.jpg)
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
Van Life with Puppies: The Journey Begins
Meg and Thoma share their experiences living in vans with dogs and introduce their newly adopted Malinois puppies, exploring the ethics and controversies of dog acquisition.
• Navigating van life in southern California where regulations and neighbors create challenges for mobile dog trainers
• How two 6-week-old Malinois puppies were rescued after being scheduled for euthanasia at a veterinary clinic
• Introduction to protection dog sports and the importance of good genetics versus training
• The controversy between supporting rescue dogs versus purpose-bred working lines
• Integrating new puppies into existing dog packs and managing littermate interactions
• Understanding the reality of backyard breeding while acknowledging every dog deserves a chance
• The experience of raising potentially unpredictable genetics in a sport dog environment
• Updates on adventure board and train programs planned for northern California
Join us for our next episode where we'll discuss our recent PSA trial experiences with a full panel of sport dog trainers!
Hello, hello, and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. Today I am joined by Toma and we are going to chat with you guys about van life updates life on the road with puppies. And we're going to chat with you guys about van life updates life on the road with puppies, and we're going to introduce our puppies to you and talk a little bit about the ethics of where we get dogs. So you know the drill Grab yourself a tasty drink and meet us back here. Hello, hello, welcome back y'all. It's been a couple weeks.
Speaker 1:I had to take a bit of a breather away from the podcast, not because I don't like doing this, but I simply was having issues uploading on the road. So our tasty drink of choice today is coffee. Coffee, which is our favorite coffee shop in Encinitas. We stayed in Encinitas, uh, last night and did not get a ticket. We love. We love when we don't get parking tickets overnight. So we've been spending a lot of our time in, like, the san diego la area and it has been kind of tough. I feel like southern california has really been cracking down on vans, like all of the spaces where people are like oh yeah, you can go and stay here. We go. And then there's like a van person who's like you can't stay here. They're like cracking down on it and it's like OK.
Speaker 2:Yeah, where were we the other day? Like, I think, san Diego.
Speaker 1:We were in.
Speaker 2:Ocean Beach and then this guy in like a red van rolls up. He's like I've been parking here for like two months, here for like two months. But just letting you know you can't sleep here anymore. You're gonna get a ticket. So yeah, I think that's how it goes, like there's these spots where you can camp and eventually, like municipalities, just kind of crack down on it and boot everybody out yeah, so that's kind of been.
Speaker 1:Our struggle is like finding and I and I do think it's more difficult for us because we are two vans. I think it would be easier if we were just like one van. But essentially what we do is we just like when we're in a city, we drive and park on like streets where there's like a lot of cars, you know, and we'll just kind of pull in late at night and then we wake up early in the morning and leave yeah, we try to blend in, but let's be real, this is a full-blown train, you know yeah yeah, and also like a bunch of dogs it's funny because my sprinter van was my daily driver in Orlando and like I never, I never had issues like parking it anywhere, like I never even thought about that.
Speaker 1:But there's not like a bunch of van lifers in Florida and I guess here there's so many van lifers and like people hate van lifers, like let's be real, like we were even parked at our friend's house and we're just like visiting them.
Speaker 1:We're parked like on a side street, we're not even parked in front of anybody's house, but there was like an entire police chase and like there's helicopters, there's like cops racing down the street and we're like, ok, it's like 10 pm, we're going to wait until there's not a police chase outside anymore, because they're like, oh, a suspect is on the run, blah, blah, blah. So we're like, ok, we're going to wait and then we'll go to our vans and like leave. So we're like, okay, we're going to wait and then we'll go to our vans and like leave. And we pulled up to our vans and like's like there's literally an abandoned, runaway car and like a tow truck and I like police and like you're worried about us, like sleeping on the side of the street parked on this street and we weren't even going to stay there, we were literally just visiting a friend and it's like I've never had that happen to me in orlando.
Speaker 1:You know, like I've never been at like daniel's house and the neighbor be like you can't sleep here and I'm like this is just my car, like we're literally just visiting somebody, I don't know it's been like it's been tough. It's been tough living in the city. We got a little taste for like actual van life being in our trip to arizona this past weekend yeah, that's when it really makes it all worth it.
Speaker 2:But kind of going back to your point, like when you park at a friend and like it's never been an issue, like it's not even a problem, like only at night it's like sometimes it's like during the day yeah, and you get like a neighbor. Be like you're not planning on staying here, are you and it's? It's like this is just our daily driver.
Speaker 1:Like yeah, like we pulled up to that park and the guy it was literally 5 pm the guy pulled up, knocked on my window, was like you know, you can't stay here, right, and I was like we're just letting our dogs out and he's like okay, well, I already called the cops and I was like okay, he's like so, like yeah, that was literally like the conversation. He's like yeah, so I was like okay, and then we just like pulled away, like I don't know, it's very interesting, it's so interesting. I'm not gonna get into, like the, the politics of california, but it's very like it's a beautiful place, it's expensive to live in and we got like the.
Speaker 1:I get it like I I get why they don't want van lifers, but also there are some parts of california that are like so dirty and sketchy and that is overlooked, you know, yeah, and they're like oh yeah, you can, your vehicle can get robbed, and like that's fine, but like you cannot exist in a sprinter van here, like we will make sure and it's like okay, why is that the thing that you guys choose to crack down on? I don't know.
Speaker 2:People are probably gonna hate me for saying that, but but it's true, it's just our reality, you know the the rundown camper van that probably doesn't even run, that has a bunch of junk around it.
Speaker 1:That's tolerated yeah, like that's never gonna. No one that guy's been there for months, there's no problem yeah, we were like at our client's house and we didn't have anywhere to park, so we're like, okay, well, we, we gotta go, like we can't stay here for very long.
