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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
Virtual session and we’re talking separation anxiety, reactivity, and confidence building
This episode highlights the challenges of managing dog training while addressing separation anxiety and the unrealistic expectations often placed on both pets and their owners. The conversation emphasizes the importance of play, clear communication, and tailored training methods to cultivate a healthy bond and successful training experience.
• Discussion on separation anxiety and common behavioral issues
• Importance of setting realistic training expectations
• The value of engaging playtime for dogs
• Insights on incorporating structured routines in daily activities
• Recommendations for successful communication techniques
• Encouragement to explore fun activities, including tracking and scent work
Check out everything we’ve got going on at https://www.theeverydaytrainer.com/
Hello, hello and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. Today's episode is a long one, but it's a good one. We cover all of the most important topics, everything from separation anxiety to the value of play, and we also touch on how we might have too high of expectations for our dogs. So this is a virtual session that I did recently. It's the full session I wanted well, almost the full session. I wanted to share a lot of it with you because I feel like there's so much value jam-packed into this session. So you know the drill Grab yourself a tasty drink and meet me back here. All right, guys, welcome back. So sorry that I did not have a episode last week.
Speaker 1:I have to say, recording the podcast on the road has not been easy. I've spoken about it before, but I have very. I don't have internet. Basically I'm just left with my Starlink, which I love, my Starlink but it has horrible download speeds and running a full podcast production actually like requires a lot. So kind of life update. Toma and I have actually been looking at houses Part of us getting out there and like traveling in our vans is. We've been kind of looking for a place to settle. I wasn't really sure whether I wanted to leave Florida and, to be quite honest, I'm still not really sure, like I don't really know 100% where we want to end up. The nice part is like we're not really in a rush, like we have two essentially mobile homes. Right, we have our Sprinter vans that we're able to live in and kind of travel around everywhere and figure out where we want to call home base. But in the meantime I've been slacking on my podcast because internet sucks. But that's okay. We're here today and so are you, so thanks for being here.
Speaker 1:But this episode is really good. We dive into pretty much everything. I wanted to share this virtual session with you guys because I feel like we touch on all the stuff that I'm always preaching about. We talk about, you know, the value of marker words and clear communication, about fulfilling your dogs and exercise and routine and separation, anxiety and how I work through reactivity. We really touch on everything, but I would say the most important takeaway I think from this lesson is sometimes I believe we have too high of expectations for ourselves and our dogs, especially in, you know, this day and age where social media is filled with information from dog trainers telling you what to do. I think sometimes we can take all of this information and, you know, try it out a million different ways, right? So this person had been to quite a few other trainers and you'll hear in the beginning of the session. I'm like, hey, not trying to be mean, but why are you here with me when you've been working with other trainers? So I did blur out the other trainers' names just because I don't really want to like, I don't want to call anybody out, I don't want to make it about anybody else other than the advice that I personally would give. And the cool thing about dog training is there's a million and one ways to train a dog and none of us have the secret sauce. Okay, I promise you there's. There's so many ways that we can train a dog. It really just comes down to how you want to do it, right. So I think you guys are really going to enjoy this episode.
Speaker 1:Before we jump into things though, I got a few housekeeping things March 11th is our next virtual shadow program. So if you are interested in becoming a dog trainer, that is the program that I created. It's three weeks, all online. The first half of it is all about dog training, how I structure training, how I move through problem behaviors, and the second half is all about the business. And then another really cool thing that I'm starting. I have not, I've never done this before. This is a new new thing. Starting in March is we're doing adventure board and trains. Starting in March is we're doing adventure board and trains. So we're only doing two spots for this. I'll be opening it up this week. So if you're listening to this on Friday, I might have already opened it up, but just a couple spots for that and essentially, your dog will come and travel with us in vans.
Speaker 1:We're going to be hitting the desert, so we're going to be in Arizona and also, you know, southern California, yucca Valley, joshua Tree area for some of it. So if you have been wanting to do a board and train with me, now is your opportunity. We're really going to be focused on off-leash stuff. Whether you have a puppy or an older dog that you're wanting to do e-collar with, we're going to do a ton of hiking, just really focused around, like adventure training. Of course we're going to do urban socialization and all this. You know the regular stuff, but I think a big part of this program is that we're going to go hiking, we're going to go out into the desert, go explore, and your dog will get to enjoy that with all of our personal dogs. So it'll be really fun and cool and kind of be like summer camp for dogs basically. But that's all the housekeeping that I have for you today. We'll go ahead and get into the, the juicy part of the episode. Enjoy Hello, hello, hello. I was reading over all of your stuff.
Speaker 2:That's a lot. Right, that's a lot. Yeah, what breed? So he's a bully hound. I write all that and then I miss. Like he's a bully hound. He's done the um, the embark thing, um, whatever that's called um, and he was like. He was like treeing walker coonhound. He was mainly like american, uh, pitbull terrier, but then he had like a lot of like the coonhounds in him and like those were like his biggest one, like American English and train walker coon hound.
Speaker 1:Is he there?
Speaker 2:with you right now he is. I can get him out, if that helps. Can I see him? Yes, let me do that. Let me get him out. He's probably face up against the crate.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, he's so cute.
Speaker 2:He kind of looks like a lab.
Speaker 1:Everybody says that and that's what we initially thought he was.
Speaker 2:So he's. Yeah, big boy, hi. Uh, so yeah he's, he's a cutie but yeah he's very cute.
Speaker 2:It's like mostly like um. I think like I remember when I got him from the shelter that I was like bully hound. I was like I don't see it. And then, um, then it wasn't until like I was like really looking at him that I could see more of like the bully features a little bit yeah, no, I mean, I definitely see that, but like, if I just saw him, I'd be like oh, he looks like a lab mix.
Speaker 1:That's what most people think. So what's like the, what's the biggest thing that we're working through with him?
Speaker 2:So, the biggest thing I would say is separation anxiety, which I know you don't love the label, but I don't know what else to like call it but like separation anxiety. And then the other thing would be like reactivity, like we've worked reactivity down a bit, but like you know. And then the other thing would be like reactivity, like we've worked reactivity down a bit, but, like you know, if I'm not, it's one of those things where, like if I'm not on 100% in that, then like you can tell, like you can tell the difference. So like if I'm not like 100%, like like in my surroundings of like I know every little thing that's about to happen, then then like that's where you'll see the reactivity, um, but if I am, then like I can work it a little bit. We do a lot of figure eight as well.
Speaker 2:Just because for him, like the nose loop, yes, so like I'll take I have the pack life LA leashes, so then I'll just, like you know, widen the loop and then wrap it around, yeah, around around the nose and like that's been fine. He took a minute, like he didn't. He doesn't love it, but excuse me, back, back, back, back back. Thank you, um, but he, um, he took a little bit, like it's not his favorite, but it is like the easiest for me at times, um so like, especially like when I get home, like the walk that I do after I get him out of the crate. Um, that one, I, I at least start it with the figure eight, because if I don't then he comes out like guns blazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, and then I also see that you've worked with a lot of different trainers. Yeah, okay. So let me ask me, ask and this is I'm not trying to be mean or anything why, uh, come to me okay.
Speaker 2:So the first trainer we ever did she was the one that was recommended here and um, like in Bloomington Indiana, and everybody said her because they felt like everything that he deals with he needs someone who's like positive only and like that's going to do it. And then I was working with her and I was like that's not going to do it, because it was just like it was just about medicating him which I'm not against, like I'm fully for medicating him just because of how much we've been through, like at this point we're working, we're working towards a new medication. So like I, so like I'm totally fine with that like that wasn't the biggest issue. But the biggest issue was like it would be like things that we were doing where it was like like he would lag on walks a lot and then she would just be like, okay, do like one, two, three treat, and I'm like, right, but he's so smart, so like he's gonna run up, get the treat and then lag again and then that was our whole walk. And then she was like, yeah, that's, that's fine. Or like he'd be super pully on walks and then she'd be like just like run a little and I'm like that's not okay, like that's not, like leash work was not a thing.
Speaker 2:Then we did and my thing with him was more like he was like super, just like I think his things just built more frustration, like it was all leash pop instead of like leash pressure, and like I was like I can't master a leash pop like this enough, where, like he's getting it, and then it was all like pet corrector.
Speaker 2:So then it's like he just became scared of a can, like that wasn't and he would still bark because now I'm just like adding to the frustration of the moment. So so that one was a no and and like we like I got him in a crate long term like and like least pressure. We've learned that way. But I think it was just. I think like your approach of just like. I think like you have to just like lean a little bit positive and like certain things where like I feel like I need that and then also like I think you have the understanding of like how frustrating it can be, because I feel like he went through a regression and now I'm like I'm like frustrated all the time, feel like he went through a regression and now I'm like I'm like frustrated all the time and like that's like, and I feel like that's just like a very real emotion to have to go through.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, what does have to say about the separation anxiety with you guys?
Speaker 2:that's been a lot of crate. Like that was just like a lot of crate. But like the point. Like now we're at the point where, like it's well, I feel like he lives in a crate at this point and I had a dog like growing up that lives in a crate because nobody knew what to do with him and I was like, yeah, I don't, I don't want him like practically living in a crate because like that's what it is, like I let him out because we're on the call, but otherwise he would have just been in the crate until, like you know, until whenever we went outside again, um, and it was like no furniture, which we did that for a while and like that's fine, like I don't need him in the bed all the time or anything like that. Like that's totally fine, I like my bed back.
Speaker 2:But anyway, because I had a queen bed and it felt like a twin. So like that's fine, but like, but, even like, in the last week or so I did let him up once or twice onto the couch. Oh, how dare you, I know right.
Speaker 2:No, because I was like I don't feel like that's doing anything and I think her thing was like he needs to learn to love the crate. But the thing is like if I leave him like this, where, like he's just tethered or like he's leashed or whatever, he will choose eventually to go in his crate on his own. You know he doesn't mind, like if, like if I put him in bed, like he doesn't mind sleeping in there.
Speaker 1:When are you having issues with him?
Speaker 2:So the thing is is like he'll go in his crate at any time, like he doesn't. The problem isn't like the, he's not like getting in the crate like oh no, no, no, like sometimes it happens. Like you know, when he had his regression I had to like go back to step one of like let's just get you in the crate and then learn to build the distance. But, like this morning's a great example, I got him in and then usually I would do like in and outs. But I had talked to her and she was like stop doing in and outs if he's laying down, because like she's, like he's laying down, but I'm like he's faking it, like I know my dog, he's like so faking, being calm because he knows what I want, um, so then he's like I can act it, but I'm not calm at all.
Speaker 2:So I let him lay down and then I like just left the crate door open but like I was close enough where if he tried to come out, like I can use my body and I like spatial pressure and then just kind of like chill and he just will not like fully relax, like he'll lay down but he won't fully relax, he'll just stare and stare and stare. So I end up having to do in and outs until I can get him with his head down where I can take off the leash and he doesn't like immediately like lift his head again. He'll never just like dart up, just like lift his head and just like stare me down of like I'm not relaxing in here, and then finally, eventually I can get him take it off, close the door. But once I leave it's just excessive barking. I come back. All his water's gone.
