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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Path from Reactive Dog to Dog Trainer
Lex shares her transformation from dog owner to professional trainer, sparked by her journey with her reactive German Shepherd, Koda. What began as a challenging adoption—complete with a parvo diagnosis and costly medical bills—evolved into a career-defining experience that taught her invaluable lessons about balanced training approaches.
• Adopting Koda as an eight-week-old puppy during COVID, only to face immediate health challenges including parvo and hip problems
• How a traumatic dog park incident transformed Koda from confident to severely reactive almost overnight
• The frustration of working with multiple trainers whose methods either didn't help or felt too extreme
• Learning that tensing up, using "leave it" commands, and emotional corrections can actually worsen reactivity
• Why the best training methods aren't universal—they must match what handlers are comfortable implementing
• The importance of finding mentors and hands-on experience rather than relying solely on online certifications
• How working with rescue dogs provided valuable learning opportunities without the pressure of client expectations
• Finding balance between training and simply enjoying your dog through activities like structured play and enrichment
• Learning to advocate for fearful dogs by managing their environment without pushing them beyond their threshold
Remember that reactivity is largely about management—your dog needs you to be their confident leader, showing them the boundaries while still giving them opportunities to enjoy life.
Visit us at theeverydaytrainer.com
Hello, hello and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. On today's episode, I'm joined by my good friend Lex. You've probably heard her on previous episodes. She was actually at the retreat with us, so she invited me into her home. We're sipping on some purple tasty tea and she's going to tell us all about her journey with her dog, Coda, and how it led to her becoming a dog trainer. So very relatable. You guys are very much going to enjoy this episode. You know the drill Grab yourself a tasty drink and meet us back here, Hello Lex.
Speaker 2:Hello Lex, hey Meg, I told her right away I was like I'm going to be awkward. In the next couple minutes We'll muscle through.
Speaker 1:We'll get through it. We have the prettiest tasty drink today. It is such a nice color, a nice purple drink, purple tea, lavender, blueberry, and it smells it smells so good.
Speaker 2:I love it. I love being in a girl house. It's great. I'm glad it's clean. You came at a good time yeah, it worked out nicely.
Speaker 1:So I was in the area picking up a dog and then I like checked my maps and I was like, huh, I think I'm close to Lex and I ended up being like six minutes away. So I hijacked your day off and here we are, it's great it's meant to be yeah, so tell us a little about yourself. How'd you get here?
Speaker 2:um, I just love changing careers every like four to five years. So, uh, we met. Um, when did we meet? We met probably like three years ago, online. I was getting into dog training, trying to kind of figure out what the path was. So I reached out to Meg, was like I'll pay you for a consult, not about dogs but about my business, and this was kind of before you had developed that part of your business where you were like helping dog trainers. Um, so that's how we kind of met. But I got into dog training about four years ago from my dog, coda, who was a little reactive baby. So I had to kind of work through that, which I guess we'll talk about yeah, tell us about coda um, coda is a five-year-old German shepherd mix.
Speaker 2:I got him from a shelter when he was eight weeks old, out somewhere in the middle of nowhere, like out past Petaluma in California, and, yeah, I was like it was COVID, it was 2020. And I was bored out of my mind. I was like caretaking for a family member and I was like ready for a dog. I was like I'm ready for a dog. I had an older Australian shepherd at the time and I really wanted my next dog to like meet Coda I mean meet Ace Sorry, that was my Aussie and um, I was like living at home. So I wanted to make sure that, like my folks were cool with it. I was only going to be there for a short term period and they were like definitely not. And I was like I'm doing it. So they called me up and they're like OK, you can do it, which was awesome.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I was just looking for a dog. I didn't know what I want, but I definitely like big, scary dogs. So I was looking for a shepherd mix of some kind. I had Ace, who was awesome, but Aussies are a lot of energy and I wasn't sure I wanted I didn't know enough about shepherds at the time to know what I was like getting into, and I've had dogs my whole life. I've been a dog walker. I was boarding dogs in San Diego for a couple of years, so I did a lot of different things with dogs so I'm very confident in my handling. But um, she's also tiny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you have this big ass German shepherd yeah, you have this big ass german shepherd.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's. He doesn't seem that big to me, which is funny. And then and then I see pictures of us and I'm like god, I'm just really small, but I like being he's pretty big with big dogs.
Speaker 1:Like I forgot how big he was, and then I walked in today I was like damn, you are big he's just intense too.
Speaker 2:I feel like his aura is just really like dark red, like he's, just like he's coming for you.
Speaker 2:He's like yeah yeah, he's very intense and he puffs up a lot when he's uncomfortable, which is a lot so yeah awkward like so you got him from a rescue yeah, got him from a rescue and right off the bat it was just like problematic, so he had parvo immediately. We had taken him to the vet. He got a clean bill of health. He was really big though he was a huge puppy and he was so round and I was like this dog is so fat.
Speaker 1:This is weird did he come with parvo or did he get parvo?
Speaker 2:he came with it, which I didn't know, and neither did the rescue okay, so you know how people are.
Speaker 1:oh, you shouldn't take your dog out or your puppy out because they're going to get Parvo. The only cases and I'm sure that obviously there are other ones, but the only cases of Parvo that I have heard of directly from people that I know are like that Like they've gotten them from backyard breeders or they've gotten them from rescues where they don't really know where the dogs have come from and they already have Parvo.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he came from a household that had multiple German shepherds and they just like bred at the house. I don't know many details about the dogs, but they were both like shepherds of some kind came to the shelter and then they were getting adopted out. I don't think he was in the shelter for that long, but I've worked in the in the rescue world for a long time and parvo is so quick to spread in shelters because it's just so hard to keep everything clean and that comes from the house that he came from, so like who knows if they were keeping the pens clean and like what they were doing with the puppies, so he could have contracted it at the rescue or he could have contracted it at the house he was at because they, they like gladly let the dogs be fixed. So that was the, that was the rule. Was that like if the rescue I got him from was going to take the dog they wanted to neuter and spay the female, um, and they let them, no problem.
Speaker 2:So it was just a really low income kind of like farmy area in the woods, like it was a place I had never heard of and um kind of wine country, but like not, I can't even remember the name of the town, but it happens a lot and, unfortunately, like I should have recognized some of the signs but it's hard to tell because I was. They were like oh he, because like I saw him and I was like why is his stomach so round, like he looks bloated, and they're like, oh, he just ate a bunch of food and I was like, oh okay, didn't like think twice what?
Speaker 1:are the symptoms it just depends.
Speaker 2:so, like he didn't show the Parvo symptoms, but he also had multiple parasites. So he had like all this gastrointestinal like just a mess of like worms and all these really gross things. So that's what was inflaming his stomach at the time. But when I brought him in, it's not like they're doing a stool sample when you first bring your puppy in, they're doing like a physical basically. So I didn't notice at first, but all of a sudden and I'm like very I'm a dog person, like I've been around dogs a lot so he showed symptoms pretty early. Um, it was like three days in, I think, and all of a sudden he was super lethargic. He like wasn't eating, he just looked off and was just out of it. So I was up with him all night and then he started vomiting and I was like something's not right. This is weird, this isn't right.
Speaker 2:So at 5am I took him to the ER vet, um, and brought him in and they came out and we're like yeah, it's Parvo and it was COVID, though. So like it was earlier and it was like middle of COVID in 2020. And, um, they didn't really know, like they didn't have the staff inside to be able to like manage parvo. So they're like you're gonna have to keep him and isolate him and then bring him in for treatments every day what? Yeah, so I had to bring him in because he was because they don't eat, they don't drink. So you have to kind of like force feed them and give them liquid iv bags, basically that's the treatment, yeah, and you have to just like they give you. They give them liquid IV bags, basically that's the treatment, yeah, and you have to just like they give you. They give them like a like a medication, but then you have to just see if it works and there's like a 90 something percent, it's like 95% like kill rate for puppies like him at the stage he was at.
Speaker 2:So they were like you have to prepare yourself to like put him down if it gets bad. And I was like I just got him Like him, like yeah, it was crazy. So it sucked because, like parvo happens and I was the first one out of the litter who got it. So I immediately called the rescue that that morning right after I found out, and I was like you need to go tell all of the other adopters because he had like maybe four siblings and I was like you have to go tell them all to take their dogs and right now, because they all have it. I was like, guaranteed they all have it. Um, and sure enough they did. Yeah, him and one of the other pups got it the worst.
