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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
Navigating the World of Dog Training: A Conversation with Oscar Mora
Ever wondered what it takes to go from a nine-to-five grind to following your passion full-time? As we chat with Oscar Mora, dog trainer and owner of Elevated Canine Academy, we uncover the fascinating journey that led him from the aerospace manufacturing to a life filled with sport and pet dog training. Oscar introduces us to the protection sports of Schutzhund and Mondioring, shares the pleasure he finds in being more present with his family life, and gives us an inside scoop on current and past trends of professional dog training.
This episode isn't just about Oscar's story - we also dive headfirst into thought-provoking topics like the impact of breed and genetics on a dog's behavior, and the controversial effects of different training methods on dogs. Oscar helps us debunk some myths about bite work and shares his insights about selecting puppies based on confidence and drive. We emphasize responsible dog ownership and the importance of understanding a pet's breed before welcoming them into your home.
In the final part of our discussion, we delve into the nuances of dog training, addressing contentious issues like effective correction techniques and the often misleading portrayal of dog training on social media. We also explore the importance of teaching dogs an 'off switch,' and share our own experiences and techniques.. Tune in for an enlightening conversation that not only gives you a unique perspective into the world of dog training but also equips you with practical tips to navigate it.
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Hello and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. On today's episode, I'm joined by the one and only Oscar Mora of Elevated Canine Academy. We are out here in the LA area still in California. We're going to talk all about his new facility, working, dog stuff and so much more. So you know the drill. Grab yourself a tasty drink and meet us back here, oscar.
Speaker 2:How's it going?
Speaker 1:Welcome.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you for having me and hanging out in your new facility.
Speaker 2:Thanks for coming out. How was that drive?
Speaker 1:Honestly, not bad. I like driving. I'm a bit of a crazy person when it comes to that.
Speaker 2:And you're going to continue driving for a little bit right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I'm going to go back up north and hit all the Oregon and Wyoming and those sorts of states.
Speaker 2:That's pretty cool. Yeah, we did that with my family not long ago. We went to Utah and in the van with the kids and it was pretty fun.
Speaker 1:How many kids do you have?
Speaker 2:Two kids.
Speaker 1:Nice. How old are they?
Speaker 2:My son, noah, just turned eight and my daughter is going to turn 11. Allison.
Speaker 1:I'm like a real adult, like a dad, a full blown dad.
Speaker 2:Husband, dad, yep everything.
Speaker 1:Angie run a business. Yeah, how was that? How's balancing all of that?
Speaker 2:I mean, you know it's good, I wouldn't change it for anything. I feel like I could never go back to my nine to five.
Speaker 1:Okay, what did you do before this?
Speaker 2:I was a machinist, I was working for an aerospace company you know doing like the fighter jets, the skins of the fighter jets, what yeah?
Speaker 1:So that's what we're doing before.
Speaker 2:That's what I was doing before, and then I did that for what? 10 years until I left it so I could do elevated full time.
Speaker 1:Okay, and what kind of like prompted you to make that transition into dog training? Like what got you started?
Speaker 2:I mean I think it all started from baby, from when I was a kid and like my dad was always working and he didn't really get to experience much with me like go to my games or anything like that, and think that was always in the back of my head of like, oh man, I wish I could do something where I could be a little more present, you know. And so when I was working that job, I mean literally I couldn't. I mean I was making decent money but not enough to live in LA and be able to experience a whole bunch of stuff with my kids. So you know, luckily I found this passion for dog training and it took off. Thank God I was able to leave that job and now I could just take my kids to school, pick them up whenever, whenever I can.
Speaker 1:What was your like entry into the dog world?
Speaker 2:So I got into I mean I was going to get a Connie Corso and it was a big, scary looking dog and I was like, oh shoot, I think I'm going to need some training on this thing. So I started like watching Cesar Milan and all that, and that was like the beginning of it, okay. And then I got my my Corso and yeah, I just I honestly I was driving by and I saw the field where these people were doing dog training and I dropped in and the rest is history. I mean, it's a golf from there.
Speaker 1:What like sport did you do at first?
Speaker 2:Shutzen. Yeah, so I started with this old German guy. His name is Peter Bergmeister, which he has now. You know he passed away a couple years ago and I have his field now in Carson.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So, so yeah, I mean he's. He's the one that got me started.
Speaker 1:And Shutzen is kind of like I don't know. I feel a little bit old schooled. What was your experience with that? Because I talked to some people and they're like I hated it at first because it was just very like I don't know, regimented and it's, it's definitely regimented, it's definitely a sport that requires a lot of.
Speaker 2:I mean, they really look at the small details of you know there's. There's certain sports where your dog could be a little more loose and you could still get full points. And in Shutzen, not only do they look at like how precise the position is, but the attitude of the dog, like if there's, if the dog's ears tuck back a little bit, they're like, oh, there's some pressure there, so you're going to get minus points, and so it's definitely one of those sports. But personally I feel like it made me a better trainer.
Speaker 1:Wait, so you did this with your Connie Corso.
Speaker 2:No, so I know, with my Malawa, Okay yeah, but with my Connie Corso I started there, but then I moved from Carson, where that field was at where I'm at now, which was about an hour drive, but in LA like an hour could turn into like two hours. So so I got into a ring sport. So the first, my first course, so that I titled was in Mondial Ring.
Speaker 1:I don't know that much about Mondial Ring.
Speaker 2:I could try to explain.
Speaker 1:Yes, please.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Mondial Ring is a sport that is recognized by FCI. There's like a world championship and that one, unlike Shutzen IGP, where they separate obedience, protection and tracking. There it's all together. So you'll do your obedience and from your obedience you'll go right into your protection and it's with the full suit when we do bite work. It's all full suit, not with the sleeve.
Speaker 1:Right, shutzen, shutzen, shutzen, shutzen. Yeah, it's just sleeve. Yeah, correct, that's right, so it's.
Speaker 2:it's like a dance, Like so. Shutzen is very much like a dance, unlike ring sports and stuff.