Speaker 1:He's drank it all and he'll bark the full five hours I'm in class, so, um, have you ever barked.
Speaker 2:We did do that. Did not work, did not work. We did what happened. So with so Barkar, I started it on walks because he used to bark at everyone and everything and I was like this doesn't work for me and I didn't know what else to do. So we did that and that originally worked where, like I got him conditioned of like every time it was was about to like I just didn't ring in sound because the shock is like insane on those things, like it does not. It's not like a working level for the one that I had. So then I just did like sound and ring and like every time it would ring then I would just say no barking. So eventually, after like two weeks of use anytime, I just went no barking, just immediately went quiet. I was like this thing's great, um, but if I left with the separation anxiety, I could put it on like any level of ringing and and you know and uh and buzzing, and it just he would just like completely blow right through it but you weren't.
Speaker 1:It wasn't stim, it was just the sound, yes, yes and vibrate. Okay, have you e-collar conditioned him?
Speaker 2:Yes, that we have done. If he which I've done that then like when I come home because anxiety is still high Cause then Samantha was like okay, well, at the very least let's do it when you come in, like leave him with the e-collar so when you come in we can work through that. But then she was watching him and she's like it's just pure anxiety, like it has nothing to do, it's not like a demand, it's not anything, it's pure anxiety. So I could go and I can bring him and you know I can, I can use the stim as much as I'd like and he's just gonna blow right through it. Like he'll go all the way up to like 40s, 50s, like he will blow right through it and that's not his level at all, you know.
Speaker 1:so well, one thing I don't. I dial up right yes, I.
Speaker 1:I think that, like I personally just from what you're telling me, I would correct for barking in the crate. I would rather have a one-time high level correction at the beginning to be like, hey, I know what's going to happen, I know that you're going to escalate, and the reason why I say bark collar is because it's automatic and it's going to be a lot more timely than you're going to be right. And so if the only thing that you're using the e-collar for, like in the house, is correcting him for, like, popping off in the crate, like if I had a dog that was barking in the crate non-stop when I left, I would bark collar them got it like that would be my solution, which sounds so silly.
Speaker 1:But like I love the bark collar for stuff like that because it like snap you out of that, then you're not going to escalate, you're not going to continue to bark, you're not going to continue to work yourself up, and so, like, that's why I like it. There are also some dogs where you put a bark collar on and they're just gonna keep barking and keep barking through it, but you haven't even tried the stim, you know? Um and then my next question to you is what happens if you don't create him when you leave?
Speaker 2:right, so we've done. So. We did do the stim on the bark collar outside and he had like a horrific reaction to it, like where he just like.
Speaker 1:What color are you using um?
Speaker 2:I don't remember it was. I got it off of Amazon, so it's probably not a good one, but like yes, the same, the same company that makes your e-collar.
Speaker 1:They make bark collars, so, okay, same type of stim. Um, and it goes off of vibration. I don't love. Uh, I wouldn't personally use it with like outside when we're on the walk, just because I want a little bit more control over like when I'm stimming my dog, just don't want it to go off like anytime they make a noise. You know, I want to be a little bit more selective, but for like anxiety in the crate, I like to nip it in the bud right away. Okay, so I would do that, like, let's say, his working level is at like an eight.
Speaker 1:I would do it at like start off at a 20, okay, yeah, hey, you gotta, you can't do this, you know and like for me, and sometimes, like anytime, I have people who are working through this, like people are in apartment complexes, like they literally cannot have their dog barking that much. Yeah, you know like your neighbors are going to call on you, so yeah when that happens, like bark caller yeah okay, so that's my, that's my like, easy yeah, like slap it on and let's see what it does yeah
Speaker 2:yeah, totally makes sense. Yeah, and then, if he's so, in terms of him not being created, so originally I used not create him. It was like a weird in between. So I read all his paperwork and all of his paperwork said that he was destructive, which is so true. Like he gets to the point of anxiety that he will destroy things. So I was like I got a really expensive couch and I'm in college and I'm not paying for a new one. So like we're not, we're not doing that, and then I have too tight of a space in the room to leave him and not get my things in there that I absolutely need destroyed as well.
Speaker 2:So instead we used to have it where, like he, we had put him in a crate.
Speaker 2:Obviously we didn't do like proper, like crate conditioning, so that was my fault, but not knowing Cause, every other dog it was just like that I have were like small dogs and we put him in a crate and eventually they learned and we were like, hey, that was not his story.
Speaker 2:So we put him in and then he just like immediately had the reaction that he does all the time. So I was like, right, that's a no. So we took the door off um of the side so that he could get in, and then we just tethered him pretty much and he was able to go in and out freely. He had about, I want to say, like 10 feet originally and then at that point he only had it where he just like panted and cried and was fine, but no big barking like it was maybe like once or twice a big bark, but he was pretty much chill outside of that. So he would present it anxiety, but it was never this like abrasive anxiety, uh. But then somebody left a package one day and then he tore my whole wall apart because he could still reach that.
Speaker 1:I have photos we're definitely, we're definitely going to keep him crated, then, yes, okay, and then my next thing is what is his outlet in terms of what, like? How do you fulfill him?
Speaker 2:Right, okay, so what we do, um, is it used to be two hours now. It's like the weather and like how badly they like clean the roads. It's like impossible to like not like I like I already fell and like busted my hand, so like we only do an hour instead of two hours, but we walk for about an hour. We've done things like flirt pole, kind of hard to do right now, but but we do. We do walk for about an hour. I try to leave some sniff time. We do. We do treadmill. So like today it was like it was like I don't know like two degrees, so so we did like 40 minutes outside and then about 10 minutes on the treadmill, or 45, 10 minutes on the treadmill, and then we did crate. So like that's his big thing. And then again, because like Samantha's idea was like the he doesn't, he has to get used to like the crate. So then like and I'm like, I'm looking at him and I'm like he just went in, like he's in there right now, like, like, like I had him here, he's all the way over there and it's great, like he's, it's not the crate at this point, like it's just this pure anxiety of like you're leaving me like it has nothing to even do with the crate and it doesn't matter if I tie him anywhere, like he's gonna do this. Yeah so, but he's been spending a lot of time in crate before.
Speaker 2:We used to do like um, especially with bad weather we would do like sniff mats were his big thing. I've tried to do like little, like sniff work around the like. I know like you can use bed of her and stuff like that, so I would hide like cotton balls with bed of her and have him go find it. That was a fun little activity for him. Um, but yeah, that's been most of his stuff. And then tug whenever we do play, it's always tug. Does he like to play tug? Yeah, he's really really good at it. He's got a great bite. So he's just like I know. So that?
Speaker 1:what, um? What do your walks look like? Are they like structured nose?
Speaker 2:loop um. So it would depend on like him, like if I'm feeling him like so out of tune with me, it's a lot of like. Then figure eight, where I'm like if I really can't, like I'm doing leash pressure and I know that you know leash pressure, but you're just like I'm everywhere and like everything's freaking me out, like when, like it snows, like it's so many smells, it's people in coats, it all freaks them out. Okay, figure eight, and then we're going to walk. Um, I try to release him for sniff work.
Speaker 2:We do like when I do like a big hour walk and I'm able to like actually get around. There's like a little park park and it's just like a dirt like little, like I don't know enclosed space, like it's nothing crazy. I'll let him in there and then we'll do e-collar in there, because then it's mostly just us um, and then that way, like sometimes we'll have it where like a dog passes by and then that's a great opportunity to work through something, because he's gated in but the other dog isn't, and then I have all that room to work with um. So we'll do like e-collar in there and just like, let him sniff. If squirrels are there, I let him do his thing like that's his time do you, uh do food rewards yeah, we do.
Speaker 2:Um, he has like the neutral treats. I also do like fish, I. I usually do like the neutral treats. It's like just like a base level, because like they're whatever and he's used to them. And then when I get in there because that's when like he might see a trigger or he might see a squirrel or we have to do recall, that's when I'll use his whole minnows as a treat in there, because then I'm like I know he's going to come back, I know he's going to come for this when he realizes and I know that he can smell that I have them. So then, but then the trouble becomes that then he doesn't want to leave because he's like I'm here and I'm just gonna stay here because that's what you're gonna want anyway yeah, well, that's what I was gonna kind of get at is, um, first I'll kind of tell you my like how I would train.
Speaker 1:but also keep in mind that, like you have been doing things one way and there's a million different ways to train your dog, so constantly switching is just gonna like add to even more confusion. You know, like how I train is not going to be how somebody else trains, so like there is value in sticking to one type of training, you know, or sticking with something. Um, I would hate to see you just kind of like hop around and then be like, oh, that didn't really work or that, you know, wasn't it for me, or whatever. I don't think like anybody has the secret sauce, like to be, quite honest with you.
Speaker 1:Like we're all just kind of like oh you know, this is the path of dog training that we've found. Um, I would do less long walks, okay and more tug okay. Um, more treadmill okay and like art collar in the crate, yeah I don't know I really like. I really like it for dogs that have anxiety, because it snaps them out of it before they work themselves up into a fit got it.
Speaker 2:So then, with the bar collar right, since, like I'm not home and it's like five hours of him wearing it and then you know him going through his phases, so like, in terms of that, like so I would start him on like a, like I have a Furbo camera. So then, like, let's say, like I start them at like a 15, 20, whatever it is, and then I see how that goes right, like I'll check the camera after, see if it worked, and then, like, slowly start raising from there right.
Speaker 1:Well, there's different settings for it, so it has like a bark counter on it too. I don't always do this, but I will put it on like rise, so like it finds the level that works for you okay. Okay, got it. Also, that can be problematic because it can just jack a dog up. I've that happens like every two out of 10 dogs, yeah, um, and then some dogs it's like, okay, I would rather have it at a working level so it doesn't jack them up. So that's kind of where I would start with.
Speaker 2:It is like just it on, like what's it, what's his working level, so his working level outside goes anywhere from like I would say um, like a five to like a 12 at times, um. Then if he's like really, really amped up, um, and like it's a big trigger, he can go up to like 30s, okay, and don't get too hung up on the level.
Speaker 1:Yeah, are you using a mini educator? Yeah, they're baby e-callers. So people get really hung up on the level of the caller. But I'm like, hey, if we were on a different collar like the number would be completely different you know, so especially like the breed, yeah, they're pretty tough, yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:So I don't want you to get too hung up on the levels or be like scared of dialing up when you need to Right, of dialing up when you need to, Um, but for example, like I would definitely start at like a probably a 12 for the bark collar inside.