Speaker 2:and then the other ones were like okay, like they got the meds early enough that they were okay, which I don't know enough about power, but I know exactly how that works yeah, I don't really know that much about it but it was weeks of like him, just like the first week was the worst because he has to go in and get the IV bags and an anti-nausea shot because he wasn't eating, so he wasn't like holding food down, he would vomit everything I gave him and they like immediately like stuck him with the anti-nausea in the back and it burns, so he's like screaming. I had a Mustang at the time and I'm like doing this in the back of my car with my screaming puppy. I was just like crying, I was like it's okay and, uh, he lost like all of his weight. He got so skinny. He was like this skeleton puppy and I had to like give him this really high content fat food that I would just put in his gums and like close his mouth and make him swallow it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that was our life for like a couple weeks and then oh my gosh yeah, it was like two weeks of it being bad and then, like the third, he kind of started to come out of it and he would like eat a little bit more. And then by week four it was better, but really bad experience immediately. So that sucked and it was thousands of dollars right off the bat. So my $200 dog was now like a $4,000 dog and I was like, okay, well, could have bought a purebred.
Speaker 2:But yeah, we are so, um, yeah, that happened. And then, um, we had a couple like little things that came up when he was younger. Uh, he like pulled his hip twice. Turns out he's got like terrible hips, which I did found out about a year and a half. I got him x-rayed and he's which is what you get with backyard bred German Shepherds sometimes. So be cautious because it's crazy. And what you get with backyard bred German Shepherds sometimes. So be cautious because it's crazy. And if you do that, make sure you have good insurance, because mine doesn't cover it. So I pay everything for his hips and back out of pocket, which I'm probably about 20 grand in the hole now from all of his medical, which is crazy that's wild yeah but why don't they cover it um, the one that I have.
Speaker 2:It's in the fine print that if your dog is predisposed to a disease so german shepherds are predisposed to having bad hips oh, they don't cover it. What's the point? Yeah, it was a bummer. I didn't know and I had it since he was a baby. So like, yeah, I didn't. Because after after the first like three incidents, I was already like five grand down the drain and I was like, okay, now I should get pet insurance. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I got it and the quote from one of the better brands was like double the amount and I was like he's not gonna have that many more problems.
Speaker 2:Little did I know foreshadowing so much more, yes, which is a bummer. So if you're getting insurance for your dog, which is definitely do it, especially if you have dogs that are out in the world a lot. Just read the policies closely, first, cause there's a lot of really great ones out there. You just have to make sure you're doing the right one. Who do you have?
Speaker 2:I the, the one that I don't love, is nationwide, so I have them, and they don't cover everything, which is a bummer. I like pets best. I like troupanion, but troupanion is a bit expensive, but they do cover everything and then you don't have to pay out of pocket, so like they'll pay the bill right off the bat for you, which is nice. I can't remember if pets bets does that or not, but those two are really nice. I know lemonade has some good policies and like dental and like after death stuff as well, but just do your research. There's a bunch of them out there. There's so many now like there used to only be like two, yeah, and now's a ton. So just do your research and look up your breed and make sure you understand what dog you're getting and what you could run into. So you know.
Speaker 2:And for Koda, because I said he was a German Shepherd mix. That's why they tagged me. So if I had just put mutt on it, it would have been covered. Wait, is he a mix? I have no idea. I'm pretty sure he's just a german shepherd. Yeah, he looks just like a german shepherd. He's got hips like a german shepherd. Yeah, but people, people tell me all the time like no, no, I had like a client that had a dog like this and it was a mix.
Speaker 1:It had like husky in it, or had this in it, and they're like, I'm like he's not, he's just a shepherd.
Speaker 2:Look at his attitude. He's hella sad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's just a whiny shepherd. He literally is just a shepherd. Yeah, but um, so you're raising him during covid yeah, which is tough.
Speaker 2:So, as we know as dog trainers, there's a lot of dogs around his age that had a lot of behavioral issues, just because the socialization factor was tough. So I was lucky and like ran into someone at the park who wasn't like too weird about covid that I was like hey, can our like dogs play? And she had a young, same age as coda golden retriever. So he grew up with a golden, which was nice, um, and we kind of like created like a little bit of a group that did it and then it got really big and I was like this is basically a dog park so I left the group because it was just a little too much. I just don't like my dogs being like way overstimulated like that yeah um, and then, yeah, his training was going well.
Speaker 2:He's drivey, he's smart, he liked to train back then. Now he's a little fussy about it. But, um, we're in San Diego visiting a friend and he's about a year old and I got yelled at for training in the park Cause I was at the park, which is uh, it's uh. You have to have your dogs on leash.
Speaker 2:I had them off leash because we were training and they yelled at me and he's like look, there's a right over there you can go train at. And I was like, okay, like I had to work him. So I was like it's fine. So we went into the dog park which I never go into dog parks, but I was like it's fine. There's like no one here. He's playing ball with me, it's all good, my friend's there.
Speaker 2:And as we're getting ready to leave, this like gorgeous Malamute German Shepherd walks in I I walked up to her and I was like, wow, that's a really beautiful dog. And as I'm saying that, her dog decides to turn around at coda because he's sniffing him like all the dogs. You know, when you bring a new dog and they all rush to the dog and, yeah, overcrowd them, and coda's just in the right place at the right time and totally gets attacked by this dog and bit in the face. And it was a whole. It was a whole thing and uh, how'd you break it up? It wasn't too bad. So he like was going after a couple dogs but he like got coda in the face and like latched for a second, but he wasn't like a strong latch and coda wasn't that big at the time, he was still kind of small.
Speaker 2:He. I don't think he was quite a year at, he was maybe like 10 or 11 months. Yeah, um, and they split up. I mean now I know like obviously, if your dogs are fighting, bring a slip lead everywhere you go. It's like the only safe way to get your dog off another dog. So if any of you do dog parks, make sure you bring it. I heard some guy recently being like oh, I love the horn, it like breaks up dog fights. And let me tell you from working in a shelter, that horn. You might get lucky if the dogs break off.
Speaker 1:But I've never heard that, dude. You know what's crazy is, me and Toma have been like sleeping at a park, outside of a dog park, and we literally wake up. We stayed there three nights. Every day we wake up to a dog fight, and not just like a, like a, but like people screaming bloody murder, like get off, god, stop, stop. Like it's literally like we wake up like holy shit, you know, and it's every morning, yeah, every single morning, and people still go there I think it.
Speaker 2:I understand like I have a lot of clients that really like dog parks and I I just educate people. Now I'm like, hey, this is what could happen. This, these are the habits your dog could pick up. Like you don't know who you're in there with. Like it's just a free for all. Like we call it doggy fight club. Like it's just it just takes a second. Yeah, like you dog's intentions are. You know, like some dogs fight very like surface level and some dogs are super serious and you don't know until your dog's in that situation what kind of dog you have.
Speaker 2:So yeah it sucks um and, like I said, like I've had dogs that I brought into a dog park, like I had my. My aussie like got attacked kind of like, not like not punctured, but like like gone after by a big mastiff and my dad had to rip that dog off and the Aussie was fine, like no, no problems came out of it, like he was still friendly, still just focused on me, like no behavioral stuff came out of it. Koda was not the same. Koda went off the deep end of like fear and anxiety and it changed him immensely. Like it was night and day. He was just no longer the same dog and I I didn't handle it well either. I hadn't had a dog like that, so it was a new situation did it?
Speaker 1:did it change him immediately?