Speaker 1:And then, like across the street, there's like a camper that has like dogs tied up outside of it, there's like piles of trash around it, and they're like oh yeah, that's just like always there and I'm like but like homeless encampments or I don't know what you would call that, but yeah yeah, I don't even know like we are homeless yeah, it's the same thing yeah, but anyways, it's like a weird, it's a, it's an interesting dynamic and you know, maybe we should get out of california, but all of our people are here and all of the people that we train with are here, and we just got two new puppies. Well, one new puppy.
Speaker 2:We have two new puppies in our care. For the past We've had two new puppies for the last two weeks, but we're keeping one of the two.
Speaker 1:Yes, intro Muffin, muffin is. Oh the train.
Speaker 2:The Encinitas train.
Speaker 1:The Encinitas train. Muffin is the little fluffy Malinois that we have. She is literally the cutest thing in the entire world. I wasn't really planning on getting a puppy anytime soon, but we kind of had the discussion of like are you, do you want a puppy?
Speaker 2:And you're like I don't really want a puppy with my two dogs you know no for sure I think I would want another male and I don't think I should be introducing another male into my pack. It's just more crate and rotate versus. You have three dogs, that well, all females that I'll get along. And yeah, these are two female puppies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think they fit right in. I like the girlies, yeah. So I was either going to get I was actually looking at Traverns a little bit, but kind of my next dog was a Chihuahua. I was going to get a tiny dog and there was a Chihuahua from a rescue that I was going to get, and then they're like oh no, sorry, she's been adopted. And then she wasn't adopted and they were like oh, do you want her?
Speaker 2:and I was like no, I'm like I'm getting this puppy now.
Speaker 1:It wasn't meant it wasn't meant to be so. Anyways, muffin and her sister she doesn't have a name yet um, she's going to her owner at the end of the month, so in the next like two weeks, week and a half, she's gonna go to her new owner, which will be good, because they're starting to get a little feisty with each other. They are malinois puppies, um, and they're very feisty I want to preface too.
Speaker 2:We got them at six weeks and we kind of can dive into their story shortly. But you know they're they're eight weeks now. It's kind of a good time to like start splitting them up, you know, just to avoid any like um yeah.
Speaker 1:So if you don't know, we don't typically want to keep litter mates and that's kind of been a big thing. People like why are you keeping both of them? And I'm like I'm not, I'm not keeping both of them. Um, they're just prone to fighting Like they just are. I don't really know like the why behind that, but typically when you get litter mates they can get like litter mate syndrome. So if you do have litter mates and your dogs have like gotten into it, that could be a big factor to that.
Speaker 1:So I never recommend that owners get two puppies from the same litter, especially two of the same sex. I feel like that's just like putting a lot of pressure on them and it typically does not end very well. So how we got these puppies is somebody in our club. So we are part of the Elevated Bite Club, which is just a sport dog club. If you don't know what dog sports are, the one that Toma has been training for and that kind of our club has been training for mostly is PSA. What does PSA stand for? Protection Sport Association.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:Look at me, go Okay. So protection sports sports, if you are unfamiliar, is when we train our dogs to bite the guy in the big puffy suit. So if you've ever seen that on social media or you've seen us doing that with our dogs, right, people will like send it's typically Malinois, dutch Shepherds, german Shepherds, dobermans, rottweilers we got some pit bulls.
Speaker 2:Any drive dog, the bull herders.
Speaker 1:We can't leave out Shane's dogs, the bull herders, shane's and Leslie's dogs. They'll be upset, yeah. So dogs that have some genetic predisposition to want to bite, and we train them to be able to do that in a safe way. So the thing about sports that are a little bit different from personal protection is sports are more so focused on the equipment. So the equipment being the sleeve or the suit or you know whatever it is that we want them to bite, it's very equipment focused, whereas when you're training a dog as like a personal protection dog, you want that dog to be it's called civil and that simply means that the dog would bite a person. So you want to fade out the equipment. You don't want the dog to focus on biting like a sleeve. And then let's say you have your personal protection dog out or, for example, a police dog, and then that dog won't bite an actual person because there's no sleeve there or there's no suit there. So that's a that's kind of a differentiator between the two.
Speaker 1:So we train for sport. It's very much just like a game for the dogs. It does not make them aggressive at all. I would say it's actually the opposite. You have to have so much control and an established relationship with the dog that, like people who are higher up in sports like genuinely have so much control over their dog and their dog has, like such a clear understanding of like what they need to do in any given scenario. So we are part of that club and one of our club members um I, I, is she friends, I don't know someone that she knows posted that these puppies were available from the vet's office. So someone brought their two malinois in to get spayed and neutered and when they went to go spay the female they found that she had I think it was six.
Speaker 1:Six full term puppies and the owner requested that they be euthanized. The people at the vet's office wanted that to be last case scenario, so they reached out to the community to see if anybody could nurse the puppies and basically like raise them up and then find them homes. So Charlene volunteered to take two of the puppies and someone else took four of the puppies. Unfortunately, my puppies were the only ones who made it because Charlene the person who's in our club, who we're friends with, like she literally woke up every two hours. She nursed these puppies every two hours. She did everything that she could to make sure these puppies were like, so fat and healthy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean it takes a lot to weld puppies and then you add in the element of you don't have the mom. Yeah, there's no mother in the picture, so she did an amazing job.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I was looking for a Traverne, like online. I was like looking at Traverne breeders, it's just like a fluffy Malinois and the Traverne people are like like get very upset at me for saying that, but like that's truly how it is it's a long-coated Belgian Shepherd so Belgian Shepherds are like the breed right, and then there's like different coats yeah, there's like four subcategories and then I guess so Malinois have like the short, the Malinois are like the ones that have been bred more so to do bite work and the others are kind of like show line or, like you know, the emphasis has hasn't been on training the, the actual like, uh, genetic temperament to like want to work.
