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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
Crafting Calmness and Independence in our Canine Companions with Canyons Canine's Andrea
Gather 'round, fellow dog devotees, as I, Meg, your resident canine connoisseur, alongside fellow crazy dog lady Andrea, clink margarita glasses and spill the kibble on all things dog training. We're not just talking sit and stay — we're venturing into the heart of creating harmony between humans and their hounds. From Andrea's leap from veterinary assistant to dog trainer extraordinaire, we share tales of tail-wagging transformations and the essential elements of safety and connection that make for a well-balanced pup.
Ever felt like juggling a professional image on social media with the chaos of real life is akin to a balancing act worthy of Cirque du Soleil? Andrea and I lay bare the complexities of this digital tightrope walk, discussing the pressures that come with being in the constant gaze of an online audience. Navigating the waters of content creation, we dwell on the significance of authenticity and the courage to share genuine slices of life, even when the temptation to retreat is strong.
Our conversation meanders through the philosophical terrain of training, shining a light on the pivotal role of calmness and independence in a dog's world. We advocate for a ribbon of trust and mutual respect to be woven into the leash of every walk and the need for thoughtful rewards and attention to cultivate an unspoken language with our four-legged friends. So grab your beverage of choice, cozy up, and join us for a heartfelt homage to the dogs that leave paw prints on our hearts and the journey of nurturing the bonds that last a lifetime.
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Andrea Isabell
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Hello and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. Today I'm joined by the lovely Andrea Andrea. Andrea, andrea, see, I already fucked it up. Good so good. I'm Canyon's K9s. We've had too much to drink already. I already can't speak.
Speaker 1:This is going to be a good episode. We're talking about all the dog trainer stuff. You guys know the drill Grab yourself a tasty drink and meet us back here. Hello, hello, hello, hello, welcome. Thank you for having me, thank you for coming to Salt Lake City, thank you for having me in your home and giving me alcohol before the podcast. Happy to. So.
Speaker 1:Our tasty drink of choice today is what did you make us? It's a margarita Margarita. We love it. We love tequila. I feel like every time I drink on this podcast it's always tequila, so this is now like my designated drink of choice.
Speaker 1:Alright, let's go ahead and jump into how I keep messing up your name. Let's tell the people. She'll tell the people. My name is Andrea, andrea, Andrea. There's three ways to say it. There's Andrea, there's Andrea, and I got the most complicated way. It's Andrea. It really like messes with my brain. For no reason. It's because it's both of them combined. It's not like the Andrea, but you have the hard E, but not the hard A, soft A, hard E, soft A. I'm from St Louis and everything is like that. Oh, yeah, that's why it's genetic. Yeah, that's why. That's why, that's why it's definitely not Claim it on the genetics. Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we are filming this episode in your home. Welcome, yeah, I love it. It's very cozy, thank you. You have all your little animals. Yeah, introduce us to your dogs. And you have three cats. I have three cats. Okay, crazy animal lady. We love it. We've got all the animals. We've got Cheez-It, and he's obviously an orange cat. We have Squid, who's a black cat, and then Jedi, who is super nervous. So you've not seen him. Okay, I was going to say He'll come out in like the middle of the podcast, probably like creeping by. He's like don't look at me.
Speaker 1:And then we have Piper, my OG. She just opened her eyes. She's like you're talking about me. The queen, the queen B of the house, the no roles girl. So cute, she is so cute. She's a good girl. Hold it. She's 10. She's living life. She's doing what she loves, which is, you know, being pushy and smacking you to give you. Bossing me around, bossing me around, yelling at me Putting your paw, yelling at her paw, puttin' me food, yelling at me for pets.
Speaker 1:Probably the most well-known dog of mine is Panda, my cattle dog, who she's a whole vibe, she's my redneck Malinois. I love it, she's a lot of fun. And then I have Stan, who is my foster fail that I got from Sherry Lucas. I've had him for a year now, and then I have a foster dog, obi. So I have four in my pack right now. You are also a crazy dog lady. Yes, I am. I love it. I'm proud of it. I love it, yeah.
Speaker 1:So first things first. I kind of want to get into, like, your background. I always like to ask people like how they got into dog training. So you have a killer dog training business here in Salt Lake City, utah. And, yeah, I want to hear kind of your backstory, how you got into the dog training world and how you got to where you are today. The origin story, the origin story, yeah.
Speaker 1:So before I had children, I was a veterinary assistant, so I got to handle tons of dogs. I wanted to be a veterinarian when I was a child and that just when I became an adult seemed like an unrealistic avenue. So, yeah, I worked in the veterinary field as an assistant for a while and then I had my babies and then I got into dog walking, which we talked about is like our favorite way of getting into this world, very underrated, very underrated. I think more people should get involved, like people who want to be dog trainers. Start walking dogs. Like I think it's the best way. Get your hands on lots of dogs, talk to lots of people. So dog walking turned into dog sitting and then that turned into pack walking and then that turned into dog training with a company out of Philadelphia. So I've been in the industry for about 10 years professionally training for about six. Nice, yeah, so how did you learn the most when you were walking dogs? Well, what not to do?
Speaker 1:One of the big takeaways I think as a dog walker was the, you know, coming into the home when no one was home. Yeah, and you know you have access to their house and their dog is free ranging. And as a you know, I'm just trying to start my business and getting clients not having a lot of clear criteria of like, what's my ideal client or the dog that I'm walking and walking into a house that the dog is like super defensive and barking at me and I'm like I feel like you should be in a crate. Something needs to change here. Not really sure what. Something doesn't feel right. Nothing, nothing bad ever happened, but lots of good conversations with people that were open and like, oh, yeah, we can create our dog. I'm like, oh, I just had to ask. You know, sometimes you just need to ask like could you make this environment a little bit more safe for me to come into your home when your dog is like defending your dog? Yeah, when your dog wants to like eat me as I like walking in the house, your great day in there. That could fit my head in its mouth. So, you know, I've I've been very fortunate and have not had any really negative experiences.
Speaker 1:So I think the biggest takeaway was again learning like what not to do. You know, having the dogs dragging me down the street, it's like this doesn't feel good. Yeah, you know, I can't feel my elbow anymore, you know. So, learning how to walk them and teach them leash work, and a lot of it was like learning on the job. And then the owners were like oh, how, you know, I'm sending them video of their dogs and updates and they were like oh, how did you do that, you magician, you magician. So that turned into showing them what I was doing and that led me into the passion for training of. Like you know, this is really more about your relationship with your human, my relationship with your dog. I want, I want you to have what I've been able to access from your dog over a very short period of time. It doesn't take too much, just a little bit of modifications with how you, how you, approach the leash. Yeah, and we sort of got into dog training in the same way Like that's how I got into it is I started walking dogs and I think I think it's one of the best ways to kind of get into the dog training industry because of how owner focused walking dogs is.
Speaker 1:You're typically there very consistently, if not every day. You see how the people are living with their dogs. You interact with the clients, like you have a very close relationship with them. You know how they're interacting with their own dogs and so you're like huh, you see, like all of the correlations between, like these dogs that have these behavioral issues. You know the owners are doing X, y and Z. She's it. She wants to say hi, she's it. I'm making this. I love you.