Speaker 2:Okay, so when I leave, start him at the 12 and then see how that works, and then just like over time, like if I'm like he's just always blowing through it, then I can start like raising it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. Well, like, if what your other trainer is telling you like goes against that, I don't want you to just like switch things and then be like, ah, this didn't work and then like switch back to things you know. So, like, commit to using your e-collar as a correction. You know, because I don't know how you've been using your e-collar as a correction. You know, because I don't know how you've been using your e-collar. I don't know how you've conditioned your e-collar. Like I don't know any of that, so that might also be different right.
Speaker 2:So like, yeah, because with her, with the e-collar, we did it where it was like she was fine with me, like raising it on him because she was watching like videos of him and she was like he's so weird. Like she was like and I'm like, yes, like 100%, because you would think with like a dog with separation anxiety, that he would be so like on me all the time. But then if I'm doing like recall, he'll blow me off, like he just genuinely doesn't care, like he's like don't care about you well, I don't think it's necessarily separation anxiety.
Speaker 1:I'm sure it's more isolation.
Speaker 2:Because like that's the other thing with that, because then it was like if I do leave him, like the other day, like I had to leave him with somebody because there was a dog running around and I was like I'm gonna go find it, so like take him for a second, someone he knew, and he freaked out, you know. Or like my dad will stay with him and if I leave he'll be like, oh my god, you know, it's like he shows of like this, like where is she going? And I'm not with her type of thing. You know, if someone's with him and he can be free, then he's like okay, like I'll deal with it, but like for the first little while he's like why is she leaving? Like I don't understand and why don't I get to go? And when I come in it's a big scene. But I also have seen it like with him, like if he's in a car, for example, if the windows are up, he's panicked. If the windows are down, he's fine. You know, if his head is out a window, he's happy.
Speaker 1:You know if the windows are up, he's happy. You know, if the windows are up, he's like. I don't like this anymore, you know.
Speaker 2:And how old is he? Three. How old was he when you got him? Yeah, he's like one and a half, one and a half, somewhat like that. Yeah, yeah, he's assuming from what I've read on the documents, because with them you can never be like perfectly sure. Um, but yeah, he he's about, he's about three and he was around one and a half when I got him. So it's, it's been a journey.
Speaker 2:We've been doing that with eco. She was fine to go up on him like because she had said like I think she originally started where, like, she was like let's not go past like 10 or whatever, but then she had even had it where she was like her dogs, like like let's not go past like 10 or whatever, but then she had even had it where she was like her dogs, like her kind of course, so can go like all the way up to like 40s and 50s, and she was like, okay, so she's like, if that's where he goes, and that's where he goes, and we just find ways to work him down, because in the beginning he was so prey drivey, like that was my. That was the big purpose of using the e-collar originally, where it was like I couldn't get him to tune in on a walk or I couldn't get him to recall at all because his nose was just like to a ground all the time and like he could understand leash pressure but he was so willing to blow it off. But if I put the collar over time I could like get like the hand on the shoulder type of thing of like hey, like I'm here, and then those paired together he could like, oh yeah, like oopsies. But otherwise, like he will, like I've had it where, like if I let him lead me on a walk which I haven't done in a while but if I let him lead me on a walk, like I'll find out, like that he, he'll, he'll be tracking something.
Speaker 2:Like one time I was walking him and then I'm like we even like what's even going on right now, and then all of a sudden, like a bunny jumps out of a bush. I was like that was it. Like he was tracking that the whole time. So he's so much like that where it's harder to get him to tune in. So we were using it a lot for that and a lot for recall.
Speaker 2:And then she did want to do it, like we did do it for Crate and like his anxiety in there, because when I come home, home, he doesn't just like chill out, like mom's home, we're all good, it's like get me out of here now, um. So we tried it with that and she was watching me like go up and go up and go up and try, and then like I, then I was trying to pair it with like vibration and stim and like all of it together. It was just like he just like didn't care, like it was like we were going 40, 50 and I'm like wow, like he's just not, he's like I mean, he's just not doing okay your dog needs a job yeah you need to fulfill him.
Speaker 1:I think these long, ass boring walks are not fulfilling. They're not doing it. I really it's really hard to be anxious when you've had a really hard workout.
Speaker 2:Yeah that's so true. So do you think?
Speaker 1:like let's say, like a 30-minute walk or whatever it is, and then, like I think that's still a lot. Okay, listen, there's like there's two camps of training. There's like the I feel like it's the Cesar Mill camp. And then there's like the sporty people. Yes, I think you need to do sporty stuff with him. Yeah, I think it would make your life more enjoyable. Like think about your dog's life. Like it's so structured.
Speaker 1:Your dog is never allowed on the furniture. They're never allowed in bed with you. They have to be in the crate like all day long. When they're on the walk, they have this fucking thing wrapped around their nose. They have to follow you like his. That sucks. Like that sucks. Yeah, that is like not fun. I would also be an anxious mess, you know. Yeah, like I don't know.
Speaker 1:I like I understand that side of things. I do, I totally do. But I I think that there's so much value in like giving our dogs an outlet and like letting them bark, like giving like, yeah, let's bark, let's play tug. Like let's roughhouse, I'm gonna push you around, and this is gonna be so much fun. We can mix our obedience into that to get him thinking and using his brain. Um, we can utilize the treadmill like I love the treadmill and then whenever we're done and you're fulfilled and you're tired, you're gonna go pass out in the crate and it's gonna help work through that, whereas, like right now, I feel like he's a prisoner of like me too. It's so structured, like that's crazy. Like when I was reading your thing and you're like two hour long walks, I was like, oh my gosh, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:That's like that's a lot you know there's no reason that you need to be going on two hour long walks like, especially with the breed yeah, yeah, besides, like I think, like I think because here's the thing, because you're saying it and I'm like I've been thinking this, but then I didn't want to say it because I thought I was wrong, because, like, I genuinely thought I was wrong, because everybody's like you need to walk that dog and you need to like walk him and walk him, walk him until he gets tired. And I'm like, right, like I always think there was like this video it's not gonna tire him. It's not gonna tire him. Like that's the thing.
Speaker 2:I remember, like just a few weeks ago I saw this video these two guys they got like a dog that's so similar in breed to him out from a shelter and they run dogs, like that's what they do, and they were running her and they were like I don't think she's ever gonna be tired. And I was like it's literally him, like it looks like him, it acts like him, it's him, he will never get tired. And then I can feel him, like we can do like an hour, two hour walk, and then if I take out that tug toy and I say fun, he's gonna come at me with such a force.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, no, but I love that. Like that, that's what we want. We can harness that drive into productive things, right you?
Speaker 1:know, like if your dog is telling you that, like he gets fucking pumped up whenever you take that tug. Like we're gonna do that. We're gonna do a 15 minute bite work play session that's to wear him out way more than an hour. Structured, fucking, like muzzled I, I, just I, personally I do not like the nose loops. I have recommended them for people, but it's more so for the sake of owners. Like, just like you said, said you're like sometimes I have to nose loop him because it makes our life easier, right, like it's the only way that.
Speaker 1:I can like that's definitely when I recommend it, but for the most part I think it is so uncomfy for the dogs to have and like that's the only reason why they're walking well is because they're just like this is the worst, you know, and it's like if that's how you're fulfilling him, like no wonder why he's like finding an outlet and like barking in the crate. You know, if it weren't the crate, it would be something else. It's not the crate, it's not doing that. It's just like he needs an outlet. Like give him an outlet to like be crazy and like do fun stuff with him and then be done. And then put him away and we chill and I take you out and we do crazy things again and then we're done.
Speaker 2:You know very structured in that way. So in that sense. So then, like if it's like a morning, right, and like I'm going to school, I'm going to leave him for five hours, like so then in that sense. So then, like, if it's like a morning right, and like I'm going to, school.
Speaker 1:I'm going to leave him for five hours, like so then, in that sense, like, what does that look like then? So I personally would like where does he sleep?
Speaker 2:in the crate yeah, his life is in that crate yeah, I'm also.
Speaker 1:I'm not like anti-f, anything like that. Okay, because I don't think it has that big of an influence, unless he was biting you or aggressive or resource guarding. If that was the case, then I'll be like fuck that you need to get him out of your bed. But it doesn't matter and like it seems like he's not the most confident, like I don't think him being in the bed is going to do anything for you. So let me show you I'm going to go ahead and take out my Mal and I'll kind of show you like what a session would look like. Yeah, I just think it's going to be way more fun for you guys. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I think he's just like bored and and like sitting with all this energy in him yeah, go, go like work out.
Speaker 1:It's really hard. And it's hard to like sit and be anxious afterwards. You're like, oh shit, yes, okay. So this is my tug for her whenever we're first starting out, like teaching our dogs, like the game of play, we want to have something that's like really soft. I personally like something like this because it has a handle on the inside, so I'm not gonna get like a tooth in my hand, you know, um, and then we'll always start our session off with some sort of cue. So for me it's are you ready? And I'm going to start my session with her barking. So I want her to give me something in the beginning of the session that's like yeah, yeah, yeah, I get jacked up and then I'm going to run her into obedience commands just to get her using her brain a little bit. So, yes, marks her doing the behavior correctly. Good job, minka, out.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, good job.
Speaker 1:Minka. So, yes, marks her doing the behavior correctly. She gets to jump up at me, get the tug. I'm going to play tug with her. This is the rewarding part of it. That's right, kid Out. Yes, playing with you. So make sure that, like you're actually playing, like here, yeah, good job. Good job, good Out, pushing so you can see I'm able to integrate like play obedience. Yeah, play obedience. So we're practicing our marker words, our timing. Yeah, just doing something fun that's engaging with you, that gives him an outlet to like get some of that like frustration and barking and like over excitement.
Speaker 1:Yes, so a session like this for me would be like five to 10 minutes long. Okay, I'm just going to run through everything really quickly. Um, either use a tug or a food reward so I have like freeze dried raw that I'll use. I'm going to put Alicia before I get in trouble for being off-leash, but I'm trying to build up her confidence, so I want her to be a little bit crazy. I'm not going to correct her for jumping up on me. Like I'm going to smack her around a little bit. I'll kind of like punch her and you know, like play fight with her, yes, and then I'll prance her around a little bit, let her possess it. Yay, good job. Minkies, yeah, good job. So five minutes you can literally run him through whatever it is that he knows.
Speaker 2:Got it For him, like he has done, like we do it like with Tug tug where, like I'll use it a lot for like impulse control for him, because I feel like that's his like hardest thing. Um, so then, like we've been doing that of like I use enough but like I could use out, because then, like I use enough for a lot of things. So like that that could like help with like the consistency of like having a separate word where like he can come back to it. Yeah, um, we've been doing like I'll do like tug, I'll say enough, and then he'll come to like stop, and then I'll do like okay, go please, and then like come, and then we'll do like all our thing and like fun again and like then that will be like kind of how we do it okay.
