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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
Dog training growth + insights with our fav guy, Shane Murray
He's back and better than ever. This episode we chat with everyone's favorite dog trainer, Shane Murray to explore his evolution of his dog training biz and the importance of building a supportive community. Meg and Shane explore various training methods, the strengths of private sessions over board and train programs, and the value of mentorship. They discuss their upcoming shadow program, which combines practical training and business insights to help aspiring dog trainers develop their skills and sustain their careers.
• Shane shares his reflections on the past year in dog training
• Discussion on the effectiveness of board and train vs. private sessions
• Emphasis on the importance of owner education and empowerment
• Insights into the role of community and mentorship in dog training
• Breakdown of the upcoming shadow program
• Focus on preventing burnout through business systems and automation
Fill our your info below if you'd like to be the first to know about our next shadow program!
https://theeverydaytrainer.hbportal.co/public/6764aa009be3920030c423b2
If you'd like to join The Everyday Trainer January Virtual Shadow Program, click here.
Hello and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. Today, I am once again joined by Shane Murray. We're here to talk about all of his life updates over the past year, what he's got going on and what we've got planned for you for the future. So you know the drill grab yourself a tasty drink and meet us back here. This is a good one.
Speaker 2:Let's do it.
Speaker 1:Hello, hello, welcome back, shane.
Speaker 2:I always get confused. I'm like do I look at the camera? Do I look at you?
Speaker 1:I can't look at the camera, because I feel like it's two very different things being on a podcast and recording video Because when you're recording video, you're very worried about how you're looking or how you're being perceived visually, whereas I feel like with podcasts, I like to have the headphones, because it's like a very different thing that you have to pay attention to.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like I have to pay attention to like what I'm saying and how I sound, so I can't even that's a whole other world that I can't even acknowledge.
Speaker 2:I feel like when I look there I'm like breaking the wall.
Speaker 1:I'm going to start talking to the people.
Speaker 2:But when I'm gonna start talking to the people, yeah, but when I'm looking at you I feel like I'm talking to you, you know, yeah, a little different, but, yes, thank you for having me. Uh, welcome back to California thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you, how have you been? What have you got going on?
Speaker 2:uh, good, very busy. Um, I've started to do some new things within my business, so I've started to. I can't remember if I was doing boarding trains when you were here last time. I don't think you to. I can't remember if I was doing board and trains when you were here last time I don't think you were I can't remember, but I'm offering board and trains now.
Speaker 2:However, I typically don't do the board and trains. Yeah, um, a lot of people feel a type of way about this, but I've learned that I don't necessarily love doing board and trains with other people's dogs. Yeah, I really enjoy the private sessions. I really enjoy like making the owner the trainer. Yes, and yeah, that's something new that I've come to find out. However, I have an amazing trainer. Her name is kate best trainer out there, in my opinion.
Speaker 1:A little biased, but yes, best trainer out there and she's very good. Yeah, I said hold on to her. Yeah, even oscar, he's like hey, bro, watch out man. I was like hey bro, watch out, man.
Speaker 2:I was like no dude, she's mine, respectfully, kate, you're not mine, okay, but I will not let you go. But yeah, so she loves doing it and so she's been offering it and it's been going really really well.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:I feel like, honestly, when I pitch my board and trains, when I do the eval or the consultation over the phone, like I'm almost trying to get them not to do a board and train.
Speaker 1:Yes, like I am trying to.
Speaker 2:I'm like listen, like you may not need a board and train. So like there's only like a select, certain amount of clients who are kind of like you know what? Like I don't have the time to meet up with you every week, or I don't have the time to put in the necessary foundation with my which is totally okay, all right. Like some of these dogs take consistent work every single day and some people don't have the time. And so what are you going to tell them? No, we'll give the dog to somebody. No, you're going to try to make it happen.
Speaker 2:Try to keep the family together, the dog in the home, right. So I'm trying to pitch in. I'm like, listen, maybe we could just do private sessions, but there's some clients who are, like you know, like I don't have that time no, I, literally I.
Speaker 1:I talk about this all the time on this podcast. Is that, like I do not like board and trains for so many reasons? Like it's not that the program is like bad in itself? No, very helpful yes, it's just like one, not for everybody. I don't think everybody wants to send their dog away, you know and like if you don't want to like, you don't have to you know you can do lessons and like other things, so I'm usually they're super attached.
Speaker 2:I've seen people like, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1:It's super hard conversations. I'm like, look, I don't think you want to send your dog away, and that's okay we can do private lessons or, like we can do, daily trainings you know it's literally, it's not for everybody yeah but then sometimes you get dogs that it's like, hey, this would be so much better if I did a board and train because, it's really gonna suck some dogs need a crash course, like some dogs need 24 7, like it's really gonna be a lot for you to try to like behavioral mod through this, for sure, uh-huh especially full-time.
Speaker 2:Full-time job, yeah, like they're in the apartment complex elevator staircases and like they react as soon as they see it.
Speaker 2:Like some of the places aren't ideal to do a good behavior change right have you, have you like, learned anything specific since doing board and trains, though like having both sides of training um, in a sense yeah, I don't want this to sound wrong but in a sense sometimes I'm like, okay, like this is kind of easier than like I thought, in the sense of where, like I haven't had a dog that I've trained every single day besides my own dogs, and then I got a first born in training, I'm like, okay, two and a half weeks in I'm like you're a brand new dog and this isn't taken away from any owners or anything out there, but the value of having an actual trainer be the one with your dog 24 7.
Speaker 1:Well, you is super, you do that for a living you know, it's like I always use the analogy of paying an accountant to do your taxes I'm like bro if I try to do my taxes by myself like I'm literally, I'm literally going to jail. You know so like it's just so much more efficient. You know that you're not doing the wrong things when you pay an accountant.
Speaker 2:It's the same thing with dog training.
Speaker 1:You know like I have done this for the past seven years, so I hope that I'm a lot more efficient than you are. Yeah, you know, yeah, like than the owner no, for sure as you should be right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I say that one all the time they're like wow, they look so good with you and you're doing it so well. I'm like, listen, if your dog doesn't look better with your trainer, go find a new trainer, because the dog should absolutely look better with the trainer for majority of the time. Yes, right, and that's something that it's like. I don't think there's God given talented dog trainers. I think there's people who's trained a lot of dogs really well and people who haven't, and I tell it to the owners. I'm like, listen, like yeah, I'm good at it, but that's because I do it a lot. So guess what, if you just do it a lot, you're going to get good at it too, like it has nothing to do with, like oh well you're, you got the special talent for it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like people don't understand. Just the general population cannot fathom how much time you spend training your dogs like yeah like we were talking about this last night. I was, like you train your dogs more than literally anybody that I know. I, like you, are the one who should, who people should be going to for dog training because, like I have yet to meet other trainers that train as much as you do. I was on tiktok and I was like bro, like on live again.
Speaker 1:Shane is literally on live training his dog about to meet up tomorrow to train. Yeah, I'm like we just left training, we just left training dogs, you know, and you're like training dogs again and then you wake up like you are literally always training dogs yeah, but I I feel like that's where the passion comes. It's like oh yeah, no, I, I wouldn't rather any.
Speaker 2:That's the only way I could always do it like that's the only way. If I didn't have the passion, then no, it would be too much, it'd be a headache, but yeah and, like your, your community too, so your online training yeah, uh-huh you literally have everything yeah, you, and that that's something that I started doing so many videos of you training dogs. It's like hard to keep up with yeah, yeah, I gotta be careful with that, because sometimes it could get a little overwhelming.
Speaker 1:No, not even just that, but it's like how, how could any other trainer do that? You know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I feel you could do it right and like I believe this whole. I used to watch a lot of Gary V. Yes, I used to watch a ton of Gary V, and one of the big things he would say, he'd say you're not lazy, you're unmotivated and like because when I did my construction job, dude, I fucking hated it. I hate I would work hard just because, like, I feel like anything you're gonna do might as well do it right. Right, but towards the end I was like man, fuck, this, this is torture to me. Like I hate doing this shoveling concrete, breaking con, like I hated doing it and so like I would just be so lazy there.
Speaker 2:But I did find out that that started following me elsewhere. Then I started getting lazy in my dog training and then I was like holy shit, lazy is becoming a habit of mine. But once I started like really doing all the dog training, I have never felt like that. Yeah, of course there's some days where I'm like man, like I'm tired. I don't really feel like training my dogs tonight, but for the most part I'm like yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful.
Speaker 1:I'm super motivated that you should be the person that everybody's learning from. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's. It's one of those things and that's where, like, I get so much heat online for, like you know, using my tools and stuff like that, and a lot of people like they feel like there's you know one way to train a dog and I'm like I just don't think you've seen enough dogs.