Speaker 1:Okay, interesting, I'm learning all the dog sport things. So you got into it just as kind of like a hobby at first and what was that transition like when you were like I want to do this. Did you learn from anybody? What kind of got you in pet dog training?
Speaker 2:So I mean dealing with sport dogs, where there's rules you have to go by and you know high drive dogs, most of the time I felt like the pet dog stuff was pretty easy, easy. But then because there's also issues you're running to with sport dogs that you have to deal with, like you know, over excitement and all that stuff, which is pretty similar stuff to what we deal with in the pet dogs, and so I mean I just personally just like working with dogs and working with people and that's really where it all started for me and you know, once I saw that I could make a living doing this like Did you have like a first client, somebody who was like please help me train my dog, and then that's kind of what you got into.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's usually like people in the within the club and all that will have friends and they'll let them know about you. And I started doing it for free and just, you know, trying to after work I'll go and you know, train a couple of dogs, and that's how I got my experience. And then I went to there was a guy in Vegas who kind of was like, hey, man, you could probably do something with you know, with your skill. And he's like, why don't you come out and see how I do things? And I went out there for two weeks and I saw how he was running his business and I was like I think I could do this and so so, yeah, and you know, and then at some point my wife was like, hey, it looks like we might be all right if you just do it full time.
Speaker 1:And. I was like say less let me quit my job, please.
Speaker 2:When she gave me that green light, I was like the next day I went to work and I was like, hey, peace out, I'm out.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:Nice. But yeah, it's, it's cool. I mean, you know, again, there's there's a there's big differences with sport dogs and pet dogs, but it all, it all has to do with I think they're kind of like opposite.
Speaker 1:you know, like I I don't know I started off very much in pet dog world and my business was kind of structured around like owners because I started off as a dog walker. So I was in people's houses every single day and you get super close to those people and you see, everything that you do.
Speaker 1:So I was like, of course, all these dogs are crazy. Like this is what these people are doing, you know. So then, when I started like educating them about, like hey, when you come home and you go, like you're just creating this like overly excited dogs.
Speaker 1:And then when you walk out the door with your dog, your dog like loses their mind and they're like, oh my gosh right. But then in the sport dog world you're kind of doing the opposite of the things that you would do with, like pet dogs. And that's one thing that, like I really struggled with in the beginning when I got my mall is like I'm very good at like mellowing dogs out and like chilling them out, and like everybody who works my mall, they're like she's so polite.
Speaker 1:That's good she's so polite Like yeah, but she's not, like she doesn't have that like that craziness to her. Yeah, that craziness to her Cause. I like that's tough for me. So when I, you know, did like obedience sessions in front of people, they're like you're so boring and I'm like, oh God.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean definitely you have to, you know, bring a little bit more excitement when it comes to sport dogs, but you also have to teach them the skills of like you could, you have to be you know high drive, but then you need to like settle, and I think that that was. You know, that's a big piece, that a lot of sport dog trainers are missing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like they could have an amazing dog in the field. And then you see the dog outside of the field and you're like Holy crap.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, and two sometimes their lives are just like so different than the average pet dog and that they're just kind of like in a crate if they're not being worked.
Speaker 2:So that I think that's a, that's a culture, that's like a culture that I don't know. I see a lot of sport and I've I've been there, I've done it and it's something that I've, you know, tried to change, like where I don't just take out my dogs just to work them and then put them back in the kennel or crate. I'm trying to like involve them. And I think it comes down to because we enjoy dog training so much that we'd rather get more dogs so we could keep training all of them, yeah, instead of like enjoying the dog for what it is. So when I got my first course, so she went with me everywhere. I mean, I had her everywhere with me and then I ended up getting more dogs and then all of a sudden, you don't have the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:To give to all these dogs. So, yeah, I think that's a that's a culture thing when it comes to like sport, dog culture.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Where they get a bunch of dogs and then they don't have the time for them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and how many personal dogs do you have?
Speaker 2:We have three right now. Okay.
Speaker 1:That's like that's a good number.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have my golden doodle. He's like you know, our, our family guy. And then I have my two Malinwas.
Speaker 1:There you go. You don't have any conny corsoes right now.
Speaker 2:Not right now, no Okay.
Speaker 1:Are you going to get one soon?
Speaker 2:I'm probably going to wait a little bit. I got my corso about a month ago, and so I'm just going to chill out for a little bit. Yeah, eventually I'll get one, you know. But I'm going to chill out for a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel that so you kind of integrate your like mouths into the pet dog life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, like right now, especially now, my older guy he's going to be nine, so you know I take him with me wherever I go and then my young one. I'm trying to do the same thing, just try to get them out as much as I can.
Speaker 1:That's good. Like not a lot of people do that with their dogs especially dog trainers.
Speaker 2:And then I struggled because, like my young dog, I feel like he doesn't have that like fire in him that I want to see.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But then I'm like yeah, but you're also doing a lot more with him that you would probably not normally be doing. Yeah, you know with.
Speaker 1:so you know it's like taking him out and stuff.
Speaker 2:Um yeah, like I normally, I would just get him out to work, I'm like three or four times a day and the dogs become addicted to that and you know they become a little crazy and you know that's what I'm used to and I'm trying to change that a little bit. So as I'm getting older I'm realizing that you know, sport, dog stuff is cool, but I just need to enjoy the dog just for who he is, and that's it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was one thing. Um, I took my mouth to like bite work and I am the only one that can work her because she is not around men ever. I'd like growing up and so, um, she's like scared of the decoys. So I have to like work her, and then I like pass it off to you know, the decoy, and then he can work her a little bit, and then she'll kind of be like, oh God, where are you?
Speaker 1:And then I have to like come back and work her again. Um, but he was like, does she have a lot of outlets outside of this? And I was like, yeah, she does everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's very much a pet dog. I take her everywhere, like she goes hiking, she plays with my other dogs and he's like if you really want to do this, you have to stop doing that. Like her life has to be a little bit boring until we kind of built her up and I'm like I get it. I get it because, like at my house there's like 20 dogs sometimes and if I have like a big group of dogs that get along like, I'll let all the dogs out, you know, and she's like playing with other dogs all day.
