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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Power of Following Your Lead: Understanding Dog Drive States
Dog trainers often talk about "drivey" dogs, but understanding drive states is key to effective training and fundamentally changes how we approach common behavioral issues.
• Drive states are innate biological impulses that motivate behavior in dogs
• Pack drive (following the leader) is the most valuable drive for behavioral modification
• Walking drills build pack drive by teaching dogs to follow your lead
• Defense drive manifests when dogs feel threatened and may result in aggression
• Prey drive involves the instinct to chase and is activated during food/toy focused training
• Most dogs don't want to be "front of the pack" – they prefer following a confident leader
• Training exclusively with food/toys (prey drive) explains why dogs may only listen when rewards are visible
• Dogs cannot be in multiple drive states simultaneously – use this strategically for behavior modification
• Structure around doorways, crates, and walks is essential for establishing leadership
• Walking drills should be emphasized before moving to obedience/active training sessions
Our next round of the virtual shadow program for aspiring dog trainers starts on the 26th. Check the website link to learn more.
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Hello, hello, and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. Today we are talking about drive states. So you've probably heard dog trainers talk about oh, that's a drivey dog, or you know that dog has a lot of drive. But what the heck does that mean and why is it relevant in dog training? So we're going to get into it. I did a deep dive for this episode, so you know the drill Grab yourself a tasty drink and meet me back here. Hello, hello, friends, welcome back. We are currently recording this podcast episode in Toma's van. He will not be joining me on this episode. He's chilling in the van. He got off podcast duty tonight Very lucky, but he's learning in the van. He got off podcast duty tonight very lucky, but he's learning all of the drive state stuff while I kind of share it with you guys.
Speaker 1:So I have been once again having a bit of, like a dog trainer existential crisis. I have these every now and then and I feel like, honestly, they're very important because it means that I'm like learning and growing as a dog trainer. I'm questioning the things that I thought that I knew or that I'm learning from other people. I'm kind of you know, I'm going through, going through, going through, going through it, you know, you know how it goes. Dog training is just one of those things where you're forever a student, and if you think that you're not going to be forever a student, you're probably not a very good dog trainer, right? So I've been doing this for about seven years now, and over that time my methods have always kind of changed and evolved, with new information that I learn and I always share that with you guys. I have recorded this podcast since the inception of my dog training business, so you've got, you know, a front row seat to watching that evolution. And you guys know that I'll always say like, oh yeah, I used to do that, but don't really do any, don't do that anymore, like that was kind of dumb, or I'm always very honest with you about things that I no longer do or have started doing, or you know all that stuff.
Speaker 1:So recently I've been spending a lot of time in the sport world. I'm around all the sporty trainers, I that is not my background, ok, I did not get started in dog training through dog sports. I came from it as I started off as a pet dog trainer and then I got my Malinois and so then I got more into the protection sport world where you know, I've met all of these amazing trainers who trained very differently from how I've been training my pet clients. And while I'm going through this, I'm starting to kind of question everything that I've done over the past, however many years that I've been doing this of like I'm not I'm not training dogs how everybody else is training dogs and why is that? And we have two board and trains right now. I haven't had a board and train in a while and it's really made me, I don't know. It's been really good for me because I haven't had a board and train since I got really into the sport training. So, if you guys don't know, toma and I have been doing a lot of sport training because he has been trialing his Malinois Hawk. So over the past I don't know five months we've been really consistent with like training for sport twice a week.
Speaker 1:In my eyes, sport training and behavioral modification, which is what most people need help with with their pets, looks very different, and so for me, sport training is I'm not great at it Like it is completely different than anything that I've ever done. I've trained a ton of dogs but my specialty has always kind of been like the reactive, the aggressive, the, you know, super fearful, shut down dogs, and my knowledge in working those dogs, through their big feelings and their issues is completely different than what it looks like to build up a sport dog completely different than what it looks like to build up a sport dog. So I have these two board and trains in and it's been really cool because I've been able to really see my training through a different lens, because prior, when I was in Florida, I was not super involved in the sport training and I was not surrounded by all of these like amazing trainers. I was simply going off of the dogs in front of me and that's something that I encourage new trainers a lot is you're gonna learn the most from the dogs in front of you and what you're observing from them. You can, you know, study until you're blue in the face, but the best teachers are going to be the dogs. So we got these two dogs. They're very, very different.