Speaker 1:He's the golden retriever of cats. He's massive, he is. I don't know what he is, but I think he has like main coon and him or something. He's a big boy. Yeah, he has to. Yeah, he's so cute. I love him. He's like a box. I must sit in this.
Speaker 1:So, anyways, what was kind of like a big takeaway for you that you wanted to make the transition from Walker to trainer, like I know, for me one thing that I kind of like struggled with with my clients was they were almost kind of treating me like the help. Yes, you know, they're like you're just a dog walker, like shut up and walk my dog and I'm like I just want to help you. You know, I remember feeling that like it felt a little bit like you know, like it's still a service industry but it's not regarded the same way as as a trainer oh, not at all. And the relationship aspect of it, of like seeing the human interacting with the dog and learning how to communicate with the human, like that's where my passion started to grow, like I wanted to help them so they could help their dog. I wanted them to have what I could access with their dog in that short period of time. So I think that's what sealed the deal for me of like I really want to do more and get into training.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I actually have a kind of funny story how I got actually, like how the door opened into training for myself. I had a cattle dog who's no longer with me. Her name was Bindi. We were in tractor supply store and cattle dogs are super aloof. They're like I don't really, they don't want to say hi to people. And she actually kind of pulled me toward a person that was in an aisle and I was like this is bizarre, like you never want to say hi to people, but I'm going to go with it. And this person was a dog trainer and we're talking I didn't know she was a dog trainer at the time. We're talking about dogs and you know I'm a dog walker and she's like oh, I'm a dog trainer and she ended up inviting me to an event where she was going to be coaching a reactive clinic and here that was like my open door into training. My dog dragged me to this person. I was like okay, thank you, bindi. So that's what opened the door truly to like give me the relationship to build with this company.
Speaker 1:I started as a kennel tech and was shadowing them for a long period of time, took their classes there and then came in to work for them. Nice, yeah, how was your experience working for a facility? It was good. It was good. It was, like, you know, starting up being really open-minded to learning, removing ideals that I had as like oh, I saw this on YouTube and I feel like this is how you train dogs. Yeah, versus, like oh, this is how you train dogs. And I was very black and white-minded at the time. I really wanted to know, like, exactly how to do or exactly how to fix every little thing, and wanted it to be like a blanket, like this is how it works for all the dogs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was like such an eye-opening wake-up call to see that it wasn't at all like that. It wasn't at all like that. So I think the greatest experience was like I worked as a kennel tech and took care of the boarding dogs and got lots of experience with lots of different types of dogs and got to shadow a lot of the classes and a lot of the training and learned.
Speaker 1:It's like it's a lot more like an art form, like free flow, like riffing, than it is about black and white answers. Yeah, and we were just talking about that, about how, like you know, new dog trainers want like these black and white, like, oh, this is what you do with this sort of thing. Or even when you're talking to owners too, you're they're like, well, you know, my dog is doing this, what is the solution to this? And you're like, oh, it depends, it depends, you know. And that's like the dog trainer go to is like, well, it depends. And like, when you're a new trainer, you get like frustrated by that. You're like, what the fuck is this? Yeah, I want the like, the real answer. Give me an answer, you know. But like that is the answer. And as you become more experienced, you're like, oh, I'm transforming into that old dog trainer, it depends, it depends, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and like the best dog trainers out there are the ones who can look at a dog and like, read that dog and be able to decide what that dog needs in the moment. Absolutely, and even the owner dynamic with the dog. Oh, yeah, for sure, absolutely. And that's one thing that I talk about all the time is, like you know, what I would do with a dog isn't what I tell owners to do with a dog, absolutely, because I know what owners are going to do, and that's one thing that I think I'm really good at, and especially from like my background of like walking dogs, and then just kind of like the format of our training. Like we do daily training right, so we're with the owners Monday through Friday for an hour each day. So we get very, very close to them. Like you know, how often do you get to like see somebody every single day? Absolutely, you know, like you can only hide so much. You know, the first couple of sessions you're, like you know, very professional with them. And then, like you show up to their house and they're like, oh, I got coffee, like hold on, let me drink my coffee before I'm like a functioning human being or like I don't know, I see people in their natural state. So I feel like I've been able to kind of learn very quickly, kind of you know what people are doing, what owners are doing and what owners are willing to keep up with, and what owners are willing to do in their training is very different than what maybe I would suggest, like a dog trainer do. Absolutely, you know, the expectations that we might have as dog trainers have to be adjusted Right Like, yeah, these people have other jobs, they're gone through the day, their whole life is not just training, their whole life is just dogs. Absolutely, what a crazy concept.
Speaker 1:Normies, normies, normies, normies. I just used that term the other day with somebody you know like a normie. Yeah, yeah, we're not normie. No, no, I've like given that up so long ago. I'm like, oh fuck, I'm like such a crazy person I can't function in regular society. Have you like hung out with a normie in a in a bit? No, you haven't. I can tell by this response right now. No, I'm like scanning through. I can't, I can't. It's like so unrelatable. No, it's not relatable. My friends are dog trainers and they're the best. Yeah, we're the best. People Got a few scruzeless, got a few scruzeless, but we're a great time. We're a great time. We're a great time. Yeah, I went on to date with somebody like a couple months ago and he was a normie and I was like I can't even talk to you. I don't even know how to like function with people who aren't like training dogs 24 seven. It's so bad. Yeah, oh, my gosh. Um.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that I wanted to talk with you about, when we were kind of talking about before we started recording, is your swan, your swan analogy. Yeah, explain your swan analogy today. So before I came over here, she was like, just so, you know, I'm kind of like going through it a little bit and I feel like I'm a swan. Yeah, the appearance of like, if you, if you picture a swan on the water, it's like graceful and flowing, everything looks fine. Yeah, under the surface, paddling like fucking hell, very relatable, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I want to talk a little bit about that and kind of like I don't know, we're both on social media, which is like a whole whole thing. So we're both on social media and you know there's like the perception of that, like how people perceive us, versus you know like we're running a business and then also like the personal side of things. So you're like, hey, just so you know, like I'm going through this and like I was like no girl, don't worry, I'll tell you my drama and it'll it'll make yours even better. And like here I am bitching about, like you know my, my stupid situation ship and it's like there's always some some stuff kind of going on in the background and I feel like we never really get to like acknowledge that, like you always get to, or you always kind of have to pretend like everything is fine either for social media or for like your business, and it's like, no, we're over here having mental breakdown. We are actually having a mental breakdown right now.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, going through it, going through it. You know, I show up for my clients, I show up on social media, but in the background I'm like I'm going through it right now. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it's not, it's not easy. I won't make you like talk in depth about kind of like you know, like the details of everything, but like what? What are some ways that you kind of you know, handle that, handle the like personal side of things, the social media side of things, the business side of things, like how do you balance it all? Yeah, um, so, learning lesson for myself and I'm a mom, I've got three kids, got three cats and three personal dogs and a foster.
Speaker 1:I've like I think I like the number three. You have a lot, you have a lot, you have a lot, you have a lot. You have a crazy person, you have a crazy girl. I'm a crazy girl, crazy girl, I like crazy. I like crazy. It's like boring. If not like what else would I do Exactly? What else would I be doing? Yeah, so I like to focus on everything but me. It's almost like you like to take care of everybody else. I love to take care of everybody else. It's so much better, right, it's so much better. But when, at the end of the day, everything's taken care of and I stop and I'm like ooh, there's me.
