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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
Crafting Trust and Communication with Your Dog: A Dog Trainer Convo
Hey ya'll welcome back. This week I wanted to give you a little behind-the-scenes look into our Virtual Shadow Program and a conversation amongst dog trainers. This podcast is a recording from our VSP and dives into using tools with hesitant owners, navigating tough conversations as dog trainers, and how we can show up as confident leaders for the dogs and owners we work with.
This podcast episode presents an insightful conversation on dog training, emphasizing the nuances of using corrective devices and understanding dog behavior. Trainers share firsthand experiences navigating challenging situations and managing the balance between corrective measures and building trust.
• Exploring the use of corrective devices in dog training
• Understanding the impact of owner emotions on training outcomes
• Discussing real experiences with dogs exhibiting bite histories
• The importance of building strong relationships with dogs
• Overcoming imposter syndrome and navigating trainer identity
• Insights on the balance of management and behavioral modification
• Preparing for the next steps in dog training and behavior management.
If you're a new dog trainer or are looking to break into the industry and want to join our next VSP, click the link HERE.
Hey y'all, welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. Today's episode is a little clip from our virtual shadow program. So, if you don't know, I host an online shadow program for dog trainers and people wanting to become dog trainers, so I clipped a conversation call that we had amongst the group. This is from our virtual shadow program back in October. It's pretty much just a behind the scenes conversation amongst trainers. So we talk about some very real topics, like you know, working with difficult dogs with bite histories, and how we navigate, you know, tools with our owners. So we really go in depth. I think you guys are really going to like this episode. Our next virtual shadow program is starting on January 6th, so if you like the conversation that you have, that we have, and you want to be part of it, you can join our January 6th virtual shadow program.
Speaker 1:I'll include the link in the show notes. You know the drill Grab yourself a tasty drink. I've got a matcha here with me, so grab your drink. Meet you back here, enjoy, um. So today we're just going over training questions, clarifying anything that you guys have watched in the videos. From this point forward, we're going to move forward with business stuff, so I want to make sure everybody feels good about their training and kind of. You know how I approach certain things. So, frank, start us off.
Speaker 4:So I have a question. Yeah, it came across me the other day, so somebody asked me a question and I couldn't formulate an answer to help them. So I had a client ask me what are the precursors that make you want to put corrective devices on a dog? And I was like, well, bad behaviors that we're looking to extinguish most of the time, right, like there's certain behaviors we're looking to extinguish and she goes no, I understand that, but like, are there criterias in your head that would say like no, I'm not putting this on a dog? I'm like yeah, no, there's definitely certain ones.
Speaker 4:Like if a dog is already super submissive and very off-put and definitely has a bad taste in their mouth to things that we could consider as compulsive or adversive, right, typically I'm not going to throw a prong collar on a dog like that. I would do something with a slip lead, or maybe even a slip lead would be too much and we would be working with like a martin gal. But it really ended up, the whole question ended up getting to e-collars and my question to you is because I kind of know my thing.
Speaker 1:But my question to you is where do you draw the line where you look at a dog and you're like I'm not putting an e-collar on that dog yeah, I don't e-collar every dog like i'm'm not one of those trainers, but I'm not so much deciding on that based on the dog, I'm more so deciding on that based on the owner, what I think that they're capable of. So for example, I had I I'll say I rarely get dogs that are like so shut down that I wouldn't put like a tool on them. But for me I'm mostly using slip leads. You know I personally do not prong collar dogs a lot, not because I don't like prongs, but people just don't use them. Like I was spending so much money a month on prong collars and I would include them in my training and then I would get the dog back for boarding and I'm like where's your prong collar? And they're like, oh, we don't use it anymore. I'm like, okay, well, give it back to me. That shit's like 50 bucks, you know. Um, so it sounds like dumb, but like people were not keeping up with prong. So I'm like, all right, we're just going to use slip leads because everybody likes the slip leads.
Speaker 1:I'm kind of in the same boat with e-callers. If somebody comes to me and they're like I really want my dog like off leash training, I'm like, all right, e-caller. I'm never going to have a dog off leash without an e-caller. Um, I'll say I got one dog that was so shut down with like anything, um, that I was like I'm not gonna put an e-collar on, like what is the point of putting an e-collar on this dog? You know, but a majority of the dogs that I get I feel like are pushy and have behavioral issues because they've never been told no before, you know.
Speaker 1:So if I had an owner who comes to me and is like, would you like not put a dog or would you not put like an e-collar on my dog because they're like fear reactive right, that's like a, a term that people love to throw around, and I'm like you don't really know if your dog is fear reactive, it's like no, I think there's value in e-collaring a dog like that because, like, you're telling them that they don't have to like be this way, you know, and a lot of times they just are operating out of this like knee-jerk reaction of being reactive, even if it is fear reactivity.
Speaker 1:So when you like, disrupt that with a tool like an e-caller, like the dog is still able to progress and become better. But I'm mostly determining is this owner willing to use the e-caller and are they going to drop their own emotions around the tool? Because if I have somebody who's like, oh, I don't like and I'm like we're not going to use it, use it right, because they're just making the dog hate the thing because of their feelings about the thing you know. So like if that owner was like, well, I don't want aversives, or like they still have that mindset of like, oh, it's an aversive, I don't want to like, do this on an insecure dog, then it's like I'm not going to e-coll that dog, not because of the dog, but because of your emotions and how you're reacting to the tool and what that will do to the dog. You know.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so where this kind of came from too. Just to give you the other side of it. So everybody can kind of understand the case. It's a pit bull, that is. He was drugged for a very long time to stay calm in the house. So about three years of just a cocktail of gabapentin, ace trasnol every single day. Okay, how does? Now I would classify him as having brain damage from it, like he's not normal by any means. And they were like why what? We don't think we should use the e-collar.
Speaker 4:My, my point was is this dog lacks clarity so much that the quicker we can get him to just stopping whatever's going on up here, like whatever is just forcing him, like he'll stare at the corner of the wall and get scared and just start shaking. Like just just very odd behaviors, and on top of it he's aggressive, like he will indiscriminately. I walked through the door and got bit three times as soon as I walked into the house. So for me, with a dog like that needs to be very clear, because he just sees red because it's not processing. So that was my point of view is like yes, this is technically a fear reactive dog, so it's funny that you brought that up, but at the end of the day, my criteria for this is that this dog just needs clarity of the day. My criteria for this is that this dog just needs clarity.
Speaker 1:So that's where it came in, but that happened two days ago so I was like I should ask at the yeah, and also, like you probably have the experience of, like you know what happens when you do add clarity and like consequences and like this is what I want you to do and this is what I don't want you to do Like the anxiety just like melts away from those dogs.
Speaker 1:You know, and I had a Dalmatian that was kind of he wasn't like aggressive at all, but like he was so neurotic and like anxious if you would like walk out of the room, and I I had to like correct him and he was not sensitive at all.
Speaker 1:He was the kind of dog who would drag me down the street and I'm like I'm a tall person, I'm tough to drag, and this dog was dragging me with a prong collar with everything, and so I would have to do pretty high levels on the e-collar. So when I did the go-home session with the owner, I was like, look, if this dog starts whining in the crate at all, like you have to correct at a high level because it doesn't mean anything to him. Until it's at a high level and you nip it in the bud, the dog goes oh, she's going to hold me accountable. He lays down, he relaxes, but her whole thing was well, that's not really like changing his state of mind about like I don't know. I feel like on the internet everybody's like you have to address, like what is it? I don't know what people say, but you're not, oh, you're not changing the dog's like feelings about it by like correcting them, but I think you are I agree with with you, 100%.
Speaker 4:I agree with you.
Speaker 1:I don't think dogs have the same thinking processes that we do. So when we snap them out of those behaviors, they're like oh, you know. Like they're not like holding a grudge because they've been corrected. It's like oh, I don't have to be this way anymore, I can just relax. And it really like makes a huge difference with them.
Speaker 1:But I feel like owners are thinking of it from, like the way that they think so part of it is like explaining to them that dogs don't really think the same way that we do, and whatever they're thinking is kind of like out on display, you know. So when they do calm down from a correction or what you know clarity like that's genuinely how they feel on the inside too yeah, I.
Speaker 4:The one thing I normally tell people, my one-liner is I say that dogs are, are not very internal creatures. There's no way if a dog's uncomfortable, you can tell because they're genetically hardwired to give us the body language to say hey, I'm uncomfortable. If we correct a dog and they take a deep breath, sigh and lay down and close their eyes, they're not stressed, like if they were not be napping, like that's not how that works. So I I'm like okay, we're on the same page. I just I'm at that point in my career where it's like I don't have anybody to like kick things back off that and like are the I mean clients ask this stuff all the time?
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, for sure, but I'm more so. I really structure my training around my owners and, talking with the owner, what are they willing to keep up with? That determines the route of training that I take. You know, and I'm I'm very much like, if somebody doesn't want to use any tools on their dog, like, I will train without tools, like I'm not the type of person who, like, will send people away. If you don't want e-caller, you know, because usually when, like, let's say, somebody is like I just really don't feel comfortable, I'm like that's fine, I will never make you do something that you don't feel a hundred percent comfortable with. And 99% of the time when they get to know me and they learn about my training and I explain things to them and you know we do everything through management and shaping with food they're like okay, I get it, I'll use the e-caller.
Speaker 1:Now you know it just takes them a little bit of time. But I never do any sort of like convincing with anybody. I'm like, if you don't want to use e-caller, like that makes it easier for me, you know. Like we just won't use the e-caller, that's okay. But through like the training, it usually educates them enough to where they're like okay, I get it, I can use this tool comfortably now you know.
Speaker 6:Well, mine's not a question, Mine's more of like a what do you do? So I would say, majority of my clients, they're like, too happy, like they, just like, they're like well, like, they just like, they're like well, when, when can I get an e-collar? When can I? When can I start using a prom or like, when can I? And I'm like, your dog doesn't even know how to walk on a leash, let alone feel a stimulation wirelessly.
