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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
From Reactivity to Relaxation: Your Dog Training Questions Answered
Dog trainers Meg and Thoma tackle your most pressing canine questions in this comprehensive Q&A episode packed with practical solutions for common behavioral challenges.
When it comes to getting dogs to truly settle down, they reveal why constant food rewards often backfire, creating dogs that stare intensely rather than genuinely relax. Their tethering approach offers a refreshingly different alternative to the overused "place" command, allowing dogs to find calm on their own terms without the pressure of perfect obedience. "It's almost like forced meditation," Meg explains, highlighting how this technique helps dogs learn self-soothing skills that transfer to real-world situations.
For those struggling with rescue dogs, their counterintuitive advice might surprise you: play hard to get. "The harder you try, the harder it gets," Meg shares, comparing relationship-building to those finger traps from childhood. Rather than forcing affection, they advocate for patient coexistence and discovering what genuinely brings your specific dog joy—not what you think dogs should enjoy. This approach respects a dog's need to feel invisible at times while building genuine trust.
The episode dives deep into tool selection, crate training philosophies, and managing reactivity with nuanced approaches that consider each dog's temperament and developmental stage. Their discussion on van life with multiple dogs provides fascinating insights into creating sustainable routines in limited spaces, emphasizing the importance of insulation, power management, and organizational systems designed around canine needs.
What sets this episode apart is the trainers' refreshingly honest perspective drawn from real-world experience rather than idealistic theories. Whether you're struggling with a reactive puppy, considering a second dog, or simply trying to understand why your training efforts aren't sticking, you'll find actionable guidance grounded in decades of hands-on work with thousands of dogs. Tune in to transform your relationship with your four-legged companion through clear communication and realistic expectations.
Hello and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. Today is our Q&A podcast, so we are going to dive into all of your questions. I posted on Instagram, so you guys submitted your questions, and we're going to run through all of them in this episode. You know the drill Grab yourself a tasty drink and meet us back here. Hey guys, welcome back. We missed last week, but we're're here again. Had to take a little break. I'm joined with toma.
Speaker 2:Say hi, toma hello, hello, back on track yeah, back on track.
Speaker 1:I had to bribe him with coffee, so coffee is our tasty drink. Wake up early, record podcast, because toma can't stay up late. I much rather the morning podcast. Toma can't stay up late.
Speaker 2:I much rather the morning podcast.
Speaker 1:Toma can't stay up late, so if I want Toma on the podcast, we have to record it in the morning. So here we are.
Speaker 2:Thank you, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Last week I asked all of you guys to submit your questions for the podcast. We got an overwhelming amount of questions, so we're going to try and run through as many as we can. I've gone ahead and selected the questions that I get most frequently. So every Monday on my Instagram I do a Q&A. I'm obviously not able to get to everybody, but a lot of the times these questions are pretty repetitive. You guys are all kind of, you know, curious about the same things, so let's go ahead and dive right into it. Our first question is how do I get my dog to settle and settle without barking for attention about this?
Speaker 1:In our community she had a young Dutch Shepherd puppy that she was struggling with. You know the balance between creating a working dog and doing bite work and stuff like that, plus having like a chill pet dog. So everything that she had been doing was really active in obedience, so she was doing a lot of food rewards for settling in a down. But she said that she had been doing was really active in obedience, so she was doing a lot of food rewards for settling in a down, but she said that she basically just has a dog. That's like staring into her soul and waiting for, like that, next piece of food. So for me that's not actually a settled dog, right? That's like that's pretty heavy in obedience. Like that's pretty heavy in obedience you might be able to get focused for a while.
Speaker 1:But I think it's really valuable to teach our dogs to settle away from constant reinforcement like food, right. Sometimes we think that food rewards are going to solve a lot of our problems, but I think it's really, really valuable to have our dogs settle even if we're not standing next to them constantly dropping food between their paws, right? So our solution for this is to tether your dog. I love tethering. I almost prefer tethering over place, or you can do both. You can tether your your dog on place, but essentially it's just putting a leash on your dog and tying them back to something. You could, you know, close the leash in the door or wrap it around a doorknob. Maybe you have something that you can, like a piece of furniture or something that you can tie the dog back to.
Speaker 2:But restraining the dog on leash and allowing them to kind of settle on their own, I feel like is really important yeah, I'd make sure that there's nothing around the dog like in that general area that he can like chew on, like satiate. Because essentially you want the dog to reach a state of like boredom on his own where he actually just like relaxes boredom on his own where he actually just like relaxes, right, and if there's, like you know, um pillows or whatever like with a working dog, they'll end up like just chewing yeah and yeah, and the reason why I don't like place as much for settling.
Speaker 1:I think it's super valuable, right, like I think pretty much every dog trainer teaches place. But I feel like it's become a little bit of a crutch right Like, oh, your dog is doing this, put them on place. Or your dog is doing this, put them on place. But the practical aspect of place is you have to hold your dog accountable to it a hundred percent of the time, and I just don't think that most people are capable of that. And so then place becomes a spot for your dog to be disobedient, right, because we're putting them in a command and we're saying, hey, you have to stay here, and eventually they break. We don't hold them accountable to it. So the dog learns okay, well, I don't really have to listen to the commands that she gives me, I can do whatever I want. And so then place becomes the opposite of what we want it to.
Speaker 1:And in the beginning of my dog training career, I feel like I relied very heavily on place, like I was like oh my gosh. Well, owner, you need to put your dog on place. If somebody's coming over, you need to put your dog on place. But the reality of it is most people are struggling with their dog's behavior and reaching out to dog trainers because they're not holding their dogs accountable to the things that they're asking of them. So when our solution is like, oh, put your dog in obedience command, essentially, and hold them accountable to that, it just becomes a spot for your dog to be disobedient. So I would prefer a tether where you're not really putting your dog in command. You're just like preventing. You're physically preventing them from wandering all over the place, getting into things right, and in the beginning they probably are going to bark and whine for sure, but do not, it's almost like forced meditation, like you force the dog to stay there and eventually they will calm down and settle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but don't go over and like pet the dog or talk to the dog, or like give them attention when they're barking. They're essentially just trying to figure out what's going to work, right. They're like, ok, well, I can bark at mom and she comes in, you know will pet me or be like, oh, you're OK, you're OK it. And she comes in, you know will pet me or be like, oh, you're okay, you're okay, it's okay. And then that's, you're just like reinforcing that barking, so waiting for the dog to settle, and then you can go over and you know, release the dog. Settling is the ticket to getting what you want. Barking and throwing a temper tantrum, that's.
Speaker 2:That's not going to get you very far yeah, so you want to be sure you you release the dog based on its state of mind yep, we talked about this yesterday, tova yeah, that was basically like my sporty session um, where we were differentiating like the fancy sport down, where he's in like this perfect sphinx position and he's like very intently staring at me, which kind of is exactly what your client, you know, had this dog, yeah it's like hyper fixating versus my pet down where, like I use a separate command and then you actually want the hips to kind of like plop on the side and it's like a lot more relaxed of a position yeah
Speaker 1:because he knows he's not going to get like rewarded, like with food or a ball, from that position yeah, and so the, the person that was working with toma was, like you were working on neutrality around a decoy, so hawk, his, his, like sport dog, is super amped up to bite, right like that's like his favorite thing ever. And so what's the ticket to you biting or getting what you want? Is you settling I'm never gonna let you get what you want until you are in that state of mind. Essentially which is interesting because I know it's very um, I know people say you can't reinforce like a dog state of mind, but I I definitely think you can you can like.
Speaker 1:I think that's like literally everything that I do like even yeah, exactly in.
Speaker 2:In simpler terms, and like the pet world, it would just be like you break, you release the dog and you know, maybe that once they're settled, yeah once they're settled, it's not the behavior, it's the state of mind.
Speaker 2:Right, you can reinforce the state of mind and that's absolutely a reward on its own and, like for hawk, all like petting him is a lot lower value than like a food reward or, you know, a tug. So if I'm going to reward that state of mind, it would be with, like, very calm pets. But that might be too much for a pet dog as well yeah, I like this one.
Speaker 1:How to build a relationship with my rescue dog. I would say take your time, do not force the relationship. In the beginning I always say I don't. This is such like a 90s kid thing. But those little like chinese finger traps where the harder you try the harder you try, you can't like get it off.
