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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
Insights From the Retreat Girlies: Training Insights, Shelter Challenges, and Off-leash Etiquette
This week we're joined by more than just yours truly. We sat down with the girls from our leadership retreat in Joshua Tree to chat about our favorite and most controversial dog training topics. From understanding the importance in neutrality training, to shelter problems, and off-leash etiquette, the girls had the opportunity to sit down and discuss these topics amongst each other and discover what it's like to run a podcast. This episode is broken down into "mini episodes" with each girl discussing something new.
You know the drill, grab a tasty drink and enjoy.
Hello y'all and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. I'm recording today's episode. Well, I'm recording this intro from, of course, the inside of my van. So if you guys don't know, I am, I'm a van girly. I'm currently living out of my van with my four dogs. Toma also has four dogs, two of which are his. He also has a van and we are traveling across California, so this episode was recorded back at the retreat.
Speaker 1:One of the like fun little activities that we did as a group is I had everybody write out a dog training topic and then we wrote everybody's names and they had to speak for 10 minutes on these topics. So it ranged from things like the importance of neutrality in training to overcrowding in shelters. But now is your opportunity to listen to somebody else besides me, so we're going to go ahead and jump into these little mini podcasts. I think you guys are really going to enjoy this Disclaimer, the first one that we recorded. I started recording halfway through. So I'm so sorry, kehlani and Serena, but we're going to start off with the importance of neutrality. So you know the drill Grab yourself a tasty drink and meet me back here.
Speaker 2:Enjoy when you are working a dog or trying to build them up to that resiliency right and that confidence and that stoicness is, you want them to not be bothered but depending on the dog you have in front of you, it's going to look different of how you build them to that, yeah, I mean, and the purpose for that would be like, again, engagement super important because, like you don't want to feel like you're forcing your dog to be neutral, but more so like your dog intrinsically wants to engage with you more than something that might be around them, um, but it's also just like safer, I feel I mean I have like scary dogs. So it's much safer on my end that, like we practice neutrality, because they do have personalities in which they have lashed out before.
Speaker 4:So it's very important that we're utilizing things like that, yeah, and when you have dogs that look scary, even if you know that most of the time they're neutral and they're not lashing out with any intent. I mean, maybe they are, but you know, even even if it's just one time, like someone's gonna going to be on your ass, they're going to catch it and they're going to automatically you are going to be the one who's at fault or at suspicion or whatever, because you've got a scary looking dog.
Speaker 4:You know, so I a hundred percent feel you on that, where it's like you have sort of higher pressure to be neutral when you have those kinds of dogs.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, whether it's a breed, their breed, or just their mannerisms and their personality or just like their history, yeah, um. But I would say like I wouldn't expect my dog neutrality wise, uh I to kind of walk through fire like I do in the parks when we're at something, at a sport that he loves. In that sense I know that he's got higher arousal, his drive is starting right. So my neutrality there is different and I want him to just be able to keep coming back to me, you know, and to not get too high up and so high up that he can't ever come back to me. But there's definitely like I have a lot more wiggle room for him there, because I want him to use those feelings that he's having in the right way. So it's more about channeling it than kind of like strict, strict, don't look at that dog, you know, like you can look, but we're going to keep walking, yeah.
Speaker 2:I think a lot of people get mixed up in that as well. Like as soon as they see their dog and it also depends on whatever dog you have as soon as they see their dog, like not paying attention, right, it's like, why are you not being neutral, Like you're effing up right now? And then there's a lot of frustration built on the handler's end, I feel like, which then kind of manifests to the dog that you have um.
Speaker 2:So I think it's very important that you kind of divvied up those two, like where our expectations change um in different environments and how much you're asking of your dog to be neutral.
Speaker 4:You know what I mean, yeah, and it definitely is something I think about a lot, because you know, a dog could be looking at something else and not engaging with me for a number of different things. It could be he's hungry, it could be prey drive, it could be uh, had a bad interaction with that kind of dog in the past it could just be literally just distracted, like ADHD dog brain you know so but it's like so, which of those?
Speaker 4:but some of those you might correct, Some of those you might ask for a different, like replacement behavior, or some of those you might just like bring them back and try to do a directional change or whatever, but, like, the approach is definitely going to be different. And that's something I think about a lot, because because it's so important for dogs of my breed to like where their eyes go, that's where their head's going to go, that's where they're, that's where they want to run, and so I've little bit struggled with that, because I don't want to correct him just for looking, but at the same time, sometimes looking means more.
Speaker 2:So absolutely, and that totally is contingent upon, like what's going on, right how?
Speaker 2:you feel and also I like what you said on right, how you feel, and also I like what you said at the beginning of the podcast like you set your expectations very clearly when you are going to one environment and I think we talked about that yesterday as well like in some convert group conversation where, like you have to just decide because the it's not so much like the hesitancy I think cast was saying this it's like you have to make a decision because, like you're essentially going to be, like that leader and that dog is going to follow.
Speaker 2:You know it's really like a decision thing. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:Next up we have Zara and Lex speaking about shelter, overcrowding and what are some things that we can do to work through this issue.
Speaker 5:You have a lot of experience in working with shelters.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I do. I've been working in shelters since I was 15. Yeah, and I've been in. I've been in a few different kinds, so my first one was a no kill and they were like a really small facility, very overcrowded, but like they did really good work and they had a lot of volunteers that would come in in a really small yard and all the neighbors hated us obviously because we were kind of in a residential area, but they also were really cool because they did long-term dogs off-site on a big piece of property further north in california, which was cool. So any of the dogs they knew were not gonna be successful in a shelter environment. They were able to send to like a more outdoor facility, which was very cool, and not everyone has resources like that yeah, that's amazing.
Speaker 5:Yeah, that makes me think of, like. The first point I would say is they're really lacking in resources and if there could be a more direct effort for fundraising and also government policy to regulate the shelter situation, to make it Be so.
Speaker 6:Talking to my crotch Sorry.
Speaker 2:Sorry.
Speaker 5:So that, so that these sort of things Can be possible, of creating more positive environments for the shelter dogs, and if shelters had the resources that they need, shelters wouldn't really be an issue. It would be a good thing. It would be a good thing. It would be an actual like shelter would be the right word for it, because it would be a genuinely safe place and positive place for dogs to go until they find a home, and hopefully they do find a home. But in order to do that, one component that we really need is one fundraising and two government policy to make it a more feasible solution to homeless dogs.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I mean, I think it's definitely I mean resources all day with anything that's nonprofit, right, like no one has enough money to support any of the programs that are helping and things that can't help themselves, and why, are there, never.
Speaker 5:I just like. There's so many celebrity banquets and galas in Los Angeles and it's always for something. I won't call out any specific thing, but it's always something that you can tell, like the celebrity had a nephew who had this condition or something. It's very particular and I never see fundraisers for shelters in Los Angeles, these big like. If we could get momentum of like. Here's the issue like what? Something's going? There's a disconnect.