Speaker 6:So and I have a client right now where, like, or I had a client, she, her dog, was on a prong on an e collar and a flat collar pretty much every walk, but the collar was only being used for correction. So when I came into the mix, I'm telling her that we need to kind of like, go backwards and kind of show him what we're using these things for. But she was very like, not, not for it. She was very like, not for it. She was very much like, well, like he knows how to walk on a leash, but it's clear Puppy doesn't. But, yeah, like Puppy wouldn't be doing the things and it was a very so I think I talked to you about this. It was like a year and a half old Doberman, yes, very anxious. He did not want to go on his walks. He would like stop mid-walk to like say, hey, I'm stuck here, we're not moving.
Speaker 4:How Doberman would not?
Speaker 6:be here. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But owner was very stuck in her ways and I don't want to say stuck in her ways, but she was told, like do this. And now, when she was like trying to be introduced to something else, it's kind of like but no, he's already knows that when I'm trying to show you, he doesn't. He actually doesn't know that. So we want to go back and show him that, like, when you put pressure on our leash, you don't have to drag me, it's okay, you can. I'm just getting out of the car. But yeah, when you, when you do feel a stim, it's more so like hey, come this way, not don't go that way. Right, like that was me trying to explain. Like hey, like I, instead of it being a correctional tool, it's a directional tool, but because of the she almost had like a layer to her, her leash process, where, like the leash would be a leash, the prong is like the directional but, and then the e-collar became the correctional tool.
Speaker 1:I'm like dude has like five collars on and you still don't even know how to talk to him so what I would do for people who are like I know, know what I'm doing, right, like that's kind of what's going on, is like you're not going to convince her that she's not. But why don't you pretend to be the dog and I do this shit all the time? I'd be like all right, I'm going to put the hold, the e-collar, in my hand, I'm going to hold the leash. You show me how you use the e-collar, because you're going to find out that like she's probably tapping that shit like all over the place and you're going to be like this is wrong, you know. But like be like okay, if you're super confident in like your e-collar and then swap roles. So then she holds the leash, she holds the e-collar. This is how we're going to do it. Do you understand that clarity that when you move to me, the e-collar stim goes off, the leash pressure goes off, then she'll kind of get it and then show her what she's doing with the dog. You know, so kind of role play.
Speaker 1:You hold the e-collar and I do this with um place all the time, like in my go-home sessions, before I have the owner use the e-caller with place or anything like that. I hold it in my hand and I have the leash and I say okay, tell me to go to place. And it's like place. And then I get to place and e-caller stim goes on and I'm like what was that? You just ruined my training. If we put the dog, if we put this on the dog, you just ruined my training. Try again. And you make them go through it again and again, and again, because every good, everybody's gonna be like I get what you're saying.
Speaker 6:I get what you're saying yes, that's literally how I feel they nod. They're like yeah, I get it. I'm like, okay, do it. And they don't do it yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So have them mess up on you and then it kind of like humbles them a little bit, you know yes, without you being rude also yeah, yeah, that's always.
Speaker 1:What I do is all role play, so I'll do it first to feel what they're what they're doing and then I switch so that I show them this is what you're doing. Imagine how confusing this is. You know you're correcting for everything and that's the problem. Like I don't want to say what she's doing is necessarily wrong. It's just not the best, right, like you can put an e-collar on and just correct the dog. But if you're going to do that, like the Ivan whatever his name is Balabanov I can never say it.
Speaker 1:He's really big on that, right, he's really big on I don't condition the e-caller. He's a great trainer but he's using the e-caller for corrections for one thing at a time. You know so like she can do that. But she needs to pick one thing at a time. You know so like she can do that. But she needs to pick one thing at a time that she's gonna work on so that it's clear to the dog don't do this. But what I guarantee she's doing is she's just, yeah, e-call her happy, hitting it all the time, and it's like, okay, you can't have both. You know you either need to condition or you need to be very clear on what you're correcting with. And that is also like, for example, I do not really do a lot of e-collar conditioning with my dogs like I do, more so what ivan does, but I know what I'm doing and I'm not going to mess my dogs up if I taught owners to do that it would be a nightmare it would be a nightmare.
Speaker 1:They would mess their dogs up, they would be correcting for things they shouldn't be correcting for, they would be correcting for everything. And then we'd have dogs who are like I don't know what I need to do, right? So that's why, with owners, I do conditioning, because it's much less likely that they're going to mess the dog up with imperfect timing if we do the conditioning beforehand do you think on board in trains there are certain dogs that you would train like your dogs?
Speaker 4:yes, okay, all right, I want to make it because as soon as that was said, I was like, oh, I know, but there's like certain dogs that come in and I'm like I know I can just push your buttons and we can get four days ahead of training. If we just have this one really tough conversation right now, and I'm 98 percent sure we'll get through to the other side, so let's go for it. But I mean, like I'm not going to take a mini F3AB golden doodle you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Like there's a very specific dog that that would work for. Yes, so I had a client with a very sporty lab and I didn't really do conditioning like I normally would, because I tried it and it became a gas pedal, which is nice if you're doing sports with the dog right and you do want your e-collar to be a gas pedal, which is nice if you're doing sports with the dog right and you do want your e-collar to be a gas pedal. But I'm like, oh, this is not what we want. The dog was like launching himself off of people. So I was like, all right, I'm just going to like make that really hot. So the dog like jumps up on me, palm high level e-collar correction did not do that anymore. We didn't really use the e -collar for anything but that.
Speaker 1:I also like, let's say you're doing a board and train by the time the dog goes home, the owner should not be doing conditioning, they should not be in escape or avoidance, or well, no, sorry, they should not be in escape, they should be in avoidance, or well, no, sorry, they should not be an escape, they should be in avoidance. Right, the e-caller goes on on the back end if the dog doesn't do the thing or to correct behaviors. I don't think you should send a dog home. That is still in that first stage where you're pressing and holding the dog does the thing, it goes off. Do you guys have any other questions or things that you want to go over?
Speaker 3:um I have a quick question. So my girlfriend's dogs are like the. They're the two little four and a half pound yorkies and like I already started to like have her go over like some marker words with them and stuff and uh, she was basically just like obviously like easier to just focus on one at a time, especially because the other one is absolutely food crazy and will like jump on top of it's her mom and daughter, and she would jump on top of her mom um to like get even if I'm just handing her like a piece of water thing. So it's just I'm like she has a little pen area or like something she can use to like divide the house and like just stick koa back there for now while like she trains with mom, I assume.
Speaker 1:But like any other advice, I guess we're just like kind of a two-dog household in general yeah, um, I saw that you were doing like individual crates for them right, or like one crate with a divider yeah, one with a divider and like they have always shared space, so I thought that that was like an okay starting point for them.
Speaker 1:But yeah, no, I think that's really good. I think that's like a good start, I would say, to tell the owner to make sure that she does individual time with each dog, whether that's going for a walk, um, whether it's doing a training session in the house, and also making sure that the other dog is watching but not participating. That's a huge thing, and every single dog that I get in for training gets fomo and they lose their ever loving mind when I take them, when I take, like another dog out, and they are not coming with me because and these might just be my clients but they their entire lives revolve around their dogs, and so the dogs when they come to me, it's like a classroom setting, right. Like the whole world does not revolve around you. This is a group thing.
Speaker 1:Like we all get our individual time and these dogs are like the bratty, spoiled kids who are like no, it's all about me, right? So like there's so much value in being like, no, it's all about me, right. So like there's so much value in being like, hey, the world actually doesn't revolve around you and you don't have to be a thousand percent involved in everything that we do all the time. So, making time every single day to do individual stuff with the dogs, and I even will like I'll be bad about it sometimes with my own dogs, because they all belong really well. So I just let everybody out at once and then, like recently, I took like Millie for a walk separately and like Lucy's like screaming at me, right Cause she's like how dare you take?
Speaker 1:her and not me. So it's like, okay, they're showing me that I need to do more individual time with each of them, because they're losing it when I just take one of them away. You know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and like if they're losing their shit while that's happening, like especially if one is in a place where they can see the other like just ignore that behavior, I presume.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would ignore, but you can also like. One of my favorite things to do is like feed one dog from like a bowl, or even just like throw it on the floor or in the crate, feed them while you're doing something with the other dog and get into the habit of that so that it's like meal time for you, training session for you, and then you switch, you know okay.
Speaker 2:Or I was gonna say, when I struggle with my three aussies, it's exactly what happens because they all want to be together at that same time. And I just start doing that with one of my puppies. He's 10 months old. He gets to treat while the other ones are getting fed or something to divert that, that barking, that anxiety to come out of the crate and or be with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, perfect. And then like, if you're doing like um, I don't know, the like, freeze things, like topples or like whatever bones or choose or whatever treats like they are normally giving the dogs, like that's kind of the time to do it, because then they become conditioned of like, oh, it's a good thing when you take out the other dog, because then it's treat time for me. You know, yeah, yeah, know, yeah yeah, makes sense.
Speaker 3:Um, also, on the same note, like my neighbor who I've begun to just like kind of help out, to just like test my knowledge to super submissive pit bull maybe a little bit of boxer in there, like just such a good, sweet, like shy guy, but once he gets around her parents dog, which she takes him to hang out there like a couple days a week while she's at work, who's like a young pit bull. Um, a lot of his like typical good behavior goes out the window. So as she's like starting to practice some of this stuff with him, I don't really know if she feels like she can fully trust her parents to like be as on top of it as she is, just as far as even using the marker words consistently. So just like curious what kind of advice you give a client in that situation? What?
Speaker 1:does the dog act like at her parents house? Is it like bad behavior? Is he just excited?