Speaker 1:Because I have seen so many fucking dogs where, like things I thought I believed aren't true anymore, because I've just kept seeing new and different dogs and you cannot sit online and comment on what other people are doing because you are too busy actually training your dogs. What a wild concept there.
Speaker 2:I actually got dogs to train, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I think the passion goes along with it. But I think at the same point too, I also kind of made slim a little crackhead for training yeah because I trained him so much. And that's where oscar was like bro, next time get two fucking puppies. He's like you want to train so bad, just train two different dogs.
Speaker 1:I was like, yeah, that's not a bad idea, you know you're making sense, right, but there's definitely um a pitfall that you could fall into if you're training dogs too much yeah right, but no I just this is a thing, this is a thing that people do yeah, absolutely I come across a lot of them and I'm like you need to even even just pet owners you're doing too much yeah they're like oh, five walks a day and we play fetch for three hours.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm like hey, like I don't think your dog needs all that yeah.
Speaker 1:So you were like that, like a million training sessions a day like whole life revolved around your puppy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's it. But again, I enjoy it. Yeah, like I enjoy it and that's why I would do it so much. Right, but I think you lose out on, like the pet life, yes, where it's like hey, let's just go on a hike. No, let's focus, heel. Sometimes I miss out on that part and, honestly, like honest, honest to the universe like some of my favorite moments with my dogs is when we're just off leash, walking a giant park or walking, you know, hiking or something like that, like that's what. Like when I see them jumping off the shit and chasing each other and like grabbing a stick, I'm like like it feels really, um, it feels really peaceful and I'm like I'm not struggling on your focusing, I'm not trying to fix some shit, I'm not trying to perfect something.
Speaker 1:We're just kind of like see, that's existing that's what you need to do with that one dog yeah, you just need to exist with it.
Speaker 2:You're trying too hard. Yeah, no, it happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's kind of funny because I feel like we say all the same things around like dog training, like at the end of the day it's not, it doesn't have to be that complicated, you know, as long as you have like the basics, like your marker words and you know your leash pressure and like where we correct the dogs and like when we would correct the dogs. But we are kind of like opposites as far as like trainers go yeah, yeah, yeah, but it like you love, you love obedience.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, yeah, you love obedience I dread obedience.
Speaker 1:I'm like, no, let's just go for a hike.
Speaker 2:No, that's, it's a sport dog training I don't want to do sick.
Speaker 1:It's so boring it's so like repetitive.
Speaker 2:It's like a very different pace uh-huh, but I I think a big part of it too is like offering something to the owner to work on oh yeah, you know like yeah, for sure they like, especially when they see me doing it, they're like well, can my dog do a focus too? Yeah, let's fucking, let's see, let's try, let's figure it out right.
Speaker 2:So I definitely think um. A lot of people sometimes like they want to take it, like okay, well, I know it's a pet dog, but can they do this, can they do that? And I'm always like you can try you know you're doing something like engaging with the dog a little bit different using their brain, yeah but again, I think, if that's all you do, that's where it makes them crack heads, uh-huh, and I think it gets too much for them.
Speaker 2:Where they need time, we're like, hey, let's just go on a walk. And you know, you're kind of like, not even in a heel, you're just in front of me and that's why my flexes I've been using my flexes a ton. I'm just, hey, we're just on a flexi walk yeah we're just kind of walking and existing together.
Speaker 2:But I think those, uh, those moments are super valuable and like I feel soup, like way at peace, when I'm just like okay, like I don't even have food or toy, like nothing. I'm just walking with my dogs and they're running around fucking you know no rules and shit. But yeah.
Speaker 1:I really enjoy that stuff, so I've been starting to kind of go back into doing stuff like that nice, you know it's good for them it's good for everybody I make toma do it and like no, this is a calm walk, because he is his dog you know, yeah, he's just like a little crackhead little malwa yeah, he like can't sit still and he's like just wandering around I know the feeling you gotta stand still this is a calm walk like everybody's standing still. You know we have to act how we want the dogs to act and he's like literally like squirming out of his skin.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh my gosh yeah, um, no, it's, it's tough, especially when, like I feel but I feel like that's a a common thing with dog trainers Like I feel like almost all of us are really like, uh, at least the good ones driven and sometimes it's hard to turn it off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's not like it's not a directly rewarding thing. Like it's, the reward is. Like far in the future you know. So you have to have that like self motivation to just like just continue to show up every day and train the dog and know that it's going to work, even if you don't see it in that moment, kind of the long-term payoff mindset of working out. If you continue to work out you are going to get better. Are you going to see it day to day?
Speaker 1:No, not at all it's going to take a really, really long time, so you're going to have to do it for a long time with no reward not at all you know. So I feel like dog trainers understand that, understand like the behavior of that and like long term rewards.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah and I feel what really really helps me going with that is being confident I'm doing the right thing. When I was first starting out, like I didn't have like a real mentor or anything, so like I'm like trial and error and I'm like fuck, like, do I keep doing this thing? Because I think it's going to work, but I'm not too sure. But like now, kind of where I'm at for the most part, I'm like OK, I know it's going to work, I just got to keep doing it, yeah. So like there's two different feelings there, when I'm like, well, fuck, yeah, I'm going to keep doing the work, but am I doing the right work? And I think that's where nowadays there's so many communities and patrons and things like that where you could look and you could see people like me, people like you, who have been like, hey, yeah, I tried doing it like that before and that shit doesn't work, so don't even waste your time doing it like that, do it like this yeah and you could avoid all that.
Speaker 2:You know what if you know type deal with a client and you could avoid that by, you know, subscribing to new communities and patreon I'm subscribing at least to shane's community.
Speaker 2:I have but like even me, dude. I know I have at least five subscriptions with other trainers. Yes, at least five, whether it's on most of them are on Patreon. I want to say but I have at least five subscriptions with other trainers. And again, like I haven't been doing this that long, only about five years, but just five years ago there wasn't a lot of Patreons or things like that that were widely advertised. Yeah, maybe there was, but I just didn't know about it.
Speaker 1:No, I mean mean they definitely weren't. This is a very new thing and also I think it's gonna just continue to grow even more yep you know, which could be good, could be bad, right?
Speaker 2:no, I think it's.
Speaker 1:I think it's good because, like in the grand scheme of things, you have well, let's talk about it your community. When did you start that?
Speaker 2:oh I, I am horrible with years. It was sometime last year. It had to be like beginning of the year. I would say yeah, because I had it. I just lagged on like uploading anything to it.
Speaker 1:OK, yeah. So, when I came out here.
Speaker 2:I was out here in october uh-huh so probably around like a year I think it was around when I did I did a workshop in san jose because I remember being like, oh, I'm putting all this shit on the community now, yeah, and that's when I started uploading everything on there.
Speaker 2:Um, but yeah, there's a ton of shit on there, but the benefit to that stuff, guys, is like you don't have to make the same mistakes that I made. Like you could like learn from it and be like okay, well, I am going to try it, like this with this dog instead, because this is you know what shane or fucking whoever. It is okay, I hate, I hate sounding corny and like keep trying to like put myself there, right, but like I'm just trying to put across the point that, like there's so many sources to learn from nowadays that I I tend to say this it doesn't, it doesn't have to take you 10 years to learn 10 years of knowledge yes I think with how much shit there is out there, dude, if you fucking, if you nerd out and you start reading and fucking watching all these videos, paying for these subscriptions, paying for these workshops, like there's so many things online that are just even five years ago weren't as accessible yeah.
Speaker 1:So you've got your, you've done a shadow program, we've started board and trains yeah community. What else have you done in the past year?
Speaker 2:um my workshops, but I've kind of been on and off with the workshops, but the shadow program was very fun.
Speaker 1:I I honestly feel like I like training trainers the most yeah, I think I like training trainers more than I like training my own dogs yes like it's something where I'm like like this you can like have real conversations with people, yeah, and it's it's stress, stress free, because it's not my dog.
Speaker 2:yes, when it's my dog, I'm like man, fucking do it right. Like, come on like it's stress-free because it's not my dog. Yes, when it's my dog, I'm like man, fucking do it right, like come on Like it's stressful. But when it's not my dog, I'm like hey, listen, relax.
Speaker 1:Like, come on, let's get to it.
Speaker 2:It's not that big of a deal, but like try it like this, right, but I truly the Shadow program was very, very fun. I've I'll do that that. I really enjoy training trainers because it's mostly who came, which I think is very, very good for them.
Speaker 1:How many did you run?
Speaker 2:I've done two. I've done two, I believe two so far. My first one I had about seven people and my second one I had three people and for the most part, both groups were like beginning dog trainers, which, again, guys, I've only been doing this for five years. Ok, I haven't been doing it for that long, so it's not like I know everything under the sun, but I know a good amount and I think I know enough for, like beginning dog trainers to come up and learn a ton, even if they haven't even touched a dog. Just hearing all the things that you know, I've gone through with certain dogs and the things that I've learned Like, I think you get like a, like a headstart program.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Right Type deal.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think it's also very valuable because, like you're still very like, relevant to all of it, you're not some just like person who had a dog training company you know 10 years ago.