Speaker 1:I want to talk about this because, like, I feel like I'm a little bit in the same position of you as you, like, you obviously have children, so it's a little bit different. He's, he's going to like mix some shit up up here. Um, you have like actual children and like a family to take care of. I have like employees, but the I don't want to say burden, but just kind of like the weight of being the person that always takes care of everybody else. Like you said this probably like three times this is our first time meeting, by the way, and you've already said this about like three times about like, oh, I take care of everybody. You know, I'm that person. I take care of everybody. Nobody needs to take care of me. No one needs to take care of me. Yeah, I take care of me. I take care of myself. No, I then. That's the moral.
Speaker 1:The story is, I have to start taking care of myself. I can't properly show up for everybody else unless I'm taking care of myself. So it's so much better to take care of everybody else, though, let's be real, it's so much better, it's oh, I don't want to say better, but like, no, it's, it's easier, it's easier. This is where, like, the hard work comes in, where, like, at the end of the day, we're like oh, there, I am in the mirror and I got to deal with that. Oh shit, I have to sit with myself. There I am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like talking to her about, like I don't know. She's like you know, I'm just going to go in through it and like I don't want to like be a burden. I was like, girl, like I have had so many mental break, I know I might cry. Yeah, I'm like we, we welcome the mental, the mental breakdowns. But she was like yeah, I need to go on a road trip and sit with my thoughts for nine hours straight. I know you really do. It's like very cathartic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, just kind of like sit with yourself and feel that, because I think so many of us in this industry are kind of in the same position. You know, because it's like, at the end of the day, we're doing animal husbandry, like we're taking care of animals, we're taking care of clients, we're kind of taking care of everybody around us and like who is there to take care of us? Yeah, it's. I mean, at the end of the day, I have to show it for myself. You know it's doing things for myself that are fulfilling. Right Like I really truly look at it like fulfillment of dogs is very important.
Speaker 1:Right, like we want our dogs to have movement, we want them to have exercise, we want them to have exploration and appropriate rest. We need the same things for ourselves. So if I'm grinding all day long and I never prioritize fulfillment for myself, I'm like ugh, I'm not a good person. I actually think, just like loving our dogs by giving them structure boundaries, like I have to love myself by giving myself more structure. So signed up at the gym and signed up for a personal trainer because I need the accountability. So I look at that a lot like I'm a dog trainer and I'm giving my clients some level of personal accountability. Showing up doing the homework, making progress each week I can see if they are or if they aren't. My personal trainer, she like sniffs me and she's like you had chocolate. I'm like, yes, I did, absolutely I did. You called me out, you see it, it's so similar it's crazy. So, yeah, it's been a great outlet for myself to start exercising and eating better. So that's been for me like the thing that's brought me back to a stronger state, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's kind of like you can't, you know, pour from an empty cup. Yeah, and I think that's so normal for, especially like women in this industry, I mean we will, like we will squeeze every last drop out of that empty cup. I mean can relate. I mean I like ran away from my business for a whole. Like what are we a month and a half in? People are like I think I missed something. Like why did you? Why are you traveling across the country? And I'm like I just need to take some time off. Don't mind me Just losing my mind a little bit over here. I've gone in the flight, absolutely by the flight. We are gone, we're out of here, we're in random, random states.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I think it's like very, very common for I say women in the industry because I don't know I think like naturally, we're just kind of like caretakers and, you know, empathetic. Yeah, we want to take care of everybody around us, we want to take care of our clients, we want to take care of the dogs that we train and we definitely kind of like put ourselves on the back burner, yeah. But, like you know, social media doesn't always show that and I feel like sometimes I I'm like very open about like me being a crazy person, having mental breakdowns and all that, all that jazz. But I think, you know, on social media, when you're just like sitting there watching it, it's very like normal to get into the like comparison mode of like oh my God, this person is like doing so much better than me, or even like what you're doing, and I'm like she's so much better than me in like so many ways. You know. But it's like you don't really know, like the behind the scenes. Yeah, I thought that about you too, though no, I mean seriously, it's like I don't know.
Speaker 1:I always think the least of myself. You know, in those moments where I'm like I need to get my shirt together and I need to focus on myself, when I have those like weak moments of like look at all these people doing so much better than me and like ugh. Honestly, instagram is the worst comparison thing. I am not really a social media person in that I don't like consume a lot of social media, but I have to say like, probably in the past week and just because I've been like you know, to be fully transparent like a little more lonely, I've like been traveling alone by myself, so I'm like, oh, I just find myself like on Instagram more.
Speaker 1:I think Instagram is truly the worst for comparison. Yeah, the worst, and not just in like the dog training sense. But I don't know, I kind of come from like the fitness industry and so I have like all of these fitness people that I follow and I'm like, oh my God, I'm such a like piece of shit. You know, like I don't look like that or like I'm not exercising enough or I'm not doing this. You know it's so easy to get caught up in that like comparison stuff, and even two with dog training, you know, like you see what other people are doing with their dogs or their dog training businesses, and it's so easy to be like, oh my gosh, they're doing so much more than me, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:It is very challenging and I've gone through, you know, on my Instagram, where I've been like super dedicated to like, pumping out content consistently, and then I stop and immediately things drop off and I'm like, oh no, everyone hates me, literally, literally. Everyone hates me, literally, like I don't lose all my followers, followings dropping off and like it's. I really have these moments of like wow, why am I allowing this to like affect me in this way? Isn't it crazy? Oh, it's awful, it's awful and it like really doesn't matter. It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. I'm showing up for my people, I'm working on showing up for myself, you know, but I think it's important to acknowledge that like, if you follow either of us, like we don't have our shit together. Oh fuck, no, we are surviving, just like y'all. I hope, like I hope that I've gotten that message across, that like I do not have my shit together, but I think that's important.
Speaker 1:You know, I did, I did a podcast recently. I don't even know when I did this podcast. I did it a little bit ago and I hated it. I wanted to take it down so bad because I felt like I just like fucking ramble the whole episode and I had like a few people reach out to me and they're like hey, I really liked that episode because you were like super vulnerable, I think I talked about like the criticism that comes with like online stuff and how, like you know, everybody thinks that they have like an opinion on you and like what you do, because you're just like public, yeah, and I kind of, like you know, peaked behind the curtain of like hey, sometimes that stuff like actually hurts my feelings, yeah, and it's like really difficult to handle. And I wanted to take the podcast episode down so bad.
Speaker 1:And I got a few people who were like hey, you rambled a little bit, but it was a really cool message because you have all of these followers, you know, and you have like what, 70 something thousand followers on Instagram. Like that's a lot of fucking people that like watch you. Yeah, it's a pressure, absolutely. It's wild, isn't it? It is, it is. I think people with followers need to be like studied. Yeah, like it's a weird thing to be perceived by that many people Like even when I post a story and like thousands of people see it.