Speaker 1:Um, that's how dog training is like the harder that you try, you have to play hard to get a little bit. So I am not super affectionate with dogs because I find that very few dogs like genuinely enjoy human affection. I think it's different if it's like your dog, you know. But even like lucy like lucy she'll come on her own terms. She'll come on her own terms, but it's not like she's like oh, I love affection.
Speaker 1:There's other ways that I show my dogs that I love them, like doing things that they like, like taking them swimming or letting Lucy run in a field. Zoe is a dog who really likes affection. But I feel like right off the bat, if we try to force affection on a dog or force the dog to do too many things, they're not going to like us. Affection on a dog or force the dog to like do too many things, they're not going to like us. Like we have to play hard to get and a lot of insecure dogs they could be rescue or not. They want to feel invisible, right? They do not want your attention, they want to come to you. So give the dog the space to be able to come to you. Don't be constantly like, oh, come here, you know, like they don't like that.
Speaker 2:They really don't. Yeah, I think people want to like rush the relationship because they want to be sure that they got, you know, a cool shelter dog and that they have a bond. But I think when you bring a new dog in your home, the plan should be, you know, to keep him for his lifetime and then, if you view it that way, you have the dog, you have a lifetime, yeah, you can really take your time with everything.
Speaker 1:There's no rush, no rush.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I I wouldn't jump like right into training, I would really take your time, just like existing with that dog, just coexisting with the dog.
Speaker 1:And let's say you do have like a pretty confident dog, figure out with that dog, just coexisting with the dog, and let's say you do have like a pretty confident dog, figure out what that dog likes and do what that dog likes. Don't just go off of like what you think dogs should like. Right, Like dogs roll over all the time and we're like, oh, they want their belly rubbed and it's like they don't really want their belly rubbed but like that's what we think dogs want. So make sure that you're not going off of like your preconceived you know notions around like dogs and really focus in on like you know, trying to get to know the dog in front of you and reading their body language and you know seeing how they react if you play fetch with them or play tug with them or just hang out with them. Figure out what that dog likes, do more of that and be slow to get into the obedience training or even the behavioral mod In the beginning when we have rescue dogs, like river, for example.
Speaker 2:It's like he's just on a flexi yeah, I think the most important thing is to establish like a routine, so you know, just to create routine the feeding schedule.
Speaker 1:I love a routine routine, oh my gosh. Routine is so important for new dogs, new dogs, new we get like client dogs in. It's so, so helpful in providing clear expectations. So a good example of like a routine for us is we'll go out and do something, whether it's an active training session where we're like teaching skills or obedience, or I'm just, you know, letting them off on a flexi or you know whatever. When you come back into the crate, I'm always going to give you something. I'm going to give you a bowl of water, I'm going to give you a little handful of treats. I'm going to give you your meal for the day. You know, like I'm always going to give you something, because I like the routine of like, okay, we're playing outside. As soon as you come back in, you're going to go straight into the crate. You're going to get something. So that dog is super motivated and knows what to expect as soon as they get into the crate. Right, the crate is a good thing and I tell people like we obviously live in vans, but people who live in homes, I don't like the dog's roughhousing inside Like, as soon as you walk through the doors, you need to be calm. So setting that expectation in that routine of how do I set the dog up to succeed? Right, so you come in from outside. Let's say you have multiple dogs, they're roughhousing. How do we disrupt that? Well, you might need to have leashes on, you might need to do some tethering, you might need to crate them, create those routines and habits around the behaviors that you want, and for especially an insecure or a nervous dog, if they know, okay, all I have to do is come inside and then I go into the crate and then I get fed. They love that, they love the routine.
Speaker 1:Mayan, the Malinois shepherd that we had, that's the type of dog that he was. He was really lacking a lot of structure back at home and because of that he was anxious, right, and starting to use aggression to create space, like it's basically just an unruly child who is acting out because he's not been given enough structure back at home. And so what we do with Mayan is we get him on that routine of like okay, first thing in the morning we let all the dogs out separately, you go on your flexi, you go potty, whatever. You come back in, we're going to give you water, right, hang out in the crate for a little bit, and you know I don't want to let the dogs like rough house after drinking water or eating food. So they chill in the crate for a bit and then we'll take them out and we'll do like a training session with them or we'll go for a structured walk with them and then we come back in, they go into the crate.
Speaker 1:I give them a handful of treats, right. So getting into that routine is super, super helpful for those dogs, especially ones that are insecure or maybe have been a little bit feral. Yeah, you know, like we don't really know their backstory, but they don't seem to know humans in that way. Yeah, too, too much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if you're consistent, it's very, very fast. You know that the dogs catch onto the routine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they like that, like they like the predictability. I think people do too. You know, like that's something that I've been thinking about, like that we're in vans, it's like okay.
Speaker 1:if, thinking about like that we're in vans, it's like okay, if we're really gonna do this, like we need to have something like we need to have a routine some sort of routine because it like, even if it's just like, you know, if we took like five minutes in the morning to like meditate or like go for a walk, you know like I feel like just that something that's like consistent every day would help with our mental health.
Speaker 2:Five minutes to ourselves, not just the dog's routine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, crazy, I'll let you know when we do that, because that hasn't happened yet. But you feel it, you know. Yeah, I do think, and even like you waking up and going running, you're like, wow, that was amazing.
Speaker 2:That was amazing.
Speaker 1:You know that you waking up and going running you're like, wow, that was amazing, that was amazing. You know, that's like how our dogs feel when we like do a morning walk with them every day being fulfilled.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's just like they know what to look forward to. They know what to expect helps them build confidence. What are your thoughts on prong collars? Yay or nay? I love prong collars. I think prong collars Yay or nay, I love prong collars. I think prong collars are one of the best tools that you can use with dogs. I think it's genuinely one of the safest tools. The people who are anti-prong collar have just never used a prong collar. I've never, ever, ever put a prong collar on a dog, handed that dog to the owner and the owner been like I don't like this, like the second they use it.
Speaker 2:They're like, oh, that's it, and I'm like yeah yeah, that's literally it a lot more control of like two fingers yeah, just way less pressure, you know.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, if you have a dog who is a heavy puller, I definitely recommend a pr collar. We don't want that dog to be choking themselves on a leash. The reason why I love slip leads so much is because I found that it's the most sustainable tool for most of the people that I work with. People just don't like to use prong collars. I think they're kind of a pain in the ass to take on and off and they don't look nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I think maybe initially the owners are like wow, this is great.
Speaker 1:And then probably they, you know, once the dog is like trained, they're like, okay, well, I don't want to use this thing anymore. And then they go back to like a slip lead so.
Speaker 1:I started using slip leads more and training dogs on slip leads because of that reason, right like I don't want to train the dog on something that the owner is not going to continue to use. And also I was spending so much money on prong collars because they're not cheap, you know. And so I'm handing out these like $60 collars to everybody, and then the next time I see the dog, I'm like where's our prong? And they're like oh, I don't know.
Speaker 1:And I'm like well at least give it back to me. You know, like if you're not going to use it, can I have it back. But yeah, I really, really love prong collars. I have yet to meet a trainer that I look up to and respect who does not use prongs.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, I've never met a trainer that's like I feel is better than me, who is anti-prompt collar.
Speaker 2:Yeah no for sure. I think it's going back to like the. It's very interesting. People like wanting to wean off tools because it's like one of those things where like, okay, you don't need it like 95% of the time, but it could be useful that extra 5%, and people kind of just wean off tools, like once the dog is quote-unquote trained yeah, and I don't have prong collars on my dogs.
Speaker 1:But let's say I'm doing something where I need that like extra bit of control, like, for example, if I'm doing a training session with sometimes I use the prong collar because it's like very gentle, directional guidance. You know, it's very clear pressure on and off for the dogs.
Speaker 2:A dog like moose, he's huge yep, we would be jet skiing behind, we would literally be jet skiing behind him if he was on a flat collar. Yeah, for sure yeah, and we experienced that as well I think it's one of those things too, like depending on the location that we go.
Speaker 1:Like if we're going to go in a super busy area, like I'll put walter on a prong collar, then I know I have like added control, like in a city setting yeah, because they're just not going to put as much force on a prong collar that they are a flat collar and dogs have what's called opposition reflex, so they're naturally going to pull against whatever it is that we're like pulling them on, and that's why dogs like pull forward right is because we are pulling them back and they're gonna push, pull in the opposite direction, but one of it's one of those things you still have to teach, because dogs, you do still have to teach.