Speaker 2:It's like you're teaching people what you're doing now. Oh yeah, like actively currently doing it okay, here's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know like here's what, but that that's why again.
Speaker 2:I have so many videos on the community because I'm training a lot of dogs and it's all getting up there. I know, and this is something you guys like if you're a dog trainer, you're just starting out, the best advice I could give you is fucking start recording your sessions, record them and post them. Just record them and post them. I social media has been the biggest help to my career, right aside from actually doing the work, but social media has helped it launch like, I think, even last year I I didn't have the following Like I've had. I grew pretty big following within the past year, right.
Speaker 2:And the whole idea of this, guys, is like the followers isn't super important, but what comes with the followers is more people seeing your stuff, more people getting help from the videos you're posting, right. And then the more trainers I help, the more trainers that help other trainers help. The more trainers that help other trainers, the more trainers that help other dogs right, I got clients that become trainers. Right, I got clients that start training their, their cousins dogs, right. And so, yeah, you, like you don't have to be a social media dog trainer like it's not a lot of people's gig. Like you don't, absolutely don't have to do that. But I feel like the more people that my shit, the more sense that's going to be put in the dog world.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Right, and that's also why I get so much like internal reward from like helping trainers is because I'm like, all right, inadvertently I'm helping more dogs.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:I'm going to teach you the things and then you can go out and like train more dogs. Yeah, it's just like exponential.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it just keeps spreading. But like we can't sit here and bitch and moan about the dog community when we're not like making an effort to try to like change it and show them something different. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think, uh, the social media stuff, it's a chore sometimes, guys like, sometimes very frustrating but very frustrating.
Speaker 1:But I think doing it is going to really really help your business get growing.
Speaker 2:It's going to bring a lot of validity to your business. I know knowledge is bouncing around, so it happens when you're the queen, but yeah, it brings a lot of validity to your business, especially nowadays. Like I could only imagine, like 15, 20 years ago, like what would be better than being like oh, I could actually see the work that you do. I don't have to hear about it, I don't have to read about it, I could literally see the work that you like. That is, that's everything. I bet 20 years ago people like it would blow their minds that I could literally see the work that you do yes, that's when.
Speaker 1:When I'm like coaching dog trainers, like on the business side of things, that's what I tell them.
Speaker 1:Social media is there for. I'm like social media is your portfolio, like it is your proof of how you train dogs, like somebody should be able to see your dogs and like the way that they're trained and see you work with other dogs and like the way that you train before they start working with you. So, like, whenever I'm doing like consultation calls or like even in in-personperson consultation, I'm always like go and follow me on social media before you decide to work with me. You need, we need to make sure that you like me before we start working together. And that's like, every time I make a post or something, like that's who I'm making it for. And I feel like when you uh, you know, like talk about it in that way it's less intimidating for people because they think like, oh my gosh, I'm putting something, something out there that like everybody's going to see, and it's like just focus, not on everybody, but just focus on, like, the people that you want to help. You know, like that's it.
Speaker 2:Just one want to help.
Speaker 1:You know, like that's it just one. All you need is one. Don't talk to other dog trainers, don't? You know, like you're in your dog bubble, what you see other dog trainers post, like it's two other dog trainers. You know, like you need to post to the people that your business is helping yeah you know which I think is what you do really good with and like why your social media has like exploded so much you know yeah because, like you show you working the dogs and you're talking to the people that you're trying to help yeah, and I even do that within the post where I'm like listen, this is to my trainers.
Speaker 2:yeah, right, and like I'm like making it specific to like kind of who I'm talking to. But yeah, I think, I think it's super helpful. Man, I'm super grateful for social media TikTok going away. I'm like, man, my TikTok engagement went down but it's still quite frustrating. Yeah, right, but again too, this is, this is what I've accepted. Like this is how I get a lot of clients. I don't do a lot of advertisements or things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So like I have made it part of the job, yeah and that's, but you've grown your Instagram like massive. Yeah, uh huh, you know you'll be fine. No, totally fine, totally fine.
Speaker 1:But it's still something that like yeah, it started with zero followers, guys Like you can do it you just got to you, just got to it man, I mean when I, I like, lost my tiktok and I literally had like an identity crisis. Yeah, because like, not only is that, that's like the only app that I like consume content on is tiktok, so it didn't know like who I was anymore.
Speaker 1:And then you're like, oh my gosh tiktok without an algorithm is horrible, but I had just started posting and it was how I like blew up my instagram so I had like 6 000 followers for like a really long time and I was just running like blew up my Instagram. So I had like 6,000 followers for like a really long time and I was just running my dog training business and then I would just post me training clients, dogs and that's how I would send updates. I'd be like every Monday through Friday I'm going to post all my stories of me training the dogs.
Speaker 1:So then, like it just kind of like all my posts, all my stories, like everything was just to update owners of like here's what we're doing, here's why I do this with your dog. Like here's what we would do with this. And then I started posting on tiktok and something went viral and then I got I went from like 6 000 followers to like 100 000 followers in like five days that's crazy yeah yeah, but it was just from one tiktok post and the reason it went viral isn't even because of like anything dog training it was.
Speaker 1:My leash was like frayed and it looked like there was like a bug on me. Oh my god. And so you know, on tiktok, like some random videos will just like pop off yeah um, and everybody was like oh my God, what's on her shoulder? And so it was just like comments and comments and comments.
Speaker 1:And then, luckily, I was working at my social media for like a long time. Um, so when people found me through that post, like my followers stuck right Cause they're like, oh shit, she has like actually a lot of valuable content here. Yeah, you know, which is what I tell new trainers too I'm like look, it just takes one post for like your accounts to blow up. But if you don't have anything there, nobody's staying, nobody's staying you know so like you just need to keep posting and there's no reward there's no reward.
Speaker 2:Sometimes you know like like nothing.
Speaker 1:You just have to keep posting and posting and posting and you're like you just don't know, Like you have no idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you, just you have to post everything. Yeah, post everything you don't know. You don't get to decide what's going to be a good video.
Speaker 1:You have no idea.
Speaker 2:You have no idea, you post everything, like I posted the videos of slim chomping. They go crazy, right, but you have to post everything. I'm not a huge fan on purposely posting controversial stuff yeah I'm not a oh well, let's stir the pot to get engagement type of person yeah I like just posting like organic shit and like helpful shit, yeah to where they're like, yeah, like that's helpful, that's relatable, you know, and so it starts to take off.
Speaker 2:But that's kind of where I I drop off right there like I post everything but I don't try to like post controversial shit to try to get people talking shit yeah, I have like I've started integrating like a couple values.
Speaker 1:I was like, all right, I don't want to, I don't want to post it unless it's like positive, transparent, like I go through this. And then I did make that doodle post because I got that text message that day and that lady just really pissed me off and I couldn't find her in my followers. So I was like I'm just gonna post this, yeah, um.
Speaker 1:And then I was like this isn't very positive of me I did get a lot of like attention, but I also got a lot of negative attention and people were like I hate you, I'm unfollowing you and I was like well, yeah, yeah, yeah, no. But I think that's a little.
Speaker 2:I don't think that was just pure controversy, no, but it's like it wasn't, it didn't have, like the best intentions I knew.
Speaker 1:I knew what it was going to do, you know. So now I'm like all right, I'm not gonna do that anymore, like I do think that it's important to just like stay as positive as you can you know, yeah, no, I I try my best.
Speaker 2:Even when I'm replying to a stupid comment, I'm like, okay, like I'm gonna still be respectful and we'll still be cool, because I'm gonna show y'all motherfuckers that we can do it. You don't have to pop your top off on every negative comment and go fucking go on a comment rampage like you don't have to. You can take a deep breath. Okay, I'm gonna learn you something right now it's just, it's reactivity.
Speaker 1:For sure dude, it's just reactivity, but I feel it too, like seeing so many negative comments all the time.
Speaker 2:I'm kind of defensive when I see a comment that's a little sideways and it's because I'm just so used to like all the comments, like kind of not all of them. You guys show a lot of love and I appreciate it, but there's definitely a lot of I love when you break.
Speaker 1:I'm tired when Shane breaks the fourth wall.
Speaker 2:A little dead pull out here, dead pull. But yeah so like there's a lot of them and sometimes I'm a little defensive and I have to catch myself. I'm like, hey, they probably don't even mean it like that man, Just because the last 100 people meant it like that doesn't mean they do it.
Speaker 2:I have to catch myself sometimes, but yeah, so I try to keep everything fairly positive and educational. You're going to learn something Like you're going to learn something off every video I post. Yeah Right, whether you learn how cool something looks or you're going to learn how to do something.
