn body language in there and you will see a lot of things. Don't go in the dog park but watch those dogs in there and you will learn a lot about body language in there. And then pressure is the dog's native language. Like that is what the dog, as soon as that dog is born, that dog knows how to turn off pressure. You get a puppy, you put a puppy outside and it's hot out. What does that puppy go? Find Shade. What is that Relieving pressure? Dog's feeling something uncomfortable. That's sun. The dog goes, finds a shade. The dog's like oh, this is the answer right here. It is the dog's native language's pressure, and I think not a lot of people understand that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what kind of dog training are you mostly doing now? Lessons, boarding, trains, what you got going.
Speaker 2:So I typically just do my private. I'll do one boarding train a month. I don't like to take a lot in, I like to dedicate a lot of time to my one boarding train and then I'll continue with my private sessions. So basically private sessions, boarding trains. I'd say at least eight out of the 10 dogs I train are reactive in some way, whether it's fearfulness or excitement over arousal, whatever it may be, but I'd say eight out of 10 dogs are reactive. And then the other two out of 10 just needs some basic obedience, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think almost everybody has a reactive dog.
Speaker 2:Yeah, almost everybody.
Speaker 1:What's your take on that Of why?
Speaker 2:Bad genetics and just lack of training. What's lack of training could go down to lack of knowledge, but I think bad genetics is a big part of it. I think we're breeding a bunch of dogs where they can't handle some of the pressures that our dogs when we were growing up may have been able to handle. I know my parents had dogs and never trained one dog, but they were fine. You know they were fine. But I think as we start breeding more monstrosities, these dogs have super weak nerve but they still have a little aggression and it's just so bad and the genetics are mixed up and then people take their dogs outside a little bit more. So that plays a role into it too, right? So when my parents' dog growing up mostly lived in the backyard. So we may have had still a lot of reactive dogs back in the day, but we just didn't see them, right. So now people are going outside more with their dogs. Now we're seeing a lot more reactive dogs because they're trying to go outside, and then it goes down to the lack of knowledge.
Speaker 2:People just aren't aware on what helps the reactivity get managed and what helps the reactivity progress. Some people I see it all the time when they're walking a dog in the harness. The dog's barking, it's head off and they keep dragging the dog exactly where the dog wants to go. Yeah, I'm like man. Like yeah, I'm like exactly. If you only knew, just turn around the other way. Now I do tenfold to your training right now. But people lack of knowledge, you know, and so that's where, like people like us, we put videos out there to try to help out. The average everyday owner with a little tip is fucking just turning your dog around when they want to go that way. A little tip like that could make all the difference for some dogs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah for sure. What's like your favorite part of working with dogs and owners?
Speaker 2:Once I see the owner and the dog start clicking.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Like, once I see them start developing a little bit of a groove, they got some mojo flowing. That's what. That's what I like to see. That's my, that's my moment, right there where I'm like nice, you guys are fucking getting it now.
Speaker 1:Do you like the people coaching side of things?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I truly like. I always knew whatever I was going to do in the future, that it was going to involve helping people and thankfully I got into the business where I'm helping people and dogs. But I've always liked helping people, so being able to coach the people up is super fun for me. And I said man, I've seen, I'm sure you have, I've seen clients crying to me and like that should, that should get to my heart and I'm like man like like you need help.
Speaker 2:And then once they start getting the confidence and they're like I've never been able to walk my dog, fucking past the dog like that. Like that makes me so happy because a lot of people take for granted, like if you got a good dog at home and you haven't done much training, be fucking grateful because there are so many people out there were just letting the dog outside the front doors of hassle. I trained a dog the other week where nightmare inside, right, he's all over the place, but as soon as we go outside I'm surprised he didn't fucking shit his anal glands, like he was shut down. She's like, well, I don't walk him because he goes crazy when I walk him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so just some of these clients and their dogs just paint up about walk them in the driveway. That is such a huge win for them. And those are the types of clients where I'm like man like you really needed help and I'm so grateful that you found me and I'm able to provide that hope for you and your dog is now fucking Mr Fluffy at least gets to walk in the driveway. At least fluffy and living inside.
Speaker 1:That's precious.