Speaker 2:Right, look at that, it's our morning alarm.
Speaker 1:But what I didn't know is that you could get Traverns out of Malinois.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just a genetic trait Excessive gene. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's what happened.
Speaker 1:One of the puppies is like short haired, typical Malinois, and then Muffin is fluffy, so she is a Travern. I don't think the AKC will like classify her as a Travern, I don't know. Somebody was telling me that and I was like I don't really care, that doesn't really matter to me. But anyways, charlene was posting these puppies and I was like tell me about these puppies and she was like, oh, you know, told me the backstory. Like I been, you know, raising them, I'm looking for a home for them. And I was like, okay, I might be interested. So one of my uh trainers, she did my retreat. She also did like my virtual shadow program. She's up in San Francisco, kehlani. She has been looking for a female male because she has been raised in training a uh well, we introduced her to like her first Dutch Shepherd that she's had for a couple months is Kila a Dutchie or a Mal?
Speaker 1:she's a Dutchie? No, she's a Mal. Anyways, keela is a little mal slash dutchie. We don't really know.
Speaker 2:She's like a dark dry drivey bitey dog a tiny, drivey bitey dog.
Speaker 1:So we got keela when we were in florida because she got placed with her handler. But she was very, very young when she got placed with her handler. She was like six months old and she just wasn't really ready to be a service dog yet.
Speaker 2:Well service dog slash.
Speaker 1:Personal protection dog, Just a personal protection dog that goes everywhere with her handler. So it's through. What's the organization?
Speaker 2:Valor Canine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, so it's through Valor Canine. Valor Canine basically trains service dogs and personal protection dogs for human trafficking survivors yes um, and then I'm assuming also like military, like uh war veterans yes, so one of the one of the survivors she actually like works with other human trafficking survivors and so she can find herself in, like you know, not the safest of areas. So they wanted to place her with a personal protection dog. So she was having issues with her dog. She was still a very young puppy.
Speaker 1:We ended up taking her in and we trained her for a bit with us in Florida. But then when we had to leave, we're like, hey, we don't really think that this dog is ready to go back to the handler. We can take her out here to California and then figure out how to transport her later. And Mike Mike Jones, one of the people who's like a part of Valor he was like, yeah, bring her out, that way I can oversee the training.
Speaker 1:So we brought her out and then we learned very quickly that we could not live with keela in the van because she would bark constantly, constantly. We could not park anywhere because there would be a little little malinois popping off in our van everywhere. So we're like, hey, um, we can't do this with this dog, like we can't house, house her. Can you guys house her? And they're like, no, we can't house her, we have too many dogs. So I was like what if I find somebody who can train her and like, take care of her? So we enter Kehlani. So Kehlani took Keela and has been doing an amazing job with her. She literally trains her every single day.
Speaker 2:It has been her intro to a bitey dog and so she's been learning like bite mechanics and tugging and like how to build up, drive in a dog, how to you know, like how to do all the things with keela yeah, I mean it was super cool because, like she came to our retreat and we had keela for like four months, so at that time she, she saw Kila for the first time and she was like really hyped on on her and like I think she, you know, she played tug with her for like five minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we had all the girls at the retreat like play tug with Kila, because I feel like a lot of them are just mostly like pet trainers and so when you work like a really drivey dog like that, they're like oh shit.
Speaker 2:Your markers and timing has to be like clutch, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:She's like going to bite your hand if you, like you know, say the wrong thing at the wrong time. And yeah, you have to be very, very good at the basics.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so obviously she was like super interested in Kila and then like I think maybe a month later we present her the opportunity and she was, she was super stoked.
Speaker 1:So, yes, she was like oh my gosh, yes, so how it worked out.
Speaker 2:She got to train a bunch with um Mike and you know, I think she learned a ton.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then she just recently, like what? Last weekend, yeah, last weekend, excuse me, last weekend she transported Keela back to Florida with her handler and she was super bummed so she knew that she was always going to have to get rid of Keela. She was getting attached to her and I was like, all right, like what are you going to do? You have to get like, you have to get another Malinois Like you got to. You got to have a dog that you can work with us. You have to get another Malinois Like you gotta. You gotta have a dog that you can work with us.
Speaker 1:So I saw that Charlene posted these puppies and I was like are they females? And she was like yes, and I knew Kehlani wanted a female Mal. So I sent her the puppy and I was like hey, like you, let me know, I'll bring you this puppy. And she was like oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1:So she ended up doing a call with Charlene and like talk to her about the puppy. And she was like I, like I want this puppy. And I was like amazing, I might take the other one, um, which is like a whole other like controversial thing, because I am training for sport with Minka and I'm training with some of the best people in sport and they are very particular about the dogs that they get, which is very understandable. Like you know, oscar and Shane, they seek out the best breeders and the best puppies and they keep the puppies that are going to do the best in the sport that they train for. How much they train, you know like you don't, once you're at their level, you don't want to invest all of your time and training into a dog that is not genetically bred for the thing that you do 24 7.
Speaker 2:You know like, yeah, oscar is the sport dog trainer I mean, genetics definitely matter, and we were talking a little bit about sport initially and you were kind of talking about like teaching dogs how to bite. I would almost argue I mean, you do need to teach some mechanics and some control, but like a, a dog, like a, a dog, like a good genetic dog, technically, like you don't even need to teach them to bite like they like they just do it because, like their parents did it and their parents, parents did it and like correct you know like.
Speaker 2:And then the generations of dogs have, like, performed well in this sport for sure, and then, like you're actually, the emphasis is more on teaching, like control and obedience, um, but that, you know, doesn't go to say that like a good dog, is where you find it and honestly, these little puppies are, are pulling up.