Speaker 2:yeah, pretty, pretty quickly, and like he was fine with the dogs he knew. But the second, a new dog, was involved. It was like game over and he was like I'm gonna go for the throat. Like he was immediately defensive and I think I had so much anxiety around it that I was very like I did a lot of the things you're not supposed to do. So I would like clench up and I would anticipate, when dogs were coming by, like I would, instead of just like taking a deep breath and like walking through it and just like you know, giving a minor correction if he lunges forward, and just like moving forward and not making a huge deal out of it, I was like hyper fixated on it. So yeah, and that, as we know now, like if you're doing that, your dog like feels that energy through the leash.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're like cuing your dog.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then you're both have PTSD and people will mess up and they like mark the behavior too. So then I'm I'm like gearing up and I'm being like leave it, leave it, leave it before we're approaching dogs. Then you're marking that behavior, so he's seeing it. He then relates that that moment to that leave it word. So he's like anxious and he's like gearing up for it, cause now I've like created a command around it, essentially of being like get ready.
Speaker 1:And that's. That was the opposite of what I'm trying to do. But you kind of unintentionally do that. Yeah, so many people do that, you know, and they're like but my dog knows, leave it. But the problem is you're practicing it in that context more, where the dog is loading up on other dogs, and so that is what leave it means to that dog. So then you say leave it, and the dog's like yeah, like let's go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a word can have multiple meanings, depending on the context too. So like, yeah, if you're practicing, leave it with food in your house, and your dog knows, leave it, but then you're still marking it on the walk. It can, even though the words mean different things. If your environment is set like that, then oh preach.
Speaker 1:That's literally. I don't teach leave it for that reason, because people use it in that context and dogs are very contextual, like they're really not relying on our words that much Like it's. It's very much context in those moments, you know, and so like, think about the context when you're teaching a leave it command. Most people teach it where you put food in your hands and when the dog goes to grab the food, you say leave it and you close your hand and then they wait and then you go good and you reward them, Right. That is so completely different than disengaging from staring at a dog, you know so yeah, it's learning right, Like it's.
Speaker 2:it's one one of those things like you don't know until you're like deep in it. And I spent probably six months trying to do it myself and then I was like this is way out of my league, like I was not a dog trainer yet. I wasn't even like thinking of that as like a career at that time. Um, I was having a lot of fun training him and like in all the obedience and the confidence building and all of that and I had done I've trained dogs before and I used to be a dog walker and boarding and all of that and this was like way, way out of my league and I was like I don't know what I'm doing, I'm making it worse. He was getting worse and worse and it just kept kind of spiraling and I was spiraling. So I was like what did that look like His?
Speaker 2:his like reactivity was turning into aggression, like it was shifting, like he was becoming more reactive more frequently. He was getting more frustrated with me and our training. Like his like um, resource guarding started picking up. Like he just started like spiraling and as far as like the bad habits went, it just kind of kept going and it was getting worse because, like it's it's trust right, that's what a lot of building confidence is. It's like do they trust you to handle a situation and I wasn't handling it? So code is like if you're not going to handle it, I'm going to handle it yeah.
Speaker 2:And he's making bad decisions. And that's what reactivity is. Is your dog thinking they need to make a decision and they're making the wrong decision, which is not their fault, like it's what he thought he had to do? And I think that's where I think that's where it gets tough for owners. They're like I don't understand how I like how this happened. Like you know, I have a purebred, like lab or a Husky, and they were so fine. And now, and I'm like yeah, but they don't trust you to make the decision because you haven't taken that role as the leader, and they're like're like, oh, I need to be more alpha. I'm like that is not what it is.
Speaker 2:it's like you just need to be a leader. You need to show them what the boundaries are and hold them accountable to it. And I was also very emotional in my corrections so I would get very upset, I'd get like frustrated and scared. So I would lash out at him and I'd correct him really hard on his callers and it was too much, much.
Speaker 2:I was like my timing was off, my my like level was off, so like I was using a prong at the time and I'm like loading up with it, so I'm like popping him on it at the wrong times and I'm doing it too hard. So now it becomes this adversive tool. So I was doing a lot of damage across the board Cause I just didn't know what I was doing and I was like I need to correct that behavior. But I wasn't like showing him how else to act. So it was kind of like he was left with like nothing, like he didn't know what to do, which I think a lot of owners get stuck in that, yeah, like they are just doing all the wrong things but they don't know when they're just doing the best that they can.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what was life like in the house?
Speaker 2:It was fine. But it's like one of those things where you want to enjoy your dog and I was very hard on myself about him not being the dog that I had a couple months prior, so I think I wasn't as like silly with him. I started getting serious with him and even I mean I mean you've seen me with him Like I'm still hard on him a lot and I think that even now I have to like relax sometimes and be like dude, he's fine, like I talk shit about him, he's a great dog. But, um, you have this idea of what you want your dog to be like. And if you have previous dogs and I had like really great dogs even my not great dogs were still pretty great dogs so then all of a sudden I had this dog that was like a problem and I was like I didn't understand it. So I was very hard on him because I was like and it just took. It took a lot of time and money and and uh, you know cause. The next step is like finding a trainer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you realize that you couldn't do it on your own anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just didn't want to. I was just like I think I'm messing it up, and luckily I was like able to recognize that but then finding a trainer is a whole, a whole other situation, cause there is a lot of different kinds of trainers out there, and you have to find someone that not only works with you well, but also is going to be able to manage your dog and have the skills to be able to handle the problem yeah, how did you find the first trainer that you worked with?
Speaker 2:literally just googled like, uh, I was looking for a balance trainer because I trained with tools. So I was like balance trainers in the East Bay, california, and a couple came up and like you know, like the SEO is kind of weird on, so, like some of them were still positive reinforcement, I was like no, they're going to hate me. Yeah, I mean, if I could turn a dog in positive reinforcement like I obviously will, but I need someone who understands like what I understand as far as training goes. So I found someone, um, I found someone that I was doing like online stuff with for a little while, just to start, and she kind of told me like what I already knew and she's a very well-known trainer out in Marin and, um, she's been around a long time and she was like, yeah, just like about the re-socializing, but she didn't give me enough context on like how I was supposed to handle the like direct, like the walk itself and like engagement with him. So it was kind of just, it was too basic, it wasn't enough. And she was in Marin and I was like I'm not gonna drive an hour to go see her and she's like I'm not really taking the reactive cases, like I'm just doing this because it's online virtual sessions.
Speaker 2:So I found another trainer who came to my house and you pay like a package and he was super nice. Um, uh, he's a really nice guy. He gave me some different methods to work on. Like his code was like resource guarding. Like my room he would resource guard the bed, his bowl crate, like he was doing weird things in the house that were kind of new now and he's always been a little bit of a resource guard, even when he was a pup and I think it's because he had parvo, so he had some weird stomach issues so he wasn't getting enough nutrients for a while. Yeah, took me like six months to get his like, like his system back on track where he was having like consistent, like poop and stuff like that. So I was like it. The resource garden kind of came after that and again I was pretty aggro with it. Where I would like take things away from him, I'd be like, oh, you're going to resource guard, I'm going to take that away from you. Like that's not, we know now. Like don't do that.
Speaker 2:You make it way, way worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So um and this guy kind of like agreed with that kind of methodology of like, yeah, I'm gonna take the food, I'm gonna dominate a little bit more. He was a bit old school, um, but he was still a really nice guy, gave me some tips but it was. It was a lot of money for what I got out of it. It wasn't a ton and he didn't really help me with the reactivity like at all. Um gave me some notes on resource guarding. Coda has like weird things with his feet and he was very much like we're just going to hold the dog down and if he like shits himself, then that's how it's going to be and he's going to learn that like it's going to be fine. You just have to keep doing that. But Coda is like 85 pounds. I'm a solid 105. So doing that stuff by myself is nearly impossible.
Speaker 2:Yeah myself is nearly impossible yeah, and coda's pretty serious when he gets angry. He's like no longer the same guy. So I have to like muzzle him and all that and it's just stressful. It was just really stressful and he did like almost he was like releasing his bowels a bit when we were doing it and I was like this is just, and he was like panicking and I was like I just don't like this, like I don't think this is working for him.
Speaker 2:So we were I was with that guy for maybe a month, um, and I just didn't see enough progress. So I started talking to another trainer who came in and he was like you need to be harder on him prong collar, like hang him up by the prong, all of these things and I it was just too aggressive and he like worked with Koda. Koda was super scared of him and Coda gets scared. He gets mad. Yeah, coda will go after people when he gets scared and he doesn't like like it doesn't calm down because you get more aggressive. And this guy would like get more aggressive and then Coda would get more aggressive and then he's just hanging my dog up by the prong collar and I was like this is not fair. It just doesn't make sense. You're not teaching the dog anything, you're just trying to get him to submit right, and I don't think that's fixing the problem. I think you're putting a band-aid on it and you're making your dog fearful of you, and I don't like that relationship, especially for a dog.