Speaker 2:You're going to learn something and I try to keep it that way. But again, I feel like that's where I get a lot of followers who become clients. I'm not out there making a fool of myself trying to talk shit to trainers and fucking start drama like who wants to hire that trainer? No, that's not that professional. Like nobody wants to see you know the person they're hiring doing stuff like that yeah right, so I try to keep it professional. Like my clients are looking at this, I'm still going to be me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I'm going to be full but exactly that's what I'm saying is, people need to put that in their mind whenever they are making their content is like it's for your clients. It's literally for nobody else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know trainers aren't going to be like oh wow, yeah, I'm gonna hire you. No, the train just don't even think about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah everything has to be for the clients, okay, so you did your tell me what, like um, your shadow program looked like um, well, compared to yours, it kind of seemed more militant compared to the uh way oh mine is fun time, uh-huh, and mine, mine, wasn't so much fun time it was fun
Speaker 2:but was just, it wasn't the way that you did yours, which I really liked the way that you did yours as well, but I am just so much of a I'm a dog nerd, so like I'm like, okay, we're going to lecture, we're going to work dogs, we're going to watch videos of dogs being worked, like that's what we're gonna do the whole time, right, and so, um, it was good, it was definitely fun. It, like all all my students I feel like, learned a ton, and I'm still in contact with a lot of them. What's up, guys, I'm still in contact with a lot of them, right. So I definitely like it as bringing a community together.
Speaker 2:Yes, where now it's like okay, cool, I just dropped off a fresh 10 set of people into the dog community who have a good idea about dog stuff and aren't just, you know, completely wrong or completely ignorant, arrogant, whatever you want to call it to like actual dog training and I showed him it like I had We'd have like a client come down that I've never met before and I would show them how I go about a first session. Ok, so the dog's trying to eat me this is how go about that. Okay, the dog's scared of me. This is how I go. Okay, the dog's super friendly, too friendly, and very reactive and jumping on this how I go, so like they got to see it firsthand. The stuff that you don't get to see on social media, right.
Speaker 2:The ins and outs, the boring shit, right and so they got to see it firsthand and and I think that's super helpful because I know, when I was first starting like maybe like two a year into training, like I'm looking at videos, but I would see a lot of videos of really trained dogs I'm like, okay, I see what you're telling me, but my dog never does what your dog's doing. Right now. My dog's still at the end of the leash, reacting, and he's not taking food and he's not taking a toy. So what do I do then? Right, so you see a lot of stuff that, yeah, you could learn, but it's not always a hundred percent applicable, because, not, the dogs are all the same.
Speaker 2:So I bring down these dogs who I've never been training before. I'm like, okay, this is how we would handle it from scratch. Yeah, right, and so I think that's super helpful for them to see, cause you don't really get to see that. And then I had clients come down who I have been working and I'm like, okay, this is what it looks like when we start, this is what it looks like when we're in the middle of the process and I'm showing them okay, that's why we did those drills on this dog, because now look how this dog handles these situations. Because we use those drills so they get to see the progression of the dogs, and so we did that. And then the fun bite work stuff. Everybody loves getting bit by the boys, right, it's got to be a dog person thing, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1:no, I loved that, everybody loved that. Oh yeah, they're at your workshop. That was everybody's favorite part, yeah and I think it's super fun. Um, I'm grateful everybody trusts me to let my dogs do that but to be fair, I feel like who you are as a person. If somebody signed up for a shadow program with you, like of course yours is different than mine, you know, like you have, that's true, they know you, it was expected. Yeah, yeah, that's true, that's very true yeah, you didn't like take anybody like by surprise with that I'm sure, like they knew what
Speaker 2:they were signing up for yeah, that's true, and I guess that's also another really good reason to be organic with your content. So, like they're like yeah, I expected that you're not. Like you're not like selling people, it's like.
Speaker 1:Here's how I am, if you would like to work with me amazing this is like you have a general expectation of what that's going to be like yeah, because that's the thing too.
Speaker 2:People like some of these people that are on social media. You meet them in person and you're like what the fuck like? You are not who you are on social media I haven't.
Speaker 1:I haven't met any other like social media people.
Speaker 2:I don't think yeah, no, I've met a couple. And some I was like, okay, yeah, you're exactly are. And some I was like, oh, yeah, you got, you're exactly hiring. Some I was like, no, yeah, you got a whole facade going.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So like it's something where, like I make sure I'm myself. So when you meet me you're like yeah, that's Shane, that's totally what I expected. You know totally Shane, yeah Right, so organic content is super important. But yeah, I really liked your shadow program stuff where you were doing it wasn't like all dog stuff no, well, I basically so I did my retreat, which was different from my shadow program.
Speaker 1:I did a long shadow program in january or february of last year in florida, and that was when that was my long one. So that was basically like I'm taking you on as a trainer and like we're just gonna work board and trains you know.
Speaker 1:So that one was like wake up in the morning we would bring a van full of dogs to the house which were like our board and train dogs, and then we would just train them. You know, I would walk all the girls through like how we would train them, we would do walking drills, e-collar, you know, and just progressed over the week. So they got to see dogs from like start to finish. They got to see dogs like that were ready to go home, like dogs at all different levels, different types of dogs, and it was like the same dogs every day, you know. And so like, by the end, like everybody knew the dog so well, which is very similar to how a board and train is. So I wanted it to be like a board and train basically. But part of a board and train which we were kind of talking about earlier of people are doing too much. I think people do too much in board and train programs.
Speaker 1:So my board and train program is like I'm very slow and methodical in all of my training. I think I'm changing that slow and methodical in all of my training. I think I'm like changing that a little bit. So I did that with the trainers, right, I was like we're going to do some sort of physical activity in the morning, go for a long walk, go for a long hike, you know some sort of activity. Come back, we would like have breakfast together. We would take the dogs out, do active training sessions, um, you know, then go and do lunch and then we would do like the afternoon training sessions and then, like we would do our nighttime routine, have dinner and then have like a group discussion type thing yeah so it was very like it was a lot, but it was was very.
Speaker 1:I don't rush anything. We take our time from step to step. You know, like that's kind of my whole like mentality around training. So I just ran these dog trainers through their own board and train essentially. And then for my retreat. It was more like vacation-y.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So no dogs for that one. We did have our own personal dogs which, like we would have, like we had keela, like the little working male that we have um for working with mike, with um and so like.
Speaker 1:We taught the girls like how to play tug right, because a lot of the trainers at the retreat were kind of like me in that it's like slow, methodical, like we're not amping the dogs up a lot so to teach them. The other side of that of like here's how you play with dogs, which I think is what you're really good at and like why we balance each other out very well, is like even the other day when you were walking me through, like playing tug, you know it's like. See, that's shit that people need to know. You know it's like, see, that's shit that people need to know. People need to know how to like properly like play tug with their dogs and like not be, you know, having bad mechanics essentially it's contagious man yeah, you know it's like yeah, of course, this is like extremely valuable um.
Speaker 1:So yeah, it was cool, we got to do that and then more. So talk about like the dog training business side of things.
Speaker 1:So that's where I got to talk about, like you know, here's all the systems that you need in place. Here's how I run a sales call. Here's how I like think about what I want to do for my business, like how I want structure it, how much I want to charge, how many dogs I want to take on, like showing them. The back end side of the business was more so the retreat, um, but I feel like yours are very like dog trainer focused, like you're going to learn so much about dog and I think that that is valuable too.
Speaker 2:And that's the dog trainer, dog barking down. Good boy, son, you listened the first time. All the time you guys saw that video proof you always listen. Yeah right, and this one walking all over the stuff. Come here, girl, come here, favorite spot oh, she's so that's why I couldn't have like a well, she is my dog, but she's like she's obviously my girlfriend's dog, but yeah, she is, is my dog, but like if I had my own, my own, oh, it might be bad.
Speaker 1:Oh, a tiny dog. Oh my gosh, I might have like a bag for it. Yeah, no, the bag that Jordy has. I would have that. I was like this is what I want. Like you, walking around with your little tiny dog is like my favorite thing ever.
Speaker 2:This is. It was very militant, right, it was very much so like opera conditioning, classical conditioning, like we're talking about it, but I definitely see the the necessity for having something that's a little bit more relaxed. Yeah, it's like, okay, like cool. I just fucking word vomit to you guys for the past three hours.
Speaker 2:That's a lot uh-huh now let's, let's do a little activity where we're just kind of hanging out and you know, chit-chatting and doing things like that. So I've definitely see where and I'm sorry. I'm sorry to my past status too, because I see it in their eyes, dude like you could love dog training, you could love it, like I I've done.
Speaker 2:I've went to a michael ellis uh seminar, like that, and it was like five or six days and like the, the dog training, god to me is in front of me and I'm getting lost and I'm like man, I have been sitting down for too long and I'm in this classroom and I am getting lost, and so I see the value of having like these, these extracurricular activities yes, right, yes, no.