Speaker 2:Dogs very much will pull through a prong collar and get desensitized to the feeling, so it's important to use the tool adequately, obviously.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, we love prong collars. All right, super friendly dog, but alert barks at people and dogs when we're walked up in secluded spots. I don't really think that's the end of the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the dog gets startled and you know there's nobody around and all of a sudden there's someone.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'll take it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I personally would not correct that. Your dog probably is just like not super confident. You know they're not trying. 90% of me says they're not trying to like protect you. They're just like startled by somebody walking up on you. I I don't hate that. The only issue would be if you can't get them to stop yeah, like, what's the recovery time of?
Speaker 1:like yeah are they like losing it and you're like okay, like stop, no, and they're like still going off at the person and like hackles up and like stressed out, then we probably need to work on that. But I'm not opposed to dogs barking when people walk up on me. You know, yeah, for sure, as long as you have a cue that you can be like okay, stop or no. Or you know like, if Minka is like barking at somebody, I can be like Minka, no, and she'll be like okay, okay, yeah, you know. So I'm not. I'm not opposed to that. I'm not opposed to dogs barking. I'm not opposed to that. I'm not opposed to dogs barking. I'm not opposed to dogs barking in the house either. I kind of like that, as long as you can tell them to stop and they're not like being too much with people.
Speaker 1:And that's something you can like work on and play. You know, my sporty answer would be like teach the dog to bark and then you can easier transition to like teach the dog to stop barking. Yeah, okay, how long do you think is a healthy amount of time to leave a dog home alone in a crate?
Speaker 2:it depends what you're doing with the dog the rest of the time, like is the dog just you know out on the couch or was he like properly exercised the rest of the day? Like, did he go on a walk? Did he get you know his zoomies out?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's, like you know, part of the equation there as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think kind of like the best routine for people. Let's say you work like a typical eight hour day, wake up first thing in the morning, you do something active with your dog, you do a training session, you take them to go run around in a field like something that that dog enjoys. You come back in, feed them in the crate, give them water, that sort of thing. They hang out in the crate until about midday. If you can't come home and let your dog out, then hire a dog walker to come and break up your eight hour day. So you know, lunchtime dog walker or trainer.
Speaker 1:One thing that I'm encouraging a lot of the dog trainers that I'm helping to do is a daily training program which is basically like an hour long session every day with a dog. And I think it's really good for people with busy schedules like that, because that's a lot like an hour long training day with a dog. And I think it's really good for people with busy schedules like that, because that's a lot Like an hour long training session with a dog is like super fulfilling for them. They'll be gassed, yeah, they're going to be gassed. So you know, break that up either with a walk or a training session in the middle of the day. If you can't do it, hire it out and then the dog goes back into the crate. You come home, you take the dog out, you do something active with them you know, training session, fulfillment, whatever and then they can, you know, hang out with you for the rest of the evening. I think that's a perfect day for somebody who works yeah, it has a nine to five yeah.
Speaker 1:So eight hours is that's a long time for a dog to chill in a crate and not be broken up. I like to do four hours max. But let's say there's an emergency and like your dog does have to sit in the crate for eight hours, they're going to be OK, like it's not the end of the world for that to happen every now and then. You know, obviously that's not ideal. That's not why we get dogs, but shit happens sometimes and they're going to have to stay in it longer on those days.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:But if you can, if you work full time or you're out of the house one day for a long time, I definitely recommend hiring a dog walker or trainer for those days. I can come and break up that crate time and we're also big on crates. So if you're not home to supervise your dog, they should be in the crate. And this is one of those things that people want to fight me on all the time.
Speaker 1:But dogs die Like dogs die all the time because they get into things. You know, and you can have the best dog in the whole world. We had a dog that you know was super chilled, never had any issues, and he got into the trash and he ate medication and he died. Like that sucks, you know. And that person didn't want to create their dog because they like worked long days and so they felt bad. And I get that, but like what's worse? Yeah, you know so, and I also think too, I do get a lot of people from other countries who are like that's horrible, why would you create your dog for that long?
Speaker 1:but I just think, like in the us we work so much, like we work so much way other countries do you know, like a typical work day in the us is like eight hours, you know, and you're also driving like 40 minutes to and from work and like that is is viewed as normal. And so I get people from other countries who are like that's horrible, like why would you leave your dog in a box, and I'm like I get that, but also like life is just so different yeah, it's a different reality it's a completely different reality.
Speaker 1:Like I remember one lady messaged me and she was like I don't understand americans and why they feel the need to like put their dog in a box all day. Like my dog gets to spend all day out in the garden.
Speaker 1:And like I go to her page and it's like this super rich like lady who lives in europe with this like huge yard, and I'm like okay, that sounds amazing that sounds great, you know, but like not a lot of people have that and like live in a space where you can just like leave your dog outside if you decide to leave your house, you know oh for sure so like trying to explain that to people who, like, aren't in the us.
Speaker 1:I'm like, listen, it's crazy over here, yeah, but it's not fun for us either, like the working eight hours a day type stuff. Okay, how can I keep a dog from wanting to bite my whole hand while handling food and training? This is on how you're holding the food and how we're rewarding the dog. So essentially, what you're going to do is you're going to have your palm facing up with a flat hand and you're going to put the piece of kibble kind of below your pointer finger, next to your thumb, and you're going to close your thumb over that piece of food and you're going to flip your hand so that it's palmed down to the ground and that's how you're going to reward. So think of like a horse, right, when we're like feeding a horse, we do flat hand because we don't want to put our entire hand in the horse's mouth. Same thing with dogs. So we have a super flat palm and then whenever the dog's nose is pressed up against that piece of food, we're going to move our thumb out of the way. So it's a skill in itself.
Speaker 1:Some dogs are great and some dogs are like nipping at the palm of your hand. It just takes practice, right. So we always want to release the food when the dog is taking food in the way that we like. What happens a lot of the time is we're holding the piece of kibble between our pointer and our thumb and we're trying to get the dog to take the food and then the dog puts its entire mouth around our hand and we're, you know, trying to get the dog to take the food and then the dog puts its entire mouth around our hand and we're gonna ow and we drop the food and the dog gets rewarded. So you're like accidentally reinforcing that dog putting their entire mouth over your hand. So don't release that piece of food until the dog is taking it gently from your hand or, you know, not doing that, not nipping your hand, that sort of thing.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you could also put a leash on the dog. So I'll do like leash pressure on maybe some like leash pops, while the dog is like being too much to get the food, you know so like hey, no, like that's too much, and then they'll be gentle and then I'll, you know, mark and release the food in that way. Next, seven month old doing fairly well with leash walking on prong, but not translating to flat collar and slip lead.
Speaker 2:That ties into what we were talking about earlier Just wanting to lean off the training tools too soon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and seven month old, like, come on, it's just a baby, just a baby. Uh, yeah, I mean I would continue to use your prong collar. There's not really a need to get rid of it just yet and we also don't want to reinforce, like the dog putting pressure on the leash and getting to move forward. I don't think people understand how consistent you have to be with that Like. I will never allow the dogs to put pressure on the leash and move forward if we're doing loose lead walking. So if you put pressure on the leash I'm going to move the other way, no matter what.
Speaker 1:And it's probably the case that the dog is allowed to put pressure on the slip lead and keep moving forward. So you can definitely train the dog on the slip lead. But the issue is there's not really a big consequence for your dog putting pressure on a slip lead versus a prong right. It's a little uncomfy for your dog to put pressure on a prong, so there's a consequence there when they do, whereas with a slip lead versus a prong right, it's a little uncomfy for your dog to put pressure on a prong, so there's a consequence there when they do, whereas with a slip or a flat they're like slip leash e-collar combo yeah that's the way to go yeah, eventually, but the dog's still seven months old, so I feel like, oh, they have time, plenty of time, you have time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I would personally like just start working on loose lead walking at that point yeah depending on the size of the dog, like with moose yeah, I get that you have to start younger because he's just big dog.
Speaker 1:Big dog, he would drag us down the street. What are the most important training and lifestyle things to teach a puppy between four to six months?
Speaker 2:lifestyle. I mean, first of all, I'd say, build confidence.
Speaker 1:You definitely want a confident puppy yeah, but I feel like that's such a blanket statement fair people don't know what yeah how to build confidence.