Speaker 1:Also, you physically are not able to do that. So what happens like, Like, let's say, yes, that that method does work with that trainer? What happens when he leaves and you're left to handle your dog? You know like, you're not going to do that.
Speaker 2:No, no no, and that's a huge part of training too is like making sure that you're adjusting your training for the owners at hand. So when I'm introducing tools to people now and we're like, okay, these are tools that we use, I would suggest using the collar or a prong collar and they're like hesitant about it If I explain the tool one more time and I show them how it works and they're still hesitant like I'm not gonna, that's not the best thing.
Speaker 1:Then Pat Stewart talks about this, um, a lot. He talks about like, like. Sometimes the best method isn't the best method because it's not what the owner is going to do. You know, like, just because you think the best method is this, like, if it doesn't align with what the owner wants to do, then that's not the best method. Or that's not, like, the best approach to training that dog.
Speaker 2:Because we know training is all about consistency, right, and like doing it and putting the reps in and for an owner to work with something they're not comfortable with is just they're not going to do it. And like I know that now, like I would like push an e-collar on somebody and then I was like how are you doing with the e-collar? And they're like, oh, I'm not using it, I'm doing200. That's what I like talk about all the time with like prong collars.
Speaker 1:Like, especially when I was in Orlando, like working with owners a lot, I stopped. I literally stopped buying prong collars. I'm like these are not cheap. One, two, I'm not going to train a dog on a prong collar when the dogs come back to me for boarding and they're on a flat collar, on a prong collar. When the dogs come back to me for boarding and they're on a flat collar. So I started.
Speaker 1:I literally changed my entire way of training from every almost everybody gets a prong collar to no, we're training dogs on flat collars and slip leads because that's what owners are going to use. So why would I train the dog on tools that the owners are not going to use? You know like it's not the best. Like training, it's not the best thing that I would want to use. Yeah, you know like it's not the best. Like training, it's not the best thing that I would want to do.
Speaker 1:You know like I would want to put a prong collar on a lot of those dogs, but if the owner is just going to be like, oh, I don't like the way this looks, I don't like clipping it, because even clipping it is like such a pain in the ass. You know like you have to get a buckle for it if you really want people to use it, and then you have to have like a carabiner or like some sort of like backup safety and it's just, it's a lot you know. So you have to like, as a dog trainer, you have to make sure that your training aligns with the people that you're working with.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it took me a while to learn that. I think up until this last last year I was still kind of doing that where I was pushing certain tools on people because I was like no, this is what's best for your dog. And like I know that the dog trains well on that and I condition the dog on the e-caller or whatever. And then I'm like, are you using that? And they're not. So then I go back every like six months and I'll condition their dog again just to make sure that the dog still understands it. But it's useless at that point because, yeah, the owner doesn't have to use that. I should be a good enough handler that I'm able to train their dog on just the slip lead. Then, yeah, and like, those dogs can walk on slips too, like I do both now.
Speaker 2:But it was the same thing with that scenario and it was just like with Koda. I was like this is not how and it's not how. I want to use a prong collar either. Like it might work for other trainers, but I don't like hanging my dogs up by it and there's some dogs that maybe need it. Like I just don't for him. It didn't, it wasn't working and I saw it literally not working in front of me and he was like no, this is how we're going to do it. And I was like I'm not going to work with this guy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So the original trainer that I worked with, um, or the the one in the middle he was like you'd be a really good dog trainer. He's like you have like a lot and he's like you should go to this online school. So I like did that and it was such a waste of money. I am like way too educated in dogs to do some silly online education program about like the basics of behavior.
Speaker 1:Wait, what was?
Speaker 2:it. It was the ABC program, so it's an animal behavioral college. And he was like, no, you need the certificate, so you have it. And I was like, let's get certed up, like that's fine and I'm I'm not mad that I have it because, like it's still a program that you have to do. It takes a while to get through it, you still have to do testing and all that, but, like, if you don't know anything about dogs, I think it's not a bad program for you, especially if you're going into the positive reinforcement world.
Speaker 2:For me, like I should have put that money into going and working under a mentor, cause that would have covered like a month and a half with a mentor and that would have completely changed a lot about my training faster versus me like slowly climbing up the ladder myself, trying to learn everything alone, which is fine, but obviously I know now like seminars and going and working with like um, with someone who's been doing it a long time is like that's the best way to get hands on dogs. And like learn is you need hands on dogs with someone that can correct your form here and there. Just like owners with us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah so who was after that guy?
Speaker 2:That was it. So I gave up finding. I gave up finding trainers. I was like screw this.
Speaker 1:And you became a trainer.
Speaker 2:I'm going to do it. Yeah, trainers I was like screw, and you became a trainer, I'm gonna do it. Yeah. So what was like your first steps for that? So you did the online thing and you're like this is dumb. Yeah, I just started to try to like. I subscribed to a couple trainers like online, like patreons and things like that and I started just watching reactivity videos.
Speaker 2:So so handlers like like tom davis was one of the first ones I found because he had a big youtube presence and he still does now, but like he, it was one of the bigger ones I found because he had a big YouTube presence and he still does now, but like he, it was one of the bigger ones online.
Speaker 2:That wasn't like a human society person or whatever, which is fine, but like I wanted someone that was handling like brutal dogs so I could see what it looked like.
Speaker 2:So I subscribed to him and I was watching like the YouTubes for a little while scrubbed through his page, so then I could watch the full length videos and that changed a lot of how I was like going to work with the dog. So I like got an e-collar, got his prong like, and I I just changed how I was doing it. I started just messing with it out in public just to see how I could like do it and uh, yeah, I I don't think I like fully fixed it for a while, but, like when I started training I needed, I knew I needed Koda. Like he was no longer that reactive on leash, but I knew he wasn't going to be neutral enough for me to use as a demo dog with my clients, as I was like, going through that online program, I was like I'm going to need a dog. I can like work around people that have reactive dogs and that have other dogs. Um so then I found Alice.
Speaker 2:So um where is she? Do you know where she moved to? No, she used to be over here. She's on the east coast. Now I want to say she's in tennessee.
Speaker 2:Um, back to balance was her company name. Uh, she's a badass. She's a very, very talented trainer. So I think we were talking and I mentioned to you like who should I start looking to go to? I need to, like I want to work through some stuff with Coda that I have, just so I can like see how she's going to tune it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I had just found Dallas. And then you were like oh, dallas trains kind of like me. You should go check her out. And I was like that's crazy. I actually just hit her up with an inquiry. Yeah, she's a really good trainer trainer. So she kind of grew up in it and like came back to it and she's worked with horses too a little bit. So like that helped.
Speaker 2:So she kind of explained some of the things that were relatable to like the horse world, because I've had experience working like barrel horses, so that was helpful as well and she's she's just very good at what she does.
Speaker 2:And she saw Koda and was like okay, like yeah, you can do it, like I could do it faster and I was like, yeah, but yeah, but yeah, but I need to learn. So, like I'm here to like, and I told her a little bit about what I was doing and she's like, okay, cool, so I would drive out to Los Gatos, which is like it's a nice like hour and a half drive. So I was doing that, um, to go train with her and she helped me like fine tune some of my training skills with, like prong collar and how to put pressure on, cause I'm I'm pretty good at using body pressure, and she, she like kind of jumped on that. It was okay, you're really good at this, let's like work on that with your prong collar. And that helped me finesse CODA's reactivity a little bit more and also just gave me more tools in my tool belt Right, cause the more trainers we start to work with, we start to like.
Speaker 2:you shouldn't take any one trainer's word for like law, like it's a very fluid industry, are there?
Speaker 1:any like specific things that she told you to do that have stuck with you um or like adjustments that she made yeah, she, she's a little bit.