Speaker 1:I'm like, imagine if I was standing in front of a room with like that many people. Yeah, that'll be wild. That would be wild Every day, every day, oh my God. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, like, think about when you like I just broke out with a sweat Like, think about when you post a story and like however many people see that, like imagine standing in a room of that many people, Like that's crazy. My heart rate is going up right now. Like literally, this is literally what I think about every single day. I'm like, oh my gosh, 3000 people have seen my story. Imagine if I was standing in an auditorium of 3000 people. I've never thought about it that way. Thank you for that. Now, well, I wanted to be a professor really bad and so I think about, like the big auditoriums, like at UCF and UCF is like a really big school, yeah, and that's what? Like a thousand people, they're just all glaring at you. But like, imagine when you make a post and you get like thousands and thousands of people, yeah, and that shit's wild. It is wild.
Speaker 1:And I think you know sometimes I have trainers reach out asking me for advice? Or how did you start your social media? Or you know, what advice do you have from I'm afraid to post something. And it's challenging because I do like my feelings are hurt if I have someone that messages me telling me like you know I disagree with you about. You know you can disagree with me, that's fine, like we're all entitled to opinions.
Speaker 1:But like full on, like picking a part and resharing it and breaking it down in some kind of way, that's like making me sound like a terrible person. I'm like Isn't that wild? I just was doing long line work with this dog. Like what did I? What happened? Like the dog looked sad but it was like calm and it's picked apart in some way. That's like like 30 seconds of your life is like analyzed, yeah, and it makes it hard to show back up.
Speaker 1:Honestly, like I have literally like dropped off because I'm like I'm afraid to post something again. I don't want that to happen again, but I don't want to stop providing value. So I mean it has stopped me from providing value because I am afraid of dealing with that again, but it's a process. Oh my God, I'm posted a reel for the first time. Last week, the dog park one. The dog parks, yes, oh my God, you poor thing. It's honestly, I feel bad for the children you don't have. I saw that, bro. I do have to bring my like unborn children. It is. That's just the like boldness of like keyboard warriors. Oh my gosh, if we forgetting that we're humans behind here. It cracks me up. Yeah, it like honestly, at this point it doesn't affect me too much cause it can't Like if it did, you can let it.
Speaker 1:And also, I know what I'm doing when I make those posts. I know what, I know what's coming. I know what's coming. I know what's coming. You asked for it. I know no dog parks, no doggy daycare. I'm like close my eyes, post that shit. I know it's about to happen, cringe. But honestly it's information that I wish somebody would have shared with me. So it's not like I'm just like doing it for like yeah, shits and giggles. It's like, no, this is honestly valuable information. And also like 90% of the dogs that I get have had like horrible, traumatizing experience at dog parks. Absolutely Doggy daycare or so, but absolutely yeah. So social media is it's a beast. It's a beast. It's a beast in itself, but honestly, like at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:I'm very grateful that, like that many people you know wanna follow us and listen to us as far as like dog training guidance go, and it does give us kind of like an insight into the dog owner world. Yeah, you know, absolutely Like we're very plugged into what owners need help with, because so many people are like reaching out to us for help with their dogs, absolutely. So I kind of wanna get into that a little bit. About your method of training we were talking a little bit earlier Like I've met with all of these dog trainers and like at the end of the day, we're all kind of doing you know, the same stuff. We're not doing anything. That that's that that's you know, kind of different. But I've met with a lot of like these sport dog people and you. We train very similarly and that we're very big on like state of mind stuff Absolutely. So talk to me about your kind of foundation of training and your beliefs as far as, like you know what you do. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So the first thing that I like to teach a dog, or teach people to teach the dog, is how to offer calm behaviors, not put them in obedience. I feel like obedience is about how a dog looks, where state of mind is, about how a dog feels, and I don't wanna punch the dog into a position where they're like anticipating release from the kennel or release from the door. I'm like, let's just wait. Oh, music to my ears, music to my ears. Yeah, like, put the lo-fi music on and let's just wait until the dog's like oh, you're up there, can we go out that door together? You know, just calm it down, slow it down.
Speaker 1:There's so much value in waiting for calmness versus that like break and like the dog's flying out the door, you know, after asking them for a sit. So, yeah, I focus on state of mind over obedience, simply put. So, focusing on a follow I call it on the leash or the loose leash walk yeah, it's more of a state of mind or a behavior versus teaching a focused heel where I'm like dropping food every two seconds to a dog. I want them to just groove with me, like, just move. You're following me on the leash, just around me, like reactive dogs. Definitely, I want a little bit more behind, but as long as you're not pulling on the leash, I am happy.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I start with more thinking about what the dog is feeling versus what the dog looks like, and I think that's huge, especially in like the pet industry. I think right now everything is very trendy around like fancy obedience and like play. I think those things are valuable, but so many people are struggling with their dog's behavior and it's like, why are we trying to play with your reactive dog when they're like clearly exploding at this other dog? You know, I've never had someone reach out to say, how do you get my dog more excited? Right, never.
Speaker 1:And that's how I differentiate like experienced dog trainers from inexperienced dog trainers Is they're like oh, solve this problem with playing. Tug with your dog immediately out of the car when they're like losing their mind. And I'm like, why would you ever do that? Like that would never solve anything, whereas, like, we kind of focus on like free, shaping, calm, yeah, you know, waiting for the dog to offer us the state of mind that we want before we continue in the training. Absolutely, I mean I think play is valuable, it's part of the process, but I don't I don't bring it in at the start, no, I bring it in at the end, yes, or whenever it's appropriate. Absolutely. I think obedience is an advanced skill. Absolutely, it's something to plug in.
Speaker 1:Once you've mastered that relationship with your dog, that calm state of mind with your dog, it's like an extra, it's like a bonus feature, absolutely yes. Oh my gosh, I found my people. I found my people. I found my people. No, that's like what I talk so much about. And my trainers come from the experience of like obedience and so I'm trying to unlearn them, you know like unteach them All of these things that they've learned of, basically just like drill this dog with obedience. And it's just like. That is not how we solve behavioral issues. You have to first have a dog that is neutral and stable and then we can do obedience and then we can work on getting them excited and like pumped up for training sessions and all that sort of stuff, but really like the foundation is around. You know that state of mind.
Speaker 1:I did a group session today for some of my training clients that have been working with me and one of the biggest things I told them was don't worry about trying to like have your dog keeping alongside. Like if we're walking, we're going through this like a farm there's horses, there's cows, there's pigs, there's goats. I can't believe you did a group session. I know I'm crazy At a farm. I love that. Why not? I don't know, I just would not do that. It's like let's sprinkle in some more chaos into a group class. That's not a lot of hangover, no, but you mean, you like did it? You know, yeah, and these guys already had foundations and they knew how to do leash work and how to obtain the loose leash walk and we did a warm up beforehand in a field.
Speaker 1:But it was kind of like it's lifestyle training, like let's take this shit on the road and all right, like let's look for holes. Your dog is disconnected and pulling ahead of you. Let's work on that. Let's stop right here. Like I had two people helping me in the session in the group class and everyone just kind of scattered around and did their thing and we floated around and you know reminders like how would I tell people if you're walking your dog and you get your loose leash walk dialed in before you start? You get your warm up right and you go and your dog starts pulling toward a bush, get back to it, start over. There's a great opportunity to reconnect. So like you might never make it around your block or your route, just work on your leash work the whole time and your dog's gonna be so much more connected to you.