Speaker 1:We have Duke, who is about a six month old, just copy cake German Shepherd. He is what everybody needs to get if they want a German Shepherd. He is like he actually reminds me a lot of Millie, my previous Golden. She just had puppies, by the way, but just kind of like derpy, happy-go-lucky, just like happy-to-be-here kind of guy, not your typical like high drive there's that word working line shepherd and then we have Mayan. Mayan is a German Shepherd Malinois mix, german Shepherd Malinois mix, and Mayan is he's a little sketchy. He definitely has it in him. He's willing to bite, but it's really coming from a place of fear. Like he's not. He's not a forward aggressive dog, literally at all. I think he just hasn't had too much structure in his life and he's just, he's just a backyard bred guy, like probably doesn't have the most stable genetics, you know.
Speaker 1:So I got these dogs in for training and the first couple of days I'm like, oh, we're going to, we're going to train, right, I have all of this newfound information like we like, oh, we're going to, we're going to train, right, I have all of this newfound information. Like we're going to start, we're going to start going through all these training sessions. Well, we take Duke out. Duke is not food motivated at all, he doesn't care, he's like you know, whatever, won't even take a piece of freeze dried raw from our, from our hands. I'm like all right, cool, so we definitely need to work on, you know, building up your food drive, right, um, and then I get Mayan. All right, mayan is very uncomfy with me being in his space, me holding my hand above his head with a piece of kibble in it, like this is not the type of dog where I'm just going to start off with these, you know, active training sessions.
Speaker 1:So what do I do? What am I left with? Left with? And it's kind of brought me back to my foundations and what I've always done in dog training and I'm like why am I going back to this? Why am I going back to how I was training dogs when now I have all of this newfound knowledge in dog training, like what is happening here? So that led me to kind of question what are we actually doing when we're doing these? Quote, active training sessions. I talk about this quite a lot, but I'll go ahead and explain For me.
Speaker 1:I like to divide my training sessions into two different types of sessions. So I have an active session and I have a passive session. So an active session is going to be short and sweet, no more than five minutes long, high energy, fast paced. Fast paced we're typically using food tug. This is where I'm running through my obedience, my marker words, all that jazz. Okay, so that is when I'm like teaching a new skill.
Speaker 1:That is what everybody thinks of when they think of dog training. Right, how obedient is my dog? Do I have a? Do I have a fancy heel? It's. It's kind of funny because Toma has all of the fancy obedience with his dog, hawk and everybody's like, oh man, I want that. I, I want a dog that has a super fancy heel and he's great for like those five minutes while we're in those active sessions. But nobody wants the level of drive that Hawk has because he's not just like a chill in the house type of dog, like he's just not that type of dog. So everybody looks at a dog like Hawk and is like, oh, I want that. I want that type of obedience where I'm like I want the cuppy cake dog who's going to lay on the floor all day, who, like doesn't have any drive, like Duke. I think he's literally the best and he has zero drive. So I've been kind of questioning like shit, what, what is going on for, you know, the first week where I don't have a dog that's going to take food. I don't have a dog that wants to work with me. I have a dog who's sketched out by me. I have a dog who is, yes, running through the motions of their obedience commands, but they're not really tuned into me, like why is that happening? So that is what led me down the rabbit hole of drive states in dogs is I went back to what I was doing, which is walking drills, teaching the dog leash pressure, teaching the dog to follow my lead, and I feel like I get so much more success in the training when we emphasize that over obedience.
Speaker 1:If you know me, you know I'm an obedience hater. I hate teaching obedience. I think it's monotonous, I think it's boring, I think it's transactional. I'm the worst. I think it's monotonous, I think it's boring, I think it's transactional. I'm the worst. I'm literally the worst. I'll do it, but I don't love it.
Speaker 1:So we're taking these dogs out and I'm walking Toma through how we do these walking drills. So if you've never seen me do these walking drills before, I'll explain it. Essentially, we always start with a slip lead. I like to walk the dogs on the left hand side, so the bulk of my leash is going to be in my right hand. My left hand is going to act as kind of a pulley. So the tension on the leash is my communication to the dog. That is my direct line of communication. That is how I'm sharing my vibes right. My energy is through that leash and that is something that I really really try to emphasize with everybody that I work with. How you hold the leash matters Like the tension changes in your leash matter. That is literally everything the pressure on the pressure off of the leash. So our left hand is acting as the pulley.