Speaker 1:uh, I had like a a slight panic after your workshop because I had like a trainer that I was hanging out with. She told me that she like got in trouble with her old boss because she was talking during the one of her workshops and I was like I would, I was like I like I was talking during Shane's. Do you think, is that a? Thing, Do you think he hates me? No, but I was like I can't sit still for that long.
Speaker 2:No, it's tough, it is super tough, dude I was like I feel like he would understand that you know. Yeah, no, it is super tough and again, that's the value of like okay, let's fucking stand up and we're going to do this. You know, we're going to do this buddy drill or whatever.
Speaker 1:All right break.
Speaker 2:It's all like. I definitely see the value in that.
Speaker 1:No, I had to give people a lot of downtime because also, too, you are very used to the dog life.
Speaker 2:Like it is. That's true.
Speaker 1:It's kind of like shocking to an average person who's not living the dog trainer life. It's like we take care of dogs the moment we wake up to when we go to bed. Yeah, if you don't take a break, you're gonna lose your mind, you know.
Speaker 2:So I was very big about like, all right, our break, our lunch you know when everybody starts to check out yeah, because I'm like, I get it, this is a lot yeah and I know again, I know I go to where I still I try to go as many workshops and seminars as I can like as a, you know, as a an audit spot or working spot, and it gets like that when you start you're like, fuck man, like this is tough. Yeah, it's hard to keep paying attention mike runs.
Speaker 1:I really like how he runs, like his workshops um mike jones with primal canine I went to his workshop last year and I was like, wow, this is perfect. He had like little rotations right of like, okay, we're gonna do this thing now. Was that? Was that the fight?
Speaker 1:yes, the fight workshop, but that's how he runs all of his things. It's like because he's like, no, I can't sit still for that long, like I can't expect other people, so it's like, okay, a little workshop, and then we take a break, and then a little workshop, and then we take a break, and a little workshop, and then we take a break and I was like this is perfect, I learned so well. Like this, like I can actually like focus, but when you have to like sit in a classroom and like listen to like someone talk about a topic, like I cannot do that it's tough, it's tough, it's super tough the, the michael ellis one that you went to.
Speaker 2:That was with the doctor stewart hillard yes yeah, that one was, it was I bet that was dense it was very good, a lot of information because, like, they definitely know what they're talking about, but like, oh my god it was a lot of shit, but like I like dr stewart because he's like he's a I don't I don't know if he's called a scientist or whatever he is, but he has his phd, so he's a scientist, right yes, yeah, okay so, yeah, he's assigned, but he's also a military.
Speaker 2:He was working for the dod, so that's the department of defense. So he was a military dog trainer, yeah. And so I like seeing, okay, well, you actually training dogs and you're a scientist, right? That tells me you're going to know both sides of the spectrum.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see, that's kind of what I want to do. Yeah, like I went to school, I could get my master's if I went back for a year, no shit. I feel like I'll be like all right, that's not bad dude. I know.
Speaker 2:A year, that's it A year.
Speaker 1:That's it. Yeah, like I wanted to get my PhD. How does that?
Speaker 2:work. You could just choose whatever you want to get your master's in, or Well, I was getting my master's in biology. Oh, okay, so you would just finish that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I would finish that with maybe like an like I would try to find like an animal behavior lab that I could work with. Because what's really important when you're in your graduate program or like, if you're getting your phd, is what research you're doing, and that's why that guy is so knowledgeable is because, like, yeah, that's his special interest, that's he. He's been like researching like day in and day out for the past. Probably minimum, like I mean, how old is he?
Speaker 1:oh, I'm not too sure, but a long, probably like his whole life, you know because what you do is you like you go to school and then you're typically in like a research lab in your undergrad and then you get into the same sort of research lab in your graduate program and then it just like keeps going into like your doctorate and then your postdoc. So he's probably been studying that for literally his entire I think he's still.
Speaker 2:I know that's what's so like impressive. Yeah, no, it was very informative, um very similar to you know, uh, uh, canine decoded dr melanie no, I don't know who that is. No, she, she's been poet, she does a lot of scientific stuff too, and she's been like she'll go back and she'll go to like a force-free uh research paper and she'll like go through it all. She's like well, this is why it's not the best, the best example.
Speaker 1:Does she ever doctorate? She has something she has some sort of that should be me, I should do that.
Speaker 2:But I don't think it's related to canine behavior. It's like a general animal behavior. Thing.
Speaker 1:It's probably like a biology thing.
Speaker 2:So something like that. I'm so yeah, okay, I did like talking to the front of your mic. I did like a month not the top the front the front. Oh, there we go. You see, sounds a lot better way better. I have to remind people yeah, um, I lost my train of thought, but sorry.
Speaker 1:No, that's okay the research um melanie yeah, she does a lot of um.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not gonna remember it that's okay but she does a lot of good stuff right and it's important to see like both sides of the spectrum. Yes, right like like you have to and some of it, um, some of it feels good too, like because, like going, you know, when I went down there with them, I'm like oh, I'm doing that with yeah, you're like, oh nice, nice I had a few validating.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's very validating, like some of the shit I'm like I I knew what I was doing was right, I just didn't know exactly why it was working, but I had a really good fucking idea.
Speaker 2:But like that's where that scientific, all that research, all that shit, like you read as much of it as you can, right? Yeah, I think it. It definitely helps you become a better dog trainer, but I think even more so helps you explain it to clients in a simpler version. Yes, if you really really know it. Yes, right, so like I'm able to, I don't have to say operant conditioning not one fucking time to a client, and I'm able to. I don't have to say operant conditioning not one fucking time to a client, and I'm able to explain exactly what it is, and they don't even know they're learning operant conditioning.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Right, but like that's where it stays, really simple for them and they're like oh OK, I can keep doing that. Yeah, I totally understand it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but that kind of shows that you're like an expert at what you're doing is that you can simplify complex things you know super valuable yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know if I would say expert you don't think you're an expert in dog training I guess define what's an expert, because I feel like like a guy like michael ellis is an expert, right?
Speaker 2:because like, if there's an expert, well, what comes after expert? Right? Because, like, if there's expert, well what comes after expert? Yeah, I guess. So I don't. I I think I think I'm um very educated within dog training, but I don't know if I would say like I feel like expert is like you're all right, all right, we're being, we're being humble I don't know it's, but this is uh well educated in dog training.
Speaker 1:dog training, yeah, very much so.
Speaker 2:I'm super, super confident in it, so confident I don't have to argue with people in my comments about when they're telling me I'm doing it wrong. I'm like you know, what I'm doing it wrong, that's okay.
Speaker 1:I'm doing it wrong.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, I definitely think that's super important. And again, this is something we go through in the shadow programs, where I'm like listen, this is how you need to talk to clients, right, you cannot give them too much to, where they're just so overloaded with information. They forgot everything you told them, like, you have to give them a little at a time and you have to be articulate on how you give it to them, right, they have to understand it. It has to be super simple.
Speaker 1:It has to be so simple.
Speaker 2:Super simple.
Speaker 1:You have to understand it. It has to be super simple.
Speaker 2:It has to be so simple. Super simple, that's like my whole virtual shadow program is. I'm like dog training does not need to be rocket science.
Speaker 1:The simpler that we can make it the more sustainable it is for people, and I feel like people get like they freeze up because they don't know what to do.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And I'm like just do anything. If you like, you will figure out if that works, if you try it yeah you know, just try it. You know that's okay, you're allowed to just like try things um, but yeah, people get very hung up on like well, I don't know if that's like the perfect way to do the thing, and so then I don't do it.
Speaker 1:And dog trainers too, I think yeah like dog trainers, um can sometimes always be in the like oh my gosh, I need to know more. I need to know more. So whenever I'm like working with newer dog trainers, I'm like you have to put your shoes in the in like the role of your client right so like your client doesn't really know that much like they're they're. They don't even know that they like should be creating their like reactive dog. That's like barking at the window all day.
Speaker 1:So like, when you help them with that and you crate train the dog and like, teach the dog to settle in the crate, like that's going to drastically change that person's life and it's such a simple concept you know of like, oh yeah, this is how we do crate training, like every dog trainer should know how to do that. So, yeah, I feel like new trainers. You often get like oh my gosh, I don't know anything. I know I don't think I can like help anybody.
Speaker 1:Yet you know, yeah, but, I feel like, in the same way that you are in a good position to help new dog trainers, because you're right there yeah, you know still doing it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like you're still doing it.
Speaker 1:So it's the same thing with new dog trainers and like working with owners. It's like you're still doing it. Yeah, like you're still doing it. So it's the same thing with new dog trainers and like working with owners.
Speaker 2:It's like you're still doing it.