Speaker 2:She was a little bit heavier handed on the prong than I was being at the time, but her timing is sharp, so coda got it a lot faster. So when it came to like Coda, like she had me work Coda down first, so it was a lot of like get his head in the game, so turns in, turns out, just to get him to focus. Cause Coda gets so anxious that he's like it's to a new place, he's crying in my truck. And then I get him out and he's just like amped and she's okay, him down. And she made me just make sure that I was getting his head to the point where when you're doing your turns out first, so your dog's like getting in front of you, you turn away, pop him on the prong if he's getting too far, and then he like comes back to your side and then we just keep doing that and so those walking drills?
Speaker 2:just the walking drills, just like you do so same thing. It was just like on his prong. It's just like put that pressure on turn and she's popping quick, yeah, yeah and she.
Speaker 2:I could do it on the slip lead as well, but we were working with the prong at a time because, yeah, that was just the tool of choice. Um, so getting his head focused because, like anxious dogs, just like they're. Just, it's like if you're having anxiety and someone, like three people are talking to you, like you're not going to be paying attention to them because you're so focused on you having anxiety that like it's hard to hear things. So those drills really help just get your dog to re-center a little bit so they can hear you, because then you notice that your dog's paying attention to you, right, because like you're going to turn into them, you're going to turn away from them and they need to be on it or they're going to get popped on the prong. So nothing was super harsh, nothing was like heavy-handed, it was just like quick corrections, non-emotional um. And the biggest thing she took that I took away from that was I tend to speed up.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:I get nervous and I walk faster. Yeah, because then I'm in it and I'm like working, and then I'm like, okay, I'm working, and then we're like turning more, turning too fast and like she'd be like you need to slow down. So like, slow everything down, you're going too fast. And like she'd be like you need to slow down. So like, slow everything down, you're going too fast. You're in your head. You take a deep breath because I would start to hype myself up because then I'm in the training and I'm thinking about the training and I'm like yeah.
Speaker 2:And we see this with like clients I have now, and they're like, they're thinking about like where's their hand? Is their timing right? Like when are you? When are you turning? Are you am out? And then you like mess up and you're like, oh god, I messed up. And it's like, dude, relax, just we're having fun, it's okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, and that goes across the board for training is just like slowing down and you're really good at that.
Speaker 2:I'm a little ball of anxiety sometimes so yeah so, uh, I get caught up, and then I have to like, stop myself and be like yo deep breath.
Speaker 1:I'll tell people that, like, whenever I'm like in training sessions and they start to get like, I'm like, hey, take a deep breath. And like sometimes, when they're like really jazzed up, they're like like they literally can't, and I'm like relax, like take a deep breath.
Speaker 2:I'll make them do a couple. Sometimes I'm like you just need to sit.
Speaker 1:I want, like your shoulders are super tight right now, like you need to just take a deep, relax your arms. Relax your arms, no more. Relax your arms, you're good, I'm gonna get that like tattooed on my forehead. Relax your arms, drop your arms, drop your arms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's true, and even in that moment, like and I I don't always do that, but I was doing it because I was like on the spot and with the trainer you feel like you're on the spot and it's like this is a conversation, like it's it's all good to mess up, it's okay, like that's. What I'm here to do is just to correct you, yeah, just give you tips and pointers, because that's what we're doing. Like people often hire trainers and they think that the trainer is going to fix it, and it's like no, we're giving you the skills as the handler, to be able to fix this dog yourself, because reactivity is not going to get fixed in a month. Reactivity is management for the most part.
Speaker 2:I mean, you can sometimes really like neutralize the dog, but realistically you're going to be handling like and if anything happens later on, like your dog's going to go back to being reactive dog, so you have to just have the skills to manage it. So that was super helpful. Her timing with my prong collar was good and she's really good about if he was getting in front and doing too much. So like once you get out of doing those walking drills like I don't want to be doing walking drills forever and like always having to revert back to that so then comes in corrections after that. So after we give him the opportunity to kind of calm down and learn what, just to tune into you, just to tune in then we start to get into a little bit more correction, cause now you know what's expected.
Speaker 2:I'm asking you to be in heel If you hop in front of me, cause you see a dog and he's getting amped up. She's really good at like putting body pressure on, so she's like doing those turns, but you pop up, turn into him hard and then she'd put body pressure on. So then we're off the prong, walk forward. So she was good about helping me with those little adjustments that I wasn't recognizing at first, which was awesome. So that helped a lot. Um, and also just like trusting coda, I think I just like lost faith in him for a long time. I was like he's just never going to be able to meet other dogs and even when he met your pack, like I was nervous and we were like, okay, we're going to see how he does, cause he also just as a dog who doesn't love every dog he meets, like he just.
Speaker 2:And I always tell people like my clients want their dog to like love everybody. And I'm like do you like everyone you meet? And they're like no, I'm like, okay, why would you expect your dog to. That's so unnatural for dogs like in any aspect and like we breed dogs to be very friendly did we have him out with all of our dogs?
Speaker 1:oh yeah, we did. We did walking drills with him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's what we started with. So, um, yeah, we were at my family's cabin, so we were out there and yeah, yeah dogs out. So we knew we were gonna have all the dogs and I was like, okay, we'll introduce one at a time. And then you were like, let's just do the walking drills. One of us walks behind the other ones, the dogs can kind of catch scent, turn around, they actually did really good together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like he did not care, no, about that.
Speaker 2:He's pretty cool at all he's pretty cool, and then some dogs.
Speaker 2:He's just not like yeah it's too tough and I can introduce him to any dog pretty much like I. I'm very confident in his skills to be around them. He can't coexist with every dog, which most dogs like couldn't coexist with just any dog, but um, but he's good. But I do get. I'm very like, I'm, I'm hyper aware in the beginning when he's meeting a new dog. I'm just like I'm very on it and because he's such a big, he's a very large, very intimidating looking black german shepherd like if a dog's gonna get into a fight, code is gonna get blamed straight up. So I'm just very cautious about liability with him as well and it's not worth it for me half the time like why he doesn't need to meet your dog right, it's cool yeah we were all out in the woods and I wanted the dogs to enjoy themselves and go in the water.
Speaker 2:So I was like, all right, let's introduce the dogs, and your dogs are so neutral that I wasn't too worried. But yeah there's a way to introduce coated dogs. Like I will never just let him like run into a backyard and like be free, because like it could go well, but there's a 50 chance it's not going to go well. And breaking him off of a fight is tough he's big yeah, you're not going to be able to do that.
Speaker 1:It's not worth it. No, going back to like not staying in walking drills forever I think that's something that a lot of people struggle with. Is they're like Meg, I'm doing the walking drills, but like I always have to keep going back to the walking drill, and what I always tell people is like that's because there's not a consequence, right, so the walking drill is really just to get the dog tuned into you and to teach the dog what you want from them, right, but once you've taught them, hey, the name of the game is focus on me there has to be a consequence when you check out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know setting boundaries.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a lot of people get stuck in just doing the walking drills and never correcting their dog for getting out of position, you know, and that's like what balance training is right Is like we're setting healthy boundaries and I'm not upset in my corrections, like it's very like, hey, you messed up like reset and then you get rewarded when you behave well, and that's where we're using food too. So, and you messed up like reset and then you get rewarded when you behave well and that's where we're using food too. So, and code is still like food driven, so like I am using food the whole time. Um, but the corrections were important and I think that same trip.
Speaker 2:So Megan and I were out there, we're down by the water with all the dogs and Toma and we're working dogs and I was like, yeah, I just feel like I'm not comfortable dialing up enough in my e-caller with him, like right now he's super amped. Um, and what we know about the e-callers, obviously it's about matching your dog's energy levels, so like wherever they're at, you kind of have to find that point where they can, where they can feel it. And normally Koda's e-caller he's on like a level eight, right, but if he sees another dog and he's getting hyphy, he's going to be at like a 35 where he can like hear it, where he's like, oh okay, I'm paying attention again, and it's hard to find that when you don't know, like, what you're looking for Cause, then your dog yelps and then you're like, oh my God, I like hurt him.