Speaker 1:um okay, so personally for me, for the first year of the dog's life, I don't put a lot of like restrictions on them, and this is one of the ways that we can build confidence in our puppies. But another thing that I've really noticed, and especially this is a bit exaggerated, because we're living out of vans and I'm raising muffin, my puppy she's about five months old right now living out of vans and I'm raising Muffin, my puppy she's about five months old right now. It's crazy how frequently you have to take them out and expose them to new things because they're developing so fast. So let's say, we go two days without like taking Muffin out in a new environment. I feel like she is like reactive Yep.
Speaker 1:You know, like we literally have to take her out every single day because she's growing so, so fast and I think I saw it with Moose. So Moose is the board and train that we have and he's younger I think he's around seven months now but they live in Arizona. It's super hot. I don't think that they've been able to take him out a lot, which kind of goes like if you're gonna get a puppy, I would get a puppy. Like when you can take them out. So if you're living in a hot state like that, like I would get a puppy in the winter so that you can actually like do things with them.
Speaker 1:Because when we got moose, like he had no exposure, it was so obvious like anytime we would take him to a park. He's like whoa, what the heck is this? He couldn't walk on leash, which is a problem for a dog his size. He's a big boy. When we don't take our dogs out for months or weeks at a time, I notice how quickly the dogs regress, and so with muffin, we've literally been taking her out as many places as possible to get her exposed, like to everything in as many environments environments as possible you know and like out in public with like people and like getting her like seeing things like motorcycles, cars frequently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, frequently, because if we don't do it for like a couple days, she like goes back yeah, like if we go out in nature and we're in the woods and then go back to like civilization whoa the hustle and bustle yeah, and that's that's been kind of crazy to watch too is because, like we will go out into the middle of nowhere and then we like go into a city so that we can do some training, because we have to, like we have to do some training around like people and cars and bikes and stuff, and like she's so bad those first couple days, like she's barking at everybody and she's like losing it, you know, and it's like, oh shit, we got to get back into our routine and to make that more relatable to like most people, it's like a dog that's mainly in the backyard versus a dog that you take out on walks yeah, but walks, not structured walks.
Speaker 1:Personally, I wouldn't be doing structured walks until like six months old, unless the dog is like really big and they're going to be like dragging you down the street. I would do things like flexi walks or like going to the park and just kind of like letting the dog roam on the Flexi, or going to the park and doing training sessions. For me, training sessions with like a dog, that age is not really going to be obedience, it's more so going to be like the play, playing tug with that dog, playing fetch with that dog, you know, having the dog chase a food lure or a ball, or like building up some sort of engagement and play with that dog.
Speaker 1:And I feel like I I kind of noticed this at like I think it was shane's bite work um like group clasting yeah, it was like, okay, just play with your dog, no obedience, right, like that was kind of where most people were at Don't ask anything from your dog, just play with them, play, play, play, play, play. Because a lot of them were in a new environment and so they were very like, nervous, they were nervous dogs. And so Shane's like, okay, no obedience, stop doing obedience, just play with the dog, and even with you with Hawk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I go back to that a lot.
Speaker 1:The other day, shane was like no obedience, just play with him, just play tug with him. Out him yes, tug, tug, tug, tug, tug. Out. Yes, tug, tug, tug, tug, tug. Like not mixing obedience in. A lot of people are doing too much obedience. Because that's what we think of when we think of dog training, right, because that's what we think of when we think of dog training, right. So they're doing too much obedience and it's restricting the dog a little bit too much.
Speaker 2:just let the dog rip yeah, a flexi is going to be your best friend that those first couple of months of a puppy is kind of similar as far as like relationship building, as the earlier question goes with the shelter dog like yeah, maybe you got an older shelter dog, but same concept applies first you got to build the relationship yeah, yeah, uh, but yeah, confidence building, playing with the puppy in different environments kind of dialing in your like your marker.
Speaker 2:Right, you do need a way of communicating with the dog, but it's not to reward For obedience. Yeah, sit down, it's just for play and engagement, basically.
Speaker 1:And then, of course, the basics, which is going to be potty training and crate training.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just that is huge.
Speaker 1:Don't ease up on your crate training. At six months old, everybody does that, everybody does that and they call a dog trainer at you know, 14 months and they're like my dog is really bad and destroying my house, and it's like you use a crate.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we used to, though we used to, but we stopped.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, can you imagine muffin without a crate?
Speaker 2:terror terror.
Speaker 1:Okay, what age for a dog or a puppy do you start e-collar training? It really depends. Uh, I don't like to e-collar train a dog that has no foundation, right? So if I get a seven month old dog that can't walk on a leash, that doesn't know markers, that has no engagement with me, I personally don't like to jump to e-collar. I know that, like that is not the typical thing for a lot of dog trainers. I know tons of people who are like I love the e-collar, I'm gonna do e-collar. I personally like to teach leash first and then e-collar.
Speaker 2:Some people do it at the same time yeah, I think layering e-collar after it is a lot easier yeah, but not everybody does that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um. So yeah, it really just depends. Personally, like with my dogs, I don't do a lot of e-collar conditioning until like eight months, I would say, but it depends on the maturity of the dog, what sort of foundations we have, what my expectations are.
Speaker 1:Uh, I'll probably start e-collar training muffin fairly soon yeah, she's five months old, so she, but I'll use it with her chasing dogs. Her chasing like my dogs, I. I was watching somebody and they were like, oh it was Shane. Shane was telling us about a dog trainer who, like, says never to use an e-collar to correct a dog for chasing dogs.
Speaker 2:That's like my, you're the number one reason to use it kind of yeah. Muffin would just like latch on to like your. Yeah, muffin is like way too much, like they're just like so nice, she's literally like dragging all the other dogs around.
Speaker 1:Like no, I have to teach you, like now that you can't do that. But she's smart, right, and so like, if we walk up to her, she like lets go and she runs away, you know. Like she knows that she's not supposed to be doing it, but she also knows that she's not going to be held accountable when we're far away, you know.
Speaker 1:So like the e-collar is going to be really important for that. So like when she goes into, when she shifts into prey with the dogs and there's a. There's a fine line between play and prey, and we talked about this with Hawk the other day as well.
Speaker 2:They can be chasing and prey, and we talked about this with hawk the other day as well. They can be chasing, that's fine, but then there's like a like.
Speaker 1:There's a moment where they switch. They switch into like true prey, where they're no longer seeing the other dogs as like friend. It's like, oh, I'm gonna eat you. They're trying to bite for sure, you know, and muffin gets like that and it's not like serious, like she's not gonna like attack them or anything, but like she is like play attacking them yeah, it's just too much like overrides yeah, and it's too much, you know, so I need to disrupt that with the e-caller.
Speaker 1:So we're probably gonna do e-caller, like fairly soon yeah, it's getting shipped like as soon as it arrives, literally as we speak yeah, you know, whereas with minka I did not do e-caller with her until probably like a year old, because she's just like very, very different kind of very different, like soft little baby yeah, still to this day, really yeah, I really don't have to use a lot of e-collar with minka at all because she's just like she's very sensitive, you know, if I tell her no, she's like oh my gosh, okay, yeah she's very in tune with her handler yeah, handler soft.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I've never had to like punish her really yeah really for anything crazy like tone voice inflections yeah, she's like no, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:And she's like oh god, I'm so sorry. Um yeah, but muffin does not give up, she doesn't care. She literally is like whatever lady, whatever lady, and then she'll like run away, you know.
Speaker 2:So if you have a, dog.
Speaker 1:Like that I'm not going to be like don't e-collar your dog at five months old, you know Cause like some dogs need it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Muffin's testy Cause, like she'll like latch on to. Like Lucy, she's like literally hanging off.
Speaker 1:Like Muffin, no, goes right back. She's like are you far enough away? Yeah, so yeah, e-collar will be very helpful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I feel like she'll pick up on it quick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I also have like a clear language with her. I have clear expectations with her, like she knows what no means. Yeah, it's just, is there always going to be a consequence here, or you know what can? I get away with can I get away with it all right? Next question can I bring a puppy with only one set of shots to my courtyard of dog friendly apartment complex?
Speaker 2:well, this is too old well um, I do think it's important to let the puppies go out and not necessarily wait for the shots. Because the vets are big. I'm like not taking your dog out anywhere until he's got the full sets of shots.