Speaker 3:I think it's like maybe a little of both, like he's definitely just simply like worse on leash and just like pulls a lot more. I think like just a bit more excited, like definitely more jumpy stuff, like that okay.
Speaker 1:So I would almost just say don't do the things that you're having. That then that is it the dog, daughter, or something no, so this is.
Speaker 3:This is my neighbor's dog, so she just brings them and it's her parents have another dog in their house, so when they're together, okay.
Speaker 1:So your neighbor, I would say for her, like, don't even have the parents do anything that looks like what she does with the dog, because unless she's got like great parents who are so willing to like learn and change their ways which like that never happens, but like I don't know it might I would say like don't even walk the dog and just like try to isolate those behaviors at that house and not mix behaviors too much.
Speaker 1:Like don't be like hey, practice threshold manners, because they're not going to do it correctly and then they're ruining the training. So I would almost just be like this is just a free-for-all, don't even bother. Right, because dogs are very environmental too. So I would almost rather that house be kind of like the free-for-all house if her parents aren't willing to keep up with anything than having, like her being worried about like taking him for a structured walk or making sure he doesn't like rush through the door because in their attempt to try to recreate what she's doing, I think that like it will just become too messy and like too blurred for the dog. You know, maybe that's just like cynical advice, but I've just, I've just found that it's one of those like not worth the battle. You know.
Speaker 1:So it's like with the owner hey, do all your things. And then, as long as she's there, the dog should do the things right. The dog should listen to her, the dog should walk at heel, the dog should pause at thresholds. But unless the, the parents, are really willing to like do what she's doing and care about it, I wouldn't necessarily like put that on them okay, so it's like vacation otherwise for goose it's like going to your grandparents house eating cupcakes all day, that sort of stuff to your grandparents house eating cupcakes all day, that sort of stuff, yeah, um, I do have a question.
Speaker 6:I've been asked when or I guess how does one know when to stop using food and training I don't think you should ever stop using food and training and I I also agree with that. Um, I just think there's a time and place for it. So, uh like with my personal puppy, I only really use food now when she's learning something yes and that's pretty much what I explained.
Speaker 6:Like, if you get to a point where you kind of have markers and puppy knows like some sort of foundation, the toy just kind of becomes a higher value reward and again foundation your hierarchy of your, of your rewards. And if puppy has any sort of thought process towards that, then you will be able to kind of utilize the low value stuff for the low value learning. And then once you're actually asking puppies to do intricate, difficult things and obviously the reward is higher, which could be the ball or a higher piece of food. But I I I suggested that you don't really ever stop, because if puppy knows that kibble is kibble and chicken is chicken, then yeah, I can use chicken for higher value things and kibble when I just want you to do like a simple task.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I pretty much only use food when I'm teaching things. So as a trainer, let's say I have a board and train or I'm doing a daily train where, like, the owners are a little more hands-off, so it's just me. So I'm going to lure and use marker words and all that stuff, shape the behaviors I want. Once the dog understands what I want, then I'm going to like fade out the food a little bit, so I'm going to not use it as much. You know, just kind of pay randomly. So, for example, let's talk about heel.
Speaker 1:By the time the dog goes home, I'm not having the owners use food with heel. I teach the dog allure into heel, I teach the dog to go into heel. And then the whole time that I have the dog for training, I'm doing like intermittent rewards where we're walking, walking, walking, dog and leash. It's way too much right. So, on things that are just kind of like daily stuff, like walks or threshold manners or, you know, like basic things that the dog has an understanding of, we're not going to use food For active training sessions. So like the sessions that I did in our last live, where I'm just like, yes, good place here, you know, like running through our commands. That's their time to get the dog working for their food, to do something fun, to practice their skills, to practice, you know, all of the things We'll use food in those.
Speaker 1:But by the time, like you're done, training the dog, dog, I don't think the owner should be using food except for new things or those active sessions you know. And I I do think there is value in teaching them how you teach the things with food. And it sounds to me like we have very different clients. Um, but my clients, like they are too food happy and everything is food. Everything is like, oh, I would just rather reward with food. And then they're like rewarding a super excited dog and a jumpy dog and they're like messing up our marker words and like we're not going to do that right. So I try to keep the food rewards limited and if the dog knows the thing, we're going to hold the dog accountable to the thing with our prong or our slip or our e-collar that's actually.
Speaker 4:I just had that conversation with somebody the other day, um, and they pointed out about because I use my dogs for demos sometimes. Yeah, get them from the car to the house. I focus heel, just because if there's a dog running, somebody just makes things easier to do that. My aliens kicking in. I apologize, um.
Speaker 4:So she asked me and she, when I got there, I pulled the toy out of my pocket, threw it on the ground and we had like a split second party. I took it away, put in my pocket, it was done and over with. And she asked me and she was like I've watched other videos and people have either food up in the air or the ball under the arm. And she was like when do you stop that? And I was like that's a great question. I stop it when I feel as though the dog is ready to understand that the correction for what I'm telling you you're not doing and this is a different kind of world, but it's the same principle that when the correction is clear and I can use an e-collar stim and they pick their head back up and they don't lose drive, they don't lose power if they can kick back up into that, start stepping forward and stepping more powerfully, even with the ball under the arm, the ball goes away because the ball under the arm. The ball goes away because the ball, at that point no longer that reward does not hold the same power it used to Right. So now my relationship has to hold the power that the ball had and that when I mark something as that's not correct, they can go through the Rolodex of the spinnies in their head and say, okay, section 2.3, head up, I'm going to walk stronger, and then everything else goes away and then the ball comes out and then we can play.
Speaker 4:But what I told her was it's not the ball, right, it's not the tug, it's not the food. It doesn't matter if you're using roasted chicken or French cured ham, it doesn't matter right. What matters is the interaction. And if that interaction is not clear and this is what I'm seeing a lot of I've had a couple clients in the past two weeks come to me with working dogs that they're teaching themselves offline and the issue is is that there's the relationships not clear, so you get weird behaviors and standoffishness, and that stuff can happen with food. It's happened to me with food. Like, just because you're using something positive doesn't mean especially in some of these weird mixes that people are getting in their houses like you get some weird genetics that pop out and you'll get some combative behavior.
Speaker 1:So just like what was that you know me luring mink in our like it's food. She loves food, but I hold it over her head and she's like fuck you. You know, like it's not a reward in that sense. Like you can get, do you get a lot of sporty clients?
Speaker 4:I have been, and the reason why I have been is because of my stuff I've been doing with Wes and I've been putting a little bit more of that online. Been is because of my stuff I've been doing with Wes and I've been putting a little bit more of that online. Um, it's the wrong like most of them end up to be therapy sessions of me. Being like this is not going to end well, you can't. It's like locked in a room right now because nobody can go near it. Like this is not the we have to start working.
Speaker 4:Um, but most of that stuff like I can't even charge for it, cause it's like a five minute session. And it's like I can't like just come out to the field. When I'm out in the field and I'll show you a couple of things, because it's these dogs are so powerful and I don't know who's backyard breeding these dogs, but there's some of them I'm like I'll buy that dog right now from you, like that is a fantastic dog. So it's there's a lot of this miscommunication of what is the reward and to me personally, when somebody asked me that I have to have the conversation of it's your relationship first, like it hasn't.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that you said this. Do you find that you would almost like when you get sporty people like that, do you find that you make them go backwards and focus on more? I reteach everything.
Speaker 6:I reteach everything.
Speaker 4:Yeah, everything gets retried, yeah, yeah, because what happens a lot and I learned this when I got my male dog and I never believed it until I owned him and I got him at eight months old and he was a thug at eight months, like he was 80 pounds and he would have no problem biting you if he had any reason whatsoever or if he viewed something as unfair. So a lot of that time was just teaching him what fair is. And it's tough because there's certain dogs that need to understand where the thresholds are for what, where our relationship is. But he's a dog that I'm not dad like, not dad whatsoever. We're brothers and that's the relationship we have because he's so serious.
Speaker 4:But it was a year and a half of just relationship building with that dog. Like I didn't train a damn thing with him until I knew that I could say out and his tail would wag and he'd be happy I could pick up the tug, throw it in my pocket and we could just go and play. Because it was like as soon as I reached to go and tug with him, full body, frozen teeth, hackles, all the way up the back, ready to let go, and there were a couple of times he did he'll let go and just nail you and he me and it's not a redirection, like it's just who he is. But when we're talking about sport dogs, that is more normal than people want to think. And they see these snippets from the WUSV and from the PSA nationals and all this stuff and they think that these dogs just live in the house. And it's tough to tell these people like a majority of these dogs live such a structured life. It makes the Navys life look like easy peasy.
Speaker 1:They are in a box and unless being recorded in a training session, yeah, like it's.
Speaker 4:It's a tough existence. So for me, when I saw that and then I got a dog like that, I didn't want that. So what did I do? I don't care about the titles, like the dog's three, he has his BH, he should. He should theoretically be all. We're working towards his three, but the relationship wasn't there and it took a year and people don't get that. So sometimes it's really tough and I'm like hey, I'm not going to take your money for training until I see that you're serious about wanting to work with this dog, because until you really want to go forward, I can't push this right. Like an e-collar button will not fix this, a prong collar will not make this easier.
Speaker 6:Also, in your defense, you got puppy when he was eight months. I'm sure if you had puppy like eight weeks it would. You would be able to actually build that relationship from the core eight months. He's pretty much an adult dog, like you know, but like he's yeah, he knows a grown man like it was like fighting a grown man.
Speaker 4:It was, there was a couple times it was scary but like he knows what he can and can't get away exactly, and it made me approach training in a different way than I've never had before. So like I'm a big proponent of that aspect of we are doing this for the relationship, and when someone asks me that question in particular and they're like when do you remove the ball, it's because it's for the relationship. So like same page with you on that, Meg. I completely agree with that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm going to call Toma out. But when he when he got to florida, when he got to florida he was like painting his dog to be this like monster, okay, and it was because his dog would like redirect on him in frustration. But then I saw how he was training and it was very, very sporty. He was going through the motions, he was doing the things, but he didn't have the relationship with the dog and I was like y'all are just getting frustrated at each other. Yeah, yeah, he's confused, and then you get frustrated and then he gets frustrated and it's just like it was. You know, he got like really far with him, like he has good obedience, but the relationship wasn't there.