Speaker 2:I'm never doing that again, yeah, and you feel so guilty and I get it like, yeah, we don't want to hurt our dogs, that's not the point of these tools, but you do have to find the level that they can communicate with you at and I think that was very helpful. We worked together and you're like dial up, dial up, dial up, dial up, dial down, just by like two. And I did, and we found his working level like when we were cause he's a water boy, so he was like pumped, stoked and I could not like he was just too much. And then immediately like I found that level and I asked him for heel and he got corrected when he didn't do it and we like did the walking drills first. I always give him the opportunity to succeed first and if he doesn't, no big deal correction. Asked him for heel, came back over, helped him out, perfect. We're back in heel reward.
Speaker 2:So across the board, like I've had a couple trainers that I've and even those little like that was like 10 minutes we spent outside the vans just doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that still helps me to this day. So it's just like I don't like people just watching one trainer when they're looking for trainers. I like them talking to multiple trainers. And now when I have clients that like, or friends that are looking for dog trainers and they're asking what to look for, it's very much like I always tell them to interview. I'm like interview your trainer first, like make sure that you're you know what you're looking for, you know what tools you want to use and make sure they kind of like resonate with you and are willing to work with you and if they're pushing a tool on you or a certain like directive, to like put your foot down and if they're willing to like change what they're looking to do, because some trainers, I feel like it's so like this is how I know how to do it and we're going to do it this way. Yeah, but dog training is not like that.
Speaker 1:No, no, not at all. I haven't really like. I haven't worked with too many other trainers for my dogs Other than like sport people.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, but the sport people I very much trust I've been. Well, that's not true. I've been in situations with like Minka. So like Minka is kind of the opposite, she's more shut down. She's not even shut down, she just doesn't like conflict. So in bite work and defense she's like I don't want to do this, I don't want to bark, let me just sniff the ground. That's what she wants to do. Um and so for a while, when I was like trying to build her up and get her barking, and you know, doing the whole sport thing, there's always the, the decoy, or like the person who's like, oh I, I can get that dog to bark, you know, and it's just putting her in defense and I'll watch.
Speaker 1:Like trainers like that work other dogs, and I'm like, oh hell, no, I'm not taking my dog out, you know. But I do think that it's very important to listen to your gut in those moments. You know, because a lot of people don't, and I think, like you in that moment, like, even though you weren't a dog trainer, like you have a lot of dog experience, not a lot of people have that, and so when a dog trainer comes to their house, like they're kind of taking it as gospel, you know, and I think sometimes a lot of trainers will be upset if their clients are working with multiple people. But I don't care, like I genuinely don't care. If, like my client goes to somebody else, I'm like hell yeah, like go, go see.
Speaker 1:You know, like I think it's one thing to be trying like a bunch of different things like all of the time and being like, oh, nothing works, you know, but I think on the other side of it, we don't want to just like take one person's methods as gospel, you know, and be like, well, this is what this person says I'm gonna do. You know, like what happens if you did listen to that guy? You know, like if you, if you, if you weren't who you are, you wouldn't have spoken up in those moments when somebody is like choking your dog out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess what I was going to say is like do you think that creates conflict, though, for uneducated people who have dogs? What Seeing different trainers, pet dogs who have like too many people in their ear?
Speaker 1:I think it. It can become an issue for sure, where you have like I don't know, I don't know, I don't care, I don't care. I know that, like some trainers really care if you go to other people, but I don't, I, I genuinely don't, I'm like hell, yeah, you know for example, like my cousin just got a dog and she's like there's just so much information online, she's like it's so conflicting. Like I think, what I know, what do I?
Speaker 2:know is true. What trainers do I go to?
Speaker 1:And I was like oh, I think that's different. Like there's, I feel like we've almost swung in the other direction where, like, when I work with people, they they know too much almost that they're so overwhelmed that they're like all over the place and I'm like, well, we need to simplify this, you know. But I don't really get that with in-person people. Like I haven't had that many uh, clients that I've worked with who have like hopped around to a bunch of different trainers. I've definitely like there was a period in my career where I was definitely like the last hope for a lot of people, you know. But I don't think that says anything necessarily like bad about the other trainers. It's just like you know, I I definitely specialize in the like fearful and reactive, like dogs, you know. So not everybody does that, not everybody trains those types of dogs.
Speaker 1:But I do get a ton of people who are, you know, subscribe to my community and Tom Davis and Shane's, and they're like getting all of this different information. Like, for example, I like bark collars. Shane talks about how he doesn't like bark collars, you know. But like we get a lot of the same clients, we work with a lot of the same people. So when somebody comes to me and they're like hey, this is what's going on. I'm like, hey, I think a bark collar would be a great option. Well, that's not what, like, this person says.
Speaker 2:You know, I think that's when it's kind of like okay, well, you know, it's up to you what you want to do and decide I was gonna say that's a good way to handle it too, because I feel like that's tough for people where they I think that's where dog trainers get a little shady sometimes is them when, like things conflict with their method is like. I like to give it to the people that like make their own decision for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, instead of being like this is the only way. Yeah, and for trainers to like, the dog training world is really interesting. Like I love working with other trainers, like I have I work with a cow pause Canaan rescue. It's mostly a German shepherd. They do like shepherds and mouths. So it's mostly a German shepherd, they do like shepherds and mouths. So I do like consultations for them. I help with fosters. I'll help with events. I foster the dogs that they're struggling with and I train and then I get them homes. I've placed like I don't know, maybe like five dogs through them and I love how they operate.
Speaker 2:They, this German Shepherd, fluffy, super cute, dopey looking teddy bear who wanted to like bite everyone's face off and he was fear reactive. And it was the first time I handled a dog who was like quite so severely fear reactive. He was like a backyard dog. Yeah, really weird backyard dog behaviors. So severely fear reactive. He was like a backyard dog yeah, really weird backyard dog behaviors. Like he would like run at my fence line and just do laps and then he would just do circles and like do really weird. And I was like, oh yeah, backyard dog, that's kind of how Mayan is. Yeah, yeah, same, it's tough. Yeah yeah, very insecure, very unsure of everything. Didn't have a like a lick of obedience on him, very chill in the house. Um, but with people like didn't matter who, it was Like if you walked up to him and you walk straight up to him, he was going for your face. If you looked at him and made eye contact, going for your face If you were a dog walking by, going for the face like he, everything scared him. And he was very serious about like I'm going to create scared him. And he was very serious about like I'm gonna create space by lunging at you, yeah, and would totally put teeth on people, uh, and dogs.
Speaker 2:So I met him and was like, oh, I can. He went for me immediately, very uncomfortable, redirected on the other handler very quickly and I was like, did he just get you? And she's like, yep, got me in the leg and I was like awesome and I'm watching him and he settles down and you can see he just like. Then he's like trying to like look away Like he doesn't want to be there. But then if I moved at all, turn lunge straight at me again. And he's a big, he's like 85 pounds still was underweight and was fluffy. I was like dude, this guy is gonna be a problem. Yeah, we I don't think I handled him at all that time. We went outside later, walked him around a bit and then he was like neutral and he was cool but like I wasn't approaching him.
Speaker 2:I went back another day and same kind of deal. He was like not as unsure of me. He like remembered who I was a little bit faster and kind of came up to me and then she's like take the leash. So I took the leash and I worked him and he was fine and I was like, okay, I think there's hope for this dog. Because they were talking about euthanasia. They're like it might be a behavior euthanasia. Because it's just yeah, we have to turn dogs like they. You know that takes a space away from a dog who is safe, is safe and friendly, and placing a dog like that is very challenging and a liability and uh no, I think. And he was super sweet the second day and I was like, okay, I think I can fix it, I can save him four months later I was like oh my God, um but what I like about one, what I like about rescue.
Speaker 2:So for new trainers, rescue is amazing because you can mess up. So if you're looking to learn new skills, like go find a challenging dog and rescue, that needs your help. And if a rescue is like hey, we have this dog who's like fear reactive, don't I wouldn't say go for aggression cases.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't take, aggression Don't take aggression.