Speaker 2:I love that, and so but that she keeps me going. Man, like that's the shit that keeps me going, it ain't the money, it ain't, it ain't the views. You guys like none of that shit. Like I like getting that. That's my genetic fulfillment. I'm like, fuck yeah, like I did that shit, I helped y'all out. Now this dog gets a little bit there's that new trainer energy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. I love it and like I mean I'm a little crazy, right. So like I don't know if it'll ever end. I think that that boost that I always get because like I'll feel burnout. But once I see a moment like that, I'm like, yeah, that kicked me in the next gear. You know, let's keep it going.
Speaker 1:It like, brings you back to your why exactly Because it gets stressful.
Speaker 2:You guys, we're not just out here playing with puppies and giving treats all day long Like it gets very stressful sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you talk about how most of the dogs that you work with are reactive. And I recently did an episode with my friend Clayton, who's a dog trainer, and we kind of talked about that and I was like I know exactly why, like a lot of people struggle with reactivity and I feel like a big part of it is like the expectations that we have around our dogs and like their social ability, social, social.
Speaker 2:You're asking the wrong one man. I talked to dogs all day long. My vocabulary, my brain has stopped stopped producing words.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we just have like way too high of expectation. So, like you know, you talk about like when owners have reactive dogs and it's like you can't take them anywhere, sort of thing. Do you think that it's fair for us to have that expectation that, like anybody should be able to take their dog out, like we talk about? You know your parents generation those dogs. We were not seeing those dogs. People were not trying to take their reactive, like aggressive dog to a coffee shop. Like do you, what's your kind of take on that?
Speaker 2:At the end of the day, like I deal with the lot of like the schnauzer that I'm boarding right now, she's got a couple teeth hugs on her record right and so like it's a management thing and like the best thing that I could do for her and her owner is teach them how to play, teach her how to walk the dog, and I'll tell her the best times when to go out and take that dog and where not to take that dog. So there are so many dogs who, the bare minimum, you could take them to the park, play with them. You two, you find a quiet park and you go back home and that dog will live a happy ass life. Like that dog doesn't need to go to the coffee shop yeah, that dog just needs to be able to not dodge or dart at people and dogs and to be in their own corner, but that dog doesn't need to go to home people.
Speaker 1:I feel like there's this expectation of like people that if, like, they can't get their dog to the place where, like, they can do that, that they have like somehow failed. And I just don't agree with that at all. I'm like you just don't have the dog that can do these things. Like I did a Q&A and someone asked you know what are some recommendations that you would suggest for me camping with my like dog aggressive and reactive dog and Clayton was like that dog doesn't get to go camping.
Speaker 1:Like that's not a dog that gets to enjoy that, you know, and he's like this is kind of. The problem is like there's all of these genetic messes of dogs out there and we have the expectation that these dogs that are not like genetically made to do this are like expected to go to coffee shops and dog eat, daycare and dog parks and all of this stuff. And so many people have dogs that like that is just not the case and then they feel like they've like failed their themselves or their dog in some way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it's definitely sad, but and that's regardless of training too. So I have a dog I did a lot of sessions with. Ryu was his name, look just like Zeus, zeus twin, but he had some bad fear, aggression and he had like he had like the type where, like, not a lot of warning signs are given, like he looks and he goes.
Speaker 2:And so there are dogs like that. People, as much as you may not want to believe it, there are dogs that don't give you many warning signs and look and go Right. And so we've done a lot of training with him. He's doing fine, muzzle trained. All that like we've done a lot of work. And his mom was like, okay, I want to take him to the spectrum. That's a outdoor mall out here in Irvine. Okay, I want to take him to the Irvine spectrum. I'm like, okay, we could go and we could work it. You know, we had our double line or muzzle everything, you know, everything squared away. So we were there right, and so like he was fine, but, like I told her, I was like, look at his body language right now.
Speaker 2:I was like do you think he wants to be here.
Speaker 1:He is not loving, he did not want to be.
Speaker 2:But like they were, they really wanted to take him. I was like, okay, like I'll go with you guys, I'll keep it safe and everything. But like he was, he was doing his thing, but his body language, he was not having fun.