Speaker 1:So I had him go back. I was like this is a behavioral mod, this is no longer a sport dog. You need to establish a relationship. You need to have clear consequences for the social behaviors that he's doing, like you know, when he's going to redirect on you like. You need to be firm in like correcting that Like I don't care, we're not working on drive right now. You know. You need to be clear on like. Do not bite me on like. Do not bite me. Yeah, do not bite me with like the, the dumb pet shit, and then also get clear on, like the timing of your e-caller, the timing of your marker words.
Speaker 1:So I had him go back and basically treat hawk like behavioral mod of, like you do not pull me on leash, you do not get up from a down on place, and he would run through the same drills that I have all my pet clients do, and now their relationship is so much better so that they can build a better foundation for the sport work, you know.
Speaker 1:But I find that like and I don't get very many of these people because I'm not a sporty trainer but I find that like, when I do get people who are interested in sporty, it's like no, we have to go back, like we're doing behavioral mod first and getting the basics of your timing, your marker words, your e-caller, your clarity, and then we can build sporty stuff from that foundation. Because, like, people like the fancy stuff and they're going through the motions and they're doing the things, but they don't know why they're doing the things and their dog doesn't know why they're doing the things, and so it's just very confusing. So now, like hawk obviously doesn't have the same like power that he had before. But he's working on like building that up from a clear foundation, you know.
Speaker 4:From my point of view, with a weird off breed it's you can do it Like, yeah, because when I started with Charlie I wasn't I didn't get into IGP because of her Like she was just going to be a pet dog and then I took her out to club one weekend and that was the thing. And I started her with like old school, regimented German, consequence, consequence, consequence training. I was young I mean, it was five years ago I was a completely different trainer back then and I was coming from the horse world where it was like if something happened, you died. It's like it's not, it's not something simple was like if something happened, you died Like it's not, it's not something simple. So for me it was. And I started with that and my coach looked at me and he was like give me your e-collar and give me your prong collar, go and take this dog for the next two months on a slip lead and if you can't handle her, you shouldn't be training dogs. And I was like, okay, I needed that more than anything. And then we put her on a back tie for a year and a half and turned her into a crazy little drive machine. And now she's getting old so it's starting to taper a little bit, but you know it's. You have to have those moments like with Bruno I never once touched drive building because it was.
Speaker 4:There would always come a point of contention that became dangerous. And when you're training by yourself with a hundred pound dog that looks at you sideways and thinks you know, I think I can take you today, you're setting yourself up to get killed Like it's not. These aren't a joke. And especially when people have these borables and mastiffs and stuff like that. I've had three or four mastiff borable crosses up here and it's all of them have the same issue. There's just no respect. And that respect is first and I had an old german tell me this and it'll never go away if you can't be my best friend and do schutzen, then we can't do schutzen right, like if we can't do this as a team, there's no point in doing.
Speaker 4:And it falls over into the pet world. Perfectly, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure. So, noah, I'm going to call you out. You have been very much in the like pet world right, which is all kind of about like slowing dogs down, reinforcing calm, establishing that relationship, calm, establishing that relationship. But I think now you're ready to take kind of the next steps with Monty in that like, let's be real, he is a working dog, you know he's very much. You got a pointy eared bull herder.
Speaker 1:You have a bull herder um, I think, like you've spent so much time like building that relationship with him and that clarity in your commands, that like you are ready to kind of build that drive in him towards something productive and fun that the two of you can like do together. You know, like give him an outlet for that because you know he has it in him and you've done a really nice job of like the behavioral mod side of things, you know and getting that respect with him. And even in watching your videos you know like you're very no nonsense because you have to be with a dog like that. Um, so, like now I would love and like we can talk about this and like frank and justin, and like some of this stuff too super sporty like you guys all need to like train noah on on the drive building and the sporty stuff.
Speaker 1:Because, like you're definitely there and I think you know I don't talk too much about that because I'm very much like a pet trainer and we're in that first stage, that behavioral mod that you know, that like slowing the dogs down, building that connection, establishing the basic stuff first, establishing that relationship, and then, like very few of my clients get to the actual like fun stuff, unfortunately, because like we're just doing the basics, like we're just figuring out how to walk our dogs down the street. So that's kind of what I emphasize. But like from trainer to trainer, like I would love to see you get more into like the sporty world with Monty and really like build him up, because I think that would just take your guys's relationship to the next level of kind of seeing him and like I know you've got it in you, let's do something with it.
Speaker 3:You know, I would love that, that'd be, that'd be so fun. I just I don't know, like the first thing about where to start, and like I'm assuming this is what you meant by fancy obedience. And like the boy loves to learn and like so do I, like we are literally such mirrors of each other, so I would absolutely love, like any information, starting points, books, like podcasts I love to just absorb it also definitely.
Speaker 1:Who do you guys recommend um I?
Speaker 6:would say shane. Shane is probably like I don't know if you know who Shane Murray is, but like he started off with a reactive bully, his name's Zeus, and that led him kind of into the sport worlds. And now he I think he just got his protection dog certificates for his two dogs, but it started off as a reaction case, a reactive, reactive case, a behavior case for him, and now Zeus is a protection dog, but he, he is the. It started off as a reaction case, a reactive, reactive case, a behavior case for him, and now zeus is a protection dog, but he, he is the uh like a prime example of uh, like a reaction dog turned to working dog yeah like he pretty much made zeus and I think it it's.
Speaker 6:It stems from obedience. Like I am an obedience lover but in most clubs you can't take your dog to bite work unless they have some sort of obedience foundation. You can't bring your dog and let them bite stuff because then, like, bad things will happen. Bad things are going to happen. But if I have like a down, an out, like an enough, anything enough, anything like to stop my dog from doing something, or like I can slap my dog and she starts barking, like anything, those those are it's obedience. If I can make my dog bark and stop them from barking, it's obedience, it's control and that's what I feel like schutzen starts, or bite work in general. It starts with control. So, and I think you have gained the control you need more puppy. You just kind of want to like exude it with him doing something else and it's like to call it bite work in sports it is like a thing, but I honestly just think of it as play like.
Speaker 6:If you think if you make it play for him, it'll just be fun, it like realistically, unless you actually want to do some sort of like bite sport with him. It's that it could become a thing, but in the beginning just think of it as play, get a tug and like, make like, learn how to like, make him bite, get a good bite on him and learn how to actually like play with him. And that leads to like, yeah, you back tying him and like, getting him riled up to actually like bite a pillow or something like that. But I think it starts with the ob that you've already done, the, the structure and the control that you have of him and, again, the no nonsense like he'll know when job's done and when we're actually having fun and when you're allowed to bite something, when I don't let you bite something he'll know based off just your attitude. So, yeah, I think that like I can definitely send you like everything that he has a.
Speaker 1:He has a mighty networks yeah, shane has exactly, he has like a community on the same app as this is yeah, like videos on all of the like nine dollars a month yeah, I see that he's in southern california too, like I would love to, if anyone knows of anyone like in the area.
Speaker 3:It didn't look like he's doing private lessons right now, but like I'm definitely like uh oscar's out there.
Speaker 4:Yes, I was gonna say oscar oscar's got like a team of people that work for him.
Speaker 6:I even like I had three people messaging me the other day and I sent them to him and I'm in canada and and like they've loved him for for and again, it was just introducing their dog to bite work. They knew OB, they knew like some sort of obedience. It was just introing their dog to actually biting stuff and that's all.
Speaker 4:My question is Oscar Moore canines okay cool you want to be a dog trainer, right like that, you. That's what you want to do.
Speaker 3:Like yeah, it's just like Meg knows, I have mad imposter syndrome.
Speaker 4:Girl. Listen. Same same, through and through. I sit outside of people's houses and have to do breathing exercises. Trust me, I feel you. It's crippling. Yeah, what I want to tell you is I did my first dog with someone and I didn't learn much. It was very plug and play. It was very. The things I learned were very theoretical and it was really good for me as a young trainer. I learned more with Bruno and it sounds like from what you've said about Monty. They're similar, right. They're very strong, very serious, very direct. They're dominant style, outfit style dogs, right.
Speaker 4:As much as I hate to stay away from those words, it's the truth with certain dogs. If I were you you've made some really good friends in here I would pay the $9 a month to Shane. I would pay the $9 a month to Dave Croyer $9 a month to Shane. I would pay the $9 a month to Dave Croyer and I would pay like another $9 a month to somebody who does really nice obedience but that's purely positive like Denise Fenzi. Okay, and the reason why I would do that is you are going to hit roadblocks as you move forward in this Like you're going to. There is no easy way, especially when you get an older dog, or you got him as a puppy, though, right? Okay, I mean, like with me, I got an older dog and there are certain things like something happened, whether it was a month before I got him or when he was eight weeks old right, something happened that I wasn't privy to that. I'm now trying to play therapist in my head to figure out how I get around this, and if I didn't have those moments, I wouldn't have been able to walk into that pit bull's house the other day, get bit three times, grabbed him by the collar, walk up to the top of the stairs and be like we're not doing. This Allows you to become confident in something so precise and have a vocabulary that's so in depth that you can make your clients trust you in a way that other people can't. Right, and you have to have those adversities. You've got to get bit by your own dog. You've got to. And when you're stepping up the game, I mean I'm sure Meg's been bit by her Mally, like I'm sure I know I've talked to them. 'm sure Meg's been bit by her Mally, like I'm sure I know I've talked to them, I know he's been bit, like we've all been bit to the point where you're like I think we're good, right, you're super gluing things back together in the house Like it's we've been there but those things are so necessary I wouldn't go to someone, I would utilize what they have out there. You also seem like a very bright individual that you could take apart things and look at the theory and be like I'm not doing that right, like that's not going to work. You don't seem like the type of person that's going to go down the list and be like checkmark, checkmark, checkmark, checkmark. I tried that. That didn't work. I knew it wasn't going to work. Like knowing your dog is really, really good. And that's personally what I did and it was the best thing I ever did. I mean, I was paying Robert Cabral, which was a little bit of a different style altogether. It was more pet trainee, but he came from a background of that. I had the Dave Croyer one. There was like 15 or 16, like $5 ones that I did at the time. This was four years, three years ago so, and I wouldn't have traded that for anything and that's like why I signed up for something like this. Like I've been training dogs for a while and I have a pretty good aspect of it, but you have to keep learning and if you have the chance to train a dog like you have, which I've seen the videos and I can tell you right now, you're going to have a lot of fun and you're going to learn things and you're going to cross bridges and you're going to know what not to do and you're going to figure out new tools that you've never had to use before, thought you'd have to use before.