Speaker 1:So I want you to teach um, we'll teach a. Done so is gonna be let go of the toy or tug or whatever it is, but you'll teach it with a re-grip, okay, um, y-e-s is cute to get the tug right, yes. So then I'll say done, yes. So the reward for her outing gets the tug again. Got it, yes. So you've put a lot of control. Oh, good job. And I want her to be possessive, right, she doesn't want to give it up right now. So I'm like, oh, good job, girl, good job, yeah, right, she doesn't want to give it up right now. So I'm like, oh, good job, girl, good job, yeah, um, you've put a lot of control on your tug. So we want to kind of take all of that control away. Oh, got it, and the reward is the regrip and I'm going to play with you again because everything is out.
Speaker 1:Okay, now do the command. It's just like another thing that you're just like putting on so much control. You know. So new word we'll do done. We'll play tug, play tug, play tug. Done, yes, play tug, we'll play tug, play tug, play tug. Done, yes, play tug, play tug, play tug. That way he's not like oh, I don't want to let go of this, because then the game is done and I have to go to play, so we have to do other things. Yes, 100%.
Speaker 1:And then, whenever you're playing this game, another thing that you can do is you can actually put him on a harness and back, tie him, tie him to something in your house that's really sturdy or like a tree, and kind of tease him with the tug. Yeah, back and forth. That pulling on the harness is going to fulfill that like biological need to want to pull and put pressure on a harness. Yes, then we're also building up frustration and motivation to get this tug got it. I'm kind of like teasing him with it, right, and then I'll walk up yes, let him get it. And then I'll play with him from there. Done, take a step back. He's gonna hit the end of that harness and be like hey, hey, I want to play that tug, okay, okay, we could even go down. He goes into it down, I'll walk my tug up in position, yes, and I'll reward in position and play there, got it.
Speaker 1:So you're just doing something fun with him, yeah, you're doing something that's like hey, this is no rules. Like, pretty much the only rule is don't bite me. Yeah, right. So, with that being said, I don't want you to use no, okay. So if he doesn't like, let's say you throw obedience in there. Let's say he doesn't do the obedience, he's not super clear on like the down guidance. Guide him into a down, grab some food, lure him down, you know got it.
Speaker 2:So in that case also. So like in this activity, like he's jumping, he's barking, like all that, like we're not correcting that in this moment love it.
Speaker 1:This is, this is your time. This is your time to be crazy and get that out of your system and be a dog. And I'm not gonna correct you, I'm gonna encourage you. And what's gonna happen? Because you've put so much control on him, you're gonna going to put him on a harness and you're going to back, tie him and he's going to hit that harness and he's going to go. I'm sorry, yes, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, and you're going to know come on, come on, come on, come on. And he's going to be like am I playing that tug? Yes, we're gonna reward and play, play, play, play, play, got it. So anytime I get a new dog, that we're working on this stuff they're so polite, right? Yeah, get it, because, as dog trainers, like we're working through behavioral issues with dogs, but like there's something to be said for giving them an outlet yeah absolutely like, absolutely Like our dogs are, have become like prisoners because we put so much structure on them, and I just don't think that that's fair.
Speaker 1:So, like that game, that five to 10 minute session is like I want you to be crazy, like I want you barking, I want you, you know, like jumping up to get this tug and I'm gonna let you get it. And then when I say all done, and the session is done, we go back to pet life and get rid of it. We go back to being chill.
Speaker 2:I would say like don't be so strict on him in other aspects as well, like he's just a dog, you know so then in that case, so like in terms of like walks and stuff like that, since, like, we do have like the reactivity and like wanting to work through that outside and stuff like so, how much of that is he getting outside of like structured or like sniff walks, like how much?
Speaker 1:how often is he reactive?
Speaker 2:well, it depends on the situation, like we can go. I think like now it's less like it used to be, like every single walk, every little thing, but I also I mean hold on, it depends on, like the reactivity right. Hold on, it depends on the reactivity Cause. If we're talking like big reaction, not as much like today, it happened because I was, I did the worst thing because I've been dealing with his vet and she's been driving me crazy. So I had to end up like getting on my phone really fast and I didn't see a person approach him and totally just like didn't see it happen. So this person went up to him and Kobe is.
Speaker 2:That's where, like, I saw a video of yours and I was like, oh my God, I've been approaching this whole thing wrong because, like, cause I always thought his thing came from, like this fear and like this protection which, like sometimes it can be that, but, um, like the protective, not the fear, he's not scared, that's not what it is, but he is, like it's very forward and like a frustration. So, like this person came up to him and he's like, yeah, I don't want you in my space. Like get out, and like he jumps. You know, same thing. If, like, I see a dog, like I'm going forward, you know, like I want to get to it, maybe I want to play it, maybe I just don't like it. Like, whatever the situation is, I want to just have big feelings, yes, big feelings, and I'm going for it, um, and then he'll, then he'll back up, like it'll be like a forward and a back, like he'll dance a bit.
Speaker 2:He's um, and he does the same thing, like when I had him tethered, that was his dance and he does it in his crate, like if I show a video, it'll be him in his crate, like if I show a video, it'll be him in his crate of like this forward, back, forward, back, forward, back, and that's what he does when he reacts. So big reactions like that happen today, doesn't happen every day. It might be like an every other day, a couple of times a week, like nothing crazy, but the like seeing something and like getting excited and then me having to be like, oh, let's go, let's go, and like trying to do something fun, or like trying to redirect, or me pulling up on the figure eight if that's what we're doing, um, and just using that pressure of like leave it and then like practicing that, then there's a lot of that throughout a walk. That's pretty much like a constant every day. Yeah, like he sees things and it's very much of like all the time.
Speaker 1:I'm so curious. Do you have a yard? No, I'm in a apartment. Do you have like a park nearby?
Speaker 2:We don't have one like super nearby. But actually that's what's so interesting. If I take him to a park, totally different, totally different, like he doesn't do that as much, like he's curious, but he's not like, oh my God, it's mostly I think it's within this area of like I know those people or I know those dogs or I know those things, and now I'm like very like, like it's like this thing, he has to, like the neighborhood. If I take him somewhere, it's like he's like none the wiser of who's around him. You know, aside from the only situation we ever had was like I took him to a park, he was figure eight, but long line. The figure eight was just because I felt like I would need the control if something did happen and that he would just be like crazy. But like I took him, we saw these like little, like goats. He was happy, he didn't even bark at the goats. I thought he was going to go crazy. He didn't.
Speaker 2:But there was a dog that was also on figure eight, running with their person and their person didn't really have quite a hold on them. So they kept trying to come around. They passed us like three times and kept trying to come around to get to kobe. I think kobe's perception of it was that the dog was trying to get to me. So then my dad watched from behind as, like I had him on figure eight and I had him close at this point because I saw the dog and the dog's like coming up and I guess the dog went behind and was so close now because it was such a narrow road that Kobe just went right behind and like snap, and then I was like uh-uh, and he came right back, but it was a like out of my space type of thing. So it was like that's where that happened of like this dog's staring me down, it keeps doing this, it keeps approaching us Back off, I'm done, you know, and then he snaps out of it really fast.
Speaker 1:So you do not have a very confident dog. I would play. Play this game, play this game of tug. I personally would not go for long walks around your neighborhood. I would go out to go potty and go back inside and then drive to a park and play the game. So the whole point of the game is that no matter where I take minka, I can pull her out and I can go you ready and she's gonna go and then we can play the game. It doesn't matter who is around us. We're outside of a dog park, there's baseball games going on right now. It doesn't matter what. I've conditioned you. That, like when I say are you ready? This is what we're doing. And when you build it up in your home first and then take it to other places, we're basically just like proofing our training and our dogs to understand that, no matter what is going on in the world around us, like this is the game that you and I play and it's a great time.
Speaker 2:We always have a great time you know, in that case, would it be something like like we would start it in the home for a little while, let the weather warm up so he can have more fun outside, and then like, so start it in the home. Then maybe do it like in the bark park, where it's enclosed and he's used to seeing a lot of dogs and that's where big reactions usually happen sometimes. Start it there and then, if you take it to like a very open space, we're now like building up, like how the space looks, like how enclosed it is and how enclosed it's not exactly so.
Speaker 1:the reason why I am like kind of pushing you towards sporty training is because, like it's great for building up dogs confidence, it's great in teaching you how to be a better handler, and also of French ring is that like they'll literally put like hot dogs on the ground and they have people run by with like clatter sticks and like I think Oscar, my trainer, was telling me that they had a person on like a zip line, like zip line above the dogs Like it's absolutely insane. But the whole point of that is like it's very functional when it comes to our pets too, because, like crazy shit is gonna happen in the world. Somebody's gonna drop a leash and their dog's gonna rush over. If I practice this game with my dog so many times, they're not even gonna acknowledge that there's another dog rushing over there because, like they're so focused on like yeah, this is the game, this is the game that I play with mom. We're doing that right now. So, like when we're training for these sports, you see like people rattling like cans and you know you have big jugs with like coins in them and the whole point, like is to make sure that the dogs are still focused on their training, no matter what is going on around us.
Speaker 1:So that's what we're going to kind of replicate with you is like first, let's build up your handling, your skills, your ability to play. Yes, take some of that control away. Because what's going to happen is he's going to be he. He's going to be too polite. He's going to be like am I allowed to? Because not allowed to do anything, he's literally not allowed to do anything.
Speaker 1:So when we first try to play with him, he's going to be like uh, okay, am I allowed to put harness? Am I allowed to bite this tug? Am I allowed to do these things? And it's going to take a bit to build up. But once we have a dog that, like, we can take out and they're like, yeah, let's fucking go, like it doesn't matter what is going on in the environment, they're going to want to play that game with you. And not only are we going to proof our training in new environments, but we're building up your dog's confidence. We're building up your handling skills, your timing, your marker words, like all the things that are going to add clarity to, like, your relationship, and then that's going to decrease anxiety.
Speaker 2:Got it. And then so like let's say, like we're on a walk and it's like let's say we just do like 10 minutes so he can relieve himself and we're good. And like let's say on that walk, like, and it's like let's say we just do like 10 minutes so he can relieve himself and we're good, and like let's say on that walk, like maybe there's, like you know, somebody wearing a coat and that pisses him off that day, or like this thing. So what does that look like? Instead of leaving him, which I will say like, just like following you in, like the last like three days or whatever it's been that I immediately that I was like why am I doing so much, figure eight on this walk? So like he's already been like stepping out of that a bit, where, like I'll start it just to like calm him down and like get him in with me and then I'll take it off.
Speaker 1:I'm like, okay, let's have fun. And then he's had more freedom that way and I noticed that he does tune in, like it's not, like he can't, like he does it and I can be like leave it and, like you know, get excited and like then he's with me. But if I'm just, like you know, leave it and like pulling up on a thing, he's like this doesn't make sense. It's like I can't look anywhere, you know, and like that's where his frustration is. So then, if he's seeing like a person he really wants to go to, or whatever it is ever thought you knew about, Do you have a flexi lead by chance?
Speaker 2:I don't, I don't.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what? The beginning of kind of working through that would look like.