Speaker 1:They look pretty drivey and super confident so far, so yeah we'll see, and that was kind of the thing is, like I asked everybody in the club and everybody like was like no, no, do not take that dog. Like, if you want to do sport and if you want to do well in sport, do not take backyard bread Malinois, which is fair.
Speaker 2:It's like it's a yes.
Speaker 1:That is the advice that I would give anybody else, you know, but I, I don't know, I guess I just have like a bit of a different perspective. I do sports for fun. It's not necessarily something that it's like it's not my entire life, like it is with, you know, shane and Oscar, and like Chris Sykes. So like I understand why they, you know, want the best of the best's outside, but for me it's like it's justa fun thing for me to do. And I have had to do a lot of building with Minka. Like I did get Minka from a good breeder and I think just because I raised her in like a dog trainer pet house and because she is so sensitive, like she's just very polite and everybody that I brought her to is like you've over corrected this dog, like she's scared to make a mistake, like and I'm like I've literally never corrected her, like ever I let Minka do whatever she wants because she is so soft and she is so sensitive.
Speaker 2:so I really really like I've had to work very hard with minka I mean, yeah, I see it day in, day out and she's very slow to learn things she's so slow to learn things, so that's it took her like six months to learn how to like bark at you versus like you take out lucy and I'm like barking hold, yeah, she does it the first day?
Speaker 1:yeah, but I mean and I think it's because she's just like I don't even think she's just scared, she's just like I'm a polite girl, yeah, you know, and like even positions, like I was doing positions with her and it's like the this is the first day yesterday that I got her to do a stand yeah, I think sometimes she just has no brain she just doesn't think sometimes, yeah, so that's kind of the other side of it is like I did do the thing I did get a dog from like a really good breeder and like I love Minka more than anything, like I think she is the perfect sport dog for me and I do think that she's gonna pull up yeah, I think now like she's getting there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're almost there like that's the other cool thing about being surrounded with like good trainers. Like oscar looked at her and he's like you know what this is? A ring dog like he just knows.
Speaker 1:Like now, yeah and so now we've been training for a ring and I'm like, oh yeah, she's gonna kill it. Like she's gonna do so good, because like she doesn't have like a fancy prancy heel like you see in like PSA or IGP, but like she has high prey drive and she, she does like to bite. We've trained her for that. She's like very, she's very controlled, like she doesn't waste energy and like in French ring, the trials are long. Like you don't want a dog that has like this high energy fancy heel, like you want kind of like a uh, an internal dog that, like, conserves energy yeah, exactly, you want a dog that it's like internally focused and like, because I have such a good relationship with Minka, like she outs so fast.
Speaker 1:You know like I I mean I don't know like knock on wood, I don't think I'm gonna have like an issue with her outing. You know I'm not gonna have an issue with her like leaking and be like, you know, like a lot of these other like super intense dogs yeah, all the issues that I have with hawk yeah, and that's the other thing do well in ring that's the other thing. That's kind of crazy too is like I don't know.
Speaker 1:I'm so used to being around, like all of you guys that have these fucking cracked out dogs, you know, and then we go to this psa trial and we watch the the dogs that actually do well in the upper levels are more like minka, like they're more internal, they're like a little slower, they're like very handler focused, they're not like leaking all over the place and I'm like, hmm, this is very interesting, yeah. So yeah, I got like I got people telling me like do not take this puppy, like just get a puppy from a well-bred breeder. And I totally get that. Like just get a puppy from a well-bred breeder, and I totally get that. The other part of you know taking these puppies Well, first of all, I am going to do sport with them. I'm going to try to build them up into sport and you know kind of like see where that goes. The other thing is like I don't really know, like I don't know they're much feistier than Minka ever was. Minka like never bit me.
Speaker 2:As a puppy, versus their typical Malinois.
Speaker 1:latched onto your pants, they're like ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah ah. They get angry sometimes. I'm like whoa.
Speaker 2:More importantly, I think it's really cool how confident they are. There's nothing that I've seen that's really fazed them so far, which is a good sign. Nothing phases them like, but then again like they were raised in charlene's home. She has a bunch of kids and charlene has three children.
Speaker 1:It's like wild, like I want to raise all my puppies in charlene's home because they were like they're just hilarious with these puppies. They're like screaming at these puppies and the puppies are like barking back at them and they're like you know, shaking things and like throwing things on them and I'm like this is literally what you want to do for sport dogs.
Speaker 2:You know it's like utter chaos, but it's perfect. Yeah, I was like oh, this is great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like we could never replicate that scenario. Particularly yeah, so they're super, super confident, confident. My plan is I would really like to do french ring with muffin. Um, she's eight weeks old now, or I guess closer to nine, so I've kind of started luring, I've started flirt pole with her, trying to get her to like bite chase, you know, follow food. So her mouth is still so tiny though for sure. Yeah, it's hard like she's, like she cannot she, it's like huge for her, even like the tiny little pieces of um freeze-dried raw.
Speaker 2:She's like but she's cool. She actually like looks up like she she's engaged, checking in with you and stuff, while also still being very independent and kind of like just wandering around yeah, confidently.
Speaker 1:She's a very cool puppy. I'm very excited to like see how it goes with her, you know, but part of getting dogs that I don't know the genetics of is, I think in my eyes and you know, the the best place for these puppies are with trainers, because if they do have, you know, behavioral issues at some point, I think we're a little more educated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're a little more like equipped to be able to work through those issues. We can, you know, see them early on and, you know, prevent them. We can, you know, see them early on and, you know, prevent them. I haven't seen any issues maybe with, like Kehlani's puppy, a little bit of resource guarding, but with the sibling I feel like that's very normal, you know, like that's nothing like out of pocket or anything that is like too concerning now. But the reason why people get dogs from breeders is because the genetics are predictable, you know, and good breeders are breeding for temperament. We don't know the parents of these dogs, we don't really know what we're gonna get and we can control, you know, parts of it through how we raise them. But genetics are a bitch.