Speaker 1:But on the flip side, not at your apartment complex yeah, more so, not dog parks in general yeah, no, like no places where there's like a lot of dogs. I like more empty places like a random empty field or carry them into like a coffee shop and you know things like that. Apartment complexes are honestly pretty gross.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so twofold right. One we don't know the dogs that are there. Maybe they're friendly, maybe they're not. You want to build more value in you, but then the other thing is just from like a what sanitary?
Speaker 1:well, I don't think it's a dog park, it's just the courtyard of the dog friendly apartment.
Speaker 2:I got you, got you yeah, so even in that context though, because a lot of dogs go there- yeah you know, there's a lot of dogs that pee, a lot of dogs that are exposed in that area and you don't want the dogs to interact in those environments yeah, personally I wouldn't.
Speaker 1:I would get like a grass pad. If you have like a little balcony, you can put the grass pad on the balcony and use that, or just like carry your puppy to a different spot where you know not a lot of dogs are going. But I feel like the the problem with apartment complexes is like, especially if it is dog friendly, a lot of people are going to have dogs and the dogs are always going to like poop and pee on top of each other's poop and pee and so like it's probably pretty disgusting. Yeah, so I personally wouldn't and I'm not super like crazy strict on stuff like that, but but I wouldn't. For that instance, you know, if you lived in a neighborhood and had a house and had your own yard, yeah for sure, like let your dog run around.
Speaker 1:But there's probably just like too many dogs that you don't know. You don't know if they're vaccinated, like you don't. You know, like if they have parvo or whatever. It is a lot of people. The only cases that I know and this is just my experience of dogs with parvo are people who have recently adopted dogs either from the shelter or from like a backyard breeder, and the dogs come with parvo and they don't know until later on. So those are the problem dogs that we don't want to risk having our new puppy around yeah, absolutely all right, six month old puppy barking and lunging at dogs on leash, working on heel.
Speaker 1:But it's hard, this is like muffin. Yeah, this is, this is muffin.
Speaker 2:Pretty accurate.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we want to do. Personally, I wouldn't correct. I'm not saying don't, because it depends on your dog, but how I'm taking muffin's reactivity is I'm just counter conditioning. So essentially she goes to pop off. Right, I'm going to shuffle backwards as soon as she looks back at me. Yes, I keep shuffling backwards pay, pay, pay. And then she's like Ooh, good things happen with you, and when I'm saying pay, I'm using a food reward. So eventually, what I'm looking for is they look at the dog, then they look at you, then we mark with yes and then we reward. Do not, do not do this, okay. Do not say yes while your dog is popping off on another dog to try to redirect them back to you, off on another dog to try to redirect them back to you. I want you to say yes. Once the dog has already looked at you, you're going to keep shuffling backwards and then we're going to pay, pay, pay, pay, pay.
Speaker 2:Very important nuance, you're not rewarding the same thing.
Speaker 1:And there's a lot of bad advice. There's a lot of really bad advice. Yes, yes, we can use yes as a disruptor for reactivity, but here's the nuance with it most people have not properly conditioned their yes and so it is not that strong, because they're sometimes rewarding the dog in position with yes, they're sometimes rewarding out of the position with yes, they're just using yes on no behavior and the dog doesn't understand what yes means. Okay. So if you're going to use yes as a positive disruptor, that dog better hear yes and shoot back to you, because yes always means reward on me, okay. Okay, this is my biggest pet peeve as a dog trainer by far, because dog trainers are out there.
Speaker 2:We have the long guy who's like oh, I was like what is this noise?
Speaker 1:I'm pulling up right next to us. Will you close the door? Yeah um, okay, so dog trainers are saying like, oh, use yes as a positive disruptor instead of marking and rewarding the dog.
Speaker 2:No, I lost my train of thought um, we've literally seen people like the dogs popping off. They say yes and the yes isn't meaningful enough, so then they're like stimming for yes and it's like wait what?
Speaker 1:that's. It's so bad, it's literally so bad. So yes always means come back to me. Reward is on me. If your dog knows that yes all the time and they're shooting back to you, then you can use it as a positive disruptor for your reactivity. But most people don't have that, okay, so we're gonna use yes to. We're gonna use yes once the dog is already looking at you. Right, because we're marking the dog paying attention to you instead of the other dog. We're going to use our body language and our leash to guide the dog away from that reactive moment and pull them back over to you. If they are still like staring at the other dog while you're shuffling backwards, I need you to shuffle backwards faster.
Speaker 2:And maybe some leash guidance.
Speaker 1:Some leash pops.
Speaker 2:It's not a long guy. We got this huge truck that's cleaning the parking lot.
Speaker 1:A power washer. Yeah, see, this is why we have to record at night.
Speaker 1:Fair enough, but yeah that's my biggest pet peeve with reactivity. So basically, what I'm doing with Muffin is I take her out and she, let's say, hits the end of the leash. She's like losing it at somebody. I'm going to shuffle backwards. She looks at me yes, because she understands. Yes, she shoots back to me, I reward and as I'm moving backwards, okay. So eventually she looks at the trigger and then she looks back at me yes, pay, pay, pay, pay, pay. And I'm just gonna keep doing that and she goes in and out of phases. You know, like she's definitely not as reactive anymore because she's not in, like, a fear period. There is a moment there where she was like, definitely in a fear period and she was really really bad, popping off at everything, like everything like a leaf would blow, and she's like and you're like, okay relax, relax you know, um, I have a video on my instagram as well of me working with muffin and I'm basically just like rewarding her in heel and I'm just good pay in heel, good pay and heal.
Speaker 1:So like you keep staying in heal and I'm gonna keep rewarding you, I'm not gonna correct her if she goes out of heal because I'm not like holding her accountable. Yet I'm not holding her accountable yet. When she's older, yeah for sure, I'll definitely correct her, but because her reactivity is stemming from, like her, just being in a fear period, I'm not.
Speaker 1:I don't really want to like start correcting her for it you know there's other things that I can do, but if you have a reactive puppy, I definitely recommend building up a strong yes marker. So yes, is you always come back to me? Never correct the dog after you say yes. That's just going to add more confusion and a big part of what we do as dog trainers is we're creating a clear language. Our marker words are part of that clear language. Okay, so if you're training the dog and you say yes and your dog doesn't shoot back to you, that tells me that you need to go back into a place with minimal distractions, where your dog is not around their triggers, and just work on that yes marker, shuffle backwards. Yes is a release from position reward on you. Good is our duration marker. You're probably not going to be using that just yet. Okay, that's my rant.
Speaker 1:That was good reactivity increases when place starts to feel like home, a familiar coffee shop, apartment. How to stop? Okay, I see this with dogs and this is going to be a big statement here dogs that don't really respect their owners that much, you know. So, like if the dog is fine and no, that that's a bad statement, I shouldn't say that. But if the dog doesn't respect, like it's not you necessarily, but like the dog doesn't respect or understand, like what the actual expectations are, so your dog might be a little fearful and so when you're in new environments they're a bit flooded right and then, once the dog gets more comfortable for an environment and they feel like, oh, this is my space, it's my job to guard this space, right, but why does the dog think that it's their job to guard that space?
Speaker 2:You know, probably you're not advocating for the dog enough and you're not a figure of authority Right, hence why you're saying the disrespect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly. So it's like that dog is. I'm not saying like resource, guarding that space, or anything, but they're more comfortable and they're like, ok, well, I'm not saying like resource, guarding that space or anything, but they're more comfortable and they're like, okay, well, I'm not a super confident dog to begin with. I'm going to, you know, create space because, like, my owner is not advocating, or my owner does not have a strong enough no in those moments, you know so, like, does your dog respect your no? What does no mean to your dog? Have you ever followed it up with a consequence? A consequence could just be moving into them.
Speaker 1:You know, if you have a really soft dog like Minka, no is enough and she's like, okay, you know, just a change in my voice. It could be spatial pressure, it could be a pop on the leash, it could be a tap on your e-collar. Tap on your e-collar, but you need a meaningful no in those moments to communicate to the dog hey, this is not your job, it is not your job to guard this space or to advocate for us. Or, you know, if you feel uncomfy, like it's not your job to look out, I'm looking out for you. And then, on the flip side of that, make sure that you're not allowing people to come up into that dog space, you're not allowing those behaviors to work.
Speaker 1:You know like, really be firm with the dog in those moments. Be like, hey, you don't get to do these things, I'll show you what I want you to do, but you don't get to pop off on people that walk into the coffee shop. This is not your job, not your responsibility, you know. But so on the flip side, you, you know, when people ask to pet your dog and stuff, like you should stand in front of your dog, yeah, put your hand out. Or even like, let's say you're sitting, like position your dog behind you. Positioning is everything right. Is your reactive dog laying on your feet?