Speaker 1:He was scanning. He was like man. Why do you want this dog to do that?
Speaker 2:And so what I told him? I was like, listen, don't take him here again. I showed you guys, you know, like he does not do well here. He doesn't want to fucking be here. He would much rather be at home, where he'd be like, thank you guys for leaving me, because I did not want to fucking go to that place. Now, if you want a dog that you could take to the outdoor mall, get a different dog. Yeah, get a different dog. Don't put him through that shit. A lot of you guys, if you, if you follow me, see my videos. How many videos do you see with Zeus at outdoor diner places or fucking lazy dog and restaurants and shit like that? Not often, right, because I know he's not going to enjoy Mr Fluffy walking by him, going right up in his face while he's laying down, and so I'm not going to subject him that to that, because it's just not fair, it's not.
Speaker 2:He would much rather fucking sleep here versus have a bunch of random dogs in his face. So, like the setting, the expectation is super real and your dog could have a very happy life, going straight to the park, going straight home and going on a walk and fucking. That's it. I'm not saying that for every dog, you guys, but if you have a dog with severe behavioral problems, lower your expectation and just work on fulfilling them physically and mentally in a safe manner that they're going to enjoy.
Speaker 1:Yeah too, and I have like a friend of mine that has a very, very human aggressive dog and I had to have like the real talk with them recently of like that you don't get to take this dog to the beach.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you know, like, this is like you can't put other people at risk.
Speaker 1:You know, and like you really have to look at your life and like how much of your life you want to sacrifice, like for this dog, because I've also heard of people who have had aggressive dogs. Somebody walked into their house, the dog bit them, they like lost their house, like they had to, like they had to like leave the neighborhood. You know, like you can really lose a lot over you know your dog's behaviors and I feel like especially not so much like in person I don't get a lot of people who are like, oh, my dog is reactive and I want to take them to. You know, the coffee shop.
Speaker 1:But, I do get the people who are like I, you know, just need to be able to like, live with this dog in a little better of a way, and you're like, yes, I can totally help you with that. But I feel like I do get a lot of questions from people on the internet who are like I, you know, here are all of my dog's behavioral issues and I'm gonna camp or I'm gonna, you know, like travel with a van full of dogs and it's like that's not, like this dog can't do this type of thing, you know, like it's not the dog.
Speaker 2:That's why I got another dog.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, I got two dogs. Why did I do that? Well, because Zeus's genetics just aren't fit to do like bite sport competitions and I'm not going to put him through that because it's high stress levels and things that go on that his genetics just don't have that. So I got another dog right. So sometimes that's if you truly want to, if you want to take your dog fucking, bike riding and rollerblading, but your dog is not there, just do yourself a favor and get another dog instead of trying to put your dog in this fucking box that they just do not fit in.
Speaker 1:And that also goes into like doing your research before getting a dog, you know, oh, yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2:First of all, don't get another dog until you're happy with where your current dog is at, Because I hate to tell you all, but most of the time your new dog will only learn bad habits from your older dog. Very rarely do they learn very good habits. They tend to bark when the other dog barks, right. So make sure your first dog is solid to the point where they're going to help you out, like when Slim was like 10 weeks. He had to recall why. Because he would chase Zeus and I would recall Zeus and so much come right back and I'd be able to pay him with some food, right.
Speaker 2:So make sure your dog is set before you go and try getting another dog and do not get your dog a fucking dog friend. Okay, if you're getting a dog, it is for you. I did not get slim for Zeus. I got slim for me, right? Because if it was up to Zeus, this was much rather not have a little fucking duchy biting his face and biting his ears all the time, right? So make sure, if you do get another dog, that you're getting that dog for yourself and not for your dog.
Speaker 1:All right, you're busting out all your dog trainer pointers what. I'm sure you get a lot of questions right. What's like the one piece of advice that you wish owners knew?
Speaker 2:This question. I get this question and a lot of times I wish my answer would be hand feeding your dog, like I know that sounds like the right answer, but in my experience, keeping a leash on your fucking dog inside the house. If you do that, you will eliminate so many problems inside the house and you will eliminate so many communication issues. It's not even funny. It's just not even funny. And what people tend to not realize is how long does your dog spend inside the house versus outside? I'd say they're inside the house at least 80% of the day. Yeah, if you got your dog running a muck inside the house 80% of the day and then you want them to respond to commands and things outside of the house, there's no way. There is no way. So I am super big with if you have any behavioral issues with your dog. Anything is going on where your dog may not listen. Keep a leash on your dog inside the house.