Speaker 1:You know, you were right there you were right there in that position where you were like struggling with your dog or like didn't know what to do, and like you took the time and you, you know, got educated and now you know the things and like you can help people not make the same mistakes that you made right and again like that's where, like these other like these other patrons and stuff, like you guys could see this information already and you don't like, dude, when I first started, I would fucking I'd explain operant conditioning, classical conditioning, fucking learning theory to the clients and give them all this crazy homework.
Speaker 2:And I've fucking my sessions be like two hours long and then I see him next week. I'm like, okay, so did you? You know, practice the markers and doing all this and they didn't do much of anything right. And I'm like, okay, I gave you way too much. Yeah, I gave you way too fucking much, but I had to learn that on my own.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had to learn that it wasn't an efficient way to train the people like that yeah right, and so that's something like through these shadow programs, like being able to offer that to new trainers. I feel like it's super viable because I'm like, hey, yeah, don't fucking talk their ear off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's very interesting because I got into the industry through dog walking.
Speaker 2:Uh huh.
Speaker 1:So I didn't know all the terms but I knew the stuff, the people, you know, like I knew, what was what was sustainable for people. People you know, like I knew, what was what was sustainable for people also, too, because I saw them every day and I was like in their homes, yeah, with their dogs and I'm like I know what you're doing with this dog, yeah this dog shows me in its behavior every single day and I see you like in the home, doing these things um and like I was like doing the things but I didn't really know like the words behind, like what?
Speaker 2:I was doing, I was like oh, this just works there's what we're doing, you know like negative reinforcement.
Speaker 1:I was like I was just training dogs through negative reinforcement because everybody didn't even know what. Yeah, everybody's like my dog won't take food and it's like, okay, well, your dog is overfed, yeah yeah, if you want to motivate them. You're gonna have to feed them less, and like that would never happen. As a dog walker, you know like.
Speaker 1:So I was just like all right, we got leash pressure, so we're just gonna, you know like train this dog through leash pressure and then it's like, oh well, when I became an actual dog trainer, it's like, yeah, I'm just doing like negative reinforcement, that like makes sense.
Speaker 1:You know this is yeah, this is like what we're doing, okay, yeah, um, so like I feel like you get both camps of people. You get the people who are just like training dogs all the time and like working with the people all the time that don't even know like any of the scientific stuff. And then you have the people who have like spent so much time researching and watching and like taking in as much information as possible and they're like I know all of the theory.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, I know all of the theory yeah. You know, I know all of the theory. But just don't know how to like apply it to real people.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh, that's where.
Speaker 1:And that's what we're going to help you with.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:In our future shadow program.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:So I feel like we're going to have a great shadow program, because we do balance each other out nicely in our approaches to training, um, and like how we communicate yeah, and I I think um, I didn't really say anything about it, but when you mentioned the business aspect, like that's the part I suck at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm a really, really good, fucking dog trainer yeah, you're a really good dog trainer but like my business and administration skills man, I was a kid in high school who would just shove all his papers in his backpack I had no binder, I know I know, I was just shove my papers in my backpack and I was gonna fucking go to the next class
Speaker 2:I know I was totally that kid so I think I guarantee you I'm gonna learn shit at the program listening to you talk about oh yeah, for sure the business and administrative aspects of dog training which I didn't know were as important as it was until, like, you started putting me on game with it.
Speaker 2:Right, there was, um, another trainer I'm gonna just plug her in real quick uh, natalie, team canine dog training, or something like that. I did a session with her, I would say, a couple years ago, and she fucking same shit. She's like shane, get it together, you need to start doing this, this, this, that, that, and I was like I just trade, I like trading the dogs, and she's like I get that, but like this is the other side of the business and that was still, to this day, my weakness, right, but I feel like that's where, like the shadow program, like you're getting a crash course on that, yeah, where it's like, hey, this is like these are the mistakes I made within my business, these are the contracts that I had that weren't efficient enough or whatever. Whatever it may be, you've already gone through it. Yes, so we're able to learn that from you and I think I, I I see a lot of patrons about dog training, but I don't see a lot of sources on like, ok, well, this is the dog training business side.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we're going to plug my virtual shadow program because that's what that is, but we're also going to talk about that in the our shadow program. So Shane's going to really cover like the dog training side of things and then I'm going to cover like how we can turn that into like a sustainable business.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because my whole thing same with like keeping training simple for your owners makes it sustainable. It's the same thing when it comes to running your business. If you do not have systems in place, you will not be able to do this. You will Absolutely.
Speaker 2:You will be training, you could do it, but not for long. Right, but not for long, it's not be training.
Speaker 1:You could do it, but not for long, right, but not for long it's not sustainable. You could do it, but not for long yeah, exactly like something is going to happen if you don't have your systems in place, whether, like you don't have contracts in place or like it's really difficult to book with you. Like I paid. I paid a copyright like person, somebody to like write copy for me on a website and it was so difficult to pay her invoice and to fill out her contract and I was like, oh, I'm never working with.
Speaker 1:I can't do this like it's so dumb but it makes such a big difference and like we had a girl, I was doing like a consulting call with another dog trainer the other day and we had done like a free consulting call previously Cause she was like I think I want you to build my website and like set up my honey book, and I was like, all right, here's the things that we do. Um, I was like you can get started on this in in the meantime.
Speaker 1:You know like if you want to open up a honey book account, like, we need you to do that if we're going to work together, but there's a lot that you can like automate and all of that. So, anyways, she went and set up her honey book account and then like integrated her contact form um onto her website and she was like meg, I'm slammed, like I literally have more dogs than I need right now like I have, I'm having the opposite problem.
Speaker 1:So now I'm too busy, I can't do the back end of things and I need you to help me set up automations yep you know and like, but that's life savers, yeah, like you have to. You have to have that. Or like you're gonna spend all day training dogs and then you're gonna come home at like 9 pm and you're gonna have to sit on your computer right here on the couch all right.
Speaker 2:12 unread messages from today.
Speaker 1:Here we go, yeah, but like that's a phenomenal problem to have you know now your your funnel, or like your limiting factor and like the success of your business is like you don't have systems yeah, you know so like, every day you have to come home and respond to those emails and that's why, when you post, you're like hey guys, I'm getting back to messages I was like why is this even a?
Speaker 2:thing, why? Why are you even saying this like how, why do you not have automations in?
Speaker 1:place that like people are already like getting responses to and you're like I need help, you have to like it's genuinely everything and even in like so right now I have two businesses I have like the everyday trainer, and then me and tori have the trainers collective oh nice, nice yeah, so tori is my assistant. If you've like listened to the podcast, you probably know who tori is everybody thinks that she's like fake she's a fake person.
Speaker 2:I've heard of her but never seen her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you'll never see, you'll never see tori, but like she ran my business like she ran the everyday trainer. She was the admin person on the computer from nine to five, monday through friday. Does she work weekends?
Speaker 2:no, she will never check her phone on the weekend, you know.
Speaker 1:But she ran my business. So now we started a business together where we're helping dog trainers with the stuff that we're helping you with. So Tori also works with Shane.
Speaker 2:Shout out to Tori man. Shout out to Tori. Shout out Tori, she's like Saved the day a few times.
Speaker 1:Literally. Yeah, she's the best, but so her and I are. Basically all we do is create systems for dog trainers.
Speaker 1:Because, what I learned is that people don't want to hire people out to do that necessarily. Right, Dog trainers are a little bit controlling and don't want to like give up that side of their business yet. So I'm like that's fine. If you don't want us to do that for you, that's okay. But like there are so many automations that you can have in place to save you so much time so that you can spend more time doing what you love, which is training dogs you know, and I would say like I love.
Speaker 1:I love everything that like dog training has given me. But I've always been very business driven and so dog training was like my outlet for that you know and we were talking about that, you know, the other day, and I've definitely talked about it on the podcast before where it's like you are so passionate about dog training, like that you are who people should be learning from. Like I want to learn from somebody who is just like so passionate that it's like all that sickening.
Speaker 1:yeah, like you have a addictive personality you know, and luckily it's directed at dog training which is like a productive outlet I would say yeah you know, but like I do want to learn dog training from somebody like you because, like you, can, you know, help me, because you're doing this 24 7, you know. So, like who else out there is, gonna see the things that you see and know the things that you know you know, so I kind of feel that way about like the business side of stuff is like I'm very passionate about that and through that business of like helping dog trainers, I'm able to help more yeah, you're still helping dogs yeah it's not, it's all connected, and I think that that brings up a good point like focus on what you're good at yes and if there's things you're not good at outsource, outsource like that's it.
Speaker 2:You could try. I tried. No, no, I'm not good at everything, I can't do it all, and you outsource it. But being able to do that now it takes sweat off my back and, like you said, now I can pour it back into the dogs.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think that's super important. And then, to piggyback off of that, too, very important to be surrounding yourself by people who are also very passionate Because, like I'm around, oscar Chris Rowell, oscar chris rowell, like all these other dudes, and like they're all the same yes and so, like it just lights the fire, it lights the fire and it's a constant thing.