Speaker 2:And they might have weaker nerves, not be able to take on the pressure and the upper levels, things like that yeah.
Speaker 1:There's a lot that we can do, though. There's a lot that we can do in raising them, but that's not to say that genetics don't have a very big pull in how they end up being. You know, and that's why dog trainers and, you know, professionals in the dog world often push people to getting dogs from well-bred breeders instead of dogs that we don't know the genetic background of, and something that I'm getting a lot of backlash for on the internet, which, you know, I just take it with a grain of salt. It's like TikTok. People have kind of popped off on my video with the puppies, saying that they should be euthanized, that it is unethical for the vets to keep them around and that the vet should have euthanized them because they are backyard bred, which you know, sure, I guess. But the other side of that is, if somebody took these puppies and brought them to a shelter and I rescued these puppies from a shelter, I would be a hero, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's pretty funny and we kind of saw that with like River when we went and pulled River from the shelter like everybody was like, oh my gosh, thank you so much for saving this dog, you know.
Speaker 2:And it's really no different, it's literally not different at all.
Speaker 1:It's just like it's interesting. Yeah. So where is the line on rescuing dogs?
Speaker 2:You know, because, like most of the dogs in shelters are not coming from good breeders, that is why they are in the shelters and I also want to preface like a lot of dogs that are in the shelters are in the shelters because they have a lot of drive and they're too much for your average pet home.
Speaker 2:I think there's probably a lot of your listeners that have like moderately drivey Malinois that are not necessarily from the best crazy pedigree or whatever, but there's a lot of these dogs that do well in the sport and, like you know, some of which like make it to the upper levels obviously, but I think it's like really in the upper levels that you see like the difference. Um, because, like some dogs can't take the pressure and that's where you find like trainers wanting to have like a more intense, like genetically sound dog, just because if you're gonna put in all that time, it's an energy, into training these dogs, it's not just to make it to like a level one yeah like make it to the top like the amount of time that I'm putting in minka.
Speaker 1:You know, like if she were a different dog, I think we would be much further along for sure, but you also.
Speaker 1:You also learn a ton from a dog like that, so oh, yeah, like I I enjoy it, you know, but I could see how somebody like you know, oscar or Shane, like would hate that because it's like it feels like you're swimming upstream. I do so many sessions I actually. Like, when I first got Minka three years ago, I, every single day I posted a video of me working her every single day. I worked her literally three times a day. I have all of the recordings of our training sessions.
Speaker 1:Like I was doing all of the things that I was, like quote, supposed to be doing and you know, like she didn't turn out to be this, you know, crazy sport dog a year in, even with all the work that I was doing and I like I'm sure I wasn't like doing the right things, you know, and that's kind of been pointed out to me, which is totally fine like I got her so that I could learn what the heck I was doing. Um, but that would be really frustrating for somebody who wants to get into the higher levels of a sport.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know and I mean on the flip side, like you see me training hawk, sometimes like he's the opposite, where he learns like very fast and he's sometimes faster than I am, because I'm also like uh, like a new sport dog trainer, and then he gets frustrated and I don't know. I think in a sense, maybe sometimes you see me training Hawk and it looks easier, but also you see where we struggle because he gets frustrated, that I'm slow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hawk picks things up. Very Hawk is very smart. I don't think you give Hawke enough credit, like you kind of treat him like he's an idiot and he I feel like abuses you because he's like this guy is an idiot.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:No, for sure he's. Hawke is very smart. Like you, do not give him enough credit. He picks up things so fast.
Speaker 2:Like one rep, so fast like one rep, but that's good or bad. Like you know, he'll pick up a bad rep really fast as well. Yeah, and if, if I don't pay fast enough, then he like gets frustrated and like barks at me and stuff um yeah, he's like hurry the fuck up yeah, but sometimes, like I struggle to like teach him new things, but but for different reasons than minka, because like he's, he, yeah, he learns fast minka gets like stuck.
Speaker 1:Minka gets like stuck in no thoughts yeah, no him, it's like like she'll like sit there and like stare at me if I like I tried to free shape, like touch, it was literally like 30 minutes of her just like staring into my soul, like not moving, like not moving at all, and I'm like minka, yeah, we gotta come on versus like hawk is like the opposite.
Speaker 2:Like I teach a touch, he'll like ram his muzzle into my hand and I'm like, wait, what? Uh? The session's over. Like where do I go on from here? You know, like I don't. I don't plan a free shaping session, like far enough, with him yeah and then I do like too many reps and he gets frustrated yeah, he's like all right, this is stupid, I'm done like when I taught him to like go around a cone, I was expecting like like free shaping.
Speaker 2:I was gonna put the cone he's gonna go towards it. I was gonna click, come back, pay and like successfully, like you know eventually get to the full picture. First rep runs around the cone. I'm like what the hell? Yeah, like now what you know, and then I my session drags out too long versus like I should just put them up sooner. But I've learned this now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's like very different, very different dogs. But Hawk was from like a good breeder, right yeah, like a sport breeder.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but then again it's interesting too, because he's like IGP lines and now he's doing PSA, but yeah, gp lines and now he's doing psa. But yeah, all that to say I think you know a good dog is like where you find it?
Speaker 1:because you know there are also people who do really well in sports that have like rescue dogs.
Speaker 2:Yeah there's a like hazel the bully. Uh, she's like from craigslist, she's in the threes and psa, yeah, um, yeah, I mean there's a bunch of people. I'm just like that's the first like. She's like from Craigslist, she's in the threes in PSA, yeah yeah, I mean there's a bunch of people. I'm just like that's the first like Instagram name that comes to mind. But you see a lot of rescue dogs like really excel, that are like in the upper levels of sport.