Speaker 1:So in the farm, you know, I had my cattle dog and there's cows and she's like, oh my God, my people, my people, she lost her ever loving mind and she was probably like the most ill behaved dog out of all of the dogs. I'm like, well, you know, you guys are the ones paying me for training. No one's paying me, I know. I tell people that all the time. Like bro, I spent all day training dogs. I think I'm gonna go home and train my own. No, I would let them be chaotic. I'm in survival mode of her and hear people my dog is great, I love her, but yeah, she saw her people and she like popped off and it was so. It was like a vulnerable moment of like hey, look, we're not perfect. Even my dog loses it, you know, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So a couple of people were like that was really helpful to see that that happened to you First of all, that you were humble about it and that how you reconnected her, like how you build it back up and kept going, like without freaking out and dragging her away, it's like, no, this happens, this happens, I have a spicy, you know, redneck melon walk. Yeah, and so many people struggle with that. Can you walk us through to the best of your ability? How you would, you know, guide a client through that? Yeah, yeah, absolutely so. Directional changes, absolutely. So. The dog goes ahead of you and in the moment they're in pressure, stop, bitch. We need to do a fucking seminar together. Let's do a seminar. Oh my God, just stop, just stop moving, stop, don't walk forward. Your dog is pulling. Stop, turn around, go the other way, go the other way or start to back up.
Speaker 1:The rule is your dog should never put pressure on the leash the moment they do. If they do, stop, just stop Back up, go the other direction, go back and forth, reconnect, go forward again. Double like oh, that doesn't work, it can never work. It can never work. You can never let it work. You can never let it work. You can never let it work. I think that's the biggest thing that I struggle with people is they're like but I did the things that you told me to do and my dog still pulls me over to the grass and I'm like you're getting too far. Yeah, you know. Yeah, like, your dog shouldn't ever be putting pressure on the leash. The game is there should never be pressure on the leash and you should never move forward when there is pressure on the leash, absolutely, that teaches the dog how to pull. If your dog goes to pull and you step forward, they're like oh, that's how to get forward. Yes, so it's like.
Speaker 1:You know, I have a husky. His life is best lived pulling. But he knows if he's on his slip lead or if I have the nose loop on him, he's along my side. He won't. Well, I lied, he. You know. I have to warm him up, I have to connect him, do a couple, couple directional changes with him and then he's like oh yeah, cause he's pushy, Right, and that's something that I have all of my owners do.
Speaker 1:I say before you go for a walk, I want you to do some walking drills out in front of your house. You know, like, before you even walk out of your house, have your dog check in with you. If they're not checked in with you, you're not ready to go for a walk. And I think, yes, that I do the same thing. And also, if your dog becomes disconnected in the middle of the walk, there's a great opportunity to rebuild that it's like it doesn't mean you failed, it doesn't mean you didn't do it right when you left your house.
Speaker 1:If your dog starts pulling toward a bush, there's your opportunity to work your leash. Work again, reconnect, go forward, go, oh on, you go. Release your dog to sniff when it's like your idea right, yeah, I stop. I ask my owners to wait for their dog to check in with them and then I tell them to give them their release word. Go ahead and sniff, don't pull, but like, you can have more freedom at the end of the leash. But, yeah, always it's like that's lifestyle training to me. Every moment my dog is like making a poor choice per se.
Speaker 1:Pulling toward something I'm like there's a training opportunity and the more consistent you are with that, the more consistent your dog learns to stay by your side. Yes, most of them and dogs know what works. So if you allow your dog to pull you some of the time, they're always going to go to that. They're always going to go back to pulling. So, like, even with my dogs when I'm walking all four of them I do walking drills. Yeah, oh yeah, me too, I still am doing walking drills. My dogs know the expectation of heel, but they will still try me and I never, ever, ever allow them to pull. So imagine, if you allow your dogs to pull, what you're going to have to work through every single time you go for a walk. Every single time I feel like we're very similar and that, like, the walk is kind of the foundation of what we do. The walk is the foundation.
Speaker 1:I had a client reach out to me one time that had a huge yard and her dog didn't listen to her and she just wanted to recall with her dog and I explained to her that the leash walk is an important part and she was like, oh, we don't walk. And I had to tell her I'm sorry, I'm not right for you, because that's the foundation of my training is on the walk. That's where you build your relationship with your dog and there's a lot of other components to go in and in the home. But if we don't have the walk, I don't know what you have Right. Yeah, you would be so surprised, like so many dog trainers either don't walk the dogs or they hate it.
Speaker 1:They're like I hate walking, I love it, I just want to do obedience and I'm like obedience makes me want to die. I hate training obedience, like sitting at a desk and having to just fill in these little circles on those tests all day long. I hate it. I hate it so much. Obviously I have to teach obedience to the dogs that come to us for training, but I literally I give the dogs to the trainers and I'm like teach this dog a place command. Like I don't want to do this, like it's so monotonous and it's so boring and it's like not that valuable, honestly, like I love just walking dogs. Yeah, I enjoy, I teach, I teach place as obedience, but I don't teach obedience on place. Explain, yeah, explain. So I learned this from Sherry Lucas. Ok, I love it already, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So when I teach a dog place, I'm usually doing leash work, 180 drills, and then I'll bring them up to the place board and lead them on and tell them place, and I don't let the dog off, I'll use my body to block them until they look at me and then I say let's go, ok. So they start to learn. I have to connect and calm down to gain access, to come off, right, ok. So then I start to increase my criteria. I wait for them to sit and then they look at me and I say let's go, ok. And then this is what I do, this is validating.
Speaker 1:Ok, I don't put them in obedience, I don't tell them sit, or I don't tell them no, I don't tell them that, either I don't put them in a command. Yeah, I don't put them in a command. I literally will wait for them to like sit. Yeah, ok, same, nice, I wait, I wait for them, nice. Ok, you know what I'm doing. You passed, you passed, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:When they offer the down and they relax, then I'm like let's go. So it's always calm. I don't do like a hot release from place. I don't break, you know, break, yeah, I don't do an excited let's go is my like move with me? Yeah, you're still in like a follow state of mind.
Speaker 1:I train Panda with obedience and he's still like she'll shoot off, she'll make the place board fly like five feet. You know, when she jumps off on my go, good Lord. But Piper, stan, obi, or like calm, they'll walk off like, ok, we're done with that. So you don't gain access of freedom until you're calm off place, because I really my goal is I don't want to manage my dog and put them on place all day long. I want them to learn how to just be calm and drive in the home with me. You want to teach them how to think for themselves. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely. Think for yourselves. Check in with me when you need something. You know so many dog trainers don't do that Everything is obedience.