Speaker 2:like staring at the door.
Speaker 1:Staring at the door no, I'm gonna correct that behavior right. So I'm gonna like, let's say, the dog is already staring at the door, I'm going to give them a little leash pop. No, come over here, I'm going to adjust them so they're sitting behind me. Yeah, you know just that, are like not having problems. But if I have a super reactive dog, you don't get to walk in a loose heel. You know you're going to be in a tight heel right behind me because you don't. You're not making good decisions, yeah. So any advice on getting my dog to settle and relax in his crate Set up a routine.
Speaker 1:Make sure that the crate is just part of your day-to-day. It's a non-negotiable Good stuff happens in the crate All the food, all the water, all the treats, anything good that you're giving your dog. It happens in the crate. Don't release the dog when they're throwing a temper tantrum. They're just trying to figure out what works. I promise you are not going to break your dog or ruin your relationship. Months because she was working with a quote separation anxiety expert and she gave her like a year plan of crazy. It's craziness because she was like oh yeah, if you like, leave your dog, you're going to make it worse. That to me, is absolutely insane. Like I promise you, your dog is going to be okay. I've never, ever, ever in my career and the thousand of dog, thousands of dogs that I've trained, I've never seen fallout from letting a dog self-soothe yeah, maybe they're gonna bark for 20 minutes, maybe they're gonna bark for a day, but eventually like they're gonna like settle in the crate.
Speaker 2:They're going to bark for a day, but eventually like they're going to like settle in the crate they're eventually going to settle, and they have to learn that on their own. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, and the problem that most people have is they feel bad and they go and let the dog out, and then you're teaching the dog that, like you, bark and whine, and you know.
Speaker 1:I get freaked out and that's your ticket out. That's your ticket out. So your dog is going to be okay. And the bigger picture is, if you can't get your dog to settle in the crate, you're going to struggle with a lot of other things because, that is, you're not asking a lot from your dog. Like you're literally like I'm literally just asking you to go and like chill here, and like you're losing it with me asking you to go and do that. Like what if I want you to do something else? What if I want you to do a down stay in public? Like you're definitely going to lose your mind in those settings. Or like why is the dog losing it if you walk out of the room?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's important that the dog's able to distance themselves from you like how you. You know you can't be with your dog 24 7, it's not healthy.
Speaker 1:We're watching a tiktok of a girl like like that. She's like I don't have a job because my dog has separation anxiety yeah, and the guy was like that's crazy rehome the dog.
Speaker 2:This is like not a dog trainer.
Speaker 1:This is like a regular person he's like rehome the dog he's like rehome the dog. Like that's crazy. You're not fit like be an owner of this dog. Yeah, yeah, I feel like we've like got lost in the sauce a little bit with the separation anxiety stuff. And two, it's coming from people who are not training dogs, right. So, like I asked my client, I was like has this girl seen success with this program? And she's like well with her dog.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one dog and I was like has she like? And she's like, well, it took like I think like two years or something, and I was like I don't think that that's like success, you know like you have to think like your dog needs to trust you a little bit, and the trust is hey, I'm gonna put you in the crate and you're gonna be fine, like nothing bad is happening, you know the other thing too.
Speaker 2:Like I think we got to be real. Like a lot of people like they live in apartments and you know they can't like afford to have, they think they can't afford to have a dog. That's gonna pop off for like two weeks straight and they they give up after like 20 minutes. Right, if you're gonna crate train a dog, maybe go talk to your neighbors ahead of time. Tell them you're training and you know, the sooner you address this and nip it in the butt, the quicker like you'll kind of overcome that that hurdle.
Speaker 1:So just talk to your neighbors and actually make it happen, crate train your dog yeah, it's such a valuable skill and you're really going to struggle with other areas if you can't do that. You know. And like, muffin was horrible. Yeah, I mean, muffin still pops off in the crate.
Speaker 2:It's not the crate, it's just like I mean she pops off when we have, like, the van door open and she's watching the world go by out of the crate.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which isn't most people's reality either, you know. Yeah, I would say like she's crate trained. You know, like most people's crates, like in a quiet living room setting. There's not like the world going by.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they also really like it.
Speaker 2:They do, they really do they learn to love the designated downtime. Yeah, I think certain dogs like Lucy or Hawk, they actually really need it.
Speaker 1:It's like a den for them. When Lucy doesn't have a crate, she's losing her mind.
Speaker 2:She's like put me in a small space. Well, they don't necessarily know how to settle on their own as well yeah, so the crate helps with that.
Speaker 1:Okay, how to get six month old puppy to stop trying to eat everything outside? Rocks bark seed from trees. This is the puppy q a I know you gotta correct when you see your dog eating. No, give them a pop on the leash. Let's say they're eating something in the grass and you say no, and then they run away from you. Okay, you're not going to be off leash.
Speaker 2:You just lost your freedom, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you're going to be on like we have 10 foot leashes, we have 15 foot leashes, but like a leash of that length that the dog can't get too far away from you. You can have a slip lead or a prong collar if the dog starts eating something. No pop of the leash, that's pretty much that's pretty much it. You know that's how you teach them to not eat things off the ground. Same thing if you're walking. The dog is constantly dipping their head down.
Speaker 2:No, pop their head back up yeah, keep the head up on a structured walk yeah, there's no reason for your dog's nose to be glued to the ground.
Speaker 1:They can still take in the world plenty, yeah, like they don't need their nose glued to the ground because that's when they start to pick things up, and especially if I have a dog who's like notorious for that. No, no, you're not going to drop your head down at all yeah but make sure that you can hold that dog accountable every single time, because you don't want to get into the habit of playing the.
Speaker 1:Oh well, I can just run away game yeah, because your dog is going to get a chicken wing and you're going to go no, and they're going to take off running because that's what they've done before.
Speaker 2:So if your dog is doing that leash, you have to have a leash on yeah, we don't want to create this like habit of like making it a game where they you chase the dog and they they run away yeah, so always supervised you got a puppy you gotta supervise them and also trauma story what happened when you weren't supervising muffin? Yeah, we've been there my girl.
Speaker 1:My girl ate some drugs and it was not good we had to rush her to the vet yeah, all right, what else we got?
Speaker 1:how do you go about letting clients try new tools? Do you provide it or do you have them buy it beforehand? I don't have them buy tools beforehand because I don't always know what tool is going to be best for what dog. So I typically will get the tool for them and be like okay, this is what we're going to use. I include tools in most of my training. Unless it's like a lesson person and they want an e-collar, I'll have them pay for an e-collar. But we always have prong collars and slip leads and e-collars on us. So we'll typically start like showing the owner our on our tools and if they want to purchase one, then they can. But I typically don't have people like invest in that without seeing the dog first and without the owner knowing you know what the tool is and if they like to use it. My dog isn't scared of the e-collar, but scared when the remote is in my hand. Any tips?
Speaker 2:interesting interesting collar wise e-collar wise for sure but also like, chances are you're like using at one point, like you use the e-collar, it's like I'm gonna get the e-collar remote and zap you.
Speaker 1:You know, versus like maybe but just just be consistent in that. It's just like an everyday thing. You know, like you always like, have the remote on you. It's not just no, you're doing something bad. I'm going to go and grab the remote you know, but even like I think Hawk is.
Speaker 2:He knows.
Speaker 1:Hawk knows when somebody is holding the e-collar, especially the new e-collar that you got, because it like clicks a little bit yeah, it's a louder, for sure, but, like for the most part, I would say there's just a dog in the field.
Speaker 2:I think it's popping off. See, that goes literally what we were saying earlier about the door being open and the dogs being able to watch the world.
Speaker 2:Um but I don't, I like them barking yeah people approaching my van oh, I think that's fair, like I don't. Yeah, I like that um, yeah, as far as the e-caller goes, it's like the e-callers on the dog. You have the remote on you. It's not like, oh, the dog did something bad, and then you're rushing to like the counter to grab the remote. You know it's, it's on you at all times and then the correction comes without this, like whole routine that comes with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think just you know using it more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cause obviously the dog associated the correction with you handling the remote. But like, let's say, I do an like an active obedience session or even like a a loose leash walk. I feel like a lot of people have the e-collar like dangling around their neck or like dangling around the wrist, like hold the e-collar in your hand and it's just part of your attire. You know like you're when you take the dog out and it's, it's on you when you correct the dog. You correct the dog. It's not like you're going to grab it, and then it's a whole series of sequence before the correction happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how do you determine you should get another dog?