Speaker 1:Love it.
Speaker 2:That's a good answer that would be my number one answer. If you did that, everything else will fall into place.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you just have to have a way to hold your dog accountable to the things. And one thing is, you know, owners are really good at teaching all of this stuff, but they're not good at holding their dogs accountable to it. Yeah, you know, and the leash is how you do that.
Speaker 2:Dude, it's magic, and that's why I like the E-caller because it's a cordless leash.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, and it's the same thing. But it is truly magic when your dog understands, like when you tell them to do something, that if they don't do it, you're going to make them do it, and that's where you know the force, for your people come in where they're uncomfortable with that aspect right, they like to give the dog agency, which I do as well too, but I am also fully aware that my dog is a domesticated predator and may not make the best decisions and sometimes needs my help to help him make the best decision right. But that's where some people feel uncomfortable. Well, I don't want to make them to. Okay, I understand, but let me explain to you why that's going to be harmful to your dog in the long run. So what about you? What would be your, your one advice Pet?
Speaker 1:your dog less.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, that's a good one. Yeah, that's a good one. The this stuff you guys like.
Speaker 1:I understand People will fight me over that one.
Speaker 2:Understand. It sounds cold and you're like. Well, follow through and make your dog.
Speaker 1:No, people are petting their dogs 24 seven, literally 24 seven.
Speaker 2:It becomes I mean it becomes obsessive, like in it, and it becomes very unhealthy with the dog. For some dogs, like some dogs, it's not a big deal, but some dogs it develops a very unhealthy, unbalanced relationship between you and the dog, and that's just the truth of the matter.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and dogs aren't walking around like no petting. It's so weird.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the dog, the dog definitely. I think that it puts a kink in the relationship and I think too many people. I say this to my clients. It's a little hard, it's not that hard to grasp, but I say it to my clients Don't treat your dog like a kid. Treat your dog like a partner. If you have a partner and you're obsessing over that partner 24 seven, that's not healthy, Right? That shows a little bit of insecurity and a little bit of deeper rooted issues in yourself If you constantly have to be so obsessive about that partner all the time, Right? So don't treat it like your kid. Treat your dog like your partner.
Speaker 1:We call that anxious attachment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it goes both ways. I see people doing it all the time. I'll tell them that I'll be like, don't pet your dog and like two seconds later they're petting the dog I'm like hey, don't pet your dog right now. They're like oh, I didn't even realize I was doing it. I'm like that's how deeply rooted it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Or like every time their dog walks up to them, they like pet it, like every single time, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so it's like it's not a huge issue, unless it's an issue Like like that's how Zeus is right. Zeus walks up to you and he's like, hey, pet me, pet me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I like feed into it. You know what I mean. And there's no, and he knows that.
Speaker 2:And there's no there's no big.
Speaker 1:This bitch is going to pet me yeah.
Speaker 2:But there's no big fallout from it, like because of where he's at in his training and our relationship and stuff. So I can let him do a little bit more stuff like that. But if you have issues with your dog listening or whatever it may be, keep that in mind. Maybe you're giving them too much attention, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have these little clingy, clingy insecure dogs that like can't function.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's. It's so unhealthy man, it is so unhealthy for the dog and you take so much away from the dog when you start treating them like that.
Speaker 1:You know what? I get attacked all the time for Wait, I just lost my train of thought.
Speaker 2:That many things, huh, that many things.
Speaker 1:Where are we going? Oh, the separation anxiety.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh my god, the certified separation anxiety experts. What I don't like give me a break. What like? What is that?
Speaker 2:No, give me a break. I people struggle with that. I mean, and nine times out of 10 that's something that you conditioned to the dog, right? That's what I'm saying is I'm like Thank you.
Speaker 1:I'm like this isn't like real anxiety. It's just like a conditioned behavior, like you haven't taught your dog how to function and people are like You're traumatizing dogs because you don't take like look at him.