Speaker 1:I would love, I would love for Muffin to pull up and do really well.
Speaker 2:Show all them haters yeah.
Speaker 1:I would love that so much. That was hilarious. Oscar yesterday was like what if this freaking backyard bread puppy does better than all of ours? And I was like, oh my gosh, I would love that. I would love that so much. But who knows, and that's kind of the thing is like we really don't know. Like we idea I'm going to do my best to build her. I'm very, very like we are. We're truly working with, like some of the best people, so we're in a good place to build a dog?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because that's the thing too. There's genetics, but then there's also the training that can override the genetics. Like we've talked to a couple of people also that say, like they've built their dog to, they like gaslit their dog and are thinking they're super confident, so that's, you know, also not an option. And then you have a dog that, like you actually have a bond and a team with, not saying that it's not possible if like a more confident dog, but it's different yeah, yeah, but I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's very interesting the the internet's take of the puppies as well too, because to say that you know my puppy shouldn't be alive is kind of like a crazy thing and it's coming from people who are like self-proclaimed like dog lovers. You know it's. It's there's like these two camps of people. There's the people who are like save all the dogs, and then there are the people who are like save all the dogs. And then there are the people who are like if your dog is not from a good breeder, like you're the problem. You know, and I think it's very easy to say when it when you're like on the outside, but when you do rescue a dog, you know like you have a personal relationship with that dog.
Speaker 1:I love River, you a dog. You know like you have a personal relationship with that dog. I love river. Like every time river gets to like experience something cool, like the video that you sent of him like in the water and he's just like standing in the water and he like drinks the water and it's like this gorgeous backdrop of like the lake in arizona.
Speaker 2:I'm like river didn't, wasn't supposed to experience this yeah, he's like a year and a half and he had no life experience and now he's getting to travel.
Speaker 1:Like he was going to die.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he was on the useless list, probably just for being sick, to be honest, because he doesn't really have any issues, he's a good dog.
Speaker 1:I am River's biggest fan. Like he's just the best boy. Like I've never just like gotten a dog that has like no issues. I mean, I guess like his thing in the beginning was just like dragging on leash, like that was a bit crazy and we didn't really know him. So we didn't want to just like correct him, yeah, correct him and then him redirect or anything, but like I don't think he would ever redirect on us, I don't think he would.
Speaker 2:You can grab us, I don't think he would.
Speaker 1:You can grab his paws, you can grab his toes, you can shove your finger in his ears and he's just like, like he's genuinely just so happy to be alive yeah, he doesn't have a mean bone in his body and, like he's a good example of huge, he's like this huge malinois and people are like, wow, that's a nice looking dog, you know, and it's like his brain is just like a can of beans yeah, he's like a perfect deterrent, like personal protection dog.
Speaker 2:You know, he doesn't even need to do anything, he's just his presence.
Speaker 1:Yeah he like has an aura to him. But I don't know, it's tough because the people on the internet, like they aren't rescuing dogs, you know, because they don't like believe in that, but like, if you met river, or like if you met rescue dogs that are like living their best lives, like how could you ever tell me that, like river should not be alive, you know? Or that, like these puppies, like hey, they are alive, you know? So are you saying that like, oh, I'm unethical because I should just euthanize them at eight weeks old because they're backyard bred?
Speaker 2:like that's crazy, like that is absolutely crazy I mean, I think we definitely like, shouldn't support, like backyard breeding practices that actually no like you shouldn't go buy a dog off of craigslist.
Speaker 1:You shouldn't go, you know, like buy a dog at a puppy store.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but then on the flip side, these same puppies are the one that end up in the shelter. So I mean I get it. It's kind of like this yeah, I mean this topic.
Speaker 1:I get why they're anti, you know whatever, but at the end of the day, like they are alive, they are here and like they are gonna need homes yeah you know, I don't think we should be supporting backyard breeders. It's not like we are. It's not like we like bought these puppies, but I don't know.
Speaker 2:I mean, they're on this earth, so might as well give them a shot. Yeah, like it's, it's it's crazy for people to be like your dog shouldn't be alive and it's like okay, I think that comes from a place of like detachment, like being online, like no one would tell you that to your face, I know no one would like meet my puppy and be like, oh you should have this dog, should have been euthanized like that's a crazy thing to say.
Speaker 1:It's just kind of like the internet warriors who feel very strongly. But like anytime I see like a dog post of like. I just saw a post today of like this girl who the girl in mexico? She posted that she has a litter of puppies and she was like I hate everybody who's ever bought a dog from a breeder Like why would you ever buy a dog from a breeder when there are so many amazing rescue dogs out there? And I love mutts and I'm like, hey, I totally get that. Like, I get that because your reality is that you have a litter of puppies that you can't find homes for and that breaks your heart. You know can't find homes for and that breaks your heart, you know. Yeah. But on the other side of that, we see what happens when people rescue dogs with poor genetics and they literally get mauled. We were just talking about this yesterday that dude who got mauled by his dog yeah, no, for sure like that dog needs to be behaviorally euthanized.
Speaker 1:If a dog is unsafe, you know like that's. The other problem is it's like okay, so if we're just gonna rescue dogs like, we need to rescue safe dogs yeah we need to rescue safe dogs that aren't gonna hurt people, that aren't gonna be like dangerous in society, and that is the argument against. You know, backyard breeders and like I don't know if these puppies like ended up somewhere else, like they might be that you know, like they are malinois yeah, no, for sure river too, like we don't really know river's backstory, but like maybe in a different scenario he would use aggression and this would be a giant malinois using aggression.
Speaker 1:I don't think so. I don't think he has like a mean bone in his body. He's just. He's so funny. He's literally just like a little puppy trapped in this like big dog body but he's like a.