Speaker 2:So when I take her to bite work and she's like there's this big scary guy that's like trying to yell at me and like yeah, and I mean I think I mean you got to also think about it, Like, is the sport going to be like your main thing?
Speaker 2:No, definitely but personally, I feel like it's not every. Even if it's a Malinois, not every dog is meant to do, you know, a sport. I mean, that's just, that's just what it is. So I would say, if you enjoy the sport and you fall in love with it, then I would get a dog for that.
Speaker 1:I'm not. I'm not a sport girl, yeah, and if you're not, then it's like I just yeah. She's honestly like perfect for me, because she's like just enough of a Malinois that I can like do things with her.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know, but like just for fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she enjoyed like dog diving and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Like. So you mean you could, as long as you have fun with her and she's having a good time. I think that's what matters. I think that sometimes people force their dogs into bite work and it's like the dog is afraid of this dude. You're like putting them in front, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's honestly like I know that she's never going to be like this killer or anything, but it's good for her, like putting her in uncomfortable situations. You know, like I, I need her to toughen up, just like a little bit.
Speaker 2:Okay, you disagree. Um, I mean, I think pressure is always good to in order to grow. I think a little bit of pressure is good. I mean, is she really going to? I mean, what do you? What's the end goal for that?
Speaker 1:It's really more so for me to learn all of the things.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:You know, all right. Because, like I can't show up to club with a golden retriever and do bitey things Right Right, right.
Speaker 2:I mean if you enjoy it and everything that's cool. But I think it becomes a problem when just the dog just hates being there and you know if I mean she's fine Like she's just a little weird when she's trying to get by work. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, Like she's, she's fine. People have worked her before and she like it's not like I'm like traumatizing her.
Speaker 2:And yeah, okay, she's just a big baby. Yeah, then it's all good.
Speaker 1:It's literally like a golden retriever and a ball and wall body she's like you get yelled, but just don't yell too loud. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 2:Exactly yeah, and she gets some of her anxieties out that she might have and stuff you know, letting it out on the grip.
Speaker 1:So it's all good. Yeah, she, she enjoys it, she does. She's just a little uncomfy at first. Yeah, I'm like I get it. I get it. You know like he's scary, he's got like the face tattoos and you know like I get it, oh man. So you got your start in kind of the sport world and then transitioned over into pet dog training and that's predominantly what your business is now Correct.
Speaker 2:Correct yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, you've had your business for seven years. What's one big takeaway that you've seen over the years that you wish more owners knew? Like one main piece of advice of like I wish more owners either you know like knew this before getting a dog, or knew this when they were struggling with behavioral issues, that sort of thing.
Speaker 2:Hmm, I was talking about like the dog owners, not like the.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, like a little PSA to dog owners out there, as like I mean an experienced dog trainer.
Speaker 2:Obviously, I think that many people go off of with how the dog looks and not what the dog was bred for, and you run into problems because people end up getting dogs that were bred to work and you want them to just be at home laying down next to you while you watch a movie, and then, when you go to work, for them just to be hanging out and that is not what they were designed to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's how we run into problems. So I mean I would say look into the breed. Even when it comes to say you want to get a Labrador or a golden retriever, are you going to get him from Showlines, are you getting from working lines? Do the research so that you don't run into problems Because even if you get training on a working line lab, you're still going to have to fulfill that dog's. You know life, a certain thing and drive and everything. So definitely look into the breed before you know you go and purchase it. But I know, I know nobody does that, everybody calls us once a.
Speaker 1:You know, that's why we have jobs, job security which I'm not mad.
Speaker 2:I mean it's part of it, but I mean that's definitely one of the things. And then, like the lit, like when you look at the litter, when you go over there, you look at the puppies, like some people will be like, well, like I was, because I came from the course, so from the county course, so breed. So they'll be like he picked me. And I'm like, no, that dog was afraid for his life. He's hiding behind you because he was afraid of everything.
Speaker 2:And now we're dealing with this issue instead of you getting the one that was a little more confident. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So look at the puppies, but from the beginning.
Speaker 1:What should people look for when they're picking out a puppy?
Speaker 2:So I personally me I like a dog that doesn't have a ton of drive, especially if I pet dog but, it's confident, you can just walk. You know you could see that, like I'll usually have my clients, I was like get a bottle, put some rocks in it, go over there, drop it, see what dog goes and investigates it, see what dog runs away. Like, look at those little things and that's how I base my pick. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always tell people the key test, like drop a, drop a set of keys.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Next to the puppy. See what they do flip them over start clapping.
Speaker 2:you know, do, do, do stuff that you know might startle some of the puppies put, put a bone there and, you know, put some put a toy there and see how they react towards it. If you see that there's a dog that's bullying all the other puppies, like just know, you're going to have to deal with certain things with that puppy, compared to the one that doesn't care about it so much. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:And that's one thing that I'm learning like the longer that I do this for is I'm realizing how strong genetics really are in any dog, whether it's like a working dog or a pet dog, like they really do just have their personalities, you know, and owners are always like well, I've trained six lines of German shepherds and I've never had issues before. And it's like yeah, dogs are literally individuals, just like how people are.
Speaker 2:A thousand percent. Yeah, they all have their their own twerks and you have to deal with.
Speaker 1:You know, yeah, so yeah, Um, the you're mentioning like deciding whether you are looking into whether you wanted, you know, a working line lab or a show line, and that's actually how I got into dog training is I got my golden and she's a working line golden and I had no idea that that was even a thing. I was like I'm just going to get this cute little red golden retriever Right, you know. And I had my first dog and she was a show line golden, just like a little cuppy cake, like always off leash, never had any issues with her yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm like I'm the best dog trainer in the whole world. And then I got Lucy, my second one, and I was like what the fuck is this Cracked out all the time? I thought there was like something wrong with her. And then, once I kind of like educated myself a little bit, I was like, oh, I got a field line golden.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know that really like changed things for me, because it put me in a different mindset of like this is like a genetic need instead of like these are behavioral issues.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know and that's something that I've recently been talking a lot about is, I don't think and you might disagree with me, but I don't think we have as much control in behavioral modification as dog training will lead you to believe.