Speaker 1:We're going to walk, walk, walk forward. Eventually the dog is going to leave you behind, so they're just going to walk out in front. When that happens, I know that that dog is not checked in with me, because I could stop walking and they would just keep on moving forward, going to turn over my right shoulder, and we're going to walk in a straight line back the other way and we're going to keep doing this until the dog gets a little bit out in front of you and then he's going to check back and look in with you because he's going to be like, hmm, when I get too far out in front, this lady changes directions on me, so I better tune into her, I better check into her, and that is what I want from the dogs. So it doesn't matter if you have a dog who is taking food from you or, you know, is high drive. I want a dog to check in with me. And this is completely different from building up a sport dog, right, Like, yes, we want them to check in with us, but it's a completely different state of mind, like those dogs are truly in a high prey drive state whenever we're doing that fancy obedience stuff With behavioral mod dogs. That's not really what we want. We want a dog that is tuned into us, that is checked into us, that is just following our lead. So what the heck is that? What is that and why does it work so well?
Speaker 1:When it comes to training dogs, I have done this for so long that I kind of got to the point where I was like I don't even want to do obedience, because when people come to me with their dogs, it's typically my dog is super reactive. I can't walk them anywhere. My dog is, you know, doing X behavior. Please help, how do I solve that? I don't solve that by teaching the dog obedience and putting them into command all the time. That's not teaching the dog, that's telling the dog. So how do I teach a dog to make better decisions? Well, I get them into pack drive, and this is what kind of led me down my rabbit hole.
Speaker 1:So pack drive is the dog's drive to want to be a part of a group, and this goes into we'll break down the drive states here in a second but there's essentially self-preservation and preservation of the species. These are categories of our drive states. So for the preservation of the species, it's favorable that dogs are participating in society as a group. So what am I doing whenever I'm doing these walking drills with dogs and why does it work so well? So pack drive, in my opinion, is the most valuable drive whenever it comes to training our dogs.
Speaker 1:Having a dog that looks to you for guidance and is happy to follow your lead is necessary in order to overcome behavioral issues. So for a dog like Mayan, who is using aggression as a way to create space, as a way to create space, I need to teach him. Hey, you have made some really bad decisions. Okay, I'm going to take your decision-making ability away from you and the only thing that I want you to do is follow my lead. That is literally it. All I ask of you is that you follow my lead. You don't have to do literally anything else. And the thing about pack drive is it's kind of the easiest drive. It's the least stressful drive state for dogs. We're not asking them to go into prey drive, we're not asking them to go into defense. I'm simply asking you to exist with me, to tune in with me, to just be with me, and you will make better decisions because you are not in a state where you think that it's your job to make decisions. And the thing about pack drive is most dogs don't want to be the leader, because the leader comes with added responsibility and added decision making and not very many dogs are confident enough, are truly confident enough, to fill that role. They're simply filling that role because nobody else has Go back to Mayan, for example.
Speaker 1:He doesn't have a lot of structure in the house. He is a insecure, fearful dog and so he has learned that no one's going to look out for him. He has to look out for himself. But if we were to implement a crate routine and more structure in the house, more structure on our walk, I'm gonna say less active training sessions with him, then I think he's going to enjoy that more, because he doesn't want to make his own decisions, he wants to follow the leader. He's not a like.
Speaker 1:I've heard people say like front of the pack dog, right. Like he's not a dog who's going to lead the way. Say like front of the pack dog, right. Like he's not a dog who's going to lead the way. And you know, this is another thing that I've observed in my years is I'm very big on group things with dogs and not a lot of trainers do that and I, I don't know. I was always like why. You know, if to me that is the most valuable part of any part of any training program that I do, is that group work with the dogs. It's like having a classroom of kids, right, versus doing one-on-one tutoring, like you're going to see an entirely different kid in a group setting amongst like a bunch of different personalities versus, you know, just a one-on-one setting, like it's a completely different thing.