Speaker 6:Everyone in the dog world knows, but the rest of the world doesn't seem to know yeah, I think what people are forgetting is like so education and vet care are like major issues. So education and low-income communities on like what it's going to take to own a dog, including the spay and neuter issue, that's going on because that's the big thing. It's like a lot of lower income communities and like more farm towns like don't have the resources to be able to get their dogs spayed and neutered, so like they're continually breeding dogs, which also creates more problems with like behavior and medical for dogs, because it's not proper breeding right. So you're getting a lot of dogs that have behavioral issues, just like like my dog coda, like he's just not a super sound german shepherd and he never really was and I, I, I other things have happened obviously that have made him harder, but it's also like his medical is insane and I already don't make a ton of money and then it's like I have to like fund all of his medical, which has been really challenging, and someone in a position where they don't make like nearly like you know what I make, or they have a family, cannot also take on a dog that's got medical like that. So a lot of times like medical dogs are getting dropped as well.
Speaker 6:So education for I mean overall education in general, I think around like what it takes to like care for animals and like what is happening in the world, like people just don't know how bad it is. So if you follow, like Lancaster animal shelter in Los Angeles and like Palmdale and all of those, like they are euthanizing tons of good dogs every day. Yeah, puppy litters of puppies were getting euthanized just because space, and then the likelihood of pups getting sick with like Parvo, like they can't have that spreading to other dogs so they're going to euthanize them, even though Parvo is technically like there there is a chance that they, that the puppies, can make it through. But if you don't have a foster to take on those dogs to be able to handle that medical, medical resource, the medical resources, and then the neutering issue, like to get an adult dog neutered is anywhere from 800 to like 1500 to thousand000.
Speaker 6:To get your dogs neutered and spayed is even more expensive. People can't afford that. People can't afford that. And so then there's clinics that come around, right. So there are clinics that happen where you can get lower cost medical work done on your dogs, but the wait lists are crazy. You have to go out there and anticipate that maybe you're going to get in that line and be able to get your pet spayed and neutered and that's a day of work for someone potentially Right. And those vets are like turning and burning as fast as they can, but also it's not enough. And then the vet burnout as well, cause if we're looking at like what's going on in the vet world, like that's a problem too, like they are not getting properly, like the support that they need.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6:And they're donating their time, but that's like one of the most stressful jobs. So there's less vets right now and that's an epidemic epidemic. But also to become a vet is very challenging and very, very expensive. So most people are not ready to take on medical like that, like the cost of that, so there's just like it's a. It's an overwhelming issue. And then the fact that there's like no space, there's no fosters and like sometimes, groups that I was working with like they didn't want to seem like they were. I was in a meeting one day at one of the rescues I worked with and they did not want to. They were like we are not considered panhandlers, we're not going to go out and ask for help, and I was like we're shelters, that's what we do, we need to ask for help.
Speaker 6:We need to ask for help. No-transcript are large dogs that are also very unruly, and there's no training plan for those dogs too, because the shelter would rather keep me as a trainer in house then send me to the fosters to help them with these unruly dogs who are failing in the shelter. So they're like huge, spastic, too rough in play and they just needed to decompress somewhere and that was like not an option. So right to like ask a foster, who generally are like retired people. Yeah, we're just doing their, but they're just trying to do a good thing and they don't know that they're about to get in way over their head.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and or they see the dog and they're like.
Speaker 6:I don't want to take that dog like, that dog's like and who knows if they're like, have slightly more aggressive tendencies. Who knows that they're jumpy like and they're. You know, people don't want a 75 pound mutt jumping at their face, you know what I mean. And it's like they need. They also don't have the tools necessarily to train those dogs, so there's just like a disconnect in a lot of different parts and I feel like the communication around all that is failing right now like people are not taught.
Speaker 6:They're talking about like, yes, dogs are getting euthanized, but they're not talking about like policy changes and like government also not supporting not supporting shelters in the way that they need sometimes like there's a lot of weird policies and it's different in every state, but there's a lot of like weird things that end up like failing the dogs. Bite quarantines are one thing I have a major problem with.
Speaker 6:So, if someone gets nicked by a dog, so if they like have a tooth scrapes and if it's an actual bite, the whole purpose of that was to make sure that the dog didn't have rabies. So it was like a medically safe thing that the dog didn't have rabies. So it was like a medically safe thing. It was what they were trying to do, but realistically like I've talked to doctors and nurses about this to be like is that true? And it's like no, you would be able to tell within the first like 72 hours whether you had the dog had rabies or not. Right, and there's records on these dogs, right?
Speaker 2:They have their shots or not.
Speaker 6:But if a dog and scratch you with their tooth, they're gonna put the dog on a 10-day bite quarantine in california, which means no one touches the dog for 10 days that's awful so the behavior ramifications of that are crazy.
Speaker 6:So dogs that I spent like months working with like getting them like through a bunch of their anxieties and and any of the like traumatic things that they were working through, like all of that went away immediately, because then they're locked in a box for 10 days with no one touching them, and that's a huge problem, right, and it ruins all the time, like all those hours that I spent now and that's an issue with education that could be solved with education, because somebody, somewhere, and policy change agreed that that's a good thing to do, because they didn't know.
Speaker 5:Yeah, and that's coming from a place of fear also, which is again with education comes less fear, yeah.
Speaker 6:And I think that's like people not knowing the right ways to advocate for dogs at times. And there does need to be someone who does want to look into like the law aspect of things. Like for me that's like really not my thing, like I understand it and I know what I don't like in the policy. Like where I my thing, like I I understand it and I know what I don't like in the policy. Like where I would get, where I'd hit speed bumps at the shelter and I knew what I didn't like. But then to go in and see like well, what needs to change to make that possible? Yeah, and then you have to like learn the laws and like how am I going to lobby to get this changed in my county or in the state?
Speaker 6:Yeah, and I think that's where people could come in and actually be really helpful, like lawyers donating their time or people who have time that want to spend some time on their computer learning what they can do to help. I think that would be really beneficial because those are things I don't want to look into even though they're really, really important, and that's what's going to make a difference. I think that would be a really big help because shelters don't want to do that because they're too busy dealing with all of their internal politics and trying to save the dogs.
Speaker 5:Right, Right, Internal politics, and while I agree with you, I'm also not someone who I don't even I wouldn't even know where to begin with like digging into policy and how to make changes, but I do have a interesting like how to make changes. But I do have a interesting like I'm thinking now ideas about how to raise awareness for the people who do like that sort of thing and creating content and graphics and videos about that so that the right people see it.
Speaker 6:And you're a writer and like maybe you can help with things like that, where people are like how do we talk about this in a way that's going to touch the public and inspire people? And maybe that's like with things like that, where people are like how do we talk about this in a way that's going to touch the public and inspire people? And maybe that's like where someone like you could be really helpful, who is in between both worlds.
Speaker 5:Yeah, I think that's a good little idea. We just solved, we solved, we solved it guys. We solved it.
Speaker 1:Next up we have Cass and Brittanyney and they're speaking on anxious dogs and how we can show them that we're in control and it's not their job to worry about everything.
Speaker 7:Enjoy how do you get your dog to understand that you're in control, so you're in charge this is like in relation to like anxious dogs that feel like it's their job to like manage everything and make all these decisions.