Speaker 6:I would say like, even if you can do like some sort of bite sport research and then like, start at the basics from there. My problem was I didn't really know what I was, what bite sport I wanted to do when I got into it. I just knew that dogs bit people.
Speaker 6:I I know I knew that we let dogs bite people and I didn't really know there was igp versus psa, versus like I didn't really know um, but now that I know, like there are certain things that I would have done like six months ago for puppy to get her to that point, and it's not that it's like a flaw, but it just makes the confusion less. Like I really wanted to do psa but my puppy's defensive, so like she's not really a psa prospect, I would. It's like I'd be pushing her to do pA, whereas like IGP is more of a structure and a like. Again, as Frank was saying, it's like a relationship. It's it's me and her doing things that she knows that I want to do and she wants to do it too, and then we kind of like talk to each other during it and have fun after, whereas like PSA is kind of like defend me and like it's a little different taste of dog training, but I I found that out doing it with her, as opposed to like knowing what it was and then picking my choice.
Speaker 6:So I would say, like if you were to get into any white sports, do the research on what they are and then, like you know your dog so you can choose like, hey, my dog might like this. Or like my dog like, might might like object guarding. Or my dog might like I don't know, like whatever it may be that you see, or something that you like that you want to teach puppy. It just makes it more ease as opposed to oh, I'm doing this because I think my dog might like this. You know what I mean. Like, if you like it and you think your dog is gonna like it, the energy you have doing it will be way higher than if you were to just say, hey, I think my dog needs to bite stuff, so that's why I'm here yeah but yeah, I, we can definitely send you stuff yeah, I'll send you everything that I have, and all my old videos too, I'll send over to you.
Speaker 4:Yes, please. I really start up videos from like start to finish. I have almost all of bruno's stuff on record so yes, please, yeah like bad, but I'll send it to you yeah, and I'm here.
Speaker 1:Like I know gilroy is far, but if you ever want to like take a trip up here, like we'll be at primal for a while and oh I forgot, you know yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And, um, mike, is I really like what they do at primal? Because I'm not. I did igp, like foundation stuff, with minka and I hated igp, not because of the sport, but because of the people were so mean to me that they literally made me cry and I was like this sucks, so I hated doing it. So then minka hated doing it, like we would pull up to the field and we would both be like, oh, like she's like please don't take me out of the crate, I'm like girl we got to do it.
Speaker 3:I don't want to either. They're just gonna yell at us.
Speaker 1:So I had a super bad taste in my mouth with sports and I was like I'm not doing sports, like fuck this.
Speaker 1:And then like I got introduced to mike last year and he helped me like build minka up in like a fun way with like no pressure, and they're very much like they build protection dogs and so I like the idea of doing protection because it's it's like a purpose, you know, versus sport is like very sporty and it's very precise.
Speaker 1:I'm not real big on like the precision but like I like doing the protection work with Minka, cause I like having a protection dog. You know, I like having a dog that I can say Stellan and she, you know, pops off like that as a deterrent um. But I got into it more so with like mike and primal because he's very big on like making it not intimidating for people. You know like he'll they'll never make you feel dumb, they'll never like make you feel like you, you know, don't have a good enough dog. You know like he's very open and so if you ever want to like come out here and do like bite night with us, like he would love to to help you intro stuff with Monty too, and also he has canine university um. That's where I learned all of my obedience and sporty stuff from is watching his videos.
Speaker 4:I've been fangirling over Mike for a long time. He's got great products online like really really really high level, great products and his facility stunning.
Speaker 1:So there's oh yeah, it's like it's stunning.
Speaker 4:I remember the first time I saw it on Instagram. I was like what is that? I need that in my life.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, I was was gonna say you're located in San Diego, right? Yeah so I know canine decoy Neil has trained and worked under um them for a while and he's located in the San Diego area oh Neil would love Monty.
Speaker 5:He's known for working off breeds really well and I also know CG Dog Sports and Alex and Oscar also work at a warehouse down here where we invite a lot of people out for like fight nights as well as like days where they come out and they do seminars for free. And he also does one a month where it's a helper night and you can come out and basically learn everything for free usually and it's one night a month. He invites everybody out. You can take bites. That is Schutzen based, but Oscar and Alex also work there, so you'll see Schutzen at the same time as seeing PSA, as well as personal protection and police training, so you'll see the multiple different types of bite work.
Speaker 5:That really helped me because I came from personal protection so I didn't really understand, like building dogs drive, why, like sport, people wanted the crazier dogs, the better dogs. Like I came from a business that I worked under, divine Canine, so he he really pushed like structure neutrality. We didn't want those crazy dogs. Um. So when I came like to other bite sports, it was cool to see like the structure as well as the dogs that could come out with that heat and still be able to turn it on and off, um. So I think that'll be good for you to go out and see.
Speaker 5:There's also like. So I think that'll be good for you to go out and see. There's also like I don't know if you've ever like, tried like Frisbee, or even like Fast Cat for Monty, or like scent training A lot of dogs like scent games. That gets them really excited to work for their meals, yeah, so those are a lot of different options. I do know I believe there's like certain disc competitions as well as seminars out in San Diego, but it all depends on what you're looking for and what you're hoping to do with Monty. There's also like Rally Obedience, which is super structured, but I heard a lot of high drive dogs like that as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, if you don't mind some, or if you can just like DM me some of those people that are down here and like their business profiles, and then I can at least like start to follow and check their stuff out, Cause, yeah, it's like this is a whole other world. I'm like you guys are using acronyms. I don't even know what they say.
Speaker 4:You'll learn real quick. There's an acronym for everything and you will be a part of about 16.
Speaker 5:That's just. Yeah, I still don't know half this stuff people are saying sometimes, but since we're so close, yeah, since we're so close, you can always like come down with me and we can go together that way, like it's not like a new, like new place and 100 new people too, because I'm the same way, like I'm imposter syndrome all the way. So it's hard for me to show up with complete confidence.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I would love that.
Speaker 1:It will also make you a much better pet trainer. Like doing any sort of sports, because you're typically surrounded by people who that is their hyper fixation and they spend all day doing that thing, where I feel like are like almost kind of doing the bare minimum you know and they don't always like push themselves to learn more. So when you surround yourself with people who are doing sport and people who are like really passionate about those things, like you have to think sport is like reverse engineering, pet training right, because in sport we're building up drive, whereas with pet training a lot of time you're like reeling it in, you know. So if you can build reactivity, you can stop reactivity you know, opposite.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah um, yeah, I'm definitely trying to be, eventually, that chick that comes in this like tiny little girl who is like not afraid of getting your like dog with a bite history, like aggressive dog under control and then just yeah, like mix that in with the nutrition and everything. And also having one with Monty sounds like, sounds great, because I do feel like we've built our relationship back up like a lot and like our communication is better than ever and I'm like where do we go from here?
Speaker 1:so you need to go white people yeah you need to, I love. Neil, he would. He would love Monty.
Speaker 1:The only thing is like sometimes he's a little too much so you gotta learn to like advocate for Monty and be like all right, that's enough. Neil, like let's wrap it up, cause he just like gets too into it. You know he's like a Malinois, um, so he'll like work your dog for like a little bit too long. And if you're like starting off just like, know that you know your dog more than anybody else. So when you start working with like other trainers or sporty people, like a lot of times they just get really excited. And if you know that like it might be pushing him to a little a little bit too much, don't be afraid to be like OK, that's enough. You know. Like for him.
Speaker 1:I find that, like you know, with some of my old trainers, when we would go and do like sport work, they wouldn't like advocate for dogs and I would have to be like hey, I think that's a little bit too much for him. Like I think you should, you know, end it. Or, you know, whenever you do take him, I would say like go to watch people first.
Speaker 4:Don't bring your dog the first time. Don't not bring your dog the first time time and tell don't tell people you want to be a dog trainer like. Those are the two tips. You want to be accepted in any sport world, ever, period, ever. Don't bring your dog the first time and do not tell anyone you're a dog trainer. You just have a cool dog that you want to do things with, like, and then everybody will be your friend.
Speaker 1:You won't have to worry about catty stuff yeah, and then just like, when you do bring him to work him and hopefully, like summer, can go with you because she knows all the people just like be very transparent about, like everything you know. Like be transparent about like, hey, he gets sketchy when you lean over him. You know, like like, uh, I was working minka the other day and the decoy grabbed her paw and she like let go of the sleeve to go to bite him. And I was like, yeah, she doesn't care about biting a sleeve, like she wants. You know, if you give her the opportunity, she's gonna bite you, like she's gonna live bite you. So like we're not there yet you can't grab her paw. Like she will let go of the bite to like bite you. So like be very transparent about like hey, we do have a bite. He has bitten somebody before. This is what happened, you know. And then they're not going to apply that sort of pressure to like, yeah, that you know you can build them up slowly like I know he looks.