Speaker 1:And so there are dogs who are happy to lead the way. For example, in just my pack, lucy is. She is my front of the pack dog. She will always be the front of the pack dog. No one goes ahead of Lucy, like it just doesn't happen. I haven't had a dog in for training that goes in front of Lucy, like she is very much a dominant female. She wants to be at the front, she wants to make decisions, she wants to lead the way. Zoe, on the other hand, is happy to be at the back. She doesn't want to make decisions, she literally just wants to follow the group, that's it, that's all she wants to do. So when we get our dogs, they have their you know genetics, how they're raised. We have that, and just their individual personalities are going to determine kind of where they're at in that group. And most dogs are going to fit into. They need to just follow somebody. And so pack drive teaching a dog to follow our lead is the most important thing in overcoming behavioral issues. So, with all that being said, let's get into the different drive states. I have my notes in front of me because it's kind of a lot. It's kind of a lot, okay.
Speaker 1:So let's define what drive is. Drive is innate biological impulses that motivate behavior. So let's think about prey drive. Prey drive is your dog wanting to chase that squirrel? Right, you didn't teach your dog to chase the squirrel. Your dog has never taught the squirrel. What about that? Why does your dog just know what to do? Well, it's innate. It's an innate behavior that's required for survival for your dog. So there are two primary categories of drive. There's self-preservation drives. This is focused on the individual's survival. And we have preservation of the species drives, so this focuses on the continuation of the species. So, while all dogs possess these drives, the intensity and expression can vary based on breed genetics and individual temperament.
Speaker 1:So let's go ahead and get into our first one, which is prey drive. So this is the instinct to chase, capture and kill. Prey Chasing squirrels. Maybe a flirt pole, you know, those sticks with like a leather rag. Why is that so good at motivating dogs and getting them to play and engage with you? It's because we're tapping into prey drive. So whenever we're playing with our dogs, we're playing fetch, we're playing tug, we're, you know, chasing, even luring our dogs. That is all in prey drive. So so prey drive can be an excellent tool in teaching behaviors.
Speaker 1:But something that happens a lot is people will come to me and say Meg, my dog does so well when I have food, my dog listens so well when I have my treat pouch on or when I have a piece of food in my hand, but they just do not listen when I don't have these things. I think part of that is in our use of marker words and our visual cues that indicate that we're about to reward our dogs, cues that indicate that we're about to reward our dogs. But another part that I think influences this is you're practicing certain behaviors in a specific drive state and when your dog is no longer in that drive state it's like a completely different picture. So, yeah, my dog does great when I have a piece of food in my hand and I can lure her, but then as soon as I put the food away, she literally has no brain and she cannot think. And it's because I've never practiced those behaviors out of prey drive, if that makes sense. Out of prey drive, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1:So our next one is defense drive. So this is the instinct to protect oneself or territory. I think Mayan is a perfect example of this. He's not what I would consider like a highly defensive dog. I think he is a very low defensive dog, but when we take away his ability to run away, to flee, which is like part of defense, he uses aggression. Like part of defense, he uses aggression. So I think if Mayan were off leash he would just run away from situations, he wouldn't use aggression. Or maybe he's learned that he's not allowed to run away. So, okay, now I'm going to resort to aggression to create space.
Speaker 1:So Mayan is in defense drive sometimes, like, for example, when I approach his crate. The first couple days he did not, he did not like that. So I would walk up to him barking at me. What would I do? I would grab some treats, drop some treats in. So I'm actually utilizing switching drive states to mitigate the crate reactivity behavior, because those two cannot exist at the same time. Right, he's not going to be able to take food to eat to quote, you know, kill prey while he's in defense. Those are two different drive states. So that's how we, as our dog's owners and trainers, can utilize different drive states to increase or decrease the likelihood of behaviors happening. So now when I approach his crate, he goes into prey. He starts looking on the ground of his crate because I've walked up, dropped food in every single time and you know what that does it prevents him from going into defense. So I'm teaching him some alternative behaviors by switching his drive states.