Speaker 2:But if there's like a really shut down dog or if there's like a dog who's like going after skateboards or whatever, like those are really good learning opportunities for you and the rescues are so grateful that you helped work a dog through a problem and allows you to have time. So let's say you can take your time, and that was the thing. Yeah, and that's also a problem, right? Because then it's like I was like letting off the gas a little bit with his training, where I was like I've had this dog two months. I'm not going to train like all day, every day, like I was um, but also that dog was going to be a problem for months. Like that fury activity was going to take me a really long time to recalibrate his brain and because I'm still a pretty green trainer, it's nice to have the opportunity to be able to like make mistakes and change up my method and see what worked for him. And I collaborated with there's a decoy from Illinois named Corey who came out. He was doing some work and I was like, do you mind? Just like checking out this dog. And Corey's a decoy from Illinois named Corey who came out. He was doing some work and I was like do you mind just like checking out this dog? And Corey's a really, really talented trainer and I was like I just want to make sure that one I'm someone that can do this. Like, can I do? I have the skills at this point to work this dog through it. Two, this is my plan. What do you think? And lastly, like, is this dog going to be able to change or is this going to be management for life?
Speaker 2:Um, he met the dog, confirmed that it was going to be trainable, but the dog was always going to be a management case. Uh, because of the randomness, like this dog wasn't just going after like tall men, he was like going it didn't matter if you're an old lady, if you were like paying attention to him or not. Like he'd randomly just go off on people. So the randomness is hard because you can't pinpoint one thing that's going wrong. It's a lot of things environmentally. So he confirmed that and he was very nice about like yeah, you can totally do this. It's just going to take you like six months, which was great for me to understand. Like, oh crap, this is going to be like a long-term problem. And he's like I've done a few dogs like this.
Speaker 2:It just takes a while for them to get very comfortable in those methods yeah could you shut it down very quickly if I wanted to, and be harder on him. Like, yeah, I could shut it down, he's like, but that's not the point. Like the point is that we want to let the dog start making those decisions, and to do that takes a while. So in those instances I love collaboration. Yeah, because it not only confirmed my skill set, which was nice and like take everything with a grain of salt, like just because he gave me that advice. If that wasn't working, in a few weeks I would have changed my method and I did. I met with another trainer. We changed the method slightly. It didn't quite work for that dog at the time, so I moved back to my old method. It worked and then we like eventually got more into like corrections later with that dog.
Speaker 2:And Corey's big thing with that dog was giving Timber the opportunity to move away from an object. So if he's seeing an object that he doesn't like so a man is walking up my job was to step away from Timber and give him some space to make a decision, but step behind him. So I kind of encourage him to move away from the thing that he's uncomfortable with. If he moves away, he gets rewarded If he lunges. He's going to get a correction and we're going to move away from it and go back into working and walking drills, things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, giving him the opportunity, yep yeah.
Speaker 2:And that is a very slow process, but it worked very well it it once it works.
Speaker 1:It works quickly, yeah, but getting there sometimes takes a little bit of a longer. Yeah, you know, getting the dog to make the right decision, but it's that's like the value of free shaping. That's essentially what you're doing, you know. You're giving the dog the opportunity to make the right decision or do the action that we want the dog to do.
Speaker 2:And the reason why we love free shaping so much is because, because it's the dog's decision, that behavior is way more likely to stick that, like I'm glad that I do the work that I do with the rescues and I'm glad that I had the opportunity to work with this dog and um with that. Though, when you're taking on hard dogs like that, like there was a point where I was like, oh my God, I'm going to get stuck. I'm going to get stuck with this shepherd and he was great, super sweet, but he and my dog would like fight every once in a while, like just two big males in the house, like Koda's, pretty dominant, and it was just like things would be good, and then all of a sudden they wouldn't, and me breaking up to 85, 90 pounds is tough.
Speaker 2:I did it twice and it was it's dangerous too, like I could get bit and it's also not fair to Koda.
Speaker 2:No absolutely not, and it sucks, though, because then then you kind of like take on responsibility for this dog. So I was like, well, what are my options then? Like I don't, I can't put him with another handler, like I don't have anyone that'll take him without a board and train fee. So, and I'm already like pretty deep in his training, and I'm very lucky that I found someone that was interested, that had had a little bit of background in Shitson, had another shepherd that was like Koda, but bigger and nicer, that we introduced over the course of a couple of days, and it ended up working out, and he is very into the training and he trusts my training and he works with me like once a week, and I love that. That's like best case scenario.
Speaker 2:It is and I trust him to handle the dog, cause that was my biggest thing is someone understanding who this dog is and being like if you push him in the wrong way, you're gonna mess him up more and like he's gonna turn on you fast. Yeah, and luckily, like right away when we went to the house, I was like how are you gonna introduce this dog to your roommate? And he like was like I'm gonna do it like you did, I'm gonna tell him to do this and that, whatever. And he immediately didn't do that. And the roommate walked right up to the dog and the dog immediately lunged for him and he was like, oh shit. And I was like okay, how are you going to fix that? And we like worked through it and like it's nice for him to see that too. And he wasn't scared of him. He was just like, oh, I messed up. Okay, I'm going to do this this time. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And then we were able to fix it and I was to do it right and the more people he meets and the more confidence he builds in himself and in you, the better it'll get. But it's going to take time. Don't rush him. Don't rush that he gave him so much freedom in the beginning and I was like you're going to regret that and sure enough he did. But it was great to see that relationship develop and now he's fully adopted in the house and they're all doing great together, which is amazing. So that's awesome, super rewarding it, super rewarding. It was great.
Speaker 1:I got nervous for a minute.
Speaker 2:I was like oh my God, I'm going to have this dog and have to create and rotate my dogs, Like not what I wanted.
Speaker 1:No, don't do that to yourself.
Speaker 2:No it's good.
Speaker 1:That's a. It's very similar to my end the, the Malinois mix that I have right now. I would. He's definitely not as extreme as that case. Um, but you know the first it.
Speaker 1:We kind of started on like the wrong foot, he needs to get updated on his vaccines. And so she was like, well, you know, I need, I need to get him into the vet, like before training. And I was like, well, I think, like if you take him, it will be problematic, because he hadn't been, since he was like a puppy. I was like, so why don't you let me take him and then I can see what we're working with, you know? So I took him to the vet and, yeah, we know how that goes. I think he honestly would have been okay. But the girl at the vet's office was like yelling at him like he was doing the shepherd, like little teeth, front of teeth, like please stay away from me. Like not growling but like showing teeth, like almost kind of submissive you know what I'm talking about but like I'm gonna growl and snap if you move closer to me. And she was like no, no, we don't do that here. No, and she was getting the like fabric muzzle and like slapping his nose. No, really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I was like don't worry, we're going to reschedule, like we'll come back at the end of the training. She's like, yeah, well, I'm glad this dog is with a trainer because like he, he's definitely going to bite. She was just like making it way worse. And he's definitely going to bite. She was just like making it way worse and I was like, no worries, we're going to go. Um, so yeah, we kind of started on like the wrong foot there, but right away he was like looking at me like hello, can we leave? And so I was like let's go. Like I see that you're uncomfy, don't worry, I don't like this either, we're going to go. And so I feel like we established a relationship just in that moment.
Speaker 1:But even with that, you know, I had, um, I had zoe. She like hopped out of the van when I was like pottying him one time and zoe walked up to him and he's starting to get really stiff and I was like zoe, go like, go, move away. And zoe's like old lady now who like does not listen to me at all, and she's just like standing right next to him, just like just being zoe, and he like snaps at her, you know. And so I like pull him back and he's like getting ready to snap at me and I'm like, no, no, no, we are not gonna do this. So we had like those moments where it's like, okay, you're definitely a dog that's like willing to bite.
Speaker 1:So my approach is I I'm not going to push you, I'm literally not going to ask anything of you. I kept the leash on in the crate. You know, I have the little clip, so I just clip it to the outside of the door. He wasn't like chewing the leash or anything, and that way there's not even conflict of me putting my hands close to your face. Yeah, you know, I'm not going to ask you to do obedience. I'm not going to correct you, I'm literally just going to. I'm not even going to talk to you or look at you, you know, because that's what those dogs want, those dogs that are like fear, reactive, like they want to be invisible. You know, just like how you're telling him like, hey, just have people ignore him. Yeah, do not approach him, do not give him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, do not give him eye contact.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like don't say hi to him, like that's what he wants, yeah, so as and then he feels confident enough to be like, okay, and then he'll go check things out, yeah his own time and I also think, like dogs know like when you're standing there with a dog and you're like, stay over there, don't look at him, like they know that you're advocating for them, like they're not stupid, they are able to like read situations, even if they don't like fully understand our language, you know, but like they understand what's going on, they can read, they can read the room, yeah, so that's like how we can establish like that trust and that leadership yeah, that rapport yeah with dogs like that is like those little moments where we're like advocating for their space and being like, hey, I'm not gonna push you here, I'm not gonna correct you here, but I'm also not gonna let you be stupid yeah, and that's how I try and go about, like all my reactive dogs that are more fear reactive is like I try to like limit my corrections as much as possible now, but I do give them.