Speaker 3:He's like a really good actor. He looks like great on camera but I'm like he's still very. He runs more nervous and insecure like for sure.
Speaker 1:But yeah, but that's like, why sport will be good for you is because you can build up his confidence too I was just gonna say that, like I think bella is a very nervous dog.
Speaker 6:I'm from her owner. She is like from when she was six, seven months. I would take her on public and she would just tremble, like for just we're out in public and she would just be standing there shaking and I'm thinking like it's the cold. It's not like as she grew I've I've accepted it. She is a nervous dog and I've also accepted the fact that bite work has made her more confident. It makes her feel big, it literally makes her feel like she is.
Speaker 6:She can take on anything, and like nothing really means like she doesn't feel the fear in that session or in that realm. I find, and it trickles into her life now, like there are things where, like I noticed she wouldn't do before, where she doesn't question it now or she doesn't really think it's like as scary. Um, but it I think it that stemmed from her learning how to self-regulate using bite work, like learning a calm grip and learning how to breathe her nose when she has a bite, all those like small little things that like we went through. I I think it helped her mentally in real life, which is weird.
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you guys find that Like, what kind of owners are you getting? Because I obviously get like dog mommies. So you know that's kind of like my clientele is like pretty much every dog that I get is either reactive or reactive, plus like extremely bossy and pushy and like jumps up and drags the owner down the street and pushes them, but I'm not saying too many people who like actually want to work their dogs, that's exactly what I work with and that's where I'm at with my training.
Speaker 2:I have all those mommy dogs, and even actually men are even worse, sorry guys they're holding them and they're petting them and doing and undoing the training that we've taught, and they even admit and say I'm sorry, I'm the one who does all the extra.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I am struggling with that with my clients, meaning that when I come in, they're like, oh, but the dog is perfect. When you come in, the dog listens to you, but they're not listening to me. And the structure of what I put in there and my whole demeanor and the way I set myself is that dog is totally fixed on me and the families are like, please live with me, why won't the dog stay? So I tell my husband all the time listen, I have plenty of places to go if you ever want to throw me out of the house. Yeah, so, um, so that's what I'm having where, um, and I'm keeping a lot of clients for up to six months to a year because what's happening is they're forgetting or they're not continuing that same structure to follow through with the dog, with the leash reactivity, with the guarding of the food, with you know all that stuff crates as the crate is like taboo.
Speaker 1:Um, my dog, that's the biggest thing, people are more willing to decolor their dog than crate their dog. They think I'm a horrible human being for crating dogs, so I explain.
Speaker 2:And I say when we had babies. Of course I have to tell the ones who've had babies Some people haven't had children and their dog is their baby what did we do? We did cribs. We did car seats. We put seatbelts on we. What did we do? We did cribs, we did car seats, we put seatbelts on. We had play pens. Why did you do that? It's for more safety and keep a certain kind of control of your baby or your toddler, not getting into everything or anything or getting hurt. It's the end to calm down and relax and take a nap there. That's really my hardest with the crate. It's also the hardest with the continuing of following through on the basic training that your dog needs to listen to you and be obedient to you and to follow through.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and that's what I'm working on. You're getting the dog. Mommies too, I get the dog mommies. Yeah.
Speaker 6:I think all I can say think the dog dads are the worst, the fact that they agree and will say, oh yeah, it's my fault, but then ask me what to do. It very much confuses me, do?
Speaker 6:they listen to you? Yes, but I have to ask them, bro, bro, much confused. Do they listen to you? Yes, but I have to like, I have to be like bro, I really have to like, talk to them, like, like, I feel like, if, if, if I did that, like the way I have to speak to them, it's very, it's not like I, it's not like a trainer anymore. I have to pretty much.
Speaker 6:Imagine, me imagine me like yo go get a beer and let's talk about this because, like, come on meanwhile, they have the dog up here, yeah, and they're like they're petting him while they're, I'm like, stop touching him. They're like why? I'm like because he literally is looking for you. And then when they stop, what does he do? Jump. They're like, oh, but I'm like, stop, stop. And I find what I do actually, I think comparing yourself is usually like very, it actually gets to them I tell them that yeah.
Speaker 2:So when I say what do you?
Speaker 6:think my dog is doing. When I'm here, my dog is in her crate. I left my dog in her crate. She's been in her crate since, since I drove when I got here. She's good, see you, frank. But but that's what I, that's really what I'll say. I'll compare them to my dog because if they don't, usually my clients are like oh well, I know bella's this and I know bella does that, but my dog will never get like that. And I'm like well, if you did this, then your dog can. And they're like oh okay, but then it it's never really actually followed through, but it's.
Speaker 6:I find people don't actually think about what your dog does when it's not on camera. So, like most of my clients, I've only seen my dog on camera. So I'm like when she's not on camera, I either have an eye on her I know what she's doing or she's in her crate doing nothing. Because I I don't know what you're doing and it's not because I like don't trust my dog to be free or in their own. Like, yeah, I do when I can visually see what you're doing.
Speaker 6:But I'm not going to get mad at you for biting the couch because I'm not watching you. That's my fault. You should have been in your crate then I don't know what else. So I find me comparing myself to whatever the situation is like, even if I leave my client. I'm like, what are you about to do to, like, create my dog? I'm like, exactly because you're about to go do something and puppy just got work for 45 minutes, you did your job. If puppy peed, pooed, when you fed them a little bit and you played with them, you have no other job to do.
Speaker 1:Realistically, your dog should be fine and it's great for the next x amount of time until you redo the cycle so it's interesting too, because I feel like, and like I'm even like, guilty of this too, but like dog training revolves around like teaching the dog what to do right, like the obedience stuff, that the fun stuff, but like the biggest change in the dog's behavior comes from the boring stuff, just creating them yes, the most boring stuff.
Speaker 6:Or just actually creating them, or going outside and doing nothing. They're like. My dog always wants to run up to dogs. Go outside and do nothing with them. Go outside, let your dog see dogs and do nothing with them. That that's pretty much the boring, most boring thing you could do with your dog. But nobody wants to do it. Because it's boring. Yeah, and that's why you're, that's why your dog's doing what it's doing. Because you're doing, you're letting it do the fun, even you even you.
Speaker 1:You're like she's whining. You're she's whining, I was like you're doing too much like I do.
Speaker 6:I know, I know you. I wake up, I'm like well, what do you want to do?
Speaker 5:What do you want to?
Speaker 6:do yeah, and again, that's why it's seeing like a mirror of it. So like when I see a client now and they're like, well, like I should be my dog, just after you leave, they just do, they create the biggest mess. I'm like, well, well, why are they out?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm getting I get phone calls or I get videos. See, this is what they did. And I said what did you do? And I said, well, they'll. I ran to the bathroom. I ran to the store for 10 minutes. Why didn't you use the crate? Why didn't you have the leash on him, why or her, while you were staying in the family room or in the living room?
Speaker 6:so I actually have a client right now. His he hasn't been able to use his front door. I I'm going to meet him for the first time on saturday. He hasn't been able to use his front door for three months because if he walks in the front door his dog pees out of excitement. Eight month old doberman, I'm like do you have a crate? He crate. He goes, yeah, but like dog doesn't like it, dog doesn't like it. I don't like him peeing. So what are we weighing here? Like he's gonna have to go in his crate man. I don't really care. If he doesn't like it, I don't like him. I don't like cleaning up pee Three months, 90 days. You ever use your front door? I'm like come on, man, like we got, this is I'm a hostage.
Speaker 1:I had a client who had two doodles. She never left her house. She would bring the dog into the bathroom with her to shower, cause. I was like don't you leave your house? And she was like, no, somebody's always home with him. And I was like, do you shower? And she was like I bring him in to the shower. I was like you realize how crazy that sounds, right, that's insane Bowering with your dog.
Speaker 3:We used to my grandpa's dog. They'd just open the door and they'd go roam for the day. He'd go get meatballs down the street from a neighbor, Come back with a couple cuts a day or two later.
Speaker 1:It's just crazy how much shit has changed, wow I know I know it's wild, so like I don't know you saying you have imposter syndrome. It goes away very quickly when you start to actually work with people and you're like. They're like, oh, my dog is doing this. Oh, yes, yes, crate magic, you know. Yeah, like my favorite thing to do with people is like the crate door threshold stuff. They're like, oh, my dog is just like always rushing out. I'm like, okay, great dog goes, rush out, slam the crate door, open the crate door. The dog stays. And they're like what?
Speaker 1:and you're like, yeah, the basic stuff like blows people's minds, I feel like, but I don't know, I never get like sporty people. If I do get sporty people, they're like half sporty. Where they're like sometimes I don't know. I get like reactive dog clients who are like my dog wants to bark, so like I want to do bite work with them and I'm like okay, but then they'll like allow the dog to like be reactive with like people coming up to them and they're like but it's, it's the bite work that we're doing. And I'm like no, like that's not what this is Like you have to correct for that. Like it's a what this is Like you have to correct for that. Like it's a time and a place you know.
Speaker 2:I've been diverting that to oh, what can we do? What does your dog like to do, as we were mentioned about Frisbees, a ball or something to that effect and I tell them 10, 15 minutes. Take your dog out and give them some kind of you know, a play time. I say play dates or not with another dog, but like yourself and and and throw two balls around and it's 10, 15 minutes. That dog's going to be exhausted because you made that dog work and it's not considered working. Just gave him or her some free time to play and get that energy out, and then you can relax back in the house, sit down. If the dog doesn't lay down on their bed or on place, then they can go in the crate for a little bit. Yep.
Speaker 1:Boring stuff. I love my crate.