Speaker 2:He's already traumatized, like, look at the dog that dogs freaking the fuck out. You're these already traumatized? I know he's already there like I say it all the time, one of the best cares for separation, anxiety separation.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, you have to teach the dog to be alone. That's all I'm. I'm super big on tethering your dog to a door, tethering them to a placement Like. I'm super big on that, especially with super anxious dogs. Yes, you know.
Speaker 1:I love tethering.
Speaker 2:That's my favorite huge.
Speaker 1:It's all of our all of our boarding trains, when, so we do an initial go home session, which is when we bring the dog back and we do it in the owner's home, because I think it's like a good way.
Speaker 2:That's like it's good to transition, it's good for us to be there and like, yeah, in their neighborhood, at their home, exactly, and so I.
Speaker 1:I always like how it goes is you train the dog to this really high level and then you go back home and they immediately drop to you know like Half of their skills right, because all of the bad behaviors that they learned they learned in that environment.
Speaker 1:So then you go back to that environment and they go right back to it. So we do our initial go home session with the owners in the home. The dog immediately is like bad you know. And I always tell my owners like how I start all of my go home sessions is go ahead and say hi to your dog, they're gonna be, super fucking amped up. Yeah, you're also gonna be amped up. I will show you how I calm them down.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 1:So we get the greetings out of the way, the dog loses its mind. And then I do like walking drills. I'm like all right, so you walk out the door, this is your dog, they're amped up. I'm gonna show you what the walking drills can do and how they can like Bring our dog back. So once I've gotten the dog like in a calmer state of mind and they're like back into like training mode, like okay, same rules apply here, then I'll like hand the leash over to the owner. But in that first week, in that first initial go home session, I say keep the leash on For at least a week.
Speaker 1:You know, so kind of going back to that like first piece of advice that you're mentioning is like have your leash on all the time. Keep your leash on for this first week because you're gonna ask your dog to do things. It's not that they don't know how to do the things. We need to have the leash on to be able to hold them accountable to the things. And what happens is, every time you're not able to hold your dog accountable, they learn that they don't have to listen to you. It's not just that they're not listening to you, they're learning that they don't have to. So we're like actively working against all of your training. So tether your dog. That's why we tether our dogs is because we don't want them to Be actively practicing. You know, breaking place without us releasing them and getting that full reward Of like running up off of place and getting pet by somebody in. You know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think people forget that dogs are opportunist. They are going to do Whatever they can to do what they want to do and if they figure out that what they're doing helps them do what they want to do, they're going to keep doing that. So if my dog doesn't want to get off the couch and I don't ever make him get off the couch he's learning Okay, when dad tells me get off the couch, I don't have to get off the couch. And the more times I tell him that and he stays on the couch, your dog keeps tally of that shit. Literally they know like. That's why you get your dog who listens to mom but doesn't listen to dad or listens to. You know that because they know who they have to listen to and that's where we have to be the adult and show the dog.
Speaker 1:Hey, I know you don't want to listen. You're the designated human.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh exactly.
Speaker 1:You have to make the rules. There's a responsibility there.
Speaker 2:And if you are not comfortable with that Responsibility, don't get a dog. Don't get a dog because there's going to be a time where you have to tell that dog no. And if you're not comfortable with doing that, don't get a dog, because that's not fair for the dog that you're going to withhold. That, that form of communication for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, okay, I want to talk to you about the social media stuff.
Speaker 2:Oh, nice, nice Okay.
Speaker 1:What is it like? What is it like to be an online celebrity?
Speaker 2:um, I don't take too much note of it. So, like, I was always somebody who I just wanted to post cool videos of my like. It didn't even start off with me Wanting to teach people, it just started off with me wanting to showcase what I did. Was this would I taught him all by myself? Or nobody helped me teach him that, like, and that's what it just started with.