Speaker 1:Where we're like, who you surround yourself is so so important, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And so, like it keeps the fire lit, yeah, I'm like I don't feel like training it, and then chris posts a sick ass video healing his dog. I'm like fuck that I'm trying. I'm trying because I'm seeing him in trial one of these days and I'm going to be fucking ready and I'm going to be training.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But it's, it just helps keep that fire alive and it helps keep you on your toes.
Speaker 1:Like accountable.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, because they'll check me with shit. You know they'll check me. But I think that's so valuable too. Is that like we're around people that we trust enough when they're like, hey, checking you on some shit, like, hey, you're doing that wrong. You're like doing yes, I'm gonna take it into consideration. I may be a little stubborn about it still, but I'm gonna think about it a little bit yeah but it's super important to have yourself surrounded by those people.
Speaker 2:It like I it's hard for me to say because, like I didn't have that, like for the first, I would say three. I've only known oscar two years, right. So for like the first three years of my training I didn't have anything. Oh, really uh-huh.
Speaker 2:So I only known him two years, okay, but maybe maybe two and a half or three now okay but, I haven't known him that long so, like I would, I my mentor was fucking michael ellis, do learburg and ed frawley, if you guys know that guy, because that's who I just watched and learned from yeah right.
Speaker 2:And then once I met him, then like I was like, oh yeah, I'm taking this shit seriously, like I already had passion for it. But when seeing like this is what I could do, like look how good his dogs are. And then I see chris's, I see everybody's dogs, and it's like, yeah, I'm fucking training, all the time, I'm training. And if something, if, for whatever reason, those guys unlikely beat me in trial, it's not because I didn't train hard enough.
Speaker 1:Yes, oscar has created some very good people.
Speaker 2:I think Oscar's community is extremely underrated. He does like, not not his online community, but the, the trainers that he's put out. Yeah, I think is like that's next level. That's stuff I want to do. We're like I see, like I see chris, because chris trained with oscar for a long time.
Speaker 1:Chris is such a good dog, such a good dog trainer.
Speaker 2:But I see a little bit of oscar and chris, yes. And then I see a little bit of oscar and me and like I think, as for oscar, like if I was his in position, like that's where I feel like, yeah, like I am really making a huge impact on the dog community by producing these trainers. Chris does his workshops, chris has his online, he has a subscription on IG. Like I think that's such a feel good thing to do, to be able to be like, yeah, I am creating the community, like I am creating the next generation of shit. And then, like oscar, he's still doing it, though. Like he's still in the mix with us, right, so we're still competing against him. And still it's not like oscar's like oh, I did it 30 years ago. No, he's still doing it, right but okay, oscar is not like everybody asks like oscar is so old?
Speaker 1:he's not. He's literally an ongoing joke. It's an ongoing joke.
Speaker 2:No, I, I I'm pretty sure he's like 38 yeah, like hey for for the way he works.
Speaker 1:Dogs like seven years older than me.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you what he gets down and dirty when he's working dogs man, I don't. I don't hear many complaints for that guy at all, but yeah, like the community that he's no, he's like created some really good trainers and then like um and let me add this in, out of the kindness of his heart oh yeah I. I didn't pay to mentor with him. I didn't pay to, like, go meet up with him every weekend, like this is stuff that I bugged the shit out of him yeah like.
Speaker 2:I have ig messages where, like, I sent him and like he didn't reply Like I got those messages and shit. But like I bugged him nonstop until he was like fucking, just come on, come down, come down, right, but that's what he likes. He wants.
Speaker 1:He wants people to put in like the effort, like he recognizes that he recognizes when people are putting in the effort and then he's like all right and like really like helps build you guys. Yeah, like I don't think people know, I don't think people know how good of a trainer he is, but not just like in training his dogs, but like in the trainers that he's like trained like.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's a direct reflection everybody needs to go hype up oscar because, I'm trying to get him to do a shadow program.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, so go let him know.
Speaker 2:let him know, go, hype him up and tell him that get him to do a shadow program. Yep, yep. So go, let him know.
Speaker 1:Let him know, go, hype him up and tell him that he needs to do a shadow program.
Speaker 2:I'm about to start selling his tricks. I'm going to start selling his tricks, man, but like yeah, no, everything I've learned within, like I would say, everything within the protection stuff, everything was from Oscar and Chris, yeah, right. And like this is just because he saw that I had the fire and he's like, yeah, like I want to help you because I but I'll share the things you guys like that is not super common in the dog community.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of people who want to hold on to secrets and not tell people stuff, and I I understand it to an extent, but I don't think it's super helpful. I think if we want the community to become better, we have to put in the information and we have to help teach the people on how to make it better Right, and that that's how it keeps growing. But, like what he's done for me and done for others, like you can't, you can't repay it, right, you can't, and so like super, super grateful. But again, these are what, like these shadow programs could bring to you guys is like you stay in contact with us, right. Like, yeah, I stay in contact with us, right. Like, yeah, I stay in contact with all my shadow program. They're probably like my closest friends and I I don't have any friends. I got people I train with that become friends but like I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't hang out with people like unless we're doing some shit, like some dog stuff, right, but like they've become friends of mine and I think that's super hard to come across the connections that you you get from it, and some of them are local. Some of them could be looked at as my competition and I'm like, no, fuck it, there's enough to go around. Oh yeah, there's enough bad dogs there's no shortage.
Speaker 1:Literally everybody has a dog.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's enough to go around, but I think it's super valuable and I wish when I was first starting that, even though, you know, five years ago I wish I would have joined the shadow program right away. Yes, and I would have had some contacts with dogs I had issues with and, like some of my students still text me like, hey, shane, I got this dog, what do you think right? And I think that stuff is super, super valuable, um, and I'm very, very happy to offer it. I'm always extremely humbled when people show up to my shit. I'm like, damn, y'all care that much. Like y'all care I had. I had one girl, um, from puerto rico yeah I was like what the fuck?
Speaker 2:that's crazy you came from puerto rico to come fucking learn my shit. Like that's amazing. It was so humbling and it's like it's a huge, uh, a huge wave of imposter syndrome. But it's like, you know, like it's for a reason, like it just doesn't happen on accident. That's something I try to keep telling myself. When, like, people invite me out for workshops and shit, I'm like, are you sure? Yeah, I've only been doing it for five years, are you sure? Yeah, fucking come down. Ok, ok, you know. So it's very humbling, but again, I wish I had something like this when I was first starting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know same, but that's kind of here now. That's right how I try to like create everything you know I was like what would? I would have wanted you know whether I'm like an owner looking for a dog trainer like what would.
Speaker 2:I would have wanted, but it's because you were in that perspective, so you're able, you're able to see it and I I think that's super helpful. I think a lot of people, uh, they're not in the real world sometimes yeah and they're giving advice on shit where they're like they're not even in the in the same world that I'm in yeah, for sure jordy's look at this little stretch and there's them. Hi, mom, you're good. Okay, sorry, I was hoping to be. No, we could cut it out. You can close it, that's fine, okay.
Speaker 1:She was all over Meg. Yeah, she came and sat in my lap Just for a couple seconds.
Speaker 2:Just go with her, then Dang Shaking.
Speaker 1:Go your mama, go your mama, go your mama. You snuck up here, move Okay. So what can the people expect from doing one of our, or our our future shadow program?
Speaker 2:I would say expect, expect the unexpected. I'm playing um, expect both sides of the spectrum, right like. Like, there's going to be lecture, there's going to be hands-on stuff, but there's also going to be things that maybe aren't directly related to learning theory, but it's related to dog training.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Shane's going to cover all of the like, hands-on, like practical stuff, but talk about dog training from the place of you're a dog trainer speaking to an owner. So if I were working with a client with this dog, here's what I would say to them. And that's the cool part about doing these things with trainers is you do get to talk about it like that. It's like, hey, if I'm the dog trainer, here's how I'm looking at things, where you wouldn't necessarily be able to talk about everything that you see to the owner, right, because it might be, overwhelming.
Speaker 1:They might not see those things. It's just like unnecessary information. But, like with dog trainers, you like really get into it of. Like okay, here's this dog, here's how we work through it. Like here's how I would, here's what I would have the owner do, here's like what the go-home session would look like, all of that sort of stuff. So shane's going to cover the like dog training side of things and then I'm going to cover the business side of things, so how to turn that skill into a sustainable business for yourself. So the back end like we mentioned honey book. Honey book is our like client management software. Right, it's how we send invoices and contracts. And it's like, what were you doing before honey book, shane? Like I'm sure you were just taking venmo payments gmail and cash app yeah, like just so unorganized text messages and cash app yes like no.
Speaker 1:You have to have contracts. Like you have to have inv. Your seeing and scheduling and super important, like having all of that set up before you dive too deep is going to help prevent that burnout.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I learned that the hard way.