Speaker 2:Right, I do agree with that. I mean oh listen, let's not like.
Speaker 1:I think I think a lot of behavioral mod is training for management, giving you, giving the owners the tool to be able to manage a dog's behavior. But I think, at the end of the day, when a dog has like behavioral issues, it's usually just some sort of genetic need and if you're not able to fulfill that genetic need, you need management to be able to like, safely coexist with that dog or just exist with that dog in a way that, like matches your lifestyle.
Speaker 2:Right Is that? Is that why you think like you hear trainers say that there's no bad dogs, Cause I feel like there are bad dogs. I feel like there are dogs that were bred to fight other dogs.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, there are.
Speaker 2:And it's like no, it's not the dog, it's the like, the owner.
Speaker 1:Well, I don't like that.
Speaker 2:I personally disagree with it.
Speaker 1:I disagree with that too. And I think I hate that though. Like I don't know, somebody comes to you with like a super aggressive dog and then the owner like guilt them into like well, it's your handling. It's like it's not your handling. Like this, you a stable dog, you can grab a stable dog and it's not going to bite you, Right, no matter your handling skills.
Speaker 2:Right, and there's certain dogs that will turn on you and they'll freaking, they'll bite you and that's not a good dog. And so I do have a problem when people say no bad dogs, but I think they probably come from the um the point of view of it's not a bad dog in the sense of if you just knew how to handle it the right way, it would be a good dog, and it's like well, shoot, that's cool, but not everybody can do that, not you know. So I do feel for for owners sometimes, because they hear trainers say things like this and then they feel like crap, like like I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1:I'm not doing like it.
Speaker 2:It's on me and it's like no, it's, it's not on you. That dog is actually not a very good dog, like he's an asshole, you know? Yes, and so yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we had a little like I don't even want to say incident, but one of my trainers and this was before she started working for me she had a German shepherd. This German shepherd bit like three people and she lived with her parents and so her parents were like I'm not going to live with this dog that keeps trying to bite me. You need to, you know, find it a home. You need to get rid of it. You need to like do something with this dog. It can't live here, it you can't like live in fear in your own house of your kids dog like biting you. So she ended up, um, she was like on Tik Tok and posted like hey, I have to, you know, re-home my dog. A trainer ended up taking the dog and then was bashing my trainer about like there's nothing wrong with this dog, this is your handling skills, like just kind of like blaming her for everything, whereas in my eyes I think she did the responsible thing because she's not willing to like put people at risk over the life of this dog.
Speaker 1:Right but when you speak to a less experienced trainers, I find that they put so much blame on owners who are struggling with these types of dogs, and I even used to be that way too Kind of the like save all the dogs mentality you know that was you briefly, I got.
Speaker 1:I have like a behavioral dog that I took in because it was going to get put down and one of my trainers was like Meg, please I'll help you train it, but I still have the dog, um, but like she's a high risk dog right. You know, and at first, when I got the dog, I was like, oh, this is the owners fault, like blah blah, blah blah. It's not the owner's fault.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:They didn't know what they were doing. Nobody knows what to do with, like this type of dog. So she got a lot of bites. You know, she got a lot of experience biting people and by the time that I got her she was like oh, I'm really good at this. Like when I don't want to do something, like I'm going to fucking bite you.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And so for a while I was kind of like blaming the owners of, like this is their fault, you know, like they were just going to, you know, give up on this dog and put this dog down. And then I became more experienced and I had this dog and I was like it's not the owner's fault, like genetically, this dog is not a safe dog.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And it's not fair to like put that blame on the owners, especially like me as a dog trainer who's like pretty skilled in handling like different types of dogs. Like the average owner is not going to know what to do and, at the end of the day, if you have a genetically stable dog, that's never going to be an issue.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know, I think the larger issue is like there's so many unstable dogs out there and this kind of like save all the dog's mentality is like putting these dogs in people's homes that they like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I could, it's definitely a problem?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's definitely a problem, and I mean it could be one bad experience with the dog and he reacted or she reacted a certain way, and that could literally be it. And then from there on, you have like an issue. I had a client and a long ago, maybe three weeks ago, well, she met up with one of my trainers and she was like I just want to like. So she went to like four different trainers and she came and she wants to be able to hand the leash off to somebody and the dog not react, you know, and I'm like all right, well, let me see what you do, how you interacted the dog. She literally had the dog laying next to us. It was three of us. The dog didn't care about us, didn't? And I'm like so what's, what's the issue?
Speaker 2:She's like well, that when I hand them over to somebody, he reacts. So I'm like all right, so I play with them a little bit, I eventually grab the leash, I don't correct him, I don't do anything, and the dog doesn't react right, and I'm like so what triggers it? She's like well, usually if they try to like correct him, I'm like are they correcting him on a prong? Yes, so that could literally be a cue for the dog to react a certain way. I'm like so I'm not gonna do that, but I want you to see I'm like well, I don't want to see. I was like so.
Speaker 1:Let's not practice this behavior anymore.
Speaker 2:I'm not gonna do that. I was like what? What is the main reason that you want to hand the dog over to other people? She was like, well, like, if I want to board him, I was like easy, I was like you put him in the crate, I'll take him out when you're not around, you know, and we're gonna be good. I'm not gonna be dealing with this issue with this dog.
Speaker 2:I know that I could see the dog doesn't have an aggression issue. It's just has certain triggers that if we know how to you know, manage him, I think he'd be fine. But many trainers what they do is they want to show the owner like not, I could do this right now, I could fix this for you right now, and then they just create a bigger hole. It's like why are we gonna do that? Why don't we have a build a relationship with the dog, where then, if I do correct the dog, he understands that there's a relationship there, instead of me in the first session grabbing his leash and Giving him a correction for Whatever reason yeah it just didn't make any sense to me and after I was like, yeah, like I'm not gonna mess with it, keep messing with this dog.