Speaker 1:So, as a dog trainer, how would you either like demonstrate or explain to owners like let's, let's just start with like the importance of um, that, like the importance of your dog looking to you for guidance instead of?
Speaker 7:I think of dogs like children and kids, and I always explain to my clients that you wouldn't put all of these responsibilities on your toddler, like you wouldn't just. Or your baby, you wouldn't just kind of let them make choices that they're not ready to handle. And specifically for anxious dogs, because I get a lot of clients who are like, well, my dog's totally fine, he'll sleep on the couch all day. But then the second, something changes. Whether it's the mailman comes to the door, he's just losing his mind. And so I always explain to them that when we think we're giving our dog all of this freedom to make choices, we're really making our dog super anxious by forcing them to be almost in a more mature position than they're ready to be in. That's kind of how I explain it.
Speaker 7:And then I use my personal dogs as examples, because I think as trainers we all fucked up on our dogs and that's how we became trainers, at least in my case.
Speaker 7:But my dog, who would protect me, to speak in this scenario who would lunge at everything on walks, I really focused for a long time on, she had to walk behind me, because if she walked ahead of me, that just put her in a more vulnerable position where she felt like if something's heading our way, she's going to take care of it. And now, because that's the expectation, but I don't even I don't even ask her to be in a heel or need her there she just naturally stays there or puts herself there because she knows that if I'm out here I might either make a bad decision or I don't want to be out here, like this isn't fun for me. I don't feel good when I'm reacting, so it's not fun for me to be out here and kind of be in charge and leading the walk. I feel much better back here. So I always use my personal dogs as reference, just to kind of like give clients hope, I guess, of what they can achieve when they kind of step into that role.
Speaker 3:I feel like your example, like comparing the dogs to like kids and like you would the average owner. They like just expect or they can't like have high expectations for their dog have you ever had issues like that with your dog?
Speaker 1:like you have a bossy dog, you know so how have you taught your?
Speaker 3:dog to you know, look to you for guidance um, she's, I've like, established like, like leader, I'm, I'm leader. So leadership has a lot to do with it. You have to be like a leader for your dog. How did you establish that? Um, basically, like, you don't make all the decisions like especially with her.
Speaker 7:She could be like kind of impulsive and kind of like probably for a lot of dogs, um they just they don't really think, so it's um beneficial for us to guide them yeah, and I think when you prove that your guidance like personally, I kind of think you also have to like prove that you are worthy of guiding them and you are like worthy of like their trust and their respect. I think that those are both super important and this is like what will well, like I'm not going to ask a lot of a dog that I don't know yet, and then as I, as I prove that like you feel safe with me, then I can kind of be like shut down certain behaviors and be like there's no need to do that, because when we don't do that, we get to do this instead. And this feels a lot better. And this does, in part, come like from the positive change program, where I'll like talk to them and it's like confident people don't punch people, confident, like we talked about neutrality earlier, and confident people don't react super explosively. And it's the same with our dogs.
Speaker 7:Like if I, like my Lana doesn't bite other dogs because she feels good and it's what feels good for her. Some dogs do like sport. Dogs definitely bite because that's what they're bred to do and it feels good, but they've also been taught that they're rewarded and that that does feel good whenever they bite, versus like when lana and when she has bitten, after it's done, she immediately runs away and she's cowering and she's shaking and so, like I know that she doesn't feel good and that wasn't like a well-balanced, thought out response to whatever scenario was unfolding in front of her. So I feel like in the process of falling into, like, the leader role. Um, it's not. It's like if a kid wants ice cream for dinner and but like you're the, like you're their parent, you know it's not good for them. You have like the best judgment.
Speaker 7:Right, but your kid might not understand that. Yeah.
Speaker 7:And then eventually, as they get older, they will. But I feel like it's a lot of kind of earning that trust and respect, and it's not always this like macho because I said so kind of thing. I was using the example of like I grew up in a household that was very because I said so and it never made me be like when something goes wrong in my life, I'm going to go to my parents to help, because I didn't really like it's almost like the respect wasn't there and it's not that I didn't respect my parents, but wasn't like wow, these people make really good decisions and will guide me through any hard decision in life. I was just like you know, I'm gonna figure this out on my own which arguably got me into more dangerous scenarios, whereas I, like I love when Lana wants to, like she's charging up and she wants to go, and instead she's like calms herself down and she looks at me because she's like I don't feel good. What do I do, mom? And then I'm like that's like that's really all I can ask of her is like thank you for coming to me with your problems, and that's kind of I'm not a mom, so I don't know.
Speaker 7:It could be completely different when I have kids. But if my kid comes to me and they're and that's kind of I'm not a mom, so I don't know, it could be completely different when I have kids. But if my kid comes to me and they're like I fucked up, then I would kind of be like all right, thank you for coming to me and I can help you through this because I'm older and wiser and have been through this versus like hiding it, which I know is very different. I know dogs and kids are different, but I kind of think of them as pretty similar. It's not. It's really, it's parenting. That's what I tell parent like people. I have clients. A client who's like I'm not a mother, I never wanted to be a mom, I never wanted to have kids and I was like you're you're a mom, you're a mom now congratulations.
Speaker 7:It's a boy and you're a mom, so let's, we'll get through this together. Yeah, and like, if you come to my door, if walk into my house, like my dogs are in a bark, they just are, and if I don't know you I'm going to let them keep barking, and if it you know, like I don't. But we like I put in a lot of work with both of my dogs, but specifically Lana, so that she barks and she investigates, and then she comments to me if she's nervous and because we front-loaded that work, now I don't care if she barks. I used to kind of think, like my dogs can't be barking at the door ever if someone knocks or whatever. But now I'm like it's kind of just like, thank you, I got this from here and that's how I do it.
Speaker 7:Um, but I know that can be confusing for the dog sometimes of like, sometimes I can bark, sometimes I can't. I just think when you have that leadership dynamic with your dog, the barking like it's almost habitual. It's not necessarily like I'm not going to expect my dog not to bark, I'm not going to expect my client's dogs not to bark, but I will. It's about how you handle it after that, I guess, and when you step into that leadership role, I find that the barking calms down a lot and kind of they'll come off of it a lot easier because it's just a practiced habit at that point of like I bark and then I look at, like I bark and then I look at mom, I bark and then I look at mom.
Speaker 1:Next we have Bailey and Serena speaking on leash laws in public spaces.
Speaker 4:Hello Bailey.
Speaker 8:Hey.
Speaker 1:Hi Did I, hello bailey. Hey, hi, did I already. Yeah, okay, your guys's topic is leash laws in outdoor public spaces, that's a good one.
Speaker 4:I like this topic. I definitely was not the one who wrote it down, were you? No comment, tell me the truth. Um, so I think I raised this topic because I had an experience in belgium recently. That was very interesting. I was traveling to a dog show and doing some like pre-breeding health screenings and I, we were taking a break at the show and we just tried to go on a little off-leash walk in a nature reserve. That was very, rather small. I don't know if I told you this story. Okay, I was telling somebody. I can never remember which stories I tell you guys, so I apologize if I ever repeat one. Just be like okay, serena, thank you for sharing. But long story short. I had been working hard, really, really hard, training my little one Recall and she was still a puppy. She still is a puppy and I was pretty proud that I finally felt comfortable letting her off leash with lower distractions, and so I let them off leash.