Speaker 1:So defensive drive could look like barking at strangers, guarding behavior. This is for that preservation of the individual. So this is self-preservation drive is going to be our defense drive, right, because that's not really helping the species, that's helping you as the individual survive. So our next one is sex drive, which we're not really going to get into, but that's just the instincts to reproduce. Reproduce, you might see. You know this influence behavior, especially in intact dogs, but I don't think that it's particularly relevant to us. Some things that you might see, though, is like a dog leaving. I know Lucy, whenever she goes into heat, like she wants to run away, mounting and sometimes aggression, but I don't necessarily like the. You know, just because a male is unfixed that he's going to become aggressive. It basically just means, like dogs that are in sex drive can use aggression to like fight over mates, right? We're not really going to see that too much in our pet training.
Speaker 1:So now we get into pack drive. So this is the instinct to be a part of a social group. We see this as seeking companionship, following the owner, desire to be involved in family activities. So this is extremely important in building that bond between you and your dog or you and the dogs that you train. Because, like I said, sometimes we get dogs that are not food motivated. We cannot get them into prey. Prey is not enough to to, it's not enough of like an intrinsic reward for that dog. Pack drive, however, goes into that. Survival of the species right, it's beneficial for dogs to have pack drive because that's going to continue. The species Dogs that get along together are going to reproduce. Dogs that get along together are going to, in the wild world, hunt together, get more food together. They're not going to be preyed upon by other things because they're in a group. There's so much benefit to tapping into Pack Drive. So how do we tap into this Pack Drive as dog owners?
Speaker 1:I think the first thing that is the most important is how we communicate with our dogs via the leash. Dogs are not humans. They do not communicate like humans, and so our leash is kind of our doggy translator, and the reason that I'm kind of emphasizing that so much right now is I have been teaching Toma this. Toma is very good at the sport handling, but this is a completely different skill to be able to like, tap in and tune into dogs via these walking drills in the leash. So I've been teaching him. We also have Danielle in San Diego.
Speaker 1:We recently had Oso. If you guys have seen my videos of Oso, he's the little Travern puppy that we've been helping, you know, raise and train. But he boarded with us a couple weeks ago and so I'm training Danielle new trainer in San Diego, and she is also a very good sport handler, like she does sports with her dogs. She has a lot of experience working with rescue dogs as well. But something that I was emphasizing to her is the boring walking drill sessions, because Oso has gotten to the age where he's like yeah, I'm more than happy to do anything that you want when it's on my terms and when you have a reward for me, but the second that I see that there's not a reward, I'm not going to do it. He's kind of in that like bratty teenager phase, right, and so I'm like, okay, we've been doing. Pretty much all of our sessions with Oso have revolved around food and if you're part of my community you may have seen my videos of Oso, but one of our first sessions is actually a perfect example of switching between drives.
Speaker 1:So Oso was scared of the world when he was a puppy. He didn't want to walk out of the driveway and they couldn't get him to follow them Like they. You could drag him like, he just didn't want to walk. So one of the things that I did was I grabbed a piece of food and I rolled it on the ground in front of him. So what am I doing there? I'm tapping into prey drive because he does not have pack drive yet in that moment. He doesn't have high pack drive. He would rather run away back home when he gets scared, he doesn't care so much about staying with us. So okay, I don't have a dog that has high pack drive.
Speaker 1:How do I motivate this dog to walk down the street and get out of this driveway? I'm going to tap into prey drive. So I grab my piece of food, I toss it on the ground. That triggers his prey response. He chases after the food, he grabs the food. So that's what we do. We walk down the sidewalk and I toss a piece of food. He goes into prey. He chases the food, he grabs the food. Now I want to work on our pack drive.
Speaker 1:So the last time that he was with us, me and Danielle had probably a 30 minute, maybe longer than that, walking drill session with him. And this kind of goes against like what you might hear from most dog trainers, which is like your session should be short, sweet, like that's it. Those are those active training sessions where we're only in prey. But I need a dog that is motivated to follow me and also at his age and just like who he is. He is not there, like he does not have pack drive, so we need to build that up a little bit. So walking drills, we're doing figure eights, we're doing about turns.
Speaker 1:He does great for like the first five minutes and then he's like, okay, this sucks, there's nothing in it for me, I'm not getting rewarded, I'm not going to do this. What does he start doing? For me, I'm not getting rewarded, I'm not going to do this. What does he start doing? He starts biting on the leash. He starts putting on the brakes, laying down alligator rolling. He doesn't want to do it because we're in a different drive state. We're training a different behavior, a different state of mind in him. He's not used to that. So we keep going, keep doing my walking drills. He grabs my leash, leash pressure goes on. He lets go of the leash. Leash pressure goes off, we continue walking.