Speaker 2:Like first of all, I build aggression on a prong collar with dogs for protection, yeah, I was like we use a slip lead or something on this dog, we're not gonna use a prong collar and you can leave him with us. I was like I feel very confident with this, with us being able to handle this dog, you know. And so I do feel like sometimes we make problems a little bit worse. Then then what they are oh, I completely agree.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but and train. I don't know what it is about trainers. You know that we I mean we, I guess, I don't know there's maybe a little bit of ego there that we want to show so bad that we sometimes make things a little bit worse. Yeah and so, anyways, I don't know what.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it just kind of goes back to the mentality of like you have so much more or we think we have so much more control in like a dog's behavior than we really do. So like experienced trainers, you know you've been doing this for seven years. You've worked. I'm sure thousands of dogs like you know that like pushing that dog in that moment Is it's not gonna be worth it you know, and I have that conversation with owners all the time, like they'll, they'll be like, oh, but my dog still, you know, does this.
Speaker 1:And I'm like do you remember what your dog was like before? It's okay, you know. Like I have a client who had Like German Shepherd, dutch Shepherd mix, super, super reactive, just like, exploding at the leash anytime it saw a dog. It came to us for like a four week board and train. By the end of it we could like walk past dogs. But she was like reached back out to me and she's like you know, he, he kind of like growls a little bit sometimes and I'm like let him growl, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm like what's wrong with that? Like let's like, do you remember you couldn't walk down the street before? Like let him growl, you know, like don't correct him for that. And like maybe it's just too because of like the internet. There's this like Perfectionism that comes from like training dogs. So now I'm getting a lot of owners who are almost doing too much. I'm like where did you get all of this information? Like what are you doing? Because, like I don't even do that with my dogs. Like really what I want? I want confident, stable dogs. I don't care that you're perfectly obedient. I don't care that. Like you have your little quirks. Maybe you bark every now and then. Like I don't care about those things. Like, are you confident, are you stable and can you make good decisions?
Speaker 1:Yep you know like that's what I want from my dogs. But one thing that I'm seeing a lot of with the clients that are coming to us is Everybody gets really hung up on like what their dog can do like behaviors. Yes, yeah, tricks, mm-hmm, it's tricks and you know they want this like 20-yard down stay and just like all of these, just crazy things. And I'm like I Guess like why, why? Why do you want that? You?
Speaker 1:know like what's, what's the end goal of all of these kind of like trick training with your dog?
Speaker 2:So I do have a bit of a thing with this, because you know now that I have a you know, fair amount of trick. I have, you know, at least 10 trainers and when I, when I see the dog, I go okay, like you're in a training session. There's certain cues that you give the dog where he understands he's in a training session. But you're not gonna be able to Move this, the way this looks right now to this owner, because that's not how they operate. Yes, how do they operate? Yes, how do how do they manage dog? How are they gonna be dealing with this dog? Right? So I'm like what good is it if my dog, if I call him to heal, he comes to heal, if I turn that down, he does a fast down, he does all this stuff, if I can't even walk him past another dog, because that is the stem, like the problem because, like mentally, mentally he's not there.
Speaker 2:So he's not gonna be able to do all this cool stuff that you taught over here if he can't even get past that. And so to me I'm like, forget the the session. I'm like how, like set up your Playtime with when he's with other dogs into, do you do three recalls and he gets paid where he make you, make him a believer that he is gonna get paid every time he comes. Yeah, but not in a session where you put him on a down.
Speaker 1:You know, training session? Yeah, boom, boom, boom. We do all things and then you go back away.
Speaker 2:That's not gonna work Like that's. I was not gonna translate. It might get a little better than what the dog was before, but it's definitely not gonna translate into what how the owner is gonna be dealing with the dog. Because, first of all, they don't have the cute, the body movements that you have as a trainer already they don't have that. So we have to figure out and I tell them all the time like how do they interact with the dog? A 70 year old lady is gonna be completely different than a 25 year old girl and how they interact with their dogs. If they're into the training, then we could go a different route with the 25 year old, but a 70 year old is not gonna be able to do certain things that the 25 year old can do, how they Run or do something. So to me is just like we really have to look at the big picture of the owner.
Speaker 2:That's the main thing right there.
Speaker 1:Yes, for sure, and I get a lot of dogs that have been to training programs that are like that. And the dogs know all the things. They're very good at being told what to do, but, like, how do they function when they're not in command? That's a big thing. So a Few of my trainers have, you know, worked at other facilities. They've worked with other trainers before, and when they come to me they're all like this. They're like what are we doing? I'm like you need to do nothing, like we. We have to teach these dogs how to do nothing because, like, they've never been taught this and the dogs are the same way. They're like what are we doing?
Speaker 1:They're just like waiting for their command, and my trainers are the same way. So I have to like mold them into like, honestly, sometimes doing less is more, especially with the dogs that we're getting, because owners are really good at teaching all the things they're teaching, like the skills they're like my dog knows sit and down and stay and blah blah blah, but like is your dog stable enough to just like hang out and lay with you at a restaurant?
Speaker 2:right.
Speaker 1:No, they're not, because you're constantly like feeding them, like yes, yes, yes, like what happens when you're not doing that over a Journalizing the dogs yeah. Yes, yeah, I'm getting a lot of dogs that are like that of, like it's so silly, just like regular showline goldens that have turned into these like Dry v working dog, and I tell my clients I'm like you raised a really good working dog.
Speaker 2:Yeah like not a very good pet dog right, no, and I mean it's, it's cool, I like that people are getting into it, but I think that you know they're missing. They're missing a picture that they don't see, like you know, because there's a lot of videos now of dog trainers on tick tock and all that, and literally you watch one video and from there you're gonna get 30 other videos because the algorithms are just gonna hit you with them. Yeah it looks cool on video.
Speaker 1:But it's like two minutes. But you also have to teach the dog the off switch.
Speaker 2:Thousand percent is not the most important.
Speaker 1:It's not fun to watch on the internet the best training that I've.