Speaker 4:They'd been at a dog show for hours and hours and hours and they were really like oh, they needed an outlet right, because they're in this really barky place for hours, and I let them off leash in this nature preserve, and it was not even a huge weight, it was fences on either side of like this path, and so they could only really go forward and backwards. They couldn't go in all directions. And every time someone came along, I recalled them and put them in a heel right and I had a couple of strange looks, which was fine. I get strange looks all the time.
Speaker 4:But this one Belgian lady walked by and she muttered something in her language, probably French or German or something, I don't know because they speak multiple languages there. Anyway, and I was. I could tell from the tone that it was like disparaging. So I was like, excuse me, you know, like what'd you say? I didn't catch that. And she's like oh, you should not have had these dogs off leash. I will call the police next time. Did you not see the sign, you know? And I was like oh, I'm sorry, I mean because she was insinuating. She was like oh, they need to be under control. And I was like they're literally in heel right next to each other on my left. They are in control.
Speaker 4:And so I say that because and I found out from that experience before the police got to me I'm kidding, they didn't chase me, but anyway I found out that apparently in Belgium you are not allowed to have dogs off-leash anywhere except for in dog parks. So I'm curious how you feel about that. I think there are some places and situations where it could be beneficial, but it like really repped me the wrong way and I'm like I'm never living in Belgium, I'm going to skip that country, you know when I'm traveling around. So, like, what situations do you think that could be beneficial? Is that something that we a policy that you would like to see in some places? Or do you think that, uh, it should, that we should be avoiding that, or you could think of a better policy? So, yeah, leash laws, policy wise, fall out on that, if you've ever seen something like that before and pros and cons of that um, I mean, I love leashes yeah, yeah, yeah I live in a regular neighborhood.
Speaker 8:People let their dogs out to go potty in the front yard. The dog doesn't listen to them, it blows them off all the time. It probably doesn't even know how to sit, so then it run towards me and my dogs and then I have to kick a dog, and so I think in a regular neighborhood it's something really important. But if you're out in the field, like we, there's this random church in my neighborhood and my husband will take our shepherd back behind it to like play fetch or whatever, and I think that's fine because there's nobody ever back there and he's obsessed with his ball, so we know he's not going to go anywhere. Um, but I don't know, I think it just, I think it's an education thing, just like with everything else, like, um, no dogs, know your dog and just be smart, don't take advantage of it yeah be lazy about it, like if you're letting your dog go potty in your yard, just put the leash on.
Speaker 8:Yeah so.
Speaker 4:So you think it's more important to kind of understand the principles and and know your own education and know your own dog, rather than so like teach, teach people. This is like a very Mormon phrase that our founder of Mormonism coined. He was like I teach people the correct principles and they govern themselves. So is that kind of what you're saying, like you think it's better to do that with dog owners, like you teach them the principles and kind of the goals and mindsets and let them manage that with the leashes and off leashes, or do you think that it would?
Speaker 4:so you're not necessarily in favor of some really strict leash laws no, I don't think so okay, I was trying to wear that in a way that was like neutral, that I wasn't trying to lead you to any way. So I hope that yeah.
Speaker 8:I don't know. I think I understand there needs to be laws for things.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 8:There's laws because people don't take the time to learn. Yeah, yeah, and so we just have to set something and they're like this is the standard for everybody. But I wish it could be like a more optional thing. Yeah yeah. And if someone wants to have their dog off leash and it's like, okay, teach them these things. Make sure it's in an appropriate area, because even before you said there was an actual leash law in germany, that's where you were belgium, belgium yeah um, I was thinking.
Speaker 8:I was like, well, maybe she's like nervous around dogs and she just didn't understand because I always see that too. Even if I'm walking my dogs, they're always on leash.
Speaker 4:If I see somebody I'm like, oh, we'll just like go yeah, yeah, yeah and so that was my first thought but yeah, so it's just yeah, I actually had a second person comment that to me with my dogs, probably the same day. So I was like, okay, it is actually a lot, oh fine, yeah. And we, yeah, we did end up finding a dog, a park. It was basically just like an enclosed rented field. We didn't have to rent it, it was public and free, um, to let them loose there.
Speaker 4:But anyway, yeah that's good yeah god, uh, what situations like do you enjoy going off leash with your dog? Do you, um, like you mentioned, your husband like throws, like plays, fetch and stuff with your dogs? Like how? I'm just curious because I think every person here probably has different lifestyle and different amount of time that they spend on leash and off leash. Like I hate long lines. I literally just do the long line phase for the e-collar recall, like literally one day, one session. I'm like, hate long lines. I literally just do the long line phase for the e-collar recall, like literally one day, one session. I'm like, fuck long lines, I hate you. So, but I know that for some people they can be really beneficial. So, like, what percentage do you aim for of on leash versus off leash?
Speaker 8:I don't really aim for you don't aim for that. Okay, that's fair like um one of my dogs. I would never have him off leash.
Speaker 7:Okay.
Speaker 8:And then the shepherd. He kind of gets more freedom just because he listens a lot more, and I also think it has a lot to do with his relationship with us. Yeah. The other one like I just can't figure him out.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Talk about Tyson and how you got him.
Speaker 8:Oh actually that.
Speaker 4:Is that the one? You can't figure out Tyson, okay.
Speaker 8:Oh, actually that is that the one. You can't figure out, tyson, okay. So I found him. I was walking my dog and tyson wasn't on a leash, and he came running up to us. They got in a fight. We were rolling around in a ditch oh fun, yep.
Speaker 4:And then I took tyson home okay, so so a dogash dog ran up to you and your dog picked a fight and you took him home. Okay, that says a lot about you as a person, bailey.
Speaker 8:Yeah, but I'm crazy.
Speaker 4:So you ended up keeping him. Why did you decide to keep Tyson, this off-leash dog who, like, picked a fight with your dogs?
Speaker 8:Nobody was claiming him. The day that it happened I was knocking on doors. We did all the things, yeah we reported him and all this stuff. Yeah, I didn't tell him that they bit me oh shit, but he did, he draw blood. Like how bad was the bite? It was pretty bad. I thought like my tattoo was gonna be messed up. No, I was really sad.
Speaker 4:Yeah, okay thank god your tattoo is saved. We don't care about your face, yeah.
Speaker 8:But nobody claimed him and I don't know. I just didn't want to get rid of him. That's before I started at the shelter and so, knowing what I know now, he would have been adopted just because, regardless of how he acts, just the way he looks. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Is he cute? Yeah, he's pretty cute, what's he look?
Speaker 8:like he's just a short stocky bully. Okay, yeah, cute, but um yeah I don't know we just kept him. Okay, probably wasn't the best decision, because they're not friends anymore, but oh yeah so he was.