Speaker 2:Let me figure out where I can set up we do have like the 15 foot, like long lines and stuff. We have those things, but not a flexi okay, I'm gonna pull out my problem child.
Speaker 1:She's actually been very good. You're not a problem child anymore. I won't say that, um, so this is something that you can start. I would say, start like inside. You've probably done a little bit of this before. I'm gonna move you down in a second. Let me just pull her out real quick, okay. So I want you to always have food on you or always have a tug on you whenever you're going out. We're going to start conditioning our marker word yes. Okay, I know that you said that you were doing yes before, but I just want to make sure that we're using it correctly and that we're going to be really consistent in what that means to the dog. Let me know if you need me to adjust or you can't hear me or anything, okay, okay. So yes means reward on me. It could either be a tug or it could be food.
Speaker 1:Mink is like x reactive, like she's doing pretty good right now. We got dogs, we got stuff going on. She's like perfect 100 at the time. But this is how we'll work through it. So I'm basically gonna give my dogs kind of free reign to go potty. I'm not gonna put a lot of structure on them. Okay, whenever I need to call her back, I'm gonna say mink, she's eating cigarette bugs. Yes, whenever she looks at me, I'm gonna mark it with a yes, hey, hey, hey, good job, think, yes. So when she starts to load up on another dog, yeah, I can use a little bit of leash pressure and my marker word yes to bring her attention back to me.
Speaker 1:And because yes means you're about to get paid on me, she's going to be like oh, and come back to me. So I'll just kind of walk around a little bit, yes, but add some movement, add some like not just paying once it's pay, pay, pay, pay a lot of times, so that he wants to keep coming back to you. You got it. No structure here, right ahead. Look at that dog. Yeah, call your name, come back, pay, pay, pay, pay, pay, pay, pay, got it. So if she's going to drag me, so if you've built up a super strong, yes, right, if you've built up a super strong, yes, then the dog's going to come rushing back to you. Super strong, yes, then the dog's gonna come rushing back to you when we haven't built it up. They're just gonna sit there and like load up and load up and load up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you just know that it's something that you need to work on, you know, right, but I could also do it with a tug with her for him. If the tug is more rewarding than food out in public or outside, then use your tug. Same sort of thing yes, come back to me and get paid. Yes, good job. Yeah, and I'll just kind of let her have it. If she lets go of it, I'll walk over, grab it again and use it when I need to. Right, she loves having something in her mouth, so she sees another dog. She's like I want to murder you. But if I say yes, she's like, oh, and she'll come back to me and latch on to that and be like ah, yeah, like, hey, those feelings on the toy, on the tug so if I'm dealing with him, like sometimes he has moments where, like tug isn't the most interesting thing to him.
Speaker 2:If, like that's happening, where like I'm trying to do and like that's not what's intriguing him, can I just switch to like the food motivation, because he's always food motivated yes, a thousand percent. Hey, let's not eat the cigarettes so then, like so the morning in that sense would look like, let's say like 10 minutes outside or whatever it is, and then like would it be like you're like 15 minutes of tug and then like treadmill?
Speaker 1:Yeah, do you have a dog pacer? Yeah, put it on interval. Okay, yeah, I love the interval and I will let the dogs run for literally like so long. 40 minutes, okay, yeah, like a long time. Another thing that I was also thinking of that I forgot to mention to you is is, um, sometimes, when I have dogs who would not settle and are just like they basically get fell. Well, anytime they're in the crate, I'll take them out and I put them on the treadmill. Okay, you want to. You want to come out? Okay, I'll work. You, we're gonna keep doing that until the dog's like I don't want to come out anymore and I'm like okay, okay.
Speaker 2:so then do I always follow, like the, for example, like you know, I know, like when samantha, when I was like training him onto the treadmill, which we've been doing for like a few weeks now, and he's fine, um, sometimes, like if we him, I do it just the numbers, so let's say he's running at a three or whatever and he's just getting his jog in. If he has a lot of anxiety, then he's panting and everything on there, but it's an anxiety pant, so I'll lower and bring him back down and then build him back up, type of of thing. Like kind of do it that way, just watching his reaction, and then what, uh?
Speaker 1:what speed is he running at?
Speaker 2:usually if I haven't gone higher than three.
Speaker 1:I don't know like it's totally up to you, but if that were my dog and I were like training him I I find that they get more anxious at lower speeds again. It's hard to be anxious when you're you're running like. That's so true. I like to give somewhere for that anxious energy to go. Like I do not like to do duration place. I do not like to like force dogs to settle in that way Right Like I I don't do long slow treadmill sessions unless I have a dog. That's like I really want to teach to slow down. But like it sounds to me like he's not super confident with anything.
Speaker 2:No, he's not super confident with anything. No, he's not. So then do I follow, like the treadmill, like let's say we do our 10 minutes and then our 15 minutes of tug or however long I can like keep him into it, and then treadmill, like let's say, 30 minutes, whatever it is, and then do I take him out again, before then putting him in crate or like should that be right in crate after that um, it depends.
Speaker 1:Sometimes the dogs have to go potty after they treadmill. Okay, it like gets things moving, you know. So I would maybe take him out one more time to go potty and then put him in the crate. But also, like, don't do the same thing every single day, because then if he hates the crate, or like think, if he is associating crate with, like you, going to class, then he's gonna hate going outside because that cues him going into the crate, which cues you leaving for class.
Speaker 2:So, like your, your day should always be different, you know, yeah, so I don't want to follow the same thing, like keep him guessing like you never know, then could it be like some days I start on treadmill and then follow it to, like just so. I don't want to follow the same thing, like keep them guessing, like you never know. Could it be like some days I start on treadmill and then follow it to, like just completely?
Speaker 1:like it doesn't always have to be this perfect consistency. Yeah, if you have a goal for the day where you're like, oh, I really want to work on, like my done Right, then, like I'm always going to do that training session first because I want the dog like high energy focused on me, yes, um, but like, all in all, it doesn't make that big of a difference, you know can I work something with you of like what this looks like for him, of like that's, let's see, I don't know if you can see him at all, let's see, let's see if we can get it there, we go right.
Speaker 2:So like that's him in crate. So if I'm putting him like in crate right, I think what I struggle with is like what does that always like look like? Or what do I look for so that I can close the door right? I mean like I would assume this, I can close the door right. But if I'm like wait, but let's go, am I meant to keep doing like let's go, great am I.
Speaker 1:Do you use food to go into the crate? No, I would use. I would toss a handful of food or treats the minnow treats every single time he goes into the crate. Okay, every single time.
Speaker 2:I still reward my dogs for going into the crate and then, in that case, so then is he like is it like while he's eating, I close it? Or is it like, once he like weighs down, like I would just close it I would like I would make it a non-event.
Speaker 1:You know like this is just part of our routine. You know, I'm just gonna like toss your food in.
Speaker 2:You go into the crate, I close the door and then if he's like the crying, like you know, like if he starts like crying or whining or like whatever, do I ignore that, leave that be like, do I go and like take him out and let's do this again, like how does that?
Speaker 1:look, don't take him out, I would let him be. Okay, I would let him be, unless it, unless you're like walking around your house and he's like, I would correct that okay. So then that would be like with the collar yeah with the e-collar, but if it's like, if he's just like, I don't care about that, I'm not gonna correct that. But if you're like demand, barking at me, like losing your mind, like no, you are not allowed to do this, like I'm gonna correct you for that, you know.
Speaker 2:And then the other thing I had was so with the tug I don't have a good one, I have like the rough wear, um, I don't, but that's good, that's a Kobe, it's fine. So build up like that, like he can bark and everything, because obviously now he's so polite that every time he barks he knows like he's gonna get in trouble. So how does that? How do we build that?
Speaker 1:drive. Yes. So the barking starts with frustration whenever you do practice this. I would practice it on a rug, because I don't want him to like slip, and then he's gonna be like oh, I don't like this game, right, um, so some sort of like holding him back and like really like amping him up. So when I was doing it with Minka, did you see? I like tossed it over my shoulder so she couldn't see, and then I was like eyeing her, like this, I was like, yeah, like you wanna go. And she's like yeah, yeah, yeah, so something like that. Or you could even like hold his collar back and like try to get it, try to get it, try to get it, try to get it. And like get it, try to get it, try to get it, try to get it. And like, when he barks, yes, good job, even if it's like a little baby bark, even if it's just like oh, yeah, we're gonna reward and throw a party, understood?
Speaker 1:so then it was just like, yeah, and minka was like this too. Like it took me a while for me to build her up, like she was very polite and it was just because she grew up in like a pet dog trainer house, you know. So she's like I don't want to get in trouble. Like I see you, you know up like she was very polite and it was just because she grew up in like a pet dog trainer house, you know. So she's like I don't want to get in trouble. Like I see you, you know, like, trade all these dogs all day long. I don't want to get in trouble.
Speaker 1:And so, like, in teaching her to bark, it just builds it. It just would build up her confidence in like, hey, now's your time. Like you're a Malinois, be a a Malinois, you know. And so now she's confident of, okay, when I, you know, do this, and say, are you ready, she's like, yeah, I can bark, got it, start your cue whenever you take him out, are you ready? And you can also do a little bit of like chasing with the tug. Like chase, chase, chase. Then tug, tug, tug, tug, tug. Build up that frustration to get it.
Speaker 2:And then his like he plays like we always say it's inappropriate or like it's wrong, but like he always tries to get your hand off of it so that he can get it type of thing, you know. So he's kind of like like he's's gonna get as close to my hand like push me, is that fine?
Speaker 1:I'm fine with that. Okay, yeah, also. Do you see how he like he'll play with it and then he lets go of it?
Speaker 2:yeah.
Speaker 1:I would like uh, you kind of want to like pop it in his mouth. So he's like, oh, I got to hold on to it so that it like stays alive. And then, if he lets go of it well, you lost it. I'm going to tease you with it. Tease you with it so that the next time he gets it he's like oh my gosh, I want to hold on to this because she teases me with it, teases me with it.
Speaker 2:Got it.
Speaker 1:So if you, if you had a harness for him, you could like tie him back and like play with the tug in front of him and help him to put pressure on, just like your regular slip lead, you know.
Speaker 2:Got it and then I can also like the back, like you would use the back for that. Yes, got it.
Speaker 1:And then like, could I?
Speaker 2:also do it when he's on, like when we're playing, like put the harness on and then, like I pull him as well, like, mix it up.
Speaker 1:Um.
Speaker 2:What do you mean Of like pulling him backwards type of thing?
Speaker 1:of like building the frustration. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, you can like grab the harness and hold him back. Um, that's why people get really big flat collars for their dogs is because it like encourages them to like pull on it so that, like, for example, for minkas, like minkas collar is like big so I can grab her collar and like get her amped up and hold her back on a flat collar without ruining our like slip lead stuff you know, right, okay, yeah so just don't do it on a slip lead, do it with anything but.