Speaker 2:He's a like a prey monster, because yeah you can like, because we did a little bit of bite work and like he like bites like a just totally play, right. But he he'll bite like a tug and I can like grab his cheeks and stuff and there's like no thoughts in his mind that he's gonna like redirect, redirect, you know, versus like with hawk. I'm like I trust river that I've known for way less. I trust him way more, you know. Yeah, it's just a different kind of dog yeah, very much, but it's I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's very interesting, like it's interesting, to see the public's perception on these dogs. You know, and I have four personal dogs now um, two of which are from breeders, two of which are not. Lucy is not from a breeder. I did the irresponsible thing and got her off of craigslist but I just I genuinely didn't know any better. Um, I don't necessarily think that she was like this poorly bred, like backyard bred dog, like they were breeding field line goldens, but I don't think that they were doing any like health testing or you know that's another good element we didn't really touch upon.
Speaker 2:But health testing, that's for sure. Um, you know, you don't really know, yeah, that was a.
Speaker 1:That was probably the. The biggest thing to make me hesitate taking these puppies is the health testing part of it, because it's like, okay, yeah, we can take these puppies, but like if they have health issues, like that's gonna really suck yeah you know, but I just kind of I think it's worth it to take them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, like at the end of the day, like we do have the means to be able to like take care of a dog with health issues. You know, like that wouldn't be ideal, especially if I want to do sports with her, but I wouldn't just like abandon her you know for sure and maybe like somebody else would.
Speaker 2:So because, technically, like a good breeder you know would do health testings hips, elbows, eyes, whatever, um, like genetic predispositions that particular breed has.
Speaker 1:A good breeder would like make sure that the parents don't have those problems yeah, and one of our um, uh, one of our clients that we're doing like train and adventure, board and train with, we were supposed to take the puppy and then they took the puppy to the vet. The puppy had a heart murmur and they were like, hey, like this is kind of like changing things. They reached out to the breeder and they the breeder took the puppy back, like Like that's a good breeder, for sure, you know, that's a good breeder, a breeder who you know, takes dogs back if they can't.
Speaker 2:They have like responsibility.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah for sure. And that's part of why we, you know, support good breeding is because that dog not that these people would do that, because I know that they wouldn't but in another home, you know that dog might be dumped at a shelter. Yeah, you know, and then that is why dogs end up in shelters. It's not the dogs that are coming from good breeders that end up in shelters.
Speaker 2:Oh, and that's why people like you know hate on backyard bred dogs so much yeah, and I get it.
Speaker 1:I, I get it, you know. But it's like, bro, this is my puppy and it's alive. And it's not like I went out and, like you know, bought this puppy from a puppy store or a backyard breeder. It's not like I'm like, hey, everyone go get a backyard bred malinois. It's like these puppies almost didn't have a life and now they do, you know.
Speaker 2:So, like let's give them the best life possible and also like we went to go check them out twice before getting them right. Like, yes, people in our like club like kind of tried to push us to get like this like super drivey dog, you know yeah, and you're like fuck that I don't want that.
Speaker 2:You know, like um, we have another club member right now who has a puppy and it's turning out to be like this little demon you know, and we're just watching from afar, like, yeah, like you don't want that, you know, like I don't want that, but I think she's fine with that yeah I think right now she's like oh my gosh yeah like right now. It's a lot, it's a lot.
Speaker 1:But, like you know, she got the dog from that breeder because like she wants that type of dog, like I do not want that type of dog and it's her second dog from the same breeder and the first one was more chill.
Speaker 2:So now you get the second one.
Speaker 1:You're like god damn yeah, like we even spent the the weekend with shane for the psa trial, which we're gonna do a podcast talking about the trial, because I know a lot of you have reached out like asking what, how it went and like how it works and all of this stuff. I feel like the sport world is kind of intimidating to get into. So we reached out to everybody. We're gonna do a podcast with, like me, you, shane, roel, oscar, celine all talking about like trial experience.
Speaker 2:So hopefully that'll be on next week's episode, but anyways, we wouldn't include Chris, but he's gone on his world tour.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Chris. Chris is not here right now.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Maybe he'll be. No, he's not going to be here next week. He's gone. He gone, yeah. So, anyways, we got to spend time with like Shane we like parked outside his Airbnb in Arizona and he has all of his dogs running and I was like I do not want this. This is way too much. They're just intense. Not Zeus, but the bull herders. The bull herders are a lot. I'm like I do not want that.
Speaker 2:It's also what I want in my next puppy, so that's why I'm holding off.
Speaker 1:we'll have that's what shane wants, for sure. You know that's what shane wants and like go for him. I'm like, no, I like, I like my golden retrievers, and minka is like such a little little baby muffin you know leads into.
Speaker 2:I think Muffin is perfect for you. She's a little more drivey than Minka was as a puppy, and I think you'll have tons of fun with her and at the end of the day, that's all that matters.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I just want to give her a good life, like it's not like I'm going to like get rid of her if she sucks at sports.
Speaker 2:You know, like my priority is not sports at sports you know, like my priority is not sports, my priority is like giving my dogs a good life. Yeah, and I think she'll integrate your pack like just fine, which is for you like super important. You know, and honestly, like I I said that like if it's not for me, but the truth is like I just can't with my dogs. But it would be nice to be able to have dogs that can interact, like all of shane's males get along yeah, but he is very big on like setting boundaries with them and he's gotten them as puppies, which I think is huge.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's definitely value in getting them as puppies like walter, did not grow up with other dogs no, he's a. He was a single household dog and then he just, I think, even like his, like genetics, as like a shepherd, like he's kind of an asshole, um shepherds are not.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't know, I think it's different if you raise them with other dogs, but I feel like they're not super social, like they're always just like the police well, he was like a lot better like I when he was younger and he like wasn't fully mature.