Speaker 2:Well first of all, well, make sure the first dog is actually truly trained. I don't think you necessarily should be getting a second dog when you have problems with the first one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if you need to invest all of your time into the first dog, then don't get another dog. Personally, I like to have a group of dogs.
Speaker 2:I would say don't get another dog to get a friend for your dog. I would say don't get another dog to get a friend for your dog. You're going to have to expect to train that dog separately, first build a relationship with you, but then obviously multiple dogs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say, more important than the behaviors of the dog is do you have a good relationship with your first dog? But I personally I really like having multiple dogs. Like I think dogs are social and I like my dogs to have dog friends and they love each other. Like I think it it adds a lot to their life.
Speaker 2:So I'm always one to encourage somebody to get another dog, but know that like that's going to be your whole personality yeah, and also like, depending on the the dog you have or the you know the yeah, and also like, depending on the the dog you have or the you know the, the current dog you have or the next dog you're going to get, depending on his temperament, his breed, they might not get along, and that's also something like you got to ask yourself like are you okay with that?
Speaker 2:yeah um, that's a whole like other set of you know questions like that that follow like do you then have the time to take care of two dogs separately? And yeah, are you ready?
Speaker 1:to make it your whole life yeah, basically yeah, there was a big change from having zoe to getting lucy yeah, obviously, like I literally became a dog trainer because of her. Okay, top wres for van life. What features do you actually need in a van build, especially with dogs?
Speaker 2:Oh, Invest in proper insulation.
Speaker 1:Insulation. You need fans or air conditioning. So Toma's van is like heavy insulated because he built it in Canada. And he has two fans, which is very nice. He doesn't have air conditioning because he was in Canada. He built it in Canada and he has two fans, which is very nice. He doesn't have air conditioning because he's in Canada.
Speaker 2:Yeah, AC would be nice. I think he should. The thing with AC is it draws a lot more energy.
Speaker 1:So the next thing to really consider in a van build, you need a big battery if you're going to have an AC unit.
Speaker 2:Big battery bank, big battery, if you're gonna have an ac unit, big battery bank. So even just starting there and like realizing how much like just those elements cost, yeah, um, and then after that, I mean it's kind of to your discretion of how comfortable you want to get, like, do you want a permanent bed setup? Do you want something that folds out?
Speaker 1:I like the permanent bed bed setup, but for my van build I'm not doing that. I'm going to have a couch, because something that I wanted to prioritize is a space for me to work. I don't really have a space that I can work at.
Speaker 2:Out of my van yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm going to have a couch that slides out into a bed, which I think will be perfect for me, because we're mostly sleeping in toma's van and then, like when I travel alone, I'll sleep in my van, but I just have like a mattress that's like on the floor right now. I had a bed set up but I sold it because it was not. It did not fit the crates very well. I could only fit one roughland under the bottom of this bed system because they had huge like storage boxes on the side.
Speaker 1:So obviously like anyway, like you couldn't get to the storage either because like we had a crate in the middle and I don't know it just like was not.
Speaker 1:It was not a good bed system for me. So I'm getting my van built out this month. We'll kind of see how far I can go with it, like how much money I can dump into a van build um, but I personally, like, I think you, you need a toilet. Yeah, tomah says no, but it is the worst, especially in california, because a lot of places don't have public bathrooms and like where, what are you gonna do? Like, where are you gonna go? So I have a compostable toilet that will be installed in my van. Toma just built a shower. I feel like that's gonna be better for him because he does like decoying and gets like sweaty and stinky and he'll be able to just like rinse off real quick. I don't think it's gonna be that valuable for me, because I shower when I want to like wash my hair. I feel like I don't get that stinky you got to be realistic as well.
Speaker 2:Like you're limited in the capacity, like the size of the water tank that you can have.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, these are like showers if, if I am like washing my hair, I'm going to use, like, all the water in the water tank. Basically so like that's not really worth it. I would rather just like go to a gym and not have to worry about like being, like I have long hair, like it's gonna take me forever to wash my hair, but like for toma, it's like he can take a quick little like two minute shower and it's like I need to do that after decoying yeah, because you would be disgusting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, uh, I think the most important thing is like laying out the van right. So you got to think like how you're going to use it and like design it accordingly. Like you said, your bed system wasn't really convenient for several crates.
Speaker 1:Like think how many dogs you have, where you're going to put those crates yeah, build around that, but I will not ever get permanent crates in the van yeah, I agree because I need to be able to take them out and hose those bitches out.
Speaker 1:Because I cannot imagine like a dog has explosive diarrhea in a crate that's like built into the van. Yeah, like that would be horrible and you're never gonna get that fully clean. Like I love the roughlands because like, let's say, I have a dog, like choose a roughland, I'm just gonna go buy another roughland, you know, I'm not having to like reinstall an entire new crate in the van.
Speaker 1:So definitely, like it's called, like modular van builds, I like, I think that's important, like having crates that you can take out, having a setup that, like you have the space to remove the crates. Um, some things that I have learned that I really would need in a van build and we're talking about this today is your van doesn't have a battery thing that tells you when your batteries are going to run out, so toma's shit just turns off because we don't know, like we literally don't know when the batteries are going to die.
Speaker 2:I've been fine forever, but ever since we do these podcasts and all no, we're running a lot of stuff with the Starlink, the you know, the computer.
Speaker 1:The fridge. Yeah, and that's what pisses me off.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, you drain the batteries of all your electronics?
Speaker 1:Okay, but we don't know that the batteries are drained because there's no. We have no idea how much juice we have in our batteries, and it's also bad for your batteries, Toma, to die all the time.
Speaker 2:So these are the van life struggles.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then running out of water. Running out of electricity and running out of water are two problems yeah so those are things to keep in mind in a van build I would have the biggest water tank that I could get, because the dogs drink about a gallon of water each, every day yeah like a ton of water after that I don't know, just a question of like creature comforts, you know, storage, um.
Speaker 2:But that could look differently like if you have a house. Maybe you're like looking more at like a modular house uh sorry, modular van with like l-tracks, maybe just some duffel bags that you throw in for the weekend. If it's a full-time van build, obviously a different set of requirements yeah, I'm definitely gonna have a giant water tank.
Speaker 2:I want the biggest water tank that can possibly fit in my van, and I would like a giant battery bank yeah, I feel like your, your van build is going to kind of be more like a mobile office, so like prioritizing like these elements because you need it for your, your electronics and then big water tank for the dogs, but then also, like the emphasis is more so on like a couch and like a workspace, with the occasional with the option of a bed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah so I think that's like very important to keep in mind, like, how are you going to use the van and then build according to that? So you had the van for quite a while and you had like the time to like make up this concept in your mind yeah and I think that's like I also think, too, that people think that you have to have a full setup before you start. But, like, my van is a tornado yeah, but I almost think that's better to like.
Speaker 1:You get it insulated you get your solar and you figure out how you're gonna to like use the space. And how I wanted it built is not how I want it built. Now, you know, like I at the time I was like, oh, I don't really need a bathroom. And then, like we had like a couple of days where there was like no bathrooms and I was like sobbing because there's nowhere for me to go, you know, and I'm like, oh, I need a bathroom.
Speaker 1:Yeah you know, and I'm like, oh, I need a bathroom. Yeah, um, I need a big. At first I was just gonna have a small battery bank, but I'm like, no, I need a big battery bank. I have a big fridge that we're gonna put in you use a lot of electricity for sure yeah, but I mean, that's how we make a living so that's how we pay the bills 100 yeah, but see, these are just all things that you kind of like realize as you go right yeah.
Speaker 1:So I would say like travel first and then you know. Oh, also, I'm gonna have like drawer systems in the back under the crates for dog food, because dog food takes up so much space in my van and you don't really think about that. It's like, oh wait, like yeah, I need like a giant like drawer for just dog food, and I also want it like locked up, because if you slam on the brakes, everything goes flying.
Speaker 1:Like if you do not have everything secured. It's my van is such a disaster right now. My van is such a disaster right now and it's because, like every time I break like everything just goes flying Dogs or bags of dog dogs, bags of dog food, like spills all over the van, and then we've got like, oh my God, it's so bad.