Speaker 2:That I've seen is Literally the most boring training. But for me it was like that, was it like literally, how do you even deliver a piece of food? Because some people will be like, yeah, I'm gonna pay the dog for being calm, but you're gonna pay him with a yes and you're gonna just like. It's like no, even the way you say that you're already you know oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Putting the dog in a wrong state of mind. So even if you said, yes, how are you gonna deliver the piece of food? You know what kind of food are you gonna deliver, like, is it gonna? So people need to look at the big picture, not just at what they think. Oh, I'm just gonna be rewarding the dog for that, yeah, but you're rewarding and the dog is probably popping out of the place or running towards you and all of a sudden, instead of having a calm, relaxed dog, you're gonna have a dog that's like always looking at you like a freaking crack at it, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:So anyways, yeah yeah, that's one thing that I am really trying to like emphasize with my trainers, is they? It's so silly Like they all train the same way, like before they started working with me, and I'm like where, where are you all learning All of this like that? Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, and I'm like this is not, like this does not transfer to owners and I feel like my Like background has been so owner focused, because I started off as like a dog walker and like being in people's homes, so like I know what owners keep up with right you know, and they're not gonna be like, yes, Like your dog is literally never going to hear that sound outside of this training session with you.
Speaker 1:So don't make it. And I tell my trainers like stop talking. Yeah, stop talking. Like you literally don't have to talk to the dog and I don't a lot of time like I'm very quiet when I'm training dogs and the dogs that I get are very Like reactive neurotic, you know. So I do want to meet them with like that calm energy that's gonna kind of like slow them down. You know I'm not building up these like super dry V dogs.
Speaker 1:So it's a little bit different. But yeah, even with my trainers, I'm like why are we all doing the exact same stuff? And I think it's mostly just coming from like social media a thousand percent. That's what does well on social media is these like really dry V obedient dogs and you're like, wow, that's cool, but you're not seeing the other half of that equation, which is, hopefully the trainers are teaching, you know, the dogs to chill and have that off switch for not just like themselves, but the dog as well right because I've met some neurotic dogs that don't have an off switch and it's honestly like sad to see that they have to exist like I mean it really.
Speaker 2:I mean people don't realize how bad it is. Like my dog wop, oh, my older dog. If he's alone in the yard he's like chilled out and as soon as I walk out he'll like grab his freaking Jolly Ball like Just like smashing, like bring it to me and like want to play, and I'm just like brah, I just want to hang out with you.
Speaker 2:And now, the only time where he's like relaxes on our drives, in our drives he's cool because he has never experienced any play there. Yeah, you know, he has never experienced any. You know Any high drive in in the vehicle, so there he'll relax. But other than that, like if I'm in the yard and he sees me, he's like what are we gonna do?
Speaker 1:What are we gonna do?
Speaker 2:What are we gonna do? And yeah, it's not a way to live, you know, yeah, he he's super. He gets agitated. Like if I have a ball and I just put it out there and I put him on it down, he'll get agitated just looking at it. He'll start breathing heavy and doing all that. And you know, now, with my, my other dogs that I've had, I'm like no, I'm gonna teach them that off switch, like we're gonna play, and then I'm gonna Put you on a down and you're gonna relax for 15 minutes Until you're calm, and then maybe I'll take you on a walk, maybe play with you again a little bit, but I want you to be to learn the skill of doing nothing.
Speaker 2:Yeah you know that that's a skill that every dog must learn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm also. I'm kind of like one of the hated dog trainers on tick tock because I talk about like correcting dogs. Right but the reason that I do talk about correcting dog is dogs is because I feel like that's another part of the equation that a lot of owners are missing out on is being able to tell their dogs no in a meaningful way.
Speaker 1:So you know, let's say I have a reactive dog and I asked the owner what are you doing when your dog is being reactive? Like what do you say? What do you do? Do you move? Do you ask them to sit? Like what do you do? Well, we tell them no, okay. Well, how does your dog know what that word means?
Speaker 2:All right. Yep.
Speaker 1:I don't know. Yeah so how do you kind of communicate that part to your owners? You know, because I think On social media it's a lot about like what we can teach our dogs and you know, getting them working for food or toys or whatever. But a large part of dog training Is being able to tell your dogs no, and you know, communicate like I want you to do this but I also don't want you to do this right, so I do so.
Speaker 2:I'll go back to one of my trainers. Recently I was in Mexico and I received a bad review and I was like, all right now, when I get them, I'm like this is an opportunity to fix something. Yeah whatever we did wrong, we're gonna do it make it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah so I, you know, when I get back I I contact the owner and I go, hey, uh, can I go check out the dog? I was like you could leave your review there. I don't care, I'm not telling you, you know, I just want to make sure that I do my part Into trying to fix this. So she goes, yeah for sure, come, come out. She's like I, you know, I'm really glad to hear from you. So, yeah, come out. I go over there and I check out the dog. The dog is just like all over the place and the first thing I do is I go no, and I reach down and I correct the dog a little bit and after that the dog did Everything like the. The trainer actually did a very good job at training the dog. He did not do a good job at Translating you know, translated over to the owner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now, when I told her, I said, all right, let's go. Then we were working. I'm like, uh, correct the dog. And I could tell that her correction and her no marker Didn't mean anything to the dog. So I said, okay, cool, I need to figure this out.
Speaker 2:I was like and then I forgot what we were doing that I noticed that she kind of walked into the dog a little bit and he took that as pressure. He, she didn't even touch him, but she walked towards him a little bit and he was like, oh, shoot, I was like that is your correction. Forget the leash pop, forget everything. That is your correction. Did you see that? She was like no, I was like. I was like what you did? You, you, you know, gave him a little bit of spatial pressure and he after that, he was, he was good. I was like so let's, let's do that. So I was like we're gonna work on a couple behaviors and that's how you're gonna correct the dog, because the leash didn't, he didn't. He took it as like it was fun. Yeah, not when I did it, but when she did it.
Speaker 1:Yeah so.
Speaker 2:So as trainers, we, or as owners, even you got to figure out what type of correction is gonna work for you. Now, when we say correction, or you know, people always think that or punishment, people see it as, oh, they're gonna hurt the dog. No, yeah, literally it could be you sprain the dog or you literally just taking a step into the dog.