Speaker 2:He was like a lot better with puppies, but now he's even like he's. He's growling at the puppies through the crate, like I mean, come on like yeah they're like six weeks old buddy, like yeah, so you know he's the problem. And then you put two intact males together and it's just a recipe for disaster.
Speaker 1:So anyways yeah, but hawk gets along with all of my dogs like we can. They all love hawk. Yeah, they love hawk no, he's very social.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's very social, actually a lot better which? Also, I think, is a good indicator of like his intelligence yeah, because he reads like body language, like he'll back off the moment. Like you know, yes, he gets told to by a dog versus walter will just start a fight and he doesn. He doesn't with your dogs because they don't. I mean, I guess they like fear him a little.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my dogs are scared of Walter. Walter comes out and they all just like tail tuck and they like freeze.
Speaker 2:You know, they're like oh God the cop is here the police.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But yeah, all that to say, I think it's really nice to have dogs that get along as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think they'll integrate well. I'm also kind of seeing how lucy is like taking a step back from being the bossy girl and minka is kind of stepping up, but I don't really think that minka wants to she's just next in line so do you. I think what's gonna happen is, I think minka is gonna kind of be quote in charge of the group for the next year to year and a half and I think gonna take over very quickly.
Speaker 2:Muffin is going to take over yeah, I could see that For sure.
Speaker 1:Because Minka is not like a leader of the pack kind of dog.
Speaker 1:You know Minka is like very, very handler focused. You know like she's like I'll do whatever you want, like focused on me. She doesn't really care too much about the other dogs, whereas Lucy Lucy's like eight years old now but you know, in in her prime she was always the front, she was always the bossy one, she was always the one who was kind of like leading the way for everybody. She's a really good puppy raiser and now with muffin I feel like she's kind of like oh my gosh get this puppy?
Speaker 1:yeah, she's like I'm tired, I don't feel like raising this puppy. You know, nobody wants to like correct her because they're like, and then zoe like never corrects puppies and they're just like biting her tail and zoe's like running away, like dragging these little puppies behind. I'm like, oh, zoe.
Speaker 2:Building some confident little buggers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Zoe's funny with the puppies.
Speaker 2:They're literally swinging off her tail. She's like running away, yeah yeah, no, she's good.
Speaker 1:She's laying on the floor in the van right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Anything else as puppy updates. Life in the van with puppies it has not. It's honestly not that bad no, we got.
Speaker 2:We got them. Um, they're both in separate like little crates. Um waking up early, I think that muffins actually the dirtier one of the two, I would say right now, for sure um, but yeah, so they still have a little bit of uh you know, accidents in the crate, but we're working on it. Yeah, we're working on it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're working on potty training them. They don't like to be dirty, which is good, so if they do poop on themselves, they're like you know, like screaming bloody murder, which I like. I don't want a puppy, who's just fine sitting in there pooping pee. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And as soon as you take them out, you say go potty. And they go potty outside. Yeah, so we're on a good routine, feeding them a bunch every time they go back in the crate and whatnot, and yeah. I'm excited for Kalani to get her puppy because I'm hyped for her, but I'm also excited to have one less puppy, just one puppy. And then we can focus more on actually training her. We've started taking them out separately, which is important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but on like actually training her, like we've started like taking them out separately, which?
Speaker 2:is important, yeah, but I think I really want to start luring her more, yeah no for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, I guess I don't know one thing that I kind of wish I didn't do as much of with minka, which I see some sport trainers who are like you should lure for like the first year and a half, and that's kind of like what I did with minka. But I feel like that's part of the reason why she has no thoughts and no brain is because she's like I'll just follow the hand.
Speaker 1:You know, there's no like thinking yeah so I think with muffin I'm gonna try to fade out the lure as fast as I can that's what oscar does like you see, it very early on yeah, and his dogs look nice. So yeah, and I feel like they're good at thinking yeah he makes his dogs good at thinking like he makes them think you know, I didn't really make minka think.
Speaker 1:I kind of like babied her a little bit and now she's like I'm just a baby and he's like girl, you're three years old, we gotta do a stand. She's like I've never done a stand in my life. How long have I been working on stand with her?
Speaker 2:at least a month, maybe two yesterday was the first time she did a stand without any guidance, like that's crazy.
Speaker 1:Minka Inca that's good, oh my gosh. We love her though. Okay, so updates for us. We are moving into April. If you're listening to this podcast in a timely manner, we are moving into April. We have a spot open for adventure board and train. I guess I really haven't discussed this with you, but kind of what I was planning is that we go to northern california for this one yeah, I'm down yeah I'm easy yeah
Speaker 1:let's do it okay, so we have a spot open for adventure board and trains. We're gonna hit like yosemite northern california.
Speaker 2:We haven't actually been to yosemite I don't know what that's gonna look like with dogs yeah, maybe we can't actually go to like national parks, but that general area yeah, around there and then more in the woods, it'll be a little cooler a little cooler.
Speaker 1:Hopefully, hopefully I will survive winter. We will see winter again. We've been in southern california. I.
Speaker 2:She ain't made for the cold.
Speaker 1:I am not made for the cold, but all of that info is on the website. So if you click on work with me, adventure Board and Trains is part of that, so you can click on that and schedule a call to chat with me to see if that's a good fit for you. I'll be in San Diego this coming week doing lessons. So if you are my san diego people or you want to book lessons with me, I'll be here and then we're heading up to the bay area here very soon to take kaylani, her puppy, and I. What trialing again yeah, we're gonna.
Speaker 2:We're gonna try again to get that pdc, because it didn't go well. But we'll talk about that on the next podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everybody's going up to the Bay Area to trial again. More sports, more doggy sports, All right y'all. I think that's it. I think that's all my updates. You got anything else to say?
Speaker 2:That's a wrap.
Speaker 1:No, all right. Thank you all for being here and listening to us Yap on about dogs. We'll see you next time.