Speaker 4:He's the one that you said you can't figure out and that, so you don't let him off leash. So you, you're saying, basically, you, it's dependent on the dog, not necessarily like, oh, there's this ideal percentage of on leash or off leash time that I'm aspiring for. It just really depends on the dog, and that's like something to make peace with instead of just. I think that's interesting, because I think I always have these ideals in my brain that I'm like trying to aim for. Yeah, so, uh, I think, like the radical acceptance of, like who the dog is, I think that's something that I'm gonna have to think about more. So thank you for bringing that up, yeah yeah, you're welcome.
Speaker 5:Yes, okay, okay, so like a lot. No, I'm just gonna ask you guys. I in my neighborhood a lot of times dogs will run up to my dogs off leash and the owners will just call out like he's friendly. I really don't appreciate that because my dogs might not have a reaction to. In fact, once a dog just ran up to us, shiloh attacked it in in response and then the owner is like what happened?
Speaker 5:my dog's friendly like well, your dog is off leash and it ran up to my. Yeah, and they don't even know that that's dangerous. Yeah, I guess they assume that they're coming. Um, so what do you think about the idea of like getting a license or a permit to like show that you, if your dog is going to be off leash, you have. You are responsible enough to have like follow the etiquette of letting your dog be I have opinions about this, but, bailey, you go first I mean, I think that'd be great because I'm really I'm really big on I don't know.
Speaker 8:I think it would hold people accountable, and it's not that I necessarily want there to be permits and a bunch of things to go through, um, I just think it would raise awareness in education with dogs in general.
Speaker 4:So then, people, like even the process would teach people.
Speaker 8:Yeah, because almost everybody owns a dog. There shouldn't being into dogs, shouldn't be like a little group.
Speaker 4:It shouldn't be a niche yeah, yeah, you have a dog. You should be into dogs.
Speaker 8:You shouldn't be so obsessive to have to treat your dog right yeah, and not like obsessive, but as in like oh, I'm gonna give them all the treats no, but yeah like reading all the theory books yeah yeah, but like actually understanding the dogs, yeah.
Speaker 4:So I think it would be good in that way yeah, I could definitely see how that process could help people. I I have mixed feelings about it, though, because I come from service dog background. Like raul, my oldest boy, I trained him, uh, to do mobility work for my cataplexy and so, and I also almost became a lawyer, anyway. So I'm like, very into like or I used to be really into like laws and policies and stuff, um and I, there are a lot of issues both in the UK and in the U S cause I live in the UK now uh, about service dogs and public access issues, and it's interesting because both both the uk and the us have actually very similar laws that are written down. Both the 80 the americans with disabilities act and the uk quality act of 2010 have very similar language. Um, the us one is more specific but, like, the principles are very similar. Um, about you don't have to be trained with a specific organization to be a full fledged service dog. You don't need an official license or registration, like. It's all voluntary where you, you can have voluntary registrations for your city, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, but it's not mandatory for your dog to be legally protected service dog. It's mandatory for your dog to be legally protected service dog and the way they wrote that in america specifically, was to like lower the barriers for low-income people so that they didn't have to go jump through, especially because so many disabled people are low income and it's like this cross-section, so they don't have to jump through all these hoops to have official to have the help that they need. But it's interesting because even though the laws are the same, it's you have different problems public access issues in the U? S versus in America.
Speaker 4:In the U S you have a bunch of people faking having service dogs. Uh, you see that all the time I saw one, like literally like three days ago, like on my way over here, and then you you have in the UK. You have almost nobody who has service dogs, or they call them assistance dogs in the UK, and so they're so unused to seeing them that business owners will immediately kick you out. They don't believe that it's a service dog because there's like you are not a military veteran, you do not have one leg, you are not in a wheelchair, you like, look like you can speak full sentences like why do you need, why do you need help? You know, and I know a lot of people, including myself, who have a lot of invisible disabilities that the service dogs help them with, and that's something I really care about.
Speaker 4:And it's like if, if we have a registration like yeah, you could, or a license, you can give that to someone, but then you get, you just have people who are enforcing it. It's the enforcement that bothers me. The people who are enforcing it have to know what a proper registration looks like and they have to like not be so either underpaid or power hungry that they have an incentive to dismiss it because I had security guards kick me out all the time because I didn't have the registration, you know. Um, so it's like the, the police who are enforcing these leash laws would have to or good manners laws would have to like actually care about either way, they have to decide whether or not the person is actually, whether or not the dog is actually well behaved. So it's like it kind of goes in a circle like yeah, you can have a license, but at the same time, then the police are still going to investigate it the same way and decide whether or not the dog is is well behaved.
Speaker 4:So I don't know, I just I think it's I. I I'm wary about registrations also, I don't just like people tracking me, you know, like my addresses being on things, but, um, but yeah, that's my feelings about registrations and and licenses. Um, I, I definitely do think that what you're saying about the process can be super helpful. Um, but I, yeah, I don't know. I think it's good to brainstorm different things.
Speaker 8:Yeah, yeah, I didn't think about the after process of like someone coming up to me yeah and asking to see my stuff, because I've seen lots of videos of people with service dogs getting kicked out of restaurants when they're totally allowed to be in there, I literally have like so many videos of that. Yeah, so I wasn't thinking that far into it, so that definitely makes sense no-transcript.
Speaker 4:So like, even if the license is completely valid, if, like, the cop is dog, you know. So like, even if the license is completely valid, if, like, the cop is racist, you know, you know what I mean. Or it doesn't, or doesn't think that the or even with a breed like, it's like oh, that bully breed could never be well-behaved, but you have a license. So like, literally, look, my dog has this license, he's well-behaved. Well, I don't think so, because he's such and such breed. It's like, what are you gonna argue with the cop at that point? I don't know. So anyway, I think it's a cool idea, um, and I do think it could teach a lot. But yeah, those are the issues I see with that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that would be really difficult yeah um, on a lighter note, uh, so what are the sort of things that you enjoy doing with? You said, not tyson, but you have one or two other dogs like one other one other dog. What do you like doing with him off lead? Oh, he'll go fishing our landlords.
Speaker 8:They have a property, so he's completely fine oh yeah, running around there, and so he could just run around and do whatever he wants so that's really fun. I feel like that's when he's most fulfilled. I know I have to do nothing with him on those days, yeah, um. So that's pretty awesome to see he's just running around being a dog which you can't really do in our neighborhood.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, and that's that's not your neighborhood. Is that like your parents property did?
Speaker 8:you say or no, it's our landlords oh, it's your landlords, okay, weird thing going on.
Speaker 4:Oh, it sounds like it's a good kind of weird.
Speaker 8:They were like they were like married into the family but then those people got divorced. But they're like still cool with us okay cool, cool, cool.
Speaker 4:So what do you say to clients who say I want to want my dog to be able to be off leash trained? Would you say I don't know if that's realistic? Or would you say, well, why? Or what's your response to that?
Speaker 8:I mean I think it's realistic. I know if I probably put the time into Tyson I could probably do it. Um with Khalifa just kind of came naturally. But that's very low distraction areas like very safe.