Speaker 2:But again too, guys, it's going to be like it's going to be, you know, thorough. Well, we're going to focus on I like focusing on the retreat aspect of it as well.
Speaker 1:Oh yes, where it's like.
Speaker 2:OK, like we're going focus on I like focusing on the retreat aspect of it as well. Oh yes, where it's like, okay, like we're gonna hang out, we're gonna shoot this shit, I'm gonna have zoo slim the dogs like we're gonna hang out, and I really want to build more of a community type deal yeah right, like there's enough to go around. Right, there's plenty to go around.
Speaker 1:I want everybody to be able to feel like they have people, you have friends, like you have a built-in community of like friends that you can, you know, talk about dog training with or business ideas or like you have that support Like I'm still in a group chat with all of my retreat.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, you know and like one of them messaged us today and she's like I'm training this dog and, like you know, we're having these issues, what would you do? And it's like like somebody always responds yeah, uh-huh, yeah, yeah, no, I think that's super cool. We did the retreat, you know, like three months ago, and it's just cool that, like everybody's staying in contact and like you have that support, especially in an industry like dog training, where sometimes it can feel so isolating, you know, because you're either just like in one-on-one lessons with a client or you're, you know, at home doing board and trains you know, and you're like hmm, like you know, just like we were talking about your client earlier, you're like how would I do this?
Speaker 2:you know, and it's like you can like ping ideas off of people for sure that makes better dog trainers uh-huh, you know, yeah, not to mention, most of us are pretty introverted yeah, right so as is kind of hard to go and make friends anyway, so like having um dog training is the special interest exactly having a shared special interest is definitely a good way to make connections, but I think it's super important that we keep building a community and hopefully you know like we're able to show you guys things and five years later you're able to do your own thing and you're able to show other people thing and we just fucking start drowning the world in good dog training yes, supportive dog training, that's it like that.
Speaker 2:That's it like if that's what we need more of and that's how we're going to fix a lot of the issues that we have within the dog community of um, you know bad blood or you know fucking bad shit happening to dogs and to people all the time? Yeah, but if we're not putting that information out there, then fucking how are people supposed to know?
Speaker 1:yeah right.
Speaker 2:So if we just drown if I drown your guys's ears, you drown someone else's ears and we just keep it fucking going along, then I think, uh, the dog community will be all right, and I, I'm I feel like I'm starting to see that, like I'm starting to see a lot of really good dog trainers, yes, even some fairly young, right, like I see some that are like 17 years old, and I'm like God, they're killing it. I'm like you're going to be better than me, yeah, when you're my age, you're going to be better than fucking me, for sure, oh yeah. But like you ain't going to be better than me currently, though You'll be better than I was when I was that age, but you ain't going to be better than I am now, right, and so, like it helps light that fire in me where I'm like, yeah, let's keep going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, keep training Keep training.
Speaker 2:I got to keep working, I keep doing all that stuff, but there's a I like. I like what I see in the future of dog stuff. And again, I've only been doing it for five years, so I can only imagine someone who's been doing 10, 15 years where they they see a huge difference. I imagine a huge difference in the way that the dog training is going yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's changed so much just over the past like five years, I would say it's crazy.
Speaker 2:It's crazy. So we're we're super fortunate and I hope to be able to provide you guys with some, some more tools to add to your toolbox to hopefully help out some more clients, help out some more dogs, uh, but it'll be very immersive, all right, but at the same time, meg will make sure it's you have fun and relaxing and y'all not falling asleep on me because I could blabber on about dog stuff, dude you saw my workshop, like I could go on sections uh-huh yeah well, like we could even do rotations right, like, yeah, a couple hours with me and then you go over to meg and then a couple hours with her.
Speaker 2:You know like kind of we're gonna make bracelets, uh-huh yeah I feel like you're like the, the mr miyagi, where you're like we're gonna paint the fence and it's gonna help us us train dogs. Yeah, literally, that's literally how I do it. It's going to help us train dogs.
Speaker 1:So I think, that's super important.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, I hope you guys get get something good out of it. I'm very excited to do it. Like I said, it's by far my favorite thing to do yeah Is to train trainers. I love training dogs I absolutely love it but I really enjoy training trainers Right and so I hope to be able to give you guys a little something to add to your toolbox so you could then help out others, help out your business, and then, you know, keep passing it along.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we don't have a set date yet. Our limiting factor on this is the stay. So we want it to be like, very similar to my retreat, where you know we're staying at all at one place.
Speaker 1:I think that's a huge part of it is like hanging out with everybody at the end of the day and like having dinner together and like I do think that there's like so much value in that Um. So we don't have a set date yet, but I'm going to put this out there as feel feelers, if you have a place that we can host, we're looking for something in the la area with can host about, I would say, 12 people, um, anywhere from like six to ten bedrooms probably is what we're looking at that allows dogs. That's been like the toughest part. I would say. We found Um, but as soon as we get that booked, we'll have a set date for everything and we'll be able to release that.
Speaker 1:But what I'm going to do, I'm actually going to put a link in the show notes for a signup. So if you are interested in doing our next retreat, go ahead and um submit your email and your contact information in that link that's in the show notes and we'll send you um. You'll be the first to know of dates and sign up and how much everything costs and all the details about it. So if this sounds like something that you're interested in, you're a new dog trainer or you're getting really into dog training and you want to learn, you know more advanced stuff, you want to see what we're doing. You want help with the business side of things? Leave your contact information and we'll let you know as soon as we've got all of that set in stone yeah, I'm thinking for sure like beginning of next year, whether it's like january, february, march, but somewhere yeah, it just depends on when we can book yeah, the things that'll be the biggest thing yeah, it's, it's tough dog dog stuff, dog stuff.
Speaker 2:I had a horror, horror.
Speaker 1:Story from my last airbnb, from my shadow program. I told you, oh, yeah, yeah like they agreed to it at first and then afterwards like they lied about the number of bedrooms and so then like tori went and left a review and she like didn't even give them a bad review she was just like, hey, like.
Speaker 1:This is not the correct number of bedrooms, um, and then they went and like they're like, you owe us 2,500 because you had this many dogs in, and we said no dogs and I was like, actually I have proof that you did say that's why I was like what if you get the?
Speaker 2:airbnb. Get over here, dude.
Speaker 1:Come on, come on, you bad boy that's why I was like if you get an airbnb, you need to make sure that in writing it says that they're okay with the dogs. So it's just you know yeah, no super important, but very fucking uh difficult sometimes yeah, we'll let you all know about that.
Speaker 2:Um, keep up to date with shane in his online training community shane w murray, for my ig, for my tiktok too, and, uh, for my website, for my community fucking everything, um. But yeah, I got a lot of good stuff on there. Guys, I understand. I'm completely aware that, uh, my pricing has definitely increased over the years, so I do have other, more affordable ways of learning together, right, and that's something that my online community I mean it's 30 bucks a month. You could literally fucking buy it one time.
Speaker 2:I don't care if you screen record every fucking video and then up subscribe, like it's not a huge deal for me. It's more important to me that you get some good dog training advice and you're not fucking your dog up or making shit harder for you and your dog yeah Right, your dog up, or making shit harder for you and your dog, yeah, right. So, like, there's a lot of stuff on there, um, and I plan to be doing some virtual shadow programs, right, when I learn a little bit more from you when I help shane, when I help his virtual shadow program is when that will happen, when meg decides?
Speaker 2:that's when we'll do our virtual shadow program, but for right now, check out the community. Guys, there's a lot of stuff out there reactive dog training uh, fearful dogs. Advanced obedience, my sport dog stuff.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to give you the best of both worlds yeah, shane's got a lot of stuff in his community so I'll put that in the show notes as well. And uh, for me, we are doing our next virtual shadow program the second week of January, so I believe it's it's January 7th. We're starting on a Monday. So if you are looking to get into dog training you're a new dog trainer, want help with the dog training stuff, the business side of stuff Same sort of thing that we're going to do in our like shadow programs, slash retreat. We can do all online.
Speaker 1:So I have a three-week program that's starting second week of january. We are doing open interviews for that right now, so you guys can always visit my website and check all of that out and sign up for a call with me to make sure that it's a good fit. So I think, um, we've plugged all of our things. Yep, we're a little infomercial there at the end. I don't like the way it makes me feel Part of the business. Guys, we got to do that cringy shit sometimes, man.
Speaker 1:Shane is growing. Shane is growing as a business owner.
Speaker 2:So you can too, and you can too.
Speaker 1:Call 1-800 visit the trainers collective yeah, that is funny um, but yeah, you got anything else to add?
Speaker 2:no, that's good. Uh, just keep on keeping on, y'all keep on keeping, on, keep training life's a garden, dig it life's a garden, dig it.
Speaker 1:I love you. We will see you next time.
Speaker 2:Peace.