Speaker 6:I honestly I vouch for the crate. I don't know what Doberman owners do, and I'm specifically talking to Doberman owners. I don't know what they did without a crate. If you don't have a crate for your dog, I don't know how you do it. Like my dog does not stop, like my dog does not stop, she will pace the house like tired. She would pace the house like falling asleep, pacing just like she doesn't really have an off switch and the crate made that.
Speaker 1:I live by it if I left minka and millie out anywhere like this whole house would like have no walls like there's and people are like dog bit the couch cushion. I'm like create them, like my dogs would do the same shit. You know, like that's so much fun destroying a couch cushion they would love that they're like oh, it's an old couch, I'll just get another one.
Speaker 2:Well then, you're gonna do that. Go for it.
Speaker 1:You can keep paying me for continuing training for a year or two yeah, exactly, um, how do we feel about everything so far, about all of the videos? I don't know how far y'all have gotten. There's like a ton of videos. Obviously you're not gonna like watch all of them at once, um, but how do we feel about the training stuff so far?
Speaker 3:good, very good yeah yes, I think pretty good. I did have a question like because obviously with the e-collar stuff and like I don't know which video it was in, but I think it was mabel's when it was like intense play would be like a big correction on the e-collar and like I feel like with Monty, like historically that kind of amps him up. So I don't know if it's like been my timing. I don't use the e-collar like for that anymore. I always have it on him if he's off leash. But like we typically don't like meet other dogs and go hang out with them like and also if I have the ball he's locked in on me so if another dog comes up he sniffs like they want to run for a second, like that's usually just kind of it.
Speaker 3:But if they don't get along or if Monty is playing and he's being like a little overbearing, I guess on the other dog and I can tell the other dog doesn't like it like I have a hard time using the e-collar to like get him off, like I've had it at times up to a hundred and like he literally just doesn't feel it like. I don't know if it's, I don't know what. Are you using mini educator?
Speaker 1:so that's. It's like you have to think it's a very weak e-caller. You have a pretty strong dog. Yes, damn, that's. Yeah, you might need to like get a bigger e-caller, yeah but.
Speaker 6:but I would say like, if you, if you can get him to lock on you for the ball, yeah. Over the person, over the dog, then, like you, can kind of reward the ball with the e-caller, if it works, because if your e-caller is used as a gas pedal and he sees the ball and I say, yes, monty, whatever, and I stim him twice, he's going to come for it.
Speaker 6:Yeah, like, and that'll just be like, even if I stim him at like a 20, like he'll still come for it, even if I like whatever, I'm sure you will know what to do, but in the moment, if you can catch his eye and, like you know, he's going to go for the ball over the dog then I would a stronger e-collar just for emergency purposes.
Speaker 3:The boss one. Yeah, because that's all that I use it for. Like I barely even touch it, honestly, when I'm off leash because, like he's so his commands are so locked in, and especially when I have bought, like he sees nothing else, so that, uh, I would literally only use it if he like sees a cat or like runs after, like another dog really yeah, like it.
Speaker 1:I would say you're not going to use it 99.9 of the time, but like for that 0.1. Like I would have a stronger e-collar in case you do need to like crank it up in moments like that. So for Mabel, right, was it Mabel's go-home session? Okay, so Mabel was like the biggest leash puller ever and usually when I get dogs that put a ton of pressure on the leash, we're typically at a really high level on the e-caller. And her owner got the e-caller but he was like basically tickling her with it, like she was not a sensitive dog. So everything that I did with him was like you got to dial up on your e-caller to be meaningful, because with me she was great, but her owner was like soft spoken, like very gentle, you know. So he's like oh, I want to take her to my friend's house with their dog, but she's too much and she was just.
Speaker 1:She's that type of dog where, like she greets too intensely, she plays too intensely and the only way to disrupt that is a high level e-caller, and it's not even a correction to her, it's a disruptor. You know, like she's never like. She's like okay, you know what's worth it to her. So dialing up in those moments for her was a disruptor. So, like for Monty, if he's super locked in on something, you might have to dial up to a high level until you grab his attention.
Speaker 1:It just think of it as a disruptor. You're disrupting the behavior that he's currently in. If what he's doing is very rewarding or he's very locked in and focused, then it's going to take a super high level to get him out of that. So, like minka has crazy prey drive with like animals, small animals like for me, to get her off of chasing a squirrel, a mini educator would not do anything for her. Like I'm pressing and holding at a high and it's nothing because that is so rewarding to her that like she's just so zoned in that that's not going to do anything. So I would need, like a higher level stim to just be able to like grab her attention at all yeah, okay, makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you won't get a water. Dogs like that Say that again.
Speaker 2:I actually did that with my German shepherd because he was very high prey mode, you know, prey aggressive and even with other animals around and obviously I have more dogs. So it's we went from actually we originally did the muzzle so that he could be around the dogs and that he wouldn't even, you know, try to bite or he would growl. I did his correction with the rewards and then we moved into the e-collar and now once that e-collar goes on I hardly have to use it because then he's pretty much at an alert position to look at me for all the commands. And now I can put him with like 10 dogs, which I never thought. Now he's going to be seven and I really thought I would never be able to mix him with my own personal dogs, the other dogs, because we're all obviously in the same house. So it has been working with that A few high stem dogs hits he. He got it with the commands question.
Speaker 4:I don't know if you covered this or not. Did you cover if an e-collar cannot be used? Because I ran into that with bruno, like we could not use an e collar, even on 127, on a doctor, 2300 to extinguish things or to get things clear, because he just pushed past threshold into just seeing red and becoming a junkyard dog. So, like for me, we had to utilize, which something I'm not proud of, but it had to be done for his well-being, and now he can be out in public, is a dominant dog collar but, like the, the nylon slip just straight up in the air until, like, we are at a point where we can be a dog and we can come back. Um, do you come across? I mean, that's a very sport world thing do you have you had to come across that meg with your pet clients?
Speaker 1:uh, it's almost dog. Yeah, like stim was just jacking him up, yeah, and he was just you know.
Speaker 1:So I was like high and tight and that's what I said when I was doing the session with mink. She's that type of dog because I stemmed her at a seven and she went and like whipped around and went to snap at me. So if she started chewing on that leash, like you have to, the slip leads that I have are pretty small but like the dominant dog collar is like very, very small and it's really for like choking dogs off out you know, like choking them out, you know, and it's I.
Speaker 4:My coach looked at me and he was like there's no other like you. It needs to be done. And that was one of the. I remember I looked at him and I said I'm not doing it. And he said then sell the dog. And I sat there and I was like I know damn well if this dog goes to anybody else, he's getting put down. I've had him for seven months. We'll give it a try and if it works, it works. And we only had to have that conversation once yeah, like it wasn't like a thing that need.
Speaker 4:Now, when we go to the vet or we're getting ready for a microchip test or something like that, you bet your ass that there's a black dominant dog collar hidden in that coat. Like it's in there because it's just who he he is. But like that's a really tough thing, and especially I mean I've come across it once with one of my pet dogs and it was it was a tough conversation to have, but it was one of those things where it's like either the dog gets put down tomorrow or we give it a good hearty try and see if we can fix something. And I'm have a little bit more of a heart than to just be like, well, maybe we should just put them down if we can try one more thing. And we ended up saving the dog's life.
Speaker 1:So know it's I'm almost kind of more of an advocate for that versus e-caller. Personally, like with behavioral mod dogs, with dogs that are like have bite history, right. So like mink is not a regular pet dog, right, like I am her last hope for anything, I almost don't like e-caller with her because it's less personal. I want it to be very personal of like that's what I was gonna say okay
Speaker 1:yeah hi, you know like there has to be a consequence and it's coming from me, whereas I feel like e-caller is just so less personal and foreign to dogs that it can almost be kind of confusing when they are in those just like really cranked up states you know, and that's so, like when I have dogs that get like that.
Speaker 4:But I know I can still utilize the e-collar, I will pair it with the prong collar with a really big prong collar correction on top of a really big e-collar correction once, so that they understand that comes from me, right? Yeah, and with a lot of pet dogs it's like this hand of god correction, like oh, that window's hot, I can't put all four of my paws on it. Going 30 miles an hour through the house, I can't do that. Got it, that window's hot. But instead, instead of going from like the horse pasture electric fence of like you can't go there, like that, that's not a thing. It kind of turns into that came from me you get back here and we have another conversation about how this is going to go, because there has to be that respect there, because if it's not there, then it turns into something even worse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and also I feel like dominant dog collars and slip leads are like the safest option for dogs, like that Cause, like it's the only thing that will actually keep them from biting up at you. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's the safest thing for us 100%. But if you don't know what you're doing, you can. You can hurt a dog Like you. I've seen that happen, especially with sport dog people. There's a lot of bad eggs out there and you know it's. It's an old world, but on top of things it's like it. You just got to be smart about it at the end of the day but also they're like hanging their dogs because they like suck at obedience.
Speaker 1:You know what?
Speaker 4:I'm saying it's your fault because you're you're getting into arguments because you're not clear in what you're trying to dispatch exactly. You know what?
Speaker 6:I was going to say, noah, this would be a good sign. That's why I feel you would excel in Spide Sports, because you have the OBE right in your dog is kind of just like jiving. You have a crazy dog, which is good. Some people want, they want a crazy dog, but you have control of the crazy dog More fun.
Speaker 6:And you have a good relationship with him too, which is the most important, fun, way more fun, yeah, but in in like the rough house of the fat world. Yes, most people just build a crazy dog and there is no relationship. They just have this like thing that is a demon, literally like I was listening to a podcast of I'm not sure if you're familiar with justin rigney, but he had a dog that it was his wife's dog that he pretty much just had. So like, uh, in order for the dog to come inside the house, he couldn't take the dog out of the car. His wife had to come inside to get the dog out of the car because it would try to kill him literally every, every day, every time. And he took it to work and to get it out of the car from work was like he would say, like if I got this car, if I got this dog from the car to the kennel, and like from the kennel to the field, like I was gonna have a good day without. That was gonna be a good day. And like that's what people wanted at that time, like they wanted it. If, like would he always makes it.