Speaker 2:You need. You need designated areas for everything to be organized.
Speaker 1:But you don't know what you're going to need until you live in the van you know, yeah, I agree know what you're gonna need until you live in the van, you know. Yeah, I agree, like I know that we need a space for dog food, a designated drawer for just dog food. Yeah, we need the fans and stuff like that, okay, last question where do you see yourself in two years? Where would you like to settle down?
Speaker 1:that's a very um on topic question yeah, I would say tolma and I have been looking at properties. I I love living out of the vans because we don't have a lot of stuff. The house that I had before just like accumulated so much stuff and I feel like I have like moved every two years since I was 18. Like, I have always rented houses and moving is the absolute worst. I hate it. I hate that like I accumulate everybody's stuff that I've ever lived with. I feel like I'm always the last one to like leave lived with. I feel like I'm always the last one to like leave a house and so I'm always the one who's like I've just accumulated furniture and like kitchen stuff and so Toma packed up and got rid of my entire house before we went into the vans. And I'm still at the point where I'm like I have so much stuff and I literally have like everything that I own fits in like one vehicle, you know, but it's still.
Speaker 1:It feels like a lot. So we're looking at property, but I don't think I ever see myself living in like a traditional home. I see us either just getting property and then like building down the line like a small house, or we're looking at a property that has like a studio. Yeah, so home more, so like just one big room, like a tiny house type and then like a couple acres. Yeah, because we're always outside anyways.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and for us, like when we leave the city, it's to like drive, to like BLM land to be able to let the dogs rip. So if we could like actually own a piece of land, that'd be nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if we got a property in the city, I think I would get it for the business. I don't think I would want to get a house anywhere around.
Speaker 2:No, that'd be like a commercial building.
Speaker 1:So it's either we go commercial building Either we go commercial, like fully in the city, or we get something in the middle of nowhere that's like property.
Speaker 2:And eventually maybe both.
Speaker 1:Or can I lost this? Yeah, so we're manifesting that for ourselves, but in the near future, definitely van build. I see myself doing van life for as long as I need to to be able to comfortably buy something yeah, you know, that's kind of the the goal we're building up to right now yeah, I don't want to like, I don't want to feel like I'm rushing something or get something that I feel like I can't afford just because I'm trying to like escape van life.
Speaker 2:So right now I'm trying to make van life as comfortable as possible getting the van built out, like making it sustainable, so that like we don't have to rush into something and even like my van build um kind of gradually, like it's gradually improved, since we like actually started the road trip because it was like very far from being finished, we had nothing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was no counter, there was no sink, there was no cabinets Like.
Speaker 2:No sofa. We still don't have cabinets. It was just a bed, all the cabinets.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we have upper cabinets, but not we don't.
Speaker 2:We're missing like a couple drawers and stuff. But it's kind of funny because it's getting more and more comfortable as we progress in video life Now.
Speaker 1:We need a battery monitor, we need bigger power banks and solar. We don't have solar.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So the only time we can charge our batteries is when we're driving, which is not enough.
Speaker 2:No, that is true.
Speaker 1:You know. So like those things do matter, but like I mean, we've done van life for almost a year now without that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's not comfortable. I've definitely had lots of mental breakdowns. Yes, have contacted realtors.
Speaker 2:Hey, but that's all part of it, I think, in the grand scheme of things, like, we live a pretty cool life and the van life like allows us to, you know, travel a bunch and meet new people, and it has been fun I do like having all of our stuff with us all the time. That is very, very nice yes, I love that like you never have to like rush to like go home to like potty dogs, like as silly as that. Yeah, that's amazing, you know.
Speaker 1:But that's like what our, that's what my life was before like with the house. And I think, like every time I would go and like travel or go on a road trip, and then I would come back to the house like I would literally just like sob, driving back to the house because I'm like damn, I hate this. Back to the house because I'm like damn, I hate this. Like I I hated going back to the house because I was basically on house arrest because when you have a whole bunch of dogs like, you cannot leave. We couldn't even leave to like go get coffee. We would leave to go get coffee and I would get a call from an owner who's like I'm at your house to pick up the dog. I'm a little bit early and we're like like we literally could not leave.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that to me is like hell, like I hate that.
Speaker 2:You know, it's very cool, like when we get sick of a spot for I don't know, I feel like after three days of being in a spot, it's like, okay, let's, let's go yeah, and we kind of have like the spots that we like return to, like in within the city and stuff, but then, like when we're out in nature, it's like that's like the adventure is, like everything is new and like fun and exciting.
Speaker 2:So it's a good balance yeah, for sure it's been cool ups and downs, for sure the van life, but it's fun recommend.
Speaker 1:It's definitely not for everybody.
Speaker 2:No very very few people, I think, could actually do van life but hey, if you're thinking about it, you're probably one of those people yeah, I don't know, I'm kind of like a dirt bag and it was really tough for me in the beginning.
Speaker 1:I think it's gotten better because we figured out, like where to fill up water and like I have three gym memberships, you know like yeah, yeah, because in the beginning we did not have gym memberships and we could not shower anywhere and like that is horrible, that feeling of like disgusting and I can't shower we also have to like figure out california, like.
Speaker 2:I think it's different. If like well, chances are, if you're building a van, it's like to adventure and to like go to a different state or country or whatever, but like we didn't really know the area and like now we kind of like we have our bearings, like because it's also. It's two very different things when you're just doing van life to travel, and then when you're doing van life to like actually live in an area. You gotta like find your routine to make it work.
Speaker 1:We're also very lucky in that, like we have a lot of friends like right away yeah you know, like I knew shane, and like shane lets us park out in front of his house and shower at his house, like oscar lets us park, you know, yeah, at his spot sometimes.
Speaker 2:And yeah, mike, up north, like I think.
Speaker 1:I think that's yeah mike, lets us take over his facility yeah you know, like that is something that we have, that I don't know. I was like watching this other girl's tiktok of how she like quit van life. She's like I couldn't do it full time because it's just like it's too much. It's too much figuring out like where you're gonna fill up water and like we, we don't really have that issue because even like celine you know celine's like come fill up your water tank, like park in my driveway.
Speaker 2:You know, like everybody, we, we are very lucky and that we have so many people who are like you can literally come by anytime and like shower and I would say like, for the most part, we we don't necessarily use, like, all the handouts that are given to us, but like it's nice to know that they're there. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:Like in case, like I was thinking about that yesterday of like we're in corona right now, we're like 10 minutes from shane and we're at the park. But I'm like if we ever got like a knock and somebody's like you can't park here, I would just go and park out in front of Shane's house, you know, and like he wouldn't care. No, exactly, you know, like that's nice that we have that, or like we can ship stuff to people's houses, like I feel like not a lot of van life people have that, like they just go into van life.
Speaker 1:Like not having that community, and I think the community that we have has been like wildly helpful in being able to do this for sure and it's also pretty common with dog trainers to do the van life stuff yeah, you know, because we want to take our dogs everywhere with us. So like chris is getting his van built out, you know, and I actually just has her van kate has her van like, we all have vans yep, I just saw his story.
Speaker 2:He said he was building permanent crates.
Speaker 1:I was like oh rookie oh, we gotta tell him no, I would not do that it would not be good yeah, anyways van life's been fun.
Speaker 2:Highly recommend and plan for the next two years. Maybe get a property yeah, we're manifesting that.
Speaker 1:I don't want to like say that it's gonna happen, but no it's. I don't want to say that it's not gonna happen. You know like if tomorrow somebody's like hey meg, I have this property, I'm gonna give it to you.
Speaker 2:Hell yeah, you know like for sure I'm not gonna like dismiss anything, any miracles from you know yeah but right now we're enjoying van life and we'll see where we end up yeah, but all right, that's all we have for you.
Speaker 1:Thanks for being here, being part of the community, joining us this week. Little you know, show notes, join our community. We have a live call every Wednesday. There's tons of videos and courses. I post all of my private lessons into the community full unedited sessions. All of my virtual lessons into the community. Oh, the next round of the virtual shadow program. So if you want to be a dog trainer, do the virtual shadow program. That is starting July 21st. I have just opened up interviews for that. So please sign up. It's all on the website, super easy to find. We got anything else we need to add.
Speaker 2:No, not that I could think of All right y'all Thanks for being here.
Speaker 1:See you next week, see you next time.