Speaker 2:Taking a step into the dog, not moving forward. You know that is a correction for the dog and the dogs like us. We need to understand. They need to understand you know what we like and what we don't like. Like you know what I'm saying. Like If you could communicate with your dog, hey, I don't like you doing that, but hey, I like you doing that. It's just gonna make life so much easier for your dog instead of us trying to teach oh, I don't want my dog to do that, so I'm gonna teach these, these other behaviors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's like why, when it could just be so easy to let your dog know, like that is not cool, and if you have a word for it that you have now paired with that, now you can use that to your advantage, you know, um, I personally feel it's one of the most important things, and so when I, when I drop off so one of the problems that the trainer did when he dropped off this dog was he had her still using a lot of food instead of him just being a good and a no, that's all I want. Yeah, the dog does good. You could say good, or you could say nothing, or, but if the dog is doing bad, I want you to say no and mark it and let the dog know it's not supposed to be doing that, right? So so, yeah, I think to me it's the most important thing.
Speaker 1:I kind of use food as just like teaching behaviors, because I have found that, um, I don't know, owners get really concerned about correcting their dogs Incorrectly or, like you know, dialing too high on the e-caller or things like that. I find that people don't really mess that up. What people mess up is rewards and if you have a dog who's just constantly looking to your hands, like I think that that is so much worse than just like not using food. So as, like Trainers in our program, we use food and we build up like food drive to For us to do the training, for us to do those active training, teach the skills, maybe work the dog through, you know, reactivity.
Speaker 1:But as far as like owners go, I'm not really having owners do too much food stuff unless it's like a puppy. You know, puppy owners are really the only ones that I'm like this is our marker word. Good, we say the word and then we reach into our treat pouch and then we deliver. But I feel like when you You're giving me the look, but I feel like when you put too much training on the owners, it's just, it's just like way too much. You know, we've got like food and marker words and blah, blah, blah blah. Like it's just, it's overwhelming to them and, at the end of the day, like the best training is the training that's sustainable for the owners.
Speaker 2:Yep, yeah, I was that guy. I mean especially because when we were, when I was starting, uh, michael Ellis videos were like coming out right, so I came in, I came up in that in that era and you know, and I was big time into like you got to make them give the marker the right way, and I would talk about other trainers that weren't doing it the right way.
Speaker 1:How dare they not yeah?
Speaker 2:you know what, and and now that you know, I just feel like people have been training Without even realizing it, with markers and everything for Well, you're marking.
Speaker 1:You just might not know like what the marker that you're using is.
Speaker 2:But dogs are a lot smarter than we think where they figure things out. You know what I'm saying. So the whole marker system thing, I love it, I, you know for me, I use it, but definitely like you're I when it comes to pet owners, like pre-mack, everything like if you don't want your dog to run out the door, we put a leash on them, we hold them back, we open the door. You can't come out until you touch them on his side and he can go out. You stay consistent with that. Or when you come in, you tether him, you know, to something. You just hang out, you don't say anything.
Speaker 2:The dog is going to fall into these. You know patterns right away. If you have this structure, he's going to take over that structure and you're not going to have any problems. I personally don't think the whole food thing and marker thing is very necessary for a pet dog. I haven't used much with my golden doodle and I think he's pretty good, you know. But and we over-adrenalized dogs, like you said, when we are using a lot of food and I think it's more for us, it makes us feel good.
Speaker 1:Don't you think it's very trendy right now? Like don't you see that like everybody's kind of training dogs the same way and they're like really hung up on like marker words and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean. Well, I mean we got things like TikTok, like I said, and you know, and Instagram and everything that you know. It looks cool, it looks fun. They're having a good time, which I welcome. Pet dog training is not fun.
Speaker 1:No, it's so boring yeah.
Speaker 2:So so you know, I I definitely see why people like it. The dogs look like they're having a good time, the owner is having a good time. I welcome it. I think that people that are into that you know they have, they have a good relationship with the dog, but I definitely feel that they're missing a piece, which is that boring piece, because nobody's going to watch a TikTok live where you're just, the dog is just laying there. You know what I'm saying. They're going to watch it where you're teaching all these, all these different things. So that's just where we're at right now, which I don't know. I welcome it. I, I, I'm good if more clients for us. So exactly.
Speaker 1:It's all good job, job security. I had a one of my friends, clayton. He was recently on the podcast. Some girl posted I'm not on Facebook because I can't handle the like a dog trainer Facebook community. It's just too much for me. But some girl posted like dog trainers who don't use marker words, like red flag, red flag. And he like commented and was like this is dumb, like this is just like. Obviously you know you're not very experienced. Like we're marking behaviors all the time, whether you're using, you know, the marker word good and yes, like it's just what is the Q to the dog? Is it you like smiling at the dog? Is it you you know petting the dog? Like owners are really good at marking and rewarding. They don't need a marker word. And you know, as you become more experienced in the dog training industry, you realize that and it just kind of becomes more like owner focused.
Speaker 2:Right. I think that definitely. I don't know what it is about dog, dog training and dog trainers. That, you know, makes people feel a certain way Like I'm probably going to get some some crap for this, but like one of my favorite people, well you know, especially when I was starting with Cesar Milan. I know people don't like I love Cesar Milan Let me ask you this how many trainers today?
Speaker 1:none of us would have jobs if it weren't for not just that, but how many trainers?
Speaker 2:today can be, can walk 65 dogs off leash in downtown LA. Off leash downtown LA, and the dogs just follow him. I don't know, I can't name any. I don't know who's doing that, I don't think anybody's doing that, and so people always talk crap about him, right, because of some TV show. But it's like you don't see it. Like, do you not see how this guy is like interacting with these dogs? Like so I don't know, I just, but he's not the coolest. Like he's not, he's not the cool thing to be. You know what I'm saying? He doesn't use markers, he doesn't do it. It's like nah, I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't care about that. Like look at the dogs, yeah, look how he interacts with.