Speaker 1:You cannot stop this session through your behaviors. I will not stop. We're going to keep going until I get a little bit of submission from you. I need you to go and just start following my lead. And you see it in these training sessions Like. You see that that switch flip in the dog where they're like all right, we'll do things your way and that's what I want, because that is a dog that is in pack drive. Okay, once you're willing to follow my lead, then I can start to teach you things.
Speaker 1:So recently on my social media I talked about this briefly, which is when I was kind of going down the rabbit hole of all of this. But I was watching another trainer on Instagram and he was demoing his first training session with a dog, and I've seen a million other trainers do the exact same first session. He's not doing anything wrong by any means at all, but the first session was he has his treat. Pouch on, he has the dog. I don't know if he was calling the dog to him or what it was, but he was conditioning his yes marker word. So for us, yes means come back to me, get paid, get your treat, get your tug, get whatever, but reward is on me. So he was conditioning that as his first session. So he has his leash on Dog, walks away a little bit. He calls him back as soon as the dog comes back, yes, then he pays. And he just kept doing this and I was like, hmm, I don't do that. I literally don't do that.
Speaker 1:I think if somebody were like, oh Meg, what's a good first session? I would probably be like, well, you could do this, you could condition your marker words. But it's not actually what I do. What I do is I start with pack drive. I start by putting the slip lead on the dog. We're going to do our walking drills. Let's say I have a dog that can't even walk. Then I'm simply going to stand in one area, the dog's going to hit the end of the leash in one direction and I'm going to move backwards. We're going to do that again. So basically, the dog is going to hit the end of the leash in a circle around me and what's going to happen is eventually they're going to turn and look at me because they're like you're the reason why I can't do what I want to do right now. What do you want? And that's what I want. I want the dog to look at me and be like what is it that you need from me? That's a dog that's looking to me for guidance.
Speaker 1:Most dogs are not like, confident enough dominant enough to genuinely want to make decisions for themselves. They want somebody to tell them what to do and to lead the way and so that they don't have to worry about anything, especially anxious, insecure dogs. And a trend for most owners when they have an anxious, insecure dog is to baby that dog, and I think that's quite possibly the worst thing that you could do. Those types of dogs need leadership. They need somebody to lead the way. Hey, even though you don't want to do these walking drills, I know you, oh so, and I know that you're actually not that confident, so you don't need to be making your own decisions. You need to be following my lead. That's literally the only thing that I need you to do. So his owners are doing great.
Speaker 1:He went back home. They were like oh my God, what did you do? This is not our dog, like he's so well behaved. Like what is this? And that's all that is is tapping into that pack drive and communicating through. You know, this walking drill game, this game of follow the leader, of tune into me or I'm going to change directions on you, is how we get a dog who's like, all right, I'll follow your lead, and that is the best type of dog for most people. Most people don't want a super, you know, dominant, forward, confident dog. Most people want a dog that is just a companion and is going to walk nicely with them on leash and, you know, sit at their feet when they're out, you know, sitting on their front porch, like that is a dog that has high pack drive and that's what we want in, you know, companionship in our dogs. So Oso is killing it.
Speaker 1:We made so much progress with Mayan, especially in the last, I would say, two days with him. He's really starting to tune into us and it was a little bit of pushback in the beginning. For sure he does not like being touched right, he doesn't like a whole lot. To be quite honest with you. We kind of have to tiptoe around him a little bit but slowly integrating. You know I'm going to hold you accountable to following my lead. I'm going to give him a little leash pop when he gets a little bit too far out. At first he was like, how dare you? And then he was like okay, I like you, I'll follow your lead and that's what I want. That's what I want whenever I'm, you know, working through behavioral issues in dogs.
Speaker 1:So for me, prey drive or these active sessions typically comes later on in the training. I want to build up a dog's pack drive first, because I want the dog to first. Of all. Pack drive is easier. It's easier to build because we're not really asking anything of the dog. Sometimes using food and training can be too much pressure.