Speaker 8:Um so I can't fully answer that question, cause I've never taken my dogs to a busy park and been like okay, buddy, oh, yeah, yeah, fair, but um, I think that's something that could really take time. I would tell them to work on everything else and then you can worry about recall, cause if your dog doesn't listen to you inside your house, if they can't walk well on a leash, if they aren't crate trained, then you shouldn't be worrying about recall yeah, yeah, that's what I'd tell them.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I definitely think, like meg always talks about how people use place as kind of like a crutch, I do think that there is. There are a lot of people who kind of use recall as a clut, as a crutch for like reactivity and whatever, whatever issues that your dog has like. Oh, just recall them. I mean, I think it can be a useful crutch if you're like short on time or whatever. The high stake situation like or whatever. I knew something unusual, but yeah yeah, I get what you mean.
Speaker 8:Yeah, yeah. So I don't know. It's just about putting the time in to your dog.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you can have an off-leash dog. Yeah, that's the best.
Speaker 1:I love that. Last but not least, we've got Cassidy and Serena, who decided to extend their conversation around leash laws in public spaces.
Speaker 7:Okay, so leash laws. I have a little I. I personally I understand the stressors of like owning a dog that will like fuck up an off-leash dog, because I have one of those yeah, but I will say a very beautiful moment and because we've like granted this is years in, like I've been working years with lana but, recently I was walking with my breed?
Speaker 2:is she again?
Speaker 7:she's a pit bull okay, and I was walking with my headphones on, which I don't really do with client dogs, but sometimes I'll just do it with my dogs if I'm like trying to listen to a podcast or something. Um everyday trainer yeah, plug the everyday trainer, um, or I listen to a lot of meditation music whenever I walk, because there's a lot of barking dogs in the neighborhood and I can't anyway.
Speaker 7:Um, but there's a moment where I'm walking my dogs, I'm walking lana and, uh, all of a sudden she kind of like scurries away and she gets really nervous and she's staring at me and I like wasn't paying attention at first and then I was like whoa, and then I realized that there's been an off-leash dog following us. Yeah, and she was, but no, but it doesn't bother me. It really doesn't bother me because I like she's gone from fight to yeah, to flight, which is better. I can get her back from that and so she's not going to just pin the dog down and bite him anymore and then, like, she's staring at, like I don't know. To me it just didn't, because, okay, and personally this is what I do when I have an off-leash dog, regardless of the dog. If, like, whatever dog is in my hand and an off-leash dog comes up, I and I learned this from organ tails I will turn that dog around and I will let that dog come in.
Speaker 7:Oh, you turn your dog, I turned my dog around and so a lot of people are like what I was always told is like get that dog behind you and you send that off leash dog away at any cost. Like kick them, do whatever you have to do, Like take up space and yell, and I just feel like that adds tension. Like to the dog now you're barking with her or now like to lana.
Speaker 7:That would have been like a oh mom's nervous, I gotta fuck this dog up, yeah, and so I and this took a lot of work without the distraction. But I turn her around and so she's actually in front of me. So let's say the off leash dog is right here, I'm walking with her, I will turn her around, and every time her head whips in one direction to go for that dog, I steer her this way, and then she whips this way, I steer her this way, so I will just keep backing up and like 10 out of 10 times that dog just wants to smell and run off yeah, yeah but it's like when we add all this tension and when the dogs do meet face to face, that can obviously cause more issues.
Speaker 7:Like I don't let Lana meet dogs face to face unless she's muzzled.
Speaker 2:No, no, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 7:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, especially in the city, like out here is one thing, but to be honest, even out here, like, depending on the situation. So my ex and I had a dog and he was driving through North Dakota one night and like like it was like 10 PM and he let that dog off. This dog had been off leash his whole life. He hadn't like I mean, he was perfect on a leash, he was perfect off leash. He had never ran off Ever. And he let him out to potty in the middle of the night. They were traveling.
Speaker 4:Off leash.
Speaker 7:Just let him out to potty.
Speaker 4:No, he's always been off leash. Oh, okay, I thought you said the opposite.
Speaker 7:No, no no, this dog was so perfect. He was perfect on leash. He was perfect off leash. Dog got hit by a car.
Speaker 4:oh my god, he died, yeah yeah I horrible that's oh, that our neighbor, when we lived in gilroy, our neighbor, um, had a husky that he I mean, yeah, I I think it's an interesting lifestyle, um, but he, he just kind of let the husky just go all around the neighborhood like laying this, we're literally my grandma owned 12 acres and then there's like 100 other acres of farmland rented out to farmers and orchards and it's like big, wide open, right, and the husky was just roaming all around in these outskirts of Gilroy and you could literally see him from three miles off because it's so flat and it's just crops right and um, and I always was like, oh, that's interesting that he has that much freedom, and I didn't really know, like I, I didn't like it because of, like, my preconceptions at the time but I was also like, oh, he gets lots of freedom, so I'm like it's a toss-up, right.
Speaker 7:He got hit by a car, he died, he died like right before we moved, yeah, and that's ultimately, I guess, like it's a toss-up right, he got hit by a car, he died, and that's like right before we moved, yeah, and that's ultimately, I guess, what it comes down to for me.
Speaker 7:Like, I don't take clients dogs off leash, yeah, I don't care if they want their dog off leash train, yeah, I will let your dog drag a leash or drag a long line. And personally, on my dogs with hikes near the city, where it's like mountainous like this, but less open so I can't see them, yeah, I will let my like, I will let them drag a leash. I see no issue in them dragging a leash. Um, it's just not worth the like, yeah, and you have to be willing to like, make that gamble and just kind of be like if I'm not gonna, because I specifically remember and this is a different discussion- and this is no shame to him, um, but I had always said like we should e-collar Hat, like his name was Hat the dog, and I was like we should e-collar him because he's like he's a perfect dog.
Speaker 7:We raised him from a puppy. He was like the first puppy I had raised since becoming a trainer, so it was like he was perfect and he just had a really good demeanor too. Like I can't. It wasn't all me, it was like that dog. It was just a great dog.
Speaker 7:Pristine yeah, pristine. And he like I was like we should e-collar him because he's the perfect candidate for an e-collar, like he'll have the best life ever if he's e-collar. And my ex had a perception of like e-collars are for bad dogs, like your dogs, like I remember him like saying that once and I was kind of like yes, my dogs wear e-collars because they're naughty but like an e-collar can make a really good dog's life even better and it's temporary.
Speaker 7:Like my dogs don't even really wear their e-collars that much anymore, but if, to be honest, if I had them off leash out here, I would just e-collar them.
Speaker 4:Well, cause I think that's super interesting that you're saying that, cause you don't even what't even what, what breed was hat?
Speaker 7:he was a mutt, he was.
Speaker 4:He was a foster litter and then you have your pity right yeah so I I hear this, this. I don't want to say the word rhetoric, because I feel like that makes it sound like I don't like it but I hear this um, people say this a lot in the boresway community that I'm part of, um and they won't, especially in the us.