Speaker 1:That seems like crazy, crazy, right, like literally like everything is obedience, like the dogs are always in a command. You come to the door, sit, the dog goes into a sit. Break, no, thanks. Dog goes place. Place, yeah, break, yeah, like no, I teach your dog how to live with you. You cannot like the dogs cannot think, and I know because I'm getting these dogs for like boarding trains, yeah, same, because they've already been through trainers who just drill obedience. And it's like you are not teaching your dog how to think for themselves. And even today I did my Q&A and I got a question from somebody. They're like are your dogs just always in command? And I'm like my dogs are never in command.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm a bit of a place hater, not because I don't like place, but because I think people use it as a crutch and it can almost become detrimental. Because they're like oh, I'll just use place to solve all of my behavioral problems, and then it becomes an opportunity for the dog to break a command. Yeah, yeah. So imagine I don't correct a dog for breaking a place. Actually, I just told them to go back on. Yeah, yeah, you just bring them back. Yeah, in the beginning I think it's very valuable because you're giving a dog like here's a space for you to calm the fuck down.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think as a trainer, place is valuable. Yeah, but when I'm teaching it to owners, it becomes a place for the dog to be. Like I know what I'm supposed to do, but I'm going to break this anyways because I can. Yeah, so I really like tying dogs back because imagine, if you just have an owner, they're not really going to be able to hold their dog to place if somebody comes in the door, right? So why would I tell that dog to go to place when I know that the owner is not going to hold that dog accountable to staying on place when somebody comes in? I would rather not put that dog in a command at all and tie them back and just prevent them from rushing the door or jumping up on guests and prevent the behavior instead of saying go to place.
Speaker 1:I feel like a lot of trainers use place as a crutch to solve behavioral issues by basically putting the dog in an obedience command. And then they're like oh well, the dog broke the obedience command, so we have to correct them for breaking the obedience command Instead of just teaching the dog. I don't want you to do this thing. Yeah, yeah, just don't jump, don't be crazy, right, just chill out, just use your leash to prevent those things, instead of being like go here and stay here. I think that's the number one forgotten thing that people want to or forget to keep utilizing is I just put your dog on the leash. I love the leash. Just put your dog on the leash. It's not like shackles, that's. I know. It's just guidance.
Speaker 1:All of my questions that I get on my Monday Q&As. I literally just want to hold up the leash. This is the answer. This is your answer to everything. They're like when I hug people, my dog jumps or starts humping and I'm like leash, how do I keep my dog from running in the street? Leash?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have someone that's working through reconditioning the kennel. The dog kenneled when they were at Poppy and then graduated from it. Right Now the dog is starting to be a little destructive in the house. So they reached out for training and I'm like crate, the crate, the crate Magic, the magical crates. And they were like you know what? Actually? The dog goes under the bed a lot and hangs out under the bed and I was like there's a great indicator that your dog needs to crate. Yeah, yeah, isn't that so sad? That literally breaks my heart.
Speaker 1:We have this client who they're like an older couple and they're super anti-prong collar, they're anti-e-collar, they're anti-crate and they literally just have like this feral dog, feral dog like living in their house. And this poor dog is like Lucy, like a field line golden retriever and Lucy, if I do not crate her. Like I was out in the forest all day yesterday and she literally came up to me and just gave me this look like please put me in the box, help me, put me in the box, I need to rest and that's how this dog is. And like these owners are like that's so mean. And I'm like this dog is literally begging to be crated and like you're not giving it that space. Oh, I would love to be crated. I mean, I am crated Like my van, like just put me in there. She's like do you want to sleep in the house. And I'm like I don't think I can sleep in the house. Yeah, I did offer it. I was like we have an extra bedroom. No, I like the crate. I would like to be in my crate.
Speaker 1:No, when I was in California for the fight, I like stayed at my new friends, one of their Airbnbs, and they're like we can like share the room. And I was like I'm going to say this and I mean it I cannot sleep in a home anymore. You've become feral. And they're like what do you mean? And I was like I've slept in my van so much that like I don't think that I can sleep in a house. And they're like no, you can sleep in the Airbnb. And I'm like I'm going to go sleep in my van in the driveway, like I'm literally loosey. I'm like I need to go put myself in the crate. Go in the crate, it's OK. Yeah, I always like explain to my owners.
Speaker 1:I'm like the crate is basically like if you were at work and you were really stressed or you were really overwhelmed and your boss was like hey, there's a dark, quiet room down the hallway, why don't you go and chill out in there? You would be like oh, thank God, like, thank you, yes, I would love that. Like that's what the crate is to our dogs. Yeah, absolutely yeah, think of you. Know you're a guest somewhere and the only space for you is the couch and you want to go to bed at like 8 pm. You're exhausted but everyone's hanging out Until 10 pm and you're like oh, my God, I really want to go somewhere else. Like I'm trying to rest, I'm laying on the couch, you're all being obnoxious and noisy. I want to go somewhere else that like go to the crate, just go to the crate. Yeah, give your dog their bedroom.
Speaker 1:That's so funny that you say that I was literally the child. Like my parents would have parties at Our house when I was little. I was literally like three, yeah, and I would kick all of my like cousins out of my room and I'd be like it's 9 pm, it's my bed time, it's my bedtime. Like go home, get the fuck out. And I would lock everybody out and they would go to my parents would be like make a lot of sound of the room, cuz like everybody would be playing and I'm like sorry, 9 pm, time to go For the night.
Speaker 1:Nothing has changed. I mean, that truly is our dogs, though. I mean they want, they want a space where they can go chill, right, so we got the loose lead walk. That's a huge foundation, yeah, for us. We got the crate. What else you got? What other? What other? Like pieces of dog trainer, like, yeah, goodness, you got a share with us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I look at it like the calm zones right, that's great place, and I'm like you know piper, as on her bed, a prime example and I didn't put her there. She was like this is my, she chose to go there. It's her comfy spot. Honestly, like she would probably be on the couch, but there's not room for her at the moment. But my dogs gravitate to place because it's a calm zone, because I, the way that I conditioned, I condition and I don't correct them for coming off if I just put them back on, yeah, until they're calm, and then I'm like now you can come off and you're fine. Yeah, it's like. Sometimes I need that reset myself.
Speaker 1:Well, I was gonna say are you like into meditation? And still I am. Yeah, yeah, okay. So when you're meditating, like you never like punish yourself for not like focusing on your breath. Oh, that's awareness, that's like. So you're like breathing right, yeah, breathing, okay. We're gonna focus on the breath in, out, and now eventually your thoughts are gonna wander, mm-hmm. Always come back to your breath, absolutely. That's exactly what places it is. Always come back to place. Always come back to place until you're like all right, now I can come off, yeah, right, so that's my like, my foundation. I start with place, create and buy your side on leash and that's, that's loosely schwaak, that's like always calm, say your safe spot is by your side on leash, and then that grows out Recall, right and again. That still builds into like by your side.
Speaker 1:Do you formally teach, recall or do you find that recall kind of shapes itself with the relationship that you're building with the dog, 100% the relationship with the dog? I think that Recall is a big indicator of your relationship with your eye, the leash and recall. If your dog is like Whatever you, to me that's like wow, we're missing a lot here, right, we're missing a ton here. So I Really like to Teach on the long line. I do a 15 foot long line. If the dog goes ahead, just stop. If your dog gets to the end of that 15 foot and goes into pressure, they're like whoa, I'm not going forward anymore. And then they look behind and you're like hi, hello, I am actually attached. I am attached. And then call your dog back.