Speaker 1:Sometimes getting a dog in prey drive we run the risk of like over arousal and then it leads into defense right. So if I were to start playing tug with Mayan right now, where we're at in our in our training, I could see it going really well for about 30 seconds and then him get really uncomfy and then him realize like oh, I'm uncomfy defense. So because I don't want him to go into defense, I'm not going to get into prey drive with him just yet. We're just going to hang out in pack drive and the dogs will also tell you which drive states they need to be in, based on their behaviors. So if I were to do that with Mayan and I saw that he was getting stiff, I would go oh okay, we need to go back into pack. So you're getting stiff, let's go. Let's go with me going for a walk. Just follow my lead, no pressure, I'm not going to ask anything of you, I'm not going to face you directly, you know.
Speaker 1:So building a pack drive in the beginning is, you know, the most important, because I want a dog that's looking to me and following my lead but is also the easiest for you. It doesn't require too much skill, just a bit of tuning into your dog on the walk and your leash and not a lot of pressure for you or the dog. So the active sessions that we all love to watch, right, they're fun, they look super cool. That's what people think when they think of dog training is they think of fast paced, fun, obedience session, flashy heel, all that great stuff. But some of the worst dogs that I've met have phenomenal obedience.
Speaker 1:So unless you want, you know, a dog like Hawk that is just like crazy, just existing, but does amazing in his obedience, most people don't want that. Most people want like a chill house dog, like Zoe, or even like Duke. Like Duke is just like such a chill guy, you know he's. He's like a perfect pet, to be quite honest, like he's going to be such a good, such a good pet dog. But even for him we're in the stage of, you know, just follow my lead, he doesn't really want to. He's also in that bratty puppy stage where he's like, no, if you don't, like I don't want to do this, this isn't fun for me and I'm like it's fine, like you're just going to keep doing it. And he's like, oh, I don't really want to, and we're just going to keep doing our walking drills and I'm going to keep being more consistent than him and show him to follow my lead.
Speaker 1:Then, you know, we're moving into our third week of training with Duke. Now I can kind of ramp up these fun active training sessions. So these active sessions are the ones where we're running through our obedience, we're teaching place, we're using our dog mommy voice and, oh my gosh, yay, good job, right? If you're part of my community, you see these active sessions a lot. This is like what I post whenever I'm posting videos of me training my own dogs. But I just want to emphasize that there's so much more to training than these little prey drive sessions, these little prey drive sessions. It's important for us to practice our dog's skills away from food, away from that drive state, so that we can have a dog who just inherently wants to follow our lead and, you know, kind of default into that pack drive. So the beginning of that is our walking drills.
Speaker 1:What are some other ways that we can get our dogs to tune in, check in with us outside of our walk? I think the walk is the best place to do it and that's why I emphasize, you know, going on walks with your dog, but little moments throughout the day. Is your dog allowed to rush out of the crate door or do you have them wait? Do they immediately pull you out the door to go on the walk or do you have them wait at the door and walk with you at heel? What does that look like?
Speaker 1:Leading up to the walk, I've been doing virtual sessions with a woman sweetest person, she has a really difficult dog. Sweetest person, she has a really difficult dog. And the last session that we did you know I've done a lot with her, she knows the things but the last session that we had together I had her have her phone out and I was like all right, I want you to walk me through exactly what your walks look like with your dog. And she was like okay, so the beginning of the walk starts in the apartment. The dog is pulling her to the door. She's like yeah, he just kind of like, pulls me into the door, pulls out the door, pulls over into the elevator. They're in the elevator. Elevator door opens. This dog is ready. If there were a dog right there, he for sure would have attacked the dog Forward out in front of his owner.
Speaker 1:Pulls out of the elevator, pulls out of the apartment complex, pulls her over to the grass where he always goes potty. She said this is just our routine. Okay, then we start walking. We walk over to this spot to go for our walk. Okay, we walk over to that spot. He's zigzagging, he does not care about where she is at at all. Okay. And then we get to the spot where she walks. Okay, now we do our walking drills and hold them accountable.