Speaker 2:I'm like we're still gonna walk through this like area. You don't like yeah, I'm not mad, I'm just gonna like let you do it. I'm not gonna correct you constantly, but if you really pop off, you're going to get a correction. I'm going to say heal and move forward. But it takes time and handling and having those dogs to understand that. He was like a very big learning curve for me and I was like, ah, okay, I like understand more about this dog now and it's nice to have like so many different trainers out there.
Speaker 2:That like I mean, instagram is crazy, like it's way too much sometimes. And obviously, like when you're training dogs or you get a new dog and you're looking up trainers, like it's a lot, there's a, there's a lot of people talking on Instagram all the time and TikTok and you're just like this is too much. Yeah, it's too much information, but at the same time, you have so much information. So if you put the work in and you go and you, you know, watch a few different people's like online presence and you walk through their videos. You can kind of like pick and choose who you like and why, and I follow like a lot of different trainers online and like subscribe to their pages and done all of that and then been like actually I don't think this quite resonates with me enough Like I'd rather spend this $15 at this person's instead. Yeah, so that's kind of where I'm at now, and now I'm starting to like curate like what I want to do with training.
Speaker 2:So like my next step is probably like detection work. So I have another outlet. So it's like, okay, what trainer should I look for with that? And then I start getting into that realm. I'm like I don't really like how that trainer does it. I like that, that. And then it's going to be like, yeah, going to seminars and like go check out Michael Ellis and like go to see what I like from these different places and then kind of create your own method. And it's not about like replicating any one trainers like method exactly, but I do think it's about educating yourself and getting out there and being way to do it. And there's one trainer that does it really well and they post the most and they have a lot of followers, so like that must be the way. And it's like yeah, it's not. And you're also only seeing one part of it online. So it's like yeah, that trainer is doing that method, but like you don't see what else goes into that in the other days, and like how many reps they're putting in.
Speaker 1:So owners will watch that and then be like I'm going to do that, and it's like no, you know, what's funny is everybody looks at Toma's videos with Hawk and they're like, oh my gosh, can you guys train my dog to do that? And I'm like you do not want a dog like Hawk. Like you do not see how he is, like 97% of the time, like the 3% when he's in obedience and doing a fancy heel, like, yes, it looks so cool, it looks so great, but like that is not. That is not how Hawk is at all.
Speaker 2:And I think it's good to have like the scary dogs that look nice, like even Koda.
Speaker 2:When I bring him out in sessions, people like compliment me a lot on him and I'm like out in sessions, people like compliment me a lot on him and I'm like this is very handsome, he's a beautiful dog and he does listen.
Speaker 2:Like we are out, we are training, I can put him in a down and like work reactive dogs around him. He doesn't move. He trusts me to handle the situation now and people were like that's really nice, like it's great, and I was like yeah, but this was like years of money and time and like I put in the hours to like learn the different training stuff and then I applied it and then if it didn't work, I adjusted and that's like why you hire trainers right, so you don't have to do all that work because you don't want to do that. But then you get pet dog owners who like they want that stuff and then you tell them how to do it and then they don't practice and you're like guys like it's not going to get fixed if you're just like doing the sessions for two weeks and then you don't practice it after, that dog doesn't just learn.
Speaker 2:So it's also just like putting the time in and it's not a lot of time. I had a client last week and she's like, well, how much do I have to do this? And I was like I don't know, like 10, 15 minutes in the morning and do it one more time in the evening and make sure your dog gets a lot of engagement during the day and like play with them and enjoy your dog. And she's like, oh, I like that. I was like, yeah, yeah, because I stopped enjoying coda at some point because I was so like he's not doing what I need him to. He was reactive today and I was hard on him and didn't play with him this is a very common thing.
Speaker 1:I was actually talking to cassidy about this recently. She was like I am like just now enjoying my dogs because, like when she was coming up in training, like just the environment that she was in. It was like never give your dog affection if they're still reactive or if they have behavioral issues, like never let them sniff, like basically their whole life is just like on leash in heel and I'm like that sucks, like that's not why you got a dog and like I understand that, like it's different with dogs with behavioral issues, but you still have to learn to enjoy your dog.
Speaker 2:and also, very important, not take it personally, you know that's the hardest part is the emotions around it sometimes for people, yeah, yeah, but I mean, even with behavioral dogs, like and it sucks because like, unfortunately, with all like the off leash dogs everywhere, like it is scary out there sometimes. And I feel for people like Coda and I got attacked literally a month ago at the park and he was like a monster for another week and then we worked through it and he's fine now but and he recovers faster now because now I know what I'm doing, so I can get him back out of it.
Speaker 2:But like he met my neighbor's dog and like was not nice to her and I was like okay, that's because this just happened. I was surprised. I was like whoa, and she was so neutral and so good and her owner's like I'm so sorry. I was like where my dog just like totally wrapped his whole mouth around the dog's neck, just like a little like.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to see if I can do that. I had a point and I already forgot it. The ADD is real. A dog attacked him. You can get back to it quicker now, Nope it's gone. That's okay, she's gone. She's gone, it's late, it's late. I put Lex on podcast duty today because Toma's out working and he's like oh God, I'm going to bed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're literally reorganizing the van and I was like what's in that box and she's like podcast stuff and I was like oh, we're going to put that away, though she's like no, I have to do that tonight.
Speaker 1:I was like oh God, and she's like you want to be on it, but I think we had a good conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think, long story short, though, even with this is what I was getting at, it came back to me Okay, even with a behavioral dog, like find ways to give your dog some freedom when you're out and like enjoy playing with them. So with Coda, like the flexi lease was a big thing for me. I like don't like giving flexes to everybody because I don't trust people with them. Yeah, but with Coda, like I don't. Your dog has like wayward was just talking uh, wayward training. I was over with him in grass Valley and Bonnie was like talking about how your dog has a natural trot and when, when your dog is in heel, you're not letting them do that. So you're kind of like you have to stay next to me. We're walking slower. Dogs are naturally like kind of like jogging is their natural pace. So when we're asking them to heal all the time, it's not like we're fast walking in it, right. So she mentions like just let your dog kind of go ahead of you and have the recall ability to be able to call your dog back. Or if they're behind you, that's fine, as long as they don't always have to be right next to, and for me the flexi is nice. So I have a little bit of control still.
Speaker 2:But coda can go out and still enjoy his walk, smell things do I let him mark everywhere? No, because he's a dominant dog like I don't need him marking everywhere. But is he allowed to go smell things? Like yeah, that's kind of the point of the walk. I'm not trying to do long walks. They need to be like short and enriching, but then also like find how to find out how to play with your dog, like learn how to tug with your dog and like figure that out and like code is a big bite guy. So like that's what we do now Instead of a full walk, I'll just take my bite toys out and we'll go play bite, like we'll go tug for a while in the backyard.
Speaker 2:And that has been totally awesome for him because he's gassed after like 15 minutes. It makes him want to come play with me. It changed his recall because now he wants to like come back to play with me and I learned how to like back away from him instead of always taking toys from him, like letting him win. Yeah, all these little things really changed our dynamic as well. So he wants to play with me more and he's like more silly with me now. Yeah, and he was serious with me for a while because I was really hard on him and it's like I loosened up and now he's kind of like. He's like a jokester now a little bit. I'm like oh okay, you still got some personality in there, yeah you want to act how you want your dogs to act.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, enjoy your dogs, enjoy, enjoy them, enjoy your dogs. That sums it all up. You got anything else you want to add?
Speaker 2:No, no, that was plenty, lots of yapping Good Good, oh, my gosh.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for being here. I hope you guys enjoyed our conversation and we'll see you next time.