Speaker 1:And then eventually it becomes a cue of oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:It becomes a cue of like okay, we're gonna play the game now okay understood so then and then, whenever you're done, we're gonna mark it with all done and we're gonna put the tug away. Okay, so the tug only comes out when you're playing with me. If you check out, I'm putting it up and we're gonna wait until next time. But you want to end the game when he's still like engaged with you and, oh, we're gonna end it, I'm gonna put it up. So the next time you take it out, he's like yeah, like it's out again and it's gonna be like fun, like don't let him decide when to end the session, basically.
Speaker 2:So then do I ever let him like kind of like he did, like take it for a second, then come take it back and like keep doing it and then like let him put a place with it. Let him like not a little bit, and then like let's do this again. Like that type of thing.
Speaker 1:Let him, like, prance around with it. Okay, he brings it back to you. That's what we want. Play tug with him again. Yes, now, if he goes to go chew on it, no, I'm gonna snatch it from you. Okay, play tug with me again, you know?
Speaker 2:okay, take it and go and chew on it, but you can prance it around and then bring it back to me to play with you, right and then, in this case, this is like he and he really does have what I think is a great for a dog like, yeah, good job, you know.
Speaker 2:So then, um, in terms of like phasing in other things, since he's had so much structure, and now like phasing him into maybe the world of like you don't need to be like that all the time.
Speaker 2:How does that that work of like cause it is like, like you said, I don't want it to be like one second we're doing one thing and then the next second we're doing the other. He's had like uber structures since September and then like off of like maybe I add in like a bed in the in the house that he can run to, and then her being like no, take away a bed, and then I'm like okay, so it's been a bit of like both, um, and then like him like he worked with like that original trainer, like three months, a little bit longer, and then like the other one, I tried it for like a week and I was already like he's doing horrible, like this is making him fearful. Um, but in terms of that like, how do we face like him being on the furniture, like like the other day I let him do it and like he starts where, like before, I could be like up and like he would get up. Now it's like.
Speaker 1:I don't know. This is like a first step to getting on the furniture. Yeah, yeah, it's more so of like you and what do you want to commit to? Yeah, like, obviously I'm gonna sit here and be like I think that this is what you should do to your dog with your dog, yeah, but like it's up to you, you know. So, like if he were my dog and this is what I decided to do, I would just kind of like relax with the structure. I don't think that anything is going to actually change if you let him on the furniture.
Speaker 2:Right, so it doesn't have to be this thing of like do I phase it in, like every other day he can do it, it's just like, it's just whenever, like if he gets up, he gets up, type of thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just like, if you want him on the couch, like you can invite him on the couch.
Speaker 2:Right so, but we still keep it like. Let's say, like I know, like I have family dogs that come like not mine, they're my parents and they're small. And he has like one that he's like, so in on like I don't know, I think he thinks she's a squirrel, I don't know. And then the other one that, like she's really aggressive and they're furniture dogs, so she'll get on the furniture and stuff like then she'll kind of like she's a resource garter. They'll never listen if, like, I don't want her on the. So how, so how do I work that of like you know he can be off the furniture of like you know? So I always keep it that like I can stay off and like he will come make it.
Speaker 1:make it permission based, so like my dogs can do whatever they want so long as I can ask them to stop or do the opposite, right? So if there comes a day where you're on the furniture and I tell you to get down and you don't get down, you will not be allowed on the furniture anymore. You know, because, like, I don't have that level of control over you. If I let you off leash and you don't come back to me, I'm not going to let you off leash anymore. Like you tell me what level of freedom you can handle, you know. So I would just make it either permission based or make it so that, like, hey, if I ask you to get down, you get down after the first time. If you start growling at me, if you start like not wanting to listen, then you're going to lose the privilege of the furniture right.
Speaker 2:So like for him, it's like he'll fall asleep and then he'll just kind of be like slow to it, like if I, if I just lift the leash even a little, he's like I'm getting off, I'm getting off, but if it's just like, okay, put me off, he's like, uh, like I'm thinking about it, but like he's gonna do it, he just takes his time. Is that funny? That's fine, okay, and do I leave him like leashed in the house then just to like always keep the consistency of like we can follow through, of like working that, or do I just let it do.
Speaker 1:You think that you wouldn't be able to get him down without the leash?
Speaker 2:um, I feel like I would. I think it just maybe makes it easier, like at times, just because I think then there's like so much confusion surrounding it right now that I think Use your leash for sure.
Speaker 1:So just think your leash is always there for directional guidance. If you need directional guidance in any moment, use the leash, you know. So if it's helpful to have the leash on in the house, then yeah, for sure. I'm like I don't know, I'm very casual with my dogs, like they almost never have leashes on, but I know that if I'm like, hey, get down, and I, like you know, shove them down off the couch, they'll be like, okay, okay, you know they're going to get down.
Speaker 1:But like if I had a training dog that like maybe we didn't have that established relationship and like that dog wasn't listening to me, then I would use a leash because I need that extra directional guidance in that moment.
Speaker 2:You know, got it. And when he comes out of the crate, if he does that bark at me, which is mostly like it's not a demand, I don't feel. I feel like it's an anxiety thing. Um, do I like step into him, do I keep doing that? Or like, how would you handle that If, like, you take him out of the crate and he's like like at you? Do you have a video of that, of that? Let me see?
Speaker 1:yeah, here can you thank you? So can you do that every time?
Speaker 2:yes, yes, um, when I come home it's not every time he comes out of a crate was he just like excited, um, I think it's like.
Speaker 2:It's like so he'll come out and like he's like, you know, panting energy, all this thing. I'll wait until he calms, which does happen now a lot faster than it used to, but he'll calm and then I'll. I'll wait until he's like laying down or sitting or just like calm, so I can take him calm, you know, as calm as he can be, so that I can leash him and then take him out and I'll say let's go. I use the door a lot for that, just because he wants to rush me a lot. Um, and then, once I take him out, he'll like take a beat, look around and then, and then I'm like stepping into him trying to like stop that from happening you also have very high expectations yes, like 100.
Speaker 1:Well, that's not really we're doing a lot yes, definitely a lot um yeah, I mean I, okay, I would personally bark, collar him and give him an outlet. I don't think him barking coming out of the crate is anything but just like big feelings. I don't think it's even frustration, like if I let zoe, my like 12 year old golden retriever, out and she's like jacked up. She's like, oh yes, like it's not that deep, it's not anything crazy. She's just like pumped, she just came out of the crate. She's like, yeah, like she just pumped up, like I don't know, personally I wouldn't try to like fix that or anything, or or I wouldn't view it as like there's anything necessarily wrong with them.
Speaker 1:He's just like, yeah, what big feelings. Also, part hound dog, right, like they're literally always talking, always talking, always talking. But I mean like, use that. Like, yeah, you want to play. Okay, you barking at me, you want to play? Go, grab your tug, give somewhere for that anxious energy to go if it is anxious energy right, but also like my dogs would follow me in the bathroom if I let them right.
Speaker 1:I would have three dogs piled outside of my shower if it were up to them. Yes, you know, like separation anxiety is like a very natural thing for dogs, like they want to be with each other all the time, you know. So, like lower your expectations and I would, instead of focusing on like trying to fix him or focusing on trying to like stop everything, focus on like ways that you can fulfill him. Okay, just do some fun shit with him. Let him be a little crazy and like it.
Speaker 1:It would be very different if you came to me and you're like meg my dog, like bit somebody, you know I'll be like all right, we need to reel it in a little bit here yeah that's not the case, you know, like it's just a dog, he's literally just a dog.
Speaker 2:You know he's never done is like mount people, but I think that's just a like I need to control the situation. I have big feelings and I don't know what to do with them. So like I'm here, like you know, um, so then, when it comes to like the house, like then do I still let him like sleep in the crate at night, like is that fine, like just building up, like it's not just the crate when I leave?
Speaker 1:Well, I would still like utilize the crate sometimes when you're home and when you're gone. You know the crate doesn't just mean that I'm leaving, it's just like a part of your routine. I would feed all of your meals in the crate. All the good stuff happens in the crate. Reward every single time he goes in. Got it Okay? And another thing that you could do is you could also like put a harness on him, hold him back, toss food in the crate.
Speaker 1:He's like let me go, let me go, let go, let me go, and then you let go. He goes in, gets the food right. So we're building up like drive to go into the crate I like that yeah okay.
Speaker 2:So yeah, building up that way, I do like that, that's really nice. So then there isn't always this thing of like like I need you to be relaxed and you're gonna be be in here for like six hours. You're going to be able to be free as well.
Speaker 1:It's just a thing, it's just a skill, it's just like place, it's just like any of our obedience, it's just like any of the skills that I teach you. That's all it is, you know, like it's not anything crazy.
Speaker 2:Got it. So his mornings now. So like let's say, it's like an hour, hour and a half of just like we're just having fun of. Like you're doing treadmill, we're doing tug yes, you can be outside, but like this is where we're focused. So instead of trying to hit the like he walks three hours a day like it's he's fulfilled in other ways. So then when I come home, even like do I jump straight into like tug?
Speaker 1:after, like taking him out of the crate or like let him use the bathroom to like get that energy out, or like go outside really quick and then come back and do tug um or switch it up. If you've been gone and you know he has to go to the bathroom, take him out to go potty first. So before we do any sort of like training sessions with our dogs, we always potty them. We'll take them to the same spot every time go potty. Okay, once you go potty, yes, come on, let's play. We're gonna do our training session, which, like for me, how I kind of structure everything is like first I take my dogs out and I do obedience with them. I'll like run them through some obedience. For minka, I'm mixing my obedience in with our play, got it um, and then I'll do like bite work with her, which is like more so focused on like the tug, the tug itself right.
Speaker 2:So then, instead of doing like like he's always done it, where, like he just kind of goes kind of freely like on the walk and like he'll kind of use the bathroom also just because he has bad gut health, so like he like sometimes like needs to work that out. So so instead of like do I just always take it like same spot, we're just gonna wait here until you do that, or like, can I also walk?
Speaker 1:I would do it on cue. Okay, you're teaching like hey, go potty now and you can stand there with like a flexi or a long line and like still let him walk around. No rules for that, other than you cannot drag me on leash.
Speaker 1:Yeah you cannot be popping off on other dogs, got it. So still have your tools on you, still have your e collar, still have your food, reward, your tug on you, like for now, I want you to be kind of extra with that and that, like you always have food on you, you always have a reward on you got it, so that I can redirect you when, like, let's say, an off-leash dog rushes us you know, let's correct that at this game that we've been playing, so for now, like you're just gonna of, like mostly doing potty I mean it's cold outright anyway.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's like those are long cold walks, and I'm not saying that like walks are not valuable, Like I think that there's a time and a place for the walks. But doing these like tug sessions will build up your communication system, yes, and your game, so that you can use that like when you need to out on the walk. But right now you don't really have like, uh, there's no like outlet if he is to have a big reactive moment, like you're just going to be shutting him down, which is not like the end of the world, Like nothing terrible is going to come of that, but like we might as well use it as a training opportunity and have your food on you and have your you know tug on you and you can redirect him when he decides to be reactive.