Speaker 4:I think there's a huge difference between dog culture in the US and in the UK and in mainland Europe. Just interesting because I've gotten to see all sorts and people. In the US breeders will not even place a dog unless you have like a 7 foot. I don't know, maybe I'm exaggerating. Usually they say between like at least 6 feet, 8 feet would be better fence good breeders, I mean it is.
Speaker 4:Yeah well, with borzoi it's a pretty tight-knit community, so very it's like I would say, like 99 of the breeders in the us, or we'll say that for that breed, for that breed?
Speaker 7:yeah, that's true, I've never heard of that breed. To be honest, before you, it's fine.
Speaker 4:It's fine, it's okay, we're weird um but um, and it's interesting because I spent because of that. There's just. I just I spent the first three years of raul's life after I got him, absolutely terrified for him do you have a seven foot fence?
Speaker 4:we had. We had a, because in gilroy we had like a, I don't say it was like five feet, you know, it was like it was like the farmer fence where you have the post and then you do the things. But I mean, yeah, but it's not even that. I was scared to let him out in the garden, or sorry, in the yard, fucking england anyway in the garden, in the garden the shared garden and I wasn't.
Speaker 4:It wasn't terrified to let him out there. I was just like terrified that a fence would be, posts would be falling down and he would get out. I was just always terrified that something would happen, some sort of management would fail. He would get down and he would get out. I was just always terrified that something would happen, some sort of management would fail. He would get out and he would run away and get hit by a car. Because that's actually very, very common in sight hounds because they can run so fast Like you can run average I think the highest he's gotten is 32, but I know like gray hounds usually boards there's like 28 to 32 miles per hour. So like within seconds he could be a mile down, you know, and and they're running so fast they're not thinking they could get hit by car. Like literally, there's like chains, facebook share chains. I see once a month of someone's borscht who's gotten loose and people are like oh my god life, life, life or death situation.
Speaker 4:He's gonna be on the highways, get hit and they do. That doesn't happen like, and so there's this. I spent those years absolutely terrified and at that time I was I didn't even bother training, recall, because I was, like my dog's, not food motivated.
Speaker 7:At the time I was trying to do positive reinforcement were you letting him off leash much, or were you just like he's just not going? It was covet.
Speaker 4:So we were just, we were just. He was off leash on. The property is like one acre fenced. And then we did like our little Petsmart training.
Speaker 4:And so that was that was on leash and then we like walked down the road during quarantine and there's no one there, you know. So that was on leash, but I mean he couldn't even walk nicely on leash. But point is like I I for years I was in this mindset of my dog can never have recall, because that's not in their breed. My dog can never be off leash. I need to always be hyper vigilant and I must always be, and it was like I would have an anxiety attack if I left the door open and he poked his head out, you know, and it just was like not, I didn't realize this until I got out of the U? S and I went to the UK and I started doing balance training and we taught Rico. We did lots of leash work and you know he was, he learned leash pressure and he learned how to.
Speaker 4:Um, we worked through some reactivity, excitement, reactivity first, and then my trainer, uh, agreed to teach him recall and we did e-caller stuff and I was like holy shit, like this whole time, like this he was capable of this. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't even know that Like I literally, it's literally about it wasn't even like oh, this will be a hard thing to do this will take a while. It was literally in my brain in the breed. What we hear and all these forums online on Facebook is like that's not possible. Why are you even trying? We're never going to sell a puppy to you. You're a terrible. You deserve to die. Like that's the messaging that we get.
Speaker 7:I think that, like on that subject, like our dogs are very capable. And we are also very capable. And like.
Speaker 7:I think that we I don't know Like I was never a runner and I've gotten like I don't know like I was never a runner and I've gotten like I've started running more and I'm not like running long distance Okay, let's just clarify like under five miles, but I just like went for a run one day and I was like I'm just going to keep going because my body's not going to collapse, Like I'm not going to die.
Speaker 7:I'm very capable of this and my body's very capable of this and like that's kind of just, I think, applying that to like it's the same, I don't know, like our dogs are very capable and people really don't think that they are so. Like that's like this livestock guardian dog that I was training. Okay, um, what is he?
Speaker 4:central asian shepherd oh my, my stepmom has a sharp plananuts who's like, mixed with central asian.
Speaker 7:Yes, okay, yeah, so I was like crate, training him because he had no impulse control and, like his owners were, just they're like well, you can't create train livestock guardian dogs, it's just like not right and I'm like, yes, like it just doesn't work and I'm it's just not right, and I'm like it just doesn't work and I'm like that's just not true. Are there certain dogs like personally?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 7:I hate crate training. Huskies Won't do it. Yeah, if you want me to train your huskies, come to me crate train, because I'm not going to do that. But was he really difficult to crate train? Was he really difficult to crate train? Absolutely. Did we have to custom build an iron crate for him? Yes, we did. Yes, we did. Was it very expensive? Uh-huh, but he was like sleeping in the crate, yeah.
Speaker 4:It's possible, it's like it's very possible, and I think that's what I love about balance training, that I think, I don't know this might rub people the wrong way, but it was like, literally, my mind just like exploded, like it was all of a sudden, everything it's. There's so many new possibilities for myself and my dog. Like, oh, like, like if I could do this one thing, if I could teach him to do this one thing that I thought I would never do, that everybody told me was not possible because of his breed.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, then like what else can we do? Like oh, maybe we can do agility, maybe we can do like set work, like maybe we do all these and it just opens up.
Speaker 7:It opens up everything. It's like when you can like do something and then you're like what, what can't I do?
Speaker 4:exactly I feel like in vince one, of course, I mean, I'm sure there's like a sort of like naive newbie trainer, like like high of like.
Speaker 7:Oh my god, this is so great you know there definitely is, like there definitely is, but and that's not to like, you know, I think it's a beautiful thing, but I think that there's that high with anything like when I started doing pottery. I was like, oh my god, I'm obsessed.
Speaker 4:And yeah, and everyone in the studio. Right, I was so bad at it. I still am, but that's what gets you through the stages of like, oh, like I suck at this, but I fucking love it.
Speaker 7:But I love it and everyone else in the studio is just like exhausted, and they're just because, they're like they're because they're selling their work and trying to pay rent with it, whereas I'm just like this newbie come in and I'm just like I love this and it was the same thing, like when, you know, like my first several dog training workshops, and it was just like I was so excited and eager and like I don't know, I had some kind of bad experiences entering the dog world.
Speaker 7:Because I was like so eager and then like people who had been in it for a while were just like, yeah, yeah, that I remember when I was that eager and then I was just like, why are you in it if you hate it? And that could be said to me. Because I showed up to this retreat and I was just like nobody talked to me. I'm gonna be by the pool like I was, like I'm done training dogs, but I know I'm not.
Speaker 4:And also, you were not, you've not just been sitting by the pool.
Speaker 7:No, I haven't been by the pool.
Speaker 4:I've been swimming laps.