Speaker 1:I love to build in how to reward offered check-ins. Yes, it creates a bubble around you. Your dog is like I'm aware of where you are. So I like to look at that like the 15 foot leash teaches that bubble, yes, and then I layer the E collar with that. When they go out to that 15 foot, I just do a quiet touch, a tap on the E collar and they're like hello, and they come back and yes, and I give food, reward or give intentional touch depends on what's really valuable for the dog.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it's a huge indicator of the relationship you have with the dog if they're like constantly ground sniffing and not checked in and all are aware of where you are. They're like a half mile ahead of you like either have a bloodhound or a problem. Yes, yeah, and that's one thing that I like emphasize a lot with my owners is I'm like I don't want you talking. I don't necessarily want you giving your dog like a recall command, or even, like one of the trainers that I was talking to today she was like oh, I taught the E collar by you know, labeling, recall and I was like you need to do the opposite. I want the dog to be visually paying attention to you, and when they're not, when they check out, when they're no longer focused in on you, that's when that pressure goes on, either the pressure of the leash or the pressure of the E collar.
Speaker 1:I don't want that dog having to rely on that verbal, that verbal, and I think so many people get hung up on that. And I'm like I don't formally teach recall, really like we do, in the sense that I Kind of create this like habit with the dogs that are boarding with us and do board and trains with us and that like let's go, you know, all the dogs recall, we go inside, we go into the crates, they get fed. Mm-hmm is a reward, so they learn. Oh, when she says you know, let's go or come, we all run back, we get rewarded, we get fed. Yeah, but it's not like I'm doing a recall session with the dog. Yeah, it's really a session based around like are you focused in on me? If you're not focused in on me, that pressure is going to come on. And I think that's super valuable, because so many dogs that I get who have already been trained are just trained on those verbal commands. Yeah, the only thing that they know is to just pay attention to that verbal command. So you're constantly having to be like, come, come, come, sit heal, heal, and it's like that's not really helpful for what we're trying to, you know, get out of our dogs. I want the dog focused on me, yeah, visually paying attention to me, focused on where I'm at, without me having to rely on that like Spoken command, because when a dog is focused on me, they're less focused on the environment, yeah, which means they're less reactive. Reactive, absolutely. They don't, you know, have these behavioral issues that so many people struggle with.
Speaker 1:I think it's important to remember that we are verbal. Dogs are not. Yes, dogs are about pressure and they're about body language. So my favorite thing to do if we're doing a recall session, it looks like that, like the quiet, like yes, I do teach Because safety right, like we're in Utah, there's like moose and mountain lions and shit.
Speaker 1:There's things that, like I want to be able to recall my dog from if they are like all the sense. I mean we have to be honest, don't you think people get hung up on? Yes, yes, I'm fine, food reward, that's recall training. But it's like there's so much, no, there's so much more than it's about it. Like, maybe we just call it like a relationship recall yeah, we're gonna make a new name for it. Yes, and yeah, yeah, it's like I'll be like okay, we're walking, we're walking, just stop. What does your dog do? Yeah, does it just keep walking forever? We have a problem. So, teaching that, like when you stop and back up your dogs like we're going, yeah, and they come back to you and then you reward that offered behavior again, it's like your dog to think, yeah, yes, yeah, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:Or I get people who are like, well, what do you feel, you, what do you do if your dog, like, is walking a little bit out in front of you and I'm like I don't care as long as my dog is checking in with me? Yeah, yeah, yeah, is that dog checking in with me? I don't know if it's reactive, right, I don't know if it's a scanner and anxious, and it's like yes, like, yeah, constantly had, like scanning. But if it's like pipe, well, piper can walk 10 feet ahead of me, I don't really care, she's old, but Panda, I want to my side or behind cuz she's a bitch right. But you have to be strict because if you give her like an inch, then you know that she's going to take it like, yeah, which is be reactive.
Speaker 1:And I talked about this, yeah, previous episode about how I work through. Activity is if I have a Reactive dog, I'm super strict about here, because I'm gonna be super strict about heel, because if you break this heel position, I'm I'm going to correct you, because if I don't correct you, you're gonna be reactive. Right, if I don't correct you for this little thing, this minor thing, it's gonna be a big thing, if that's fair. Yeah, absolutely. I think that's going back to the like riffing off a dog and owner. Yeah, dynamic, you have to know what is right for that dog and I have clients that I'm like I don't care if your dogs a little bit ahead of you, yeah, as long as he's responsive to where you are, if you Move in a direction they're aware of where you are, right, like I don't care if he's like a head click ahead of you, as Long as you can get them back by your side if you need to, if you're like going into business in the city, but it just depends.
Speaker 1:There comes again yes, it depends, it really does, though. Yeah, it does. No, but this is like very refreshing to hear, especially because, like I don't know, I feel like very recently I've been surrounded by so many dog sport people and it it relies heavily on obedience. But just kind of. You know, my experience in the dog training industry has Been formed around like this state of mind stuff, like this side of mind stuff is just so much more valuable to, I think, the average owner. And Also I'm getting a lot of people who are doing like this Heavy obedience training, like they have a dog with like this crazy focused heel, but then their dog is still like reacting Hmm, isn't that crazy? That's crazy. Like they're like look, look at my focus heel, right, and then like the dog is in my house and it's like barking at other dogs that are in the house and I'm like I don't give a fuck about your tail, I like the moment it's out of the focus heel there like yes, oh, yeah, that's what I'm saying is like that's a huge, that's very trendy. Yeah, that's very trendy right now Is everybody's like real hard on the fancy obedience. It's like I don't care how a dog looks, I care how it feels.
Speaker 1:I've started doing a group class, just like neutrality group class. We're just gonna work on building neutrality around each other. Because it's again it's like how does our dog feel? Like everyone wants the dog to be positive and friendly and it's honestly, the least important thing to me if I don't. Yeah, yeah, like. Imagine if you're like super stressed out, having a panic attack, and I'm like eat this candy right now, you would be like I probably would. I'm an emotional eater, I'm a bad example shoving food down your throat, oh my gosh. No, it's. It's like the swing of like either your dog is really Forward and positive, and it's like I want to say hi to everybody, or they're like Negative and they're like I hate everybody, fuck you. It's always neutrality Like. We're always gonna come back to that middle of like. No, just build neutrality. We can build positive associations through like counter conditioning, but my first goal is neutrality. Just ignore it. Like yes, oh my gosh. Oh, so refreshing, yeah, so refreshing.
Speaker 1:The whole counter conditioning thing yeah, that is not where 90% of people are at. It's complicated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I call it yes, work Like yes, I said this to somebody the other day and they're like what the fuck is? Yes, work. And I'm like it's counter conditioning, it's counter conditioning. And they're like I've never fucking heard yes work before. And I'm like that's like what people are doing, like yes, work, right. So like a dog looks at a trigger, yes, the dog looks to you, you pay them. It's so counter intuitive. It's like why are you saying yes when the dog's looking at the trigger Like well, it's the same as like correcting? You're just like disrupting it. You're disrupting it with a positive marker word Like I'm like don't try that until you can say yes and your dog's snapping to you like food, what?