Speaker 2:Yes, and then. So, like, with his like sniff drive, of like always wanting to sniff things, like, can I incorporate that on like a walk of some sort of like letting him have that time as well, because I feel like that's another like just massive thing for him of like he needs to be nose to the ground sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so make sure that you are the one who designates it. So like, let's say, the first two minutes of your walk is like in heel, right. So you walk out the door where you're going to be in heel until I take you to the patch of grass where you go potty, and then I'll say break, you can sniff, you can do whatever you need to do. Whenever we're done with me or heel or whatever you need to do to call him back over to you in position, even just like leash guidance over to you. You know, walk back where you need to go. Okay, got it.
Speaker 1:And then like, if you wanted to practice, let's say your recall, it's like have him on a super long line or a flexi, go to the park, let him sniff, sniff, sniff, come. Yes, run backwards, pay, pay, pay, pay, pay, pay, wait, go back to sniffing. So, just like with our tug, um, I'm going to let you, like the reward is engaging with the tug again. So, like, for him, if he loves sniffing, the reward is I'm going to pay you, but then you can go back to sniffing. So just because I recall you doesn't mean that you're going to pay you, but then you can go back to sniffing. So just because I recall you doesn't mean that you're going to go into heel or I'm going to put control on you.
Speaker 2:Yes, cause I think that's where it's also coming up. He's like I get like 20 seconds to sniff and then I have to be structured again, and then I get 20 seconds and then I have to be like structured again and he's like this sucks. You know, unless we go to the big park, which then like that's, which is like just like the enclosed area, then he's like, then you can feel him like amped up all the way over there. If, like, we're having to do like back, back, back because he's so, if, like I want to get over there, because then you're going to leave me alone, yeah and I would.
Speaker 1:I would still have like control in those moments.
Speaker 1:But then whenever you do get to the place where, like you have more space and you're letting him sniff, have him on a like. We have like a 30 foot flexi and it's my favorite thing ever because, like I, it's basically off leash, but I know that my dog is still on leash. I'll typically have flexi e-collar, so like, let's say, the dog is 30 feet out, I'm going to tap on my e-collar, which means come back to me and I'm gonna pay, pay, pay, pay, pay. So let's say he's fixating on a dog, I almost want you to drop back. Yeah, all right, go ahead, stare at that dog. I'm gonna leave you because he's not super confident. So, like, if he looks around and you're gone, he's gonna be like and like run back to you and then when he does pay, pay, pay, pay, pay. So I'll let a dog look one, two, three, if they don't stop looking, then e-collar goes on. When you come back to me, e-collar goes off. Food, reward, yes, play, whatever that is for motivating.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, when we go in there, that's always like e-collar time. Um, I started with like the 15 foot and then I just started letting him do e-collar because I knew eventually, like he learned of like, especially when I have like the whole minnows, he's coming back, like you know, unless he has like the big reaction of like he's had. That, in which case, like, then I usually like I usually step into him and then like kind of like, like, that's my correction of like I'm gonna tap once. You're like looking at me, now I'm just going to step into you, we're done with that moment. And then like, okay, you're free again. And then, like, just giving him that time of just like, like, so my correction is really like the e-call is just like, hey, like tune in, like that's enough. And then I just like step in of like, let's back away from this whole moment. And then, like, I walk off and like now that's your leave.
Speaker 1:Like you, your body language leads the way. So, like you, pull back right because you want him to come towards you. Okay, try it, I don't know. Okay, yeah, do what works for you. You know, right what works in the moment.
Speaker 2:There's no like secret sauce for anything so if I'm like pulling back and he's like not, because he's like forward and reactive, then like I can like go and like kind of like with my body, like kind of scoop him up in a way.
Speaker 1:So if I were in that situation and the dog, like, was not responding to the e-caller, I would dial up, okay, until I get a level to where the dog's like, oh shit, and then they realize like, hey, I've been trying to communicate to you, yes, and then when they come back to me, yes, pay, pay, pay pay, pay, got it okay.
Speaker 2:So like I'm still like we're going until this moment and then like I'm still like hey, you're coming though, so it's not just like I get your attention and then like you can go back to like barking yeah, but okay, like I think you'll find, if you dip away, yeah, let's say you have him on a long line he's gonna be like come back to you.
Speaker 1:I very, very rarely have dogs that are so forward and so confident in their reactivity that they see their owner 20 feet away and then they go back to the dog like. That almost never happens. The the confidence that the dogs have to be forward and reactive is typically coming from pressure on the leash or us standing right next to them. You know, like I got you. You know like hold me back, kind of thing. So when you're like nope, not a part of this, they're like, oh shit, my person. You know, yes.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's part of the problem, because I'm like he's barking and then when I do get him to like kind of, look at me on the e-collar, I'm still coming towards him. So then he's like, oh well, she's coming to join, like versus. If I was stepping away and being like, well, let's go, then he'd be like oh wait, I don't. I.
Speaker 1:Now I have to make a choice exactly like act how you want him to act. We want him to leave the situation. He's unclumpy, for whatever reason. He doesn't want the dog to come into his space. Maybe like I don't know, I don't know, it doesn't really matter but like, what do I want you to do in that situation? I want you to remove yourself. There's no reason for you to be barking, just leave, you know. So like, I'm going to do that. And so like, let's say he's out there, we have him on a flexi. He's like getting ready to load up stem goes on. He pays attention to you. I'm gonna start turning my body this way. And then he's gonna be like, oh, you know, and follow you. So like, think about, when we're teaching recall, we don't move into the dog. When we're recalling towards us always yeah and then.
Speaker 2:So then like in the house, like reactivity, like towards the door or anything right, would that be like he's barking and then, like, I step away? Do I leave him on like an e-collar all the time or do I leave him like like, just like, yes, work, like that's when we're working, or yes?
Speaker 1:um, you can do both e-collaller and yes, so same sort of picture, okay. Yeah, so then like people coming just think pressure goes on when you're doing something. I don't like pressure goes off when you stop food reward. So pressure on either leash e-caller stim is on when you're out of place doing something. I don't like it goes off when you stop and then the reward comes for you engaging with me got it was it like when people come over, he's like, yeah, does it lead?
Speaker 2:anywhere. So for him, like what we've done before, is that like I would put like the place here because the door is right there, and then, like the last thing we did was like my dad came or my friends came, they came and they sat at like my dining table, that's like right at the entrance, and then I just had him on place. I had him on figure eight and then, once, like you know, yes, yes, yes, like he's barking, I'm like, okay, yes, yes, yes. Like just trying to like redirect him, and then, once he was calm, I would let him go and approach them and then go and sit with them and like they would pet him and like give him a lot of attention. But before it used to be just like barking and like charging people.
Speaker 1:And then I'm having to like, hey, help them yeah, um, I would probably try to practice putting him like in a position either next to you, on leash or on place before people come over, but if he does rush them I'll correct that, okay you know.
Speaker 2:So he would like jump off, like we had him on place. He like jumped off place and then I like had him on figure eight, so I like pulled back and then was like you know, and then we went back on place. I called place again and then waited until he showed calm, like yes, yes, yes, as he's calm, and then then letting him free of like now you can go approach that person when you're not barking and freaking out that they're here yeah, exactly so same thing.
Speaker 1:The figure eight loop is pressure. So, yeah, every time that you use your leash pressure, you could also use your e-collar pressure. Okay, yeah, so if you step off of place, he color goes on until you're back on place. Where people, where people mess up with this, is they let go of the stim too soon? Yeah? So where you let go of the stim is going to mark what we wanted, what you want him to do.
Speaker 1:So if he gets up off of place and stim goes on, and he's up barking at somebody and you just happen to let go because it's hard to sit there and be like, ah, hold, hold this button through all of this, grab the leash, you know. Then he's learning. Oh, stim goes on, which drives me up to barking at the person at the door, and then that stim goes off when I'm barking at the person at the door. So that's what I need to do. Got it Totally. If you are going to use e-caller in that way, make sure that you are very intentional and precise with when you let go of the pressure, got it and then, if not, then it's like leash pressure.
Speaker 2:But same thing, I let it go when he's on place, not when he's like about to get on it. Exactly, okay, that makes more sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was very clear. Pressure on, pressure off, okay, the thing that I ask reward. But let's say I have a dog that is like constantly breaking place and I'm not going to keep rewarding you on place, because then the game becomes oh, I'm just going to break place, because then she comes over, puts me back on place and then pays me Got it? A successful rep is one where I put you on place, I can walk away or have somebody walk in the room and you do not get up. Good, walk over, pay on position, got it. That's where good will come into play. Good is going to be paying position. That's going to create stability in our commands. I don't necessarily think that that's like the thing that's most important right now. I definitely want to build up drive towards you, motivation to play with you, motivation to engage with you, build up his confidence a little bit and then, down the road, we can put more control on him and his obedience.
Speaker 2:You know that makes so much sense. Yeah, so I think that's all my questions and I know I like took up so much of your time, but like thank you so much. I think that's all my questions.
Speaker 1:And I know I like took up so much of your time, but like thank you so much, yeah, of course, and like my disclaimer is like this is very different than what you've been doing. You know this is not going to like fix all of your problems. I think you have very, very high expectations for yourself and for your dog, yeah, and I just want you guys to like have fun with each other. Yeah, totally like enjoy your dog. Like god forbid, god forbid you enjoy your dog and like.
Speaker 1:This is coming from someone who has like a 12 year old now you know, like all the the behaviors that used to drive me nuts about Zoe, like I don't care, I don't care, you know, and I'm not going to when I don't have her anymore, and that's like so sappy to say, but it's so true, and I think we can get so caught up in like our dogs being perfect and like never barking and never being disobedient, and like if you met my dogs, you would be like, oh my gosh, they're crazy, crazy. But again, like I, let my dogs do whatever they want.
Speaker 2:So as long as, like, I still have some level of control over them, you know, and I think yeah, I think that's totally the case of like it's gotten to the point of like I've done so much structure consistently for like six months, whatever it's been, and then I'm like it's getting to the point where we're like we're doing so much structure, nothing's really working for us and like now we're just frustrated with each other like all the time.
Speaker 2:And it is that like whole thing of like I need to fix him and then like everybody's like but he's a good dog, he doesn't need to be fixed, he's just like having a hard time, so like we just have to give him other things. And I never consider like I think, because I always thought of the bark collar, like the one that I got of, just like you know, or like people who are like I never want my dog to bark and like they slap it on. Like you know, I have a brother like that who's like I hate that my dog barks and he's a rottweiler. So I'm gonna slap on a bark collar 24, 7 and I'm like that's, that's not how that works. That's a rottweiler, that's not how that works.