Speaker 7:Thank you very much but that was like my intention, like I remember being like why did I even pay to go to this retreat, like weeks ago? Because I was like I know I like. I was like I can't keep doing this, like I'm not training dogs anymore and then super burnout, yeah, I mean, and that's just like the cycle that it goes through. It's like you are burned out, you take a break, you rejuvenate, and then you work, work, work and then you're burned out the way I'm doing it yeah don't do it, don't follow my method, don't follow my
Speaker 7:my um business model. But I don't know, I am excited to like, try, like some new ideas with it. But all that to be said is like I remember whenever I first entered the dog training industry and it was just like you could just see the burnout in like everyone's eyes and then I was just I don't know. So I don't know what I was like. Oh, maybe I should try that. That sounds fun. Everyone looks exhausted, but I think that it's definitely um, I don't know rooted back the capability aspect of it.
Speaker 7:Like that's what I try to explain to clients a lot on like when they're freaking out from like slip leash pressure or something which and until, like you were saying how you maybe you started with a different route and like and then you got into balance, but like I didn't know, they were like different branches of training, I just like.
Speaker 7:I guess balance was like the first one that I that you found that I found and it worked and I was like, oh, this is great and it's not like. To be honest, I'm like I'm pretty light, some like I'm. I know lighter trainers, I know a lot of heavier trainers. Um, I don't do a lot of corrections, like I don't even. I don't even see like pressure on the leash, much as like a correction.
Speaker 4:I know I.
Speaker 7:I explained it as like support yeah and like guidance and information of like yeah. What Like no, I got you like oh, you're about to make a bad decision. I got you Like let's get out of here. Um, not even like get out and leave the scenario, but whatever it is just like, I will carry you through this.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Um it's the tether yeah.
Speaker 7:It's the tether, yeah, yeah, and it's the same. I don't know Everything I apply to like humans and friendships, and it's like I'm about to make a bad decision and my friend is like I'm going to carry you through this, I'm like I got you, like we're not going to make it that decision, and walks you through the fire Like that's what we're doing.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 7:I just feel grateful that I remember, like grateful that, because I remember like it was probably like a year into like my training journey of just like learning and applying things to my dogs and my foster dogs and like helping people who were taking my foster dogs to foster and adopt them out, and like I was just like this is what works with my dogs and this is what I'm finding progress with and I think I think that's something that I can, an approach I am going to try to take with me as I, because I'm finding progress with, and I think I think that's something that I can, an approach I am going to try to take with me as I, cause I'm just starting my training business and I, I, I see all these other trainers that I really respect where it burnt out you know um a lot of them, um, and being able to um say, hey, this, this is what works for me.
Speaker 4:I know that I have not trained the sheer numbers that so many of you have, but I do have worked through so many weird things with a very weird dog and that's what I'm passionate about, especially within the breed community, because I am pretty involved in my breed.
Speaker 4:Yeah and so I can't say to all dog owners like, oh, this for sure is going to work. But I can say to you know other Borsoi owners like, hey, you know, like e-collar training really worked wonders, you know, and especially cause just bringing it back to the leash things a little bit like I think, yeah, it's. I actually because of how strong that culture was about and how, how deeply I felt like my life changed when I did teach recall with the e-caller and how also scared Borset breeders are that the puppies will grow up wonky if they don't get enough free running. So it's like, okay, you need your dog to free run, but you don't have enough space for them to free run, but you're gonna keep them on a long line because you're scared of them dying. And it's like there's, it's like catch 22. So I was like something's got to give and, um, not, we can't. I can't like I'm not in a position to buy two acres right now, right, right.
Speaker 7:So do the breeders not like the e-collars, or do they support it? Or do you have to like sign contracts that you won't use them?
Speaker 4:They don't mostly don't even know about e-collars.
Speaker 7:Oh, they just like don't know that they exist.
Speaker 4:So I, yeah, they don't. I don't think they know, I think most of them don't know that it exists. Many of them, Um, I mean I'm sure American breeders who are very involved in in like the positive reinforcement stuff, know about e-collars, but, um, but yeah, so I actually and this is a this is probably not something that I would recommend for everybody and something that some people might not like but I actually trained irida, my puppy recall, on an e-collar before I almost taught her anything else, before I taught her leash pressure and I like, and I did it because she was already. I got her at like five and a half months and by seven months she knew her name and she was coming. She had a conditioned response to her name and she was big enough.
Speaker 7:She was as big as.
Speaker 4:Minka at that age, and that means she was starting to run fast.
Speaker 7:Like 50 pounds for reference. Yeah, and so, and that means she could, she was starting to run fast like 50 pounds, yeah, Um.
Speaker 4:And so she, she was big and she could run fast and she, I was super worried that she would not get enough exercise to develop properly, because especially because I have, like my dogs, were involved in sports and we're involved in showing which, and they're bred for sports.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And they're bred for sports. Yeah, and they're bred for sports. Like I don't want my dogs to have forever have like bad fronts or or wonky hips because they because it's not just like oh, this is something that the borzoi community is like really anal about. It's like, literally, these dogs grow like 30 inches with like under a year yeah, you know there's.
Speaker 7:Yeah, they grow tall very.
Speaker 4:Their bones grow very fast and they need the muscles to support that bone development and if they don't get any off leash time they're not going to build up the muscles like, and you're not going to get that from walking, you're not going to even get that from a long line, because the bores always just their bodies are too fast for that if that makes sense like it would yank you um, so, yeah, so I taught her recall and the e-collar first, and it was um, and then I taught her leash pressure and everything and I think, um, and yeah, I don't even know if that's the route I'm gonna go with my, with my next dog right but it is does show me that like, hey, this is possible, like I trained raul in a completely different way from the way I trained irida, and they're both now off leash trained and we go on off leash walks, and that's's something that that capability aspect, those two big things literally just being able to walk nicely on leash without your arm being dislocated or you're breaking a hand, because so many Borzoi owners are old ladies who have these like 80 or 90 pound like wolfhounds.
Speaker 7:Yeah, dainty ladies.
Speaker 4:And they're just like I'm fine.
Speaker 7:And their dog runs and.
Speaker 4:I'm like you're not fine, so even just like leash pressure I won't even say, like a heel, just leash pressure, teaching them how to, that these dogs are capable of learning leash pressure and they are capable of coming back to you yeah I feel like that would. That's like the not there's so much more that you can train a dog, but even just those two things blows people's minds so anyway, that's what I want to focus on in my business. That's why I put down that I love that thing anyway cool.
Speaker 7:Thanks for chatting with me, yeah I don't know.
Speaker 4:So I like, took it over at the end.
Speaker 7:I talked like half, definitely, at least half the time yeah no, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cool, this is fun all right, guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode. I had so much fun at the retreat recording it with everybody, and it was really just a great opportunity to give people the chance to do something like this. Like, how often do you get a chance to record a podcast with friends on your special interest topic? So it was so much fun. We're going to be hosting another retreat here in the next year, probably around the same time in Joshua Tree, but I've also got a ton of other retreats and events coming up next year which y'all know. I will share with you as soon as we have the details situated. Just a reminder our next round of our virtual shadow program is starting on October 7th. We have just a few more slots open. If that's something you guys are interested in, you can visit the website and apply for a spot. As always, I appreciate you all so so much for being here and listening to us yap on about dogs. As always, I'll see you next week. Thank you, bye.