Speaker 1:I think I don't think very many people are there for counter conditioning. I think that is like very specific to like dog trainers Like yes, work, stuff. Absolutely. I do teach my clients that that was something we focused on today and I could show with Panda Like she's like, oh my God, a cow, I want to eat that cow. And I was like yes, and she snapped and looked at me and then I don't wait for her to look back at the cow to say yes again. She'll look at the cow and be like I'm thinking about eating the cow. But let me check in with my owner and then I say my criteria changes. Then, when she looks at me, I say yes, and feed her again. And then my goal is Because she made the right decision, she used her little doggy brain, her little doggy pea brain.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is about teaching the dogs how to make better choices, teaching them to think for themselves, instead of constantly putting them on obedience Absolutely. So then she offers me the check in. I'm like, yes, and then she calms down and we go. Okay, then we can go. And she's like, oh, that cow's no big deal. Or like I'm not actually a cowboy dog today, not today, honey, I'm sorry, I'm not actually a cowboy dog. I love that, I love that she wants to be Um hot take.
Speaker 1:But I think more people mess up positive reinforcement than they do mess up like punishing their dog. Yeah, I could say that Like. People are like oh, my dog only listens when I have like food in my hand, or I don't know like they get really hung up on, like yes, yes, yes. And I'm like explain to me why you're saying yes and why you're choosing like when you're saying yes, like explain that to me and they can't, yeah, yeah, well, I mean, it's human to want to pay, right. So we're constantly in this mindset of like give, give, give. Like give a cookie, give a treat, and sometimes it's not the right time and learning to differentiate like, hey, like, if we're trying, yes, work, if we say yes once and the dog is still fixating, abandon ship, yeah, interrupt that dog with pressure body language. You like, scoop the dog up, move out, get out of town. Like, leave it, let's go. You like you can try, yes, work Absolutely. I love working that, but it's only gonna work if you have the right conditions. And if it doesn't work the first time, abandon ship. Like you don't want to, you don't want the dog to continue to load and go popping off and it's like, well, now we're, now we're in a shitty situation. Yeah, well, counter conditioning only works when you catch the dog before they have that like big explosive moment. And if you haven't yeah, if you haven't like loaded your marker word, well enough, then it's not really gonna be super meaningful.
Speaker 1:That was something that I saw with like a lot of my new trainers. That's one thing that I really like about having trainers is I get to see what everybody is doing. And when I was a personal trainer, we all trained the same way and I remember my boss was like I don't know where you all learned this shit from, but every time I shadow your training sessions, you guys are all training the exact same way and you're doing way too much. And at the time and I was like whatever you know, and now I'm like that's literally me, like I'm like that with my trainers and I'm like I don't know where y'all learned this, but you're all training the exact same way, like you're all doing the same stuff and I think kind of untraining them in that sense of like why are you giving the dog so many yeses? That's something that I see a lot of when I'm working with some of my new trainers and I'm training them. Is they're just like yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1:And it just becomes like so unmeaningful to the dog, the word has lost all meaning. The word has lost all meaning. And that's kind of what I say when I say like I think people mess up yes, work a lot more than they do punishing their dog, because people are so hesitant to like correct their dog so they're very like mindful of it. You know, like I don't think I have any owners that have like messed up their dog by like correcting them unfairly. No, it's not a bad word, right, it's not, but that's so like that's such a big fear in people, and especially like on the internet. People are like oh the E-caller, people can use it incorrectly. I really don't get people that are using it incorrectly Like I get people that are messing up, yes, and food rewards, far more than people are messing up corrections. Yeah, agreed, agreed.
Speaker 1:It's complicated to catch the right timing, grab the food, deliver it at the right time. Then you drop it. It's hard. Like counter conditioning is like a hard thing. It is advanced, yes, it's advanced. You know, in a board and train, absolutely, I'm going to take a dog out and work counter conditioning with it, for sure, in one-on-one lessons that might look different. Yeah, absolutely. And that is again where it depends. It depends, it depends. Yeah, my Monday Q&As are literally just going to be like it depends, I don't know. Yeah, it depends, it depends. Just piss everybody off. Would that be great? All right, we've been talking forever. Are there any little pieces of advice that you want to share with the world while you have a microphone in front of your face.
Speaker 1:I was thinking about this when you were talking about a dog that like can't function in freedom. Yeah, I just connected with a CBD company. Oh, yes, that could be really valuable for dogs like that Halo organics. Yeah, they're called, and Antony is the owner. I've learned about him from some other trainers that I really respect and trust. So I now have formed a relationship with him and I encourage you to check him out or anyone that's listening to check him out.
Speaker 1:I put some CBD in my, in your beverage, in my beverage. I'm feeling great, feeling fine. So it's about like it's kind of unfair to allow a dog to live in a state of chaos. If your dog is struggling with stillness, what can you do to support him? You can create him Absolutely, give him his room to relax in or put him on place to dial it down. But adding a high quality CBD could be valuable to just take it down a punch. Take the edge off, take the edge off.
Speaker 1:It works in miraculous ways and I think that is kind of an aid to our dogs, because we're asking a lot of them. You know, we're asking our dogs to live in a very human world Absolutely, and they have key brains. They have tiny brains. They're literally not designed for them. They're constantly processing everything in their environment and we're asking them to live in apartments and homes and be inside all day and be calm and it's like so many dogs were not bred for that. So many dogs were bred for jobs, like you have a cattle dog. You're asking a cattle dog to live a house life when they really should be like wrestling cows. Absolutely, she wrestles my kids, yeah, like she does. But yeah, it's true. You know, I do think you know I have a husky. We do pulling things. My cattle dog does bitey things. She gets to run. It is, you know, genetic fulfillment. Biological fulfillment is important, the big part of my training plan as well, with people. But it is a big ask, you know I this could be a whole other podcast, maybe another day.
Speaker 1:But thinking about the island dogs that are like feral, like leave them the fuck alone. They have the best life ever. Oh my God, they're living their best lives. Oh, oh my God. The people who go to other countries and think that they're like saving dogs, leave them alone. Oh my gosh, leave them alone. Yeah, they're living their best life. They're so neutral to their environments. They have food, they have water, they have resources that just leave them big. They're so happy. They're so happy. And then you take them here and they're terrified of the world. And then you put them in an apartment and they're like fuck my life. Yeah, oh, my gosh, that's another podcast. Yeah, that's a whole other episode. Yeah, all right, tell the people where to find you CanyonsK9Trainingcom, or on Instagram, canyonsk9training.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for letting me into your home and setting up my you know whole ass podcast studio. So, in your living room and keeping your children up, they have school tomorrow, right, today's, like Monday, yeah, they're chillin, they're fine. I can't believe you have children. I have children, I do, I do. I literally thought that you were my age. I'm like a toddler. I literally thought you were my age.
Speaker 1:And then her son like greets me and I was like how old are you? He's like I'm 16. And I was like what? I wasn't a teen mom, I swear. No judgment, I could have been. I looked like that was and we're just going to leave it there. No, they're like so sweet, like you're raising the children. They're good kids. I'm proud of them. Yeah, thank you. Well, thank you so much. This has been so much fun. We will definitely have to do another episode because, I don't know, I feel like I found my people. Yeah, thank you, me too. Oh, my gosh, all right. Well, thank you so much, and thank you everybody for listening. We will see you back here next week.