Speaker 2:And, um, I feel like I'm trying my best to take advantage of the publicity that I have by showing a good example of a bully breed, by showing Good examples of training, by showing realistic Expectations with dogs and with clients and things like that. So it in no way does it get to my head or anything like that. Like, the followers don't mean nothing, right, I want clients. I don't really care so much about followers, right, I want I want clients and I want people to be able to see how easy dog training can be when you just put your leash on your dog and some people aren't aware of that, and if I could post a video that's going to help them. Beautiful, beautiful, but um, as far as like being a famous or anything like that, no, not, if I'm still renting a home, I ain't famous right Once I start owning some hoes, you know. But like when I go out, like I'll get recognized here and there it's still a little awkward.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, it's still a little awkward, the inland empire, orange county, like southern California, it's big but it's very like Well known I guess. Okay, you know, so like I will get recognized, quite a bit like if I'm out on the town.
Speaker 1:I kind of love that for you. Yeah, it's, it's cool, but I've been recognized like twice and I like I'll never recover from that, is it?
Speaker 2:is awkward. Huh, it's a little weird. No, I love it oh you know. No, I mean yeah, yeah, so.
Speaker 1:I like it, but.
Speaker 2:Me. Oh, my god, you killed me. You killed me. Yeah, no, for me it's a little awkward, man Like I'm, like you want to come say hi to me.
Speaker 2:Like what do you mean? Like it's a little awkward, but if you do see me out on about, come say hi, because I it does make me happy and I'm like holy shit, like you know, it is a cool feeling. All right, I may be a little, you know, I'll take a deep breath and be a little awkward, but I Do. I do enjoy that people have enough courage to come up and say hi to somebody that they don't know or that they've never met before. You know, because that takes a lot of courage. If I saw someone famous online, I don't know if I'd go say hi to them. Yeah, I play. Oh, shit, I don't know, you know. So it takes a lot of courage and so I appreciate everybody who does come say hi to me.
Speaker 2:Um, do not hesitate. Unless you see me with a client, you see me with the client and actively train. Please, just wait a little bit, just please, because a lot of my dogs reacted to people and you coming up right. So, but now it's a really cool thing. I'm just trying my best to take advantage of a and um Really showcase a good example of you know what good training could do for a bully breed, especially our bully breeds right there. So, uh, stigmatized and um, you know, I want to be the person that People didn't have, that I didn't have when I was growing up. You know, like I want to be that little light where, like I could add in a little bit of help to people with dog training. Like every now and again I'll post some stuff about like men's mental health and shit like that, because that shit's important to me, because I used to laugh at that shit when I was younger.
Speaker 1:Do you want to have the mental health conversation? This is my favorite conversation.
Speaker 2:We hear the talk right, but that that's a big thing for me and I think it's important, like I always told myself right, like if I ever did get a good size platform, that I would try my best to help people learn things that I Didn't know, that could have helped me out in the past, that I don't know the hard way, whether it's with dogs, with life, with relationships. You know, like I've been through some shit and I feel like it, I feel responsible to go and help people because I have that platform and especially, especially with men's mental health man I'm, so I'm super big on that shit because I know how tough it could be, how, how skewed our generation is on emotion and emotional intelligence and Therapy and like things that fucking that a lot of us men need and we may not be aware that we even need it. So if you're a man, you need therapy. Okay, just put it just right there, do you therapy?
Speaker 2:I do Stop. Yeah, not often, but I did beforehand a little bit more often.
Speaker 1:I'm a I'm a very consistent Therapy girly will therapy girl. When do I have therapy? Tuesdays at 7 pm. No, but that's.
Speaker 2:Like that's legit. I mean that's a legitimate thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a legitimate thing like there has to be somebody else, there has to be a professional in place to tell me I'm losing my mind. Yeah, no, it's just, it's like helpful, and sometimes it can be really hard to like Confide in the people around you or maybe you like don't have people around you.
Speaker 1:You know, like we kind of talked about like what happens when you outgrow people, like there's definitely that period of like loneliness and I think, having you know a professional in a Situation like that to be like hey, I see lots of people who are on the other side of this, you know, like how you're feeling right now is like super valid and You're gonna get through it, like everybody gets through it, like we will talk through it and I see it all the time, just like how we can see somebody who's struggling with their dog and be like there's light at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like how you feel right now is not a permanent feeling like it's helpful to have some like. Professional in place to be like keep going, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And I always equate it to dogs because I'm a dog trainer and I fucking equate everything to dogs whenever I can. But like With therapy and like with dog training, a lot of people like, well, how long until my dog is going to be fixed and how many sessions? And I Explained it to him like therapy. I'm like you've ever been a therapy? Ask your therapist, you ain't ever fixed. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like ask him like like okay, how many sessions am I gonna need doc for this for the my, my?