Speaker 6:Was like if his dog didn't try to bite him in, like, within the time he had the dog, he didn't want the dog anymore, it wasn't driving enough, whereas now, like, and it's, it's crazy, he said.
Speaker 6:He says it is female owners that create this dog. You have a dog that loves you so much but it's so already drivey as a dog, but because it loves you so much, it just kind of wants to do stuff for you, so like, yeah, it's very, very drivey, but it's not trying to eat you, it just wants to bite whatever you tell it to bite, with control. And that's the major difference I find with dogs now and like the dog that we were talking about, like a crazy dog and it's not saying that like the crazy dog can't be handled, of course, with love and compassion. Usually it just takes. Like frank said, you have to build a relationship, there has to be some sort of hey, I'm not trying to hurt you and you shouldn't be trying to hurt me and we can talk, but you already have that. So I feel like the other aspect of it all will just be fun yeah, and that's why I'm like able to handle mink.
Speaker 1:Now is like before she wanted to kill me. Like every single time I would take her out of the crate she would stare at me and I had to hang her because she would launch herself at my face. And then she got a gnarly hot spot from a bark caller and I was like all right, girl, like we gotta like each other now and we had that relationship and now I can handle her like, I can pet her. I, you know she still every once in a while gives me that like side eye, but I can look at her and be like no, don't, don't do this, you know, not do that. Yeah, like you can't, you can't do it. So, having that relationship but I think it's an important conversation for us to have about like correcting dogs in the different ways, because it's like we don't like correcting dogs right, nobody likes it, but a lot of this, yeah, like a lot of the dogs that you get will be dogs that like have never been corrected and sometimes it's their last hope.
Speaker 6:I don't know who brought it up or said it, but like the piggy bank system when it comes to dogs is what I find like works the best. If I can't withdraw from all my deposits that I've given you and of course we have to give deposits in order to withdraw but that's the relationship. If I've, if I've deposited enough towards you, I'm, I will be able to correct you and you not try to eat me, because I've I've deposited a lot and it's like that deposit might be a 50, but there's like 790 in there. So we're good, it's all good, but there's a lot of people that are withdrawing from a negative dog pretty much already, which is why I don't see that.
Speaker 1:I feel like people are too soft with dogs and I I almost feel like trainers are like, uh, depositing too much, to the point where, like they're never correcting the dog or never asking for anything in return from the dog I find, yeah, you like I would say they're correct.
Speaker 6:They're depositing to a dog that is doing bad things, pretty much so like they don't know, like they don't know to correct, so they just kind of try to give the another deposit somewhere else yeah the where they should be corrected, just kind of explodes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I see a lot of. It's interesting because I feel like the conversation around like correcting dogs and like tools and stuff is always like it's abuse and it's aversive and it's aversive and it's like I have never come across a trainer where I was like, okay, this is too much, like usually. It's like.
Speaker 4:Hey, turn it up, yeah, turn it up.
Speaker 1:Somebody you know, but I think it comes from a place of like we're all most of us are in the industry because we want to like help dogs, you know, and it's like we don't want to correct dogs, but it's kind of a necessary evil in order for them to stay out of shelters and like live. You know, I like my opinion has changed on this a lot over the years because I used to take on very aggressive dogs, very like forwardly aggressive dogs, dogs that nobody else would take, and I can train the dogs all day long. But the problem is management fails. Because that's what you're doing. You're training for management and like that dog's gonna hurt somebody. Like you can crate, train it all day long, you can muzzle, train it all day long, but like and eventually yeah, and it's like when management fails, like it is literally life or death.
Speaker 1:I agree I agree.
Speaker 4:It's just a tough one. It's never easy when we have to have that conversation. No, it's spending a training week with a happy note, huh frank no, but it's like, it's very real, you know, and it's like I mean, I've crossed it before. It's not incredibly rare. Like it happens, people seek out advice when they feel as though they've hit rock bottom, and that rock bottom is different for everyone yeah, I trained a?
Speaker 1:um, a golden retriever. That was kind of like what you're saying, just like not wired right. Um, he was so overweight, so spoiled, they never created him. They got him from a like a force free rescue. So they convinced this woman that I was like abusive because I wanted to like e-collar. The dog, right, but the dog was such a extreme resource garter that they would like drop a paper towel and the dog, right, but the dog was such a extreme resource garter that they would like drop a paper towel and the dog would like be forwardly aggressive, like if it determined that that object was like valuable.
Speaker 1:I went over there and I was like this dog should not be in this home. He's a golden retriever, he you can find another home for him. Like it's not even like he needed to be euthanized, like just anybody that doesn't have a baby, adopted baby, like what? And they wouldn't. They like would not get rid of the dog.
Speaker 1:They were like to attach the dog and I was like this dog is gonna hurt your baby and I was like it might not be a week from now, it might not be two years from now, but at some point like your dog is going to hurt your kid. And I went over there as like a a last kind of session and I have a good relationship with these people Like they're not dumb, they listen to the things that I say, like they understand, but they're like emotions were getting in the way and it was me and one of our other trainers and she had a cookie in her pocket and she was sitting on the couch and the dog walked up, smelled the cookie and just fucking nailed her in the arm and it's like it's not fun to have those conversations of, like this dog is not safe with you, but like you you might save a fucking life.
Speaker 1:You know, you might save a baby's life, which is so crazy. That's like that's even a thought Cause, like I don't know, I was like talking to Toma about it, like I have I don't have Gretchen with me now, but like Gretchen is my behavioral shepherd, right, she bit Toma Like she's bitten literally everybody, everybody but me. It always happens when I'm not there, in just random situations, you know. And I was like I would never have a child with her, like if my life were different and we had a kid and Gretchen was in the house, like I don't think that I would keep her, like I think I would have to euthanize her because, like I would never put my child's life above a dog's, you know, and it's such a difficult thing, but like it's your kid.
Speaker 6:It's your child. That's what I mean. Like it's one thing to say, like, yes, you had your dog for X amount of time, but like you made this thing Adopted or not. I mean I mean like, even if you adopt a child, it's now yours, it's your child. A dog, as sad as it is, a dog, is replaceable. You can't get another dog, you cannot get another child, it's not anything else, I gotta go eat food dogs thank you for everything, meg of course, there's a really good conversation.
Speaker 4:This means a lot it does.
Speaker 1:Thank you for everything, meg. Of course there's a really good conversation. This means a lot.
Speaker 3:It does, thank you learned a lot, a lot to learn yeah, well, thanks everybody for gassing me up a little bit there and I also want to share that I actually handed in my resignation on Friday.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, congrats. You guys gave me a lot of encouragement because I was very nervous about it, but I feel so good.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. So that's why I was a little late on some of the videos for a little bit, because I had to get all that stuff in.
Speaker 5:I feel like I'm quitting my job. I have a lot of other things. That's good. That's my sign.
Speaker 4:That's my sign.
Speaker 5:Yes, it is Join the dog sign Quit your job. Quit your job.
Speaker 3:That's literally like what this group has become.
Speaker 5:It's like quit your job, be a dog trainer.
Speaker 1:Yes, All right, y'all, Starting tomorrow we're going to get into the business stuff. So tomorrow I'm going to have you guys all submit like a little Google form for everybody to fill out. If you haven't already do the e-caller quiz, it's in the e-caller section of the course. It's just a Google form. It's in the e-caller section of the course. It's just a Google form. It's some practical questions just to get you thinking about using the e-caller and how we would use it in certain situations. And then tomorrow we're going to get clear on values. So I'm going to have you guys submit your values, your goals, all of that sort of stuff in regards to your business and where you see it going, Cause if we don't know where we're going, we don't go anywhere, we don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1:It's not going to be very helpful talking about business stuff. So we want to get really clear on all of that. And then, um, I'll still do training session tomorrow. I might reschedule it because I have to go get this dog. Sorry, on Friday, not tomorrow, but I have to go pick up the dog in LA either tomorrow or Friday. So if I'm getting it on Friday, I'll reschedule our live session until after I have the dog, so you guys can see that. And then next week our call like this will be around all of the business stuff.
Speaker 3:So next week we're throwing all that your way, cool, and you guys are you guys are going to come down to San Diego after you're in LA, right, so we can hang out.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, cool. You have to come up to LA too. I told Shane that I was going to be down there and we can meet up, so I might drag you along with me. If you aren't doing anything, you don't have a job, you can come.
Speaker 3:I don't have a job, I can go. Yes, I don't want my job. Anyway, I'll call out amazing, then you get severance.
Speaker 4:Just kidding off the record, I did not, just so everybody's aware, I did not get severance.
Speaker 1:So I'll keep you updated on that when I'm heading down please do um yeah, we'll still do our live session on friday, unless I let you all know If there's anything you want me to work through. We got a whole bunch of dogs I can bring out, so just let me know. Cool, all right.
Speaker 6:Thanks for being here Later guys.
Speaker 1:Have a good night, nice of your day. Let's talk soon Talk soon.
Speaker 5:Bye, bye All right, guys.
Speaker 1:I hope you enjoyed this conversation. One of my goals this year was to be really transparent in everything that I do, and I feel like sharing this conversation with you kind of gives you that like transparency and the behind the scenes of what it's like to be a dog trainer and, you know, listen in on a conversation amongst dog trainers so I hope you got something out of it. If you're interested in joining our next round of the virtual shadow program again, it starts on January 6th I'll include the link in the show notes. You can schedule an interview with me. We'll make sure it's a good fit. All that jazz. And what else do I have for you? We have our online community. If you want to join that, you can get access to all of our training videos Again, an awesome group of owners and trainers. You can learn how to train your dog on your own. I think that's it. I think that's all I've got for you. So I hope you enjoyed this conversation and we'll see you next week.