Speaker 1:Well, he is a very dominant dog. He is one of these dogs who wants to be at the front of the pack, but he makes horrible decisions. He is aggressive with dogs. He is aggressive with people. He has to wear a muzzle inside his apartment complex because of these reasons, and she is allowing him to pull and push her wherever he wants to go. That is not a dog that is looking to her for guidance at all. She can do all the obedience that she wants, but if she doesn't address what the beginning of her walk looks like, which starts in her apartment, then that dog is always going to think that it's his job to lead the way, to make all the decisions, to be that, to be that front of the pack dog to her and, to no fault, to her. She is a very sweet, you know, passive dog, and so in my eyes, a dog like him needs a very strong handler to be able to teach him like hey, you do not call the shots, you do not make the decisions, you have made horrible decisions up until this point. I make all the decisions.
Speaker 1:So if you have a dog like that, what do you do? You know, I got a lot of people who are like Meg, I'm doing the walking drills, but my dog doesn't care. That's where our tools come into play, so that we can hold our dogs accountable to what we've taught them. So, for example, for Duke. We are e-caller training him because he's going to be a big boy and he doesn't really care about the pressure of a slip lead. He's going to pull right against that when he wants to.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to teach you the correct way, which is to just follow my lead with no pressure on the leash. But if you do decide to, you know, go out of your way, get out in front of me, pull off to the side, drag me some other way. I have my tools in place to be able to hold you accountable. That that's not what you're allowed to do. You're a puppy or you're a dog that wants to bite people. You're a dog that doesn't make good decisions. You don't have, I guess, the right to be able to lead the way. You're not able to be a front of the pack dog. So I'm going to make sure that you are following my lead. You are not leading the way, and our tools can help us hold our dogs accountable. To that, my training.
Speaker 1:But what is the value and benefit of that? So I think food and, you know, prey drive can be a really valuable skill in shaping certain behaviors right. I can use food to lure a dog into heel and show them exactly what I want them to do. So, even though we can do these walking drills, I can also have a five-minute session where, with Duke, I go over heel, lure him into heel Good reward in position, heel, heel. So that eventually, when I say that word, he's like oh yeah, I whip into heel. I can use prey, drive in a way to, you know, motivate the dog to do certain behaviors so that when they're, you know, just on a walk with me, I can say heel, and they actually know what to do. I'm not saying heel and like cranking on the leash or cranking on my e-collar, right? So we do.
Speaker 1:We want to be able to teach our dogs what we want, but in the beginning that looks very simple. It's simply just follow my lead. You don't make decisions. I'm gonna make decisions for you and honestly, it's a beautiful thing. Imagine if somebody came into your life and they're like hey, hey, so I'm going to decide everything for you. You just get to relax. I know you really well, so I'm going to have all of your favorite food and I'm going to plan out your day to exactly how you like. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to lift a finger, I'll be like, oh hell, yeah, that sounds great, right? Somebody making all the tough decisions for you so you don't have to. It's really a great place to be and once we get our dogs there, it's like enjoyable for them. They want to be there, they want to follow our lead.
Speaker 1:Like building up that, that pack drive, that drive to you to want to work with you, is my personal favorite part of dog training. I think if anybody came to me and they were like, yeah, I really want like fancy obedience, I'll be like, oh my gosh, I don't want to do that, I'll give you to somebody else. But I really like taking the dogs that are maybe a little insecure or need a little bit of you know, reeling in and teaching them to just follow me. That's's it, that's all you gotta do. All right, guys? That wraps up my spiel on drive. I hope that that made sense.
Speaker 1:I, like I said, I went down a rabbit hole the past like week or so on all of these drive states, and I don't know if I mentioned this earlier, but I talked about drive states actually in one of my earliest episodes in the podcast with Yori. So I started getting into this more when I got into sports. That's what kind of introduced me to drive, and now I have words for the things that I was observing with all of these dogs. Think he explains it a little bit. He kind of talks about how that's like his favorite thing is, you know, working with a dog and switching them between drive states, and at the time I was like I don't really know what that means so much, but hopefully this was helpful for y'all.
Speaker 1:Uh, as a little reminder, our next round of our virtual shadow program starts on the 26th. We're actually filling up very, very fast. We have an amazing group of people so far. Like I'm genuinely so excited for this round. That is for my folks who are wanting to become dog trainers, by the way. So I will always have the link to the website in my show notes so you guys can go and check out all of that stuff. And thanks for being here. We'll see you next time. Thank you.