Speaker 2:Exactly go away. There is no time living on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you go at your pace and you keep progressing and sometimes it's a you got to manage it for the rest of your life. But there is no. We are doing therapy with dogs when you are doing real behavior modification. I am doing therapy with dogs. I am in that dog's head, trying to teach that dog better coping mechanisms. Trying to teach that dog better coping mechanisms, reasons why they shouldn't be afraid, you know, reasons why they should stay with me.
Speaker 2:I'm doing all that shit and you can't put a time limit on it, like I. I know I, like I do the month-long boarding trains and that's a good time limit. But even at that, like when I, on the go home session, I tell the clown like hey, he's not fixed, you have to maintain this stuff to continue the progress, because this is now a relationship based thing when now you have to show him, you give him the same fulfillment that I did. Yeah, right, and that is huge. And if you lay off on that, that dog will not give you the same responses that he gives me, and that is I mean you hear that all the time right, oh, he's so good with the trainer, you know. So it's one of those things where you have to keep up with it, just like therapy yeah, I gotta keep up with it. And sometimes you can fill yourself slack and then like with my boarding train clients, I basically offer like free sessions after that. So once they do the board and I'm like, hey, if you ever need to.
Speaker 1:You're not just gonna like leave people hanging.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's my pride and joy. Like once your dog boarding trains. That is my fucking dog Right. Like that's my dog.
Speaker 1:Like I love that dog Just yeah, especially you only take one dog at a time.
Speaker 2:That is very personal super personal dude, that's my boy or that's my girl. Some sideways happens with that dog. I'm good, if you take that dog into his position, they're not going to be, I'm gonna give you shit. I'm tough on my clients. I'm very fair and I'm very kind, but I'm definitely tough on my clients where I'm like, hey, this is my dog too. You're not gonna fucking fuck around with my dog and do this shit. That's not going to be good for him, you know.
Speaker 2:And yeah, thankfully I have a lot of really good clients. Man, I don't, I can't even think of the last bad client experience I've had. That's good, yeah, but like I've had really really good clients and I think that's also part of what helps with the social media is that people know what they're going to get when they see me. Right, like they know what I do, they know how I talk, they, they know I curse, they know I get a little vocal, right. But like they know that and so I think that helps. It's almost like a resume, right, like you kind of see what you do. And I know people don't like to see before and afters, but I mean that's another conversation, but wait why? Well, because people will say like before and afters, make things unreasonable, unlike you. Well, what happened?
Speaker 2:in between who's saying this? Um, there's a lot, a lot of people will say that like before and afters could be uh, cap, basically just because they're like well what happened in between the before and after. I'm like fucking training, dude Training that's what happened? Well, what exactly happened? You know what? You can send me an email. We can set up a consultation. I'll explain the whole thing I did with this boarding train. Yeah, so that's one of those things.
Speaker 1:We gotta get you some courses.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm definitely, I'm definitely ready to do that Once I get this puppy. When are you getting the puppy? Well, the parents aren't confirmed or the Alright. So, like in the dog training world, when we say bitch, talking about a female dog, that's a common thing. Okay, it's not a disrespectful thing or anything like that, because I almost said when the bitch is confirmed, ha ha ha, that is something that we say in the dog world.
Speaker 1:Honestly, bitch is my favorite term of endearment. Ha, ha, ha, ha ha ha, from the office.
Speaker 2:you've seen Kelly where she's like I'm the business bitch. Yeah, yeah so, but yeah so once the, if the mom is confirmed, then she should be due October 28th or at least around that time.
Speaker 1:That's exciting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, super exciting.
Speaker 1:so I'll have a that's soonish, fairly soon, let's get your course.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm telling you, let's do it, let's do it. Yeah, I'm ready.
Speaker 1:You got a good timeline.
Speaker 2:I'm ready. Huh, it's a shit rolling. Just enough time. I'm super ready, you guys.