Speaker 2:Like again, to me that's what I base it off Like I could barely even do two dogs, you know what I'm saying. Like this guy had 65 dogs loose, like off leash, in the downtown LA, and so I always get crap from people like, oh, but he's has an E-calleron. Oh, but it's like, yeah, but you're working out like in the woods somewhere with no distractions at all, and I'm just like you know it's different. You know different worlds we live in or whatever. But for me, when it comes to like you know trainers that you know Cesar Milan. I think he's one of the top trainers and if for sure, if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't be where I'm at today.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's just yeah. Anyways, I'll throw that in there.
Speaker 1:No, I mean I, I completely agree with you and he doesn't use markers. He doesn't use marker. Markers, he's not. I mean, does he use a lot of food and training? I don't think so.
Speaker 2:I think like a little bit, but I would probably say he, he does it here and there, but I I mean I don't know his exact methodology or whatever system outside of what I've seen, but I don't think he you know?
Speaker 1:do you know who organ tails is?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Okay, I really like them and they're kind of in the same camp there's. They have like a big property and basically they do like day training. They have kind of the same situation of, like you know, 65 dogs, all of them lined up like walking at heel with them. They don't use food, they don't use e-collars, they don't use prom colors. They literally just use like a slip lead type of leash with like the figure around the nose.
Speaker 1:They essentially train the dogs like how people train horses. You know they're not using marker words, they're not like using food and all of this stuff. And when I first started training I wasn't real big on food because I was I was taking on like some pretty severe behavioral mod dogs that I probably shouldn't have been taking on, but I was able to work with them because I wasn't shoving food in their face or you know, yes, and like bringing all of this energy. So it like worked out well for me. And I find that you know, cesar, cesar Milano, is kind of in the same camp and like organ tails, like you look at these dogs and you can't tell me that these people don't know what they're doing right.
Speaker 1:You know, but like you could argue, well, they're not using like positive reinforcement, they're not using food, they're not using affection or toys or play or any of these things. Are not talking about like drive states and all of this stuff, but like look at the dogs you know?
Speaker 2:yeah, I mean, when it comes to everything. Now that's what I base it off of. Look at the dogs, look at the reviews. Whatever they're doing is working over there. I don't you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because there's like a million, there's a million ways to train dogs.
Speaker 2:And again, I, you know, yeah, that's not my style of training, but I definitely am not against, you know, being there and learning what they're doing, just so I could keep getting better, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, for sure. So we are in your new facility. Yeah it's pretty sweet.
Speaker 2:Thank you. So, my wife and I, we were running elevated out of our home right and yeah, I can't relate.
Speaker 2:That just became a little too much for us and you know, especially when I was at work and I had one employee and you know dogs would be barking at four in the morning while I was on my drive, and you know it just got bad and it was always something that we wanted. Like you know, we want to have a spot, but I didn't want a spot where we have to hold a bunch of dogs. So this isn't going to be like a boarding place or anything like that, but this is just a place where I could create a culture of people that want to work their dogs. So I'll be doing private classes here and you know, probably some group classes outside and you know we'll be hanging out. And then you know, my wife my wife and I started a underdog which is our. You know our brand of dog toys and vest and aprons, and so we'll be running that out of here.
Speaker 1:So I'm excited You're building a brand.
Speaker 2:We're trying.
Speaker 1:That's super cool and that is like another thing. That's just a full time job.
Speaker 2:I'm learning because I'm also you know working on that, so if you know how, and then you know replying to emails and doing all that, like, yeah, she puts in a lot of work for sure when it comes to the underdog stuff.
Speaker 1:So are you both like full time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, she's a full time mom and then she runs underdog. So so, yeah, definitely, and then I just kind of, I train dogs, I manage, I put out fires here and there and that's about it, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what's kind of your like goal with this space?
Speaker 2:You know what I wish? I had a clear, exact view of what I wanted. Yeah, only thing I could say is that I want to outgrow it, and that's where I'm at right now. I guess we'll figure out as we go. I love that, I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm extremely jealous. I love this space. I'm going to have to go find one in Orlando that's similar to this, but this is super cool. He has like a loft upstairs and then plenty of space to work dogs.
Speaker 2:This is honestly like it's a pretty set up. Yeah, it's not huge but you know it's, I think it's going to work.
Speaker 1:I don't think I would want anything that big.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, and I couldn't yeah, I didn't want to spend too much either, so this worked out great.
Speaker 1:No, it's perfect. So you've had your business for seven years. You just got the space. You've been running things out of your house up until then, or did you have a space before this?
Speaker 2:So we have a field. We have a training field in Carson, which is a little further out than I wish it was, so I have to travel there, you know drive in LA. How far is that? It's about an hour away, but without traffic, I mean without traffic, it's about an hour away. So you know how that goes. But so we have that field there and all of our trainers go there with our, with their clients, and they do their private lessons there, and all that.
Speaker 1:You're spoiled to be in California because it's like hot as butt in Florida and I can't.
Speaker 2:I know everybody's like oh, when are you going to move out of California? And I'm like you know what, I kind of like it. So I mean we'll see, maybe at some point, but I kind of like California.
Speaker 1:I like it too. I'm ready to move out here. Somebody's going to have to drag me back to Florida.
Speaker 2:And there's dogs for everybody.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's crazy over here, Will knows.
Speaker 1:Damn, there might be an everyday trainer over here. Yeah, all right, oscar. Well, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you for having me In your space.
Speaker 1:This is so sick, and thanks so much for sitting down and talking with me all about dog training. You got a lot of good things going on and, honestly, I can't wait to see Appreciate it. See what the future looks like for you. Is there anything, anything you want to add.
Speaker 2:Um no, I mean, if you guys you get a chance, make sure you guys check out. We have a podcast as well. Elevated Canine podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, plug, plug all your things. We're going to find you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my Instagram at Oscar Mora canines. Youtube at Oscar Mora canines.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're on YouTube.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's not big, we're just trying to do something. I need to do YouTube. Yeah, we're not that big yet, but anyways. And then at Elevated Canine Academy is our, our business, and a underdog, undr DOG on Instagram as well. And yeah, that's about it. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Go, follow him, check him out, and we will see you all next week.