Speaker 1:But see, that's how I feel about you being like, oh, my dog's reactive. It's like, yeah, you got a pit bull mix. Welcome to the club. We all got reactive pit bull mixes.
Speaker 2:So I think that's the thing of I never considered putting the bar collar inside and then finding the level that works for him and then just working through that type of thing.
Speaker 1:It might be more comfy for him and then just kind of like working through that type of thing, it might be uncomfy for him at first.
Speaker 2:I don't want you to think that it's going to be all sunshine and rainbows no, yeah, but it's one of the tools that I use when I have dogs that are like popping off in crates, got it and drunk players don't really talk about them that much, but we all use them okay and then like for that also, like, so, like, let's say like he's at a Okay, and then like for that, also like so, like, let's say, like he's at a 20, whatever, and then like he eventually works down, do I like, do I always like tune into the camera to like see, cause then I don't want it to be. Like, then I'm like putting him at a 20 and then like I leave and he barks and like he's, it's like too much if it stops it, okay.
Speaker 1:But I don't want you to think that if it doesn't, that it's not working, then you might just need to dial up.
Speaker 1:So just kind of play around with it, see what level like works for him. What is probably going to happen and I don't know, like I don't have him in my care, but, like, what typically happens is the first time they feel it at a higher level he'll be like bark, yes, yes, yes, there's gonna be a moment of like what the fuck? But yeah, they learn. And that's why I like the bark colors is because they're so timely, is because, like, with an e-collar like you would never be able to match. Like bark, get corrected, you bark, get corrected, you bark, get corrected. It's a new thing for him, so it's going to take him a bit, um. So yeah, it might be. It might look like that at first, where he's like what the fuck is this, you know. But a lot of the time it's able to stop dogs got.
Speaker 2:It might not work, it might not, you know, but just play around find a level and then like so then once I find a level and he's like starting to calm down, do I like lower that level over time, type of thing. Like the same thing of like I take him out, I recall, and all of a sudden he needs five yeah, if a lower level works, by all means.
Speaker 1:But just do whatever level works. You know don't get too hung up on the number, just more. So look at his response to it yeah, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:So like I leave him if he's like out of 20, and every time it happens he's like this, then like that was not the number type of thing well, if it stops him barking, then okay, okay, got it.
Speaker 1:So you know what I'm so like. If he barks and he's like, if he barks and he's like doesn't do it again, then I know that that level worked Right. So then he's not going to bark again because he's going to avoid that, which I want. Like, I want a little bit of avoidance with that, because I'm trying to teach you that you don't have to act this way. Right and create, because right now it's just become such a conditioned response create you, leave anxiety. Create you leave anxiety. Like we have to disrupt that cycle and then we can work on, like him feeling better when you leave, you know.
Speaker 1:So, like you leave, he barks, gets corrected, he settles, come back in, pay him, got it okay, so like while I'm like start watching it like, so like when I first get it, start doing it while I'm home yeah, and if he's in the crate and he's calm, pay him, reward him, walk by the crate and toss some food in there, good got it.
Speaker 2:He's calm, good pay like no, we haven't done much of that.
Speaker 2:I think like maybe in the beginning I had started it because he had such like of anxiety of it that I would be like oh wow, like he's so chill, like hey, here's a treat type of thing, or like every now and then, like you know, I'll give him like one of like a duck foot or a duck head or whatever and I'll toss that in there for him and like that's, that's your moment thing, but not necessarily like a reward system. And I also think, like when I'm building like distance, it's always been like I have to go to school every day, so I have no choice. Like I have to leave those five hours, so I haven't always done it. Like like my aunt was even telling me she's like you take out the trash with him and then, like now he has this thing of every time he sees the trash he thinks he's supposed to be with you. So because, like, you're so against like leaving him, so then, like in five minutes, if I take out the trash on the weekend, that's the reaction I'm getting.
Speaker 1:Like same thing versus like if I leave for school, maybe it takes 10 minutes and then he builds up practice leaving okay, so always practice it just like put him in the crate, grab all your things, walk out the door before he goes to pop off, rush back in, pay him. So he's like, oh shit, she didn't leave, right, we're breaking the cycle of his expectations got it.
Speaker 1:So then, like grabbing the trash, like closing the door and then like like going right back in type of thing, yeah, and like doing that to build up time yep, so in like dog sport world, what we'll do is we'll put the dog like in a down and then we'll walk away and go like stand behind a tent thing yeah, the dog can't see us. And then we walk back, reward the dog. Yes, so I'm gonna randomly come back in and reward you when you're staying here and you're calm.
Speaker 2:So the dog is like to anticipate stay there and be calm, because that's what gets me rewarded got it 100, yeah so I think that would be for marker word good that that would be good, Cause I want him to stay in there versus yes, we're like he can break out. Yep, Exactly Understood. I think that's also what's throwing us off of like me being like yes, and he's like okay, so we're done. And then I'm like Ooh, that was the wrong one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yes, is terminal Always reward on me, right? Good is in position, in position, got it. So you stay there, that's good, I'm gonna come to you and I'm gonna reward, got it love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, I think that's so. Then now I think I'll probably order the bark collar and then start working that of like like this weekend, even like I don't have it, but like this weekend just working up, like I go, you get rewarded. Because then I think he's used to like in these like five days in a row like she's in class and then like I get a break where she's home all the time, and then like, then he's like shocked when I leave those days yeah, and record your sessions playing with him too okay, 100% yeah and like, so we can like keep track of, like how that looks.
Speaker 2:Like, right yeah. So then building up that drive and everything is what we're working on and where are you located? We're in Bloomington, indiana, so I'm in, I'm in college, so I'm in IU. That's why.
Speaker 1:Bloomington.
Speaker 2:I'm not just me.
Speaker 2:What dog trainers I know out there have to see what dog trainers I know out there. Yeah, I have, like Emily, her I worked with. But then I also found out that there's I just recently found out that there is like a place here that works with um dogs. It's like a ranch type of thing and they they do board and train also, but like that's not of interest, but like they do like the tracking like work, like scent work for them. So then I was like I want to do that, but since he can't, like he's horrible with like groups of like other dogs, I wanted to get him to a point where, like I know, like I can work him through that and then then sign him up for that type of thing where, like he can be around other dogs and focusing on the thing that he wants to do.
Speaker 1:I think you would be surprised like most people just just have car crates and then you don't take your dog out until, like you're working them. Oh, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Got it but like when we do training sessions with dogs and like we're not doing detection or tracking or anything like that, but like it's the same sort of thing, like everybody has their dogs in the car and we just like take turns. You know, like not everybody's dogs are good and I think the more that you start to do like sporty things, you'll realize like oh, people's dogs are really bad because they're crazy and I feel like that would be like that's his thing.
Speaker 2:Where I was like they want to do bite work and I was like I'm gonna hold off on bite work just because, like I feel like the tracking's his thing. Where I was like they want to do bite work and I was like I'm going to hold off on bite work just because, like I feel like the tracking is his thing and I want him to get, cause I like I heard about like Shane and even though he's in California, just about like his bite work stuff and she was like it's whether or not like the dog can shut off like the prey drive and like into like defense drive. And I'm like I know that once Kobe's like he's someone suspicious, he's like I don't trust, like I can't play with you anymore, like I don't like you, like he just decides I don't like this person, so he doesn't.
Speaker 1:If you make it a game, they don't have that issue. Most dogs, like mink, for example, the one that I just took out like we've been working her in bite work and it gives her an outlet and like she doesn't care about Shane working her. It's not about Shane, it's about the tug, it's about the sleeve, it's about the equipment. I wouldn't stress about that. If you do decide to do bite work with her, but this is what they'll have you do is build up this game. Build up the game of like playing tug inside right.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I think they had things on like they had drive building, they had the tracking and I was like, well, this dog never gets to do his sniff walks anymore. So like that would be his thing, because if you do it right. I was like if I hide something in this house, he will find it. You know, even like me I'm, he will find it. You know, even like me, I'm like he will find me anywhere. I think like it was like my dad used to pick me up sometimes and he would stay in the car with Kobe and like the second like I hit a certain part, like on my walk to that car, kobe already was going cause he knew I was in the vicinity somehow Like he like. So I was like I know this dog's got like an incredible nose and would love to use it. We just never have any way to work it. So that should definitely be a consideration for him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I really I think you should and I think it would give you like a good little community of dog people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, out here. Yeah, that would be perfect.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that might be something we do coming up now because I have like spring break coming up and things like that. So that we do coming up now because I have like spring break coming up and things like that. So that might be something we consider. Yeah, the dog sport people are crazy, but it would be so fun for him. That's the thing. I was like, well, he's not a sports dog, so like would it work.
Speaker 1:And then it's like, well, it could, it really could be what he wants to do all the time yeah yeah, it just becomes like a fun thing and like you'll even get to the point where you like, pull up to the place and he's like, yes, you know, yeah got it, yeah it just. It like gives them a job, it gives them purpose, like yeah, it's so fulfilling for them to like succeed at something. You know, when we're constantly like correcting them all the time, they're like god damn, I just can't do anything right.
Speaker 2:I never win yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So give them some wins, but build up your tug, practice your marker words, all of that stuff inside, um, and I would just be a little less strict yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much. I know I seem like so crazy, but like I really appreciate it and I know I've tried like a million and one things. I think it is like a high expectations, but I felt like you do need to drop your expectations a little bit. Yeah, and I feel like the second I found you, I was already like why am I doing this? Cause I'm already like chill, or on walks where even like he barked at that person, I was like whatever, like you know, let's just move on like we're fine, it is what it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly we're done like so yeah, so I think like you've helped a lot and I think he's going to be a much happier dog because I feel like it's been like a few months of just like I'm miserable and I have all this energy that's going nowhere, and I think now he's going to have somewhere to put it and like that will help tremendously. And so maybe, like I would think, we have six weeks of like coming off of medication before he starts anything else. So maybe, if, like, we're seeing some improvement with like the bar collar might not start the SSRI, because then I was a little nervous about the SSRI anyway, about the SSRI anyway. So if he's able to kind of calm himself down a little bit, then he might not need some like crazy medication that's like driving him nuts. Maybe like CBD will work every now and then for him enough?
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, but let me know. And if you want to schedule another one, you have my number too, so you can send me videos and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Thank you so much. I like can't thank you enough. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're very welcome. Keep me updated. Let me know how it goes, okay.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Thanks so much.
Speaker 1:All right, guys, I hope you enjoyed this episode. It was a long one If you stuck with me through it Amazing. I hope you got some good little nuggets of knowledge from it. And if you're ever interested in scheduling a virtual session with me, this is kind of how it will go. We'll talk about your dog and I'll give you a game plan of you know what I think you should do for training, so I'll include that in the link of the show notes, along with the link for virtual shadow program and adventure board and trains, with the link for virtual shadow program and adventure boarding trains, as always. Thank you guys so so much for being here, for listening, being fans and supporters. Love you guys so much. We'll see you next week, thank you.