Speaker 1:We'll definitely make that happen. Are there any little nuggets of dog training gold that you wanna?
Speaker 2:share with us before we close out. You're gonna have me talking all night. If there's one thing I could do, it's talk about dogs. I don't know, I guess at the end of the day, I mean I'll give a little sum for dog trainers and a little sum for Okay, let's hear it.
Speaker 2:Pat owners right. So for dog trainers, our job at least in my, what I truly believe is to keep dogs in homes. So it's your responsibility as a dog trainer to, like Meg said, adapt to the client to help them keep that dog in their home. If you make shit too hard for them, they're not gonna wanna do it and they're gonna be unmotivated to train because it's just too hard for them. So do your best to learn as much as you can and really adapt your training style to the client.
Speaker 2:Like, one of my first questions I always ask clients is like what's your daily routine? Like that's the first question I ask them because I need to know exactly how I'm gonna break down things for you to be able to do. So just always keep that in mind. You guys, there's no one approach fits all. It's never like that. There's always gonna be things that you're gonna change your mind about that you may have to tweak a little bit. So always be open-minded and never stop learning shit. Because even like I'm still young in the game, right, I've only been doing this maybe I'd say two and a half, three years not a long time at all, right, but I am consistently still going to seminars and learning things online, doing courses and things like that, so I could continue to get better and be able to help more dogs.
Speaker 1:One thing that this has nothing to do with that, but one thing that I love that you do. I don't know how I feel about it, but he's like love me, Don't laugh at me. When you talk, you say you guys.
Speaker 2:Like are you saying, like I should be saying, you people, no, no no, no. No, no, no, no. Am I not being PC? No, no, no, no, that's not what.
Speaker 1:I was getting at Like you're very good at like talking to people that aren't here. You know what I'm saying, Uh-huh yeah, like there's nobody in front of us. I know what you're saying.
Speaker 2:Will fills it, I know Will fills it.
Speaker 1:Our audience of one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah you know, but like that's a skill of its own. No, I know that's what I'm saying. Like I love that.
Speaker 1:Like you're gonna see me, you guys, saying no, uh-huh, no.
Speaker 2:It's huge y'all Like. It's so big y'all Like. If you have any job, your personal trainer, whatever it is, if your job entails coaching people learn how to speak. Watch YouTube videos of great speakers, learn the techniques that they use to help them communicate very cleanly and very personally. You know you want the people to be touched when you're talking to them, so there's no, you're very good at that, uh-huh, and that's why, like dog training, there's just so many skills involved that it's more than just sitting and treating. No, it is so deep and I feel like, like I said, I get my genetic fulfillment, I get to practice different aspects of you know just everyday human psychology, right?
Speaker 1:Ugh shame. I love that new dog trainer energy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we'll see if it goes away. We'll see if it goes away, but I just don't know. I feel like I get such a high out of like doing this stuff that even when I'm dead tired, like once I start training, I'm like okay, let's go.
Speaker 1:That's good and it definitely shows.
Speaker 2:You know, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1:It definitely shows that you're very passionate.
Speaker 2:Try my best. That's all I'm trying to do.
Speaker 1:Tell the people where they can find you.
Speaker 2:So TikTok and Instagram at ShaneWMurray and then if you go to my link tree on my Instagram, it'll take you to my website.
Speaker 1:You have a website.
Speaker 2:I got a website.
Speaker 1:You have a website.
Speaker 2:What a crowd. I'm a player role. There's big dogs over here. I got Zeus's face on there, huh.
Speaker 1:Nice, I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2:I got a lot of stuff on there. But yeah, I definitely appreciate you having me down. Like I said, I could talk dogs all night long.
Speaker 1:Thanks for letting me you know. Set up a studio in your living room, of course it's good, I feel like that Drake interview. I know right.
Speaker 2:You're in my house and just chillin'.
Speaker 1:You're like a glass of champagne right here.
Speaker 2:Like that's boss level. You came to my house.
Speaker 1:Exactly exactly Well. Thank you again, shane. So much for joining me. I had such a blast, even though we did have a few technical issues, but that's all right, still worked out, and thank you so much for listening. We will see you back here next week.