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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
Your dog isn't broken, it just needs the right lifestyle.
Recorded by a crackling campfire in Montana's bear country, this episode pulls back the curtain on what it truly means to live with working dogs. Meg is joined by dog trainers Thoma and Lex (who recently welcomed a Malinois puppy into her life) for an unfiltered conversation about the expectations versus reality of high-drive dogs.
Have you ever wondered why some dogs seem impossible to settle or why your "reactive" dog behaves so differently from other dogs of the same breed? The answer might lie in understanding what these dogs were bred for. We dive deep into what defines a working dog, from detection K9s and protection sport competitors to high-energy pets with working genetics that leak out as behavioral issues when not properly channeled.
The conversation takes a candid turn as we discuss the lifestyle adjustments necessary for working dog owners – the crate rotations, the management strategies, and the acceptance that not every dog can be a "coffee shop dog." We explore how e-collars provide freedom rather than restriction for many high-drive dogs, and why the expectations we place on our dogs often cause more frustration than the dogs themselves.
Whether you're considering a working breed, struggling with a high-drive dog, or simply curious about a different approach to dog ownership, this episode offers practical wisdom on matching dogs to lifestyles, finding appropriate outlets for natural drives, and the freedom that comes from accepting your dog for exactly who they are – not who you wish they would be.
Listen in as we share personal stories of success, failure, and the beautiful reality of building our lives around these remarkable animals who weren't bred to fit into our world, but rather, to work alongside us in it.
Hello, hello and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer podcast. My name is Meg and I am a dog trainer. Today's episode is being recorded in front of a live fire in Montana, so we're going to talk about our trip and also the revelations that we've had about having working dogs. So I'm joined by Toma and my friend Lex. You know the drill grab yourself a tasty drink and meet us back here, here, hello guys hello, welcome the, the coolest place that we've ever recorded a podcast at.
Speaker 1:yes, it's a little bit different, because lex and toma don't have headphones on because we are in bear country, and so I was like I feel like that would be a little bit reckless for all of us to have headphones and be completely just out of tune with the rest of the world. Yeah, because you can't really see.
Speaker 2:No, it's pitch black. We're in the middle of the woods, we got a fire going and right now we got Walter roaming. He's on bear watch while we do this podcast.
Speaker 1:Lex, how do you feel about it?
Speaker 3:Good Psych. She's a little nervous. I have my mini flashlight in my left hand, the bear spray by my right foot, my knife in my right pocket and then, yeah, it's going to be good though.
Speaker 2:It's good for you. The truth is, we just podied all our dogs and there's no wildlife anywhere near here.
Speaker 3:I'm just a nervy girl, that's all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're also like so loud. Yeah, all of the dogs are screaming right now in the background.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:We're not gonna see nothing. Yes, but we are. We are on the outskirts of yellowstone, which is super cool. Yeah, so we are over by west yellowstone, currently in montana, and we are on our way to a psa trial supporting one of our friends, celine, and also using this as an excuse to get out of California. And Lex has been on a previous podcast episode before. Do you remember what we talked about?
Speaker 3:CODA. Oh yeah, yeah yeah, I think it was just like CODA becoming a trainer. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Nice. Well, we have been kind of talking a little bit about this earlier and I was like you know what? I want to do a podcast on that, especially on this trip going up to a PSA trial and I've spoken about PSA in previous episodes. It's really just a dog sport and it's a protection sport, so there's an obedience component to it and there's a protection component to it, and that's kind of what the dog people train for, so that basically my whole life yeah, I dragged megan to it yes, so toma has competed before, I have not.
Speaker 2:But You've been training with us twice a week.
Speaker 1:I've been training with them twice a week, you know. So I'm almost part of that, and Lex just got a Malinois puppy.
Speaker 3:How's that been? It's been different, but it's been great. Yeah, she's kind of like malinois light, I feel like. As far as smells go, she's not she's mild she's not the driviest right now and she's got it in her, but she's also not like other dogs I've had that are a bit more mellow, but she's well socialized, she's super friendly and she gets along with my german Shepherd, so it's been great yeah, and for you that's something that's really important is like all of your dogs get along yeah, as much as I have dogs that are crating and rotating in my house with boarding trains, I don't like my dogs to do that all the time.
Speaker 3:For the most part I like them because it coexisting. So that was my like big thing with getting another dog, which Megan Toma had to talk me out of a couple of dogs before getting her. I want to get this unfixed male, get this crazy protection dog shepherd.
Speaker 2:You got yourself a nice female Malinois. I think she's perfect. Yeah, that fits in your lifestyle.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's like very in tune with you. She's very like you can tell she's like empathetic tune with you. She's very like you can tell she's like empathetic. You know, she's always like tuned in to like oh my gosh, what's going on? And just a very smart dog and she's not like overly malinois.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know yeah, I think she's a good starter dog. Yeah, she's been. She's been great for that world and I think it's one of those things with mouths like I think as a trainer, you like think you want a dog like that and then you get one, and sometimes it's a lot of dog for people and for me, like this is not the only thing I do, so my life is quite complicated, so to have a mouth that was going to be more intense with her would have been hard for my lifestyle right now.
Speaker 3:So she really meshed well, which was important and I think it's a big adjustment going from like well, I mean coda is kind of like a working dog yeah, he's already more than your average pet for sure yeah, he's definitely like got his own challenges, but it's just one of those things of like making sure that you have the right dog for your life right now, not like, oh I'm, I think I'm gonna do all these things with my dog. I think I'm gonna be like getting into PSA, I think I want to do sport and then like getting a dog and then not maybe not having the time right at that time to be able to invest in that. You know, because it's it's very time consuming having dogs like this. They take a lot and I mean there's a lot of downtime too, but you know they need a lot and you should do right by the dog that is in front of you.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and I think too, they like it's a very different lifestyle than the average pet dog, you know. So even just us having the conversation of like, oh well, it's relevant that all of your dogs get along, I feel like most people would be like, yeah, that's literally the whole point of getting a dog. But in the quote working dog world, that is not top priority and for me that is very important. I need to be able to let all of my dogs out at once. They need to coexist. That kind of holds priority over everything for me.
Speaker 2:I would never sacrifice that to have, uh, you know, super intense sport dog yeah, and you know all that to say, like some people in the sport world still have. You know, multi oh yeah, for sure tons of people do it yeah um, I think, if that's the goal, though, you definitely need to intro the dogs like as puppies.
Speaker 1:It's always a lot easier yeah, and that was the conversation that I had on my session today. Um, I was doing a virtual lesson with somebody and they were talking about wanting to get their second dog and she had a pretty like high drive. I don't think the dog is actually that high drive, but just like the breeds and I think like you could bring it out of the dog. You know, like it's definitely there, like genetically it's there, but I don't think it's been like brought out at all and so she's seeing it kind of leak out into like reactivity and you know stuff like that. But she has a, a bully mix like with a coon hound and you know like she's losing her dog to scents and she's like sometimes I'm super low on the e-caller and then sometimes my dog just gets locked in on a scent and like nothing, like I have to dial up so high and I was like, yes, that is uh, you know, kind of working dog like prime example.
Speaker 1:He's a yeah, he's a mutt, but like out of drive versus in drive, you know, like a dog in drive, you have to dial up on that e-caller in order to like get them out of that. And so just having that conversation with her of like hey, you know this is, you know this is the dog that you have and it's you've done a lot of foundational training and now it's time to like hold that dog accountable, to like not being reactive. You know, like I'm gonna give you an outlet. We're gonna play, we're gonna do fun training sessions. I'm gonna work your brain, but now I'm gonna give you an outlet. We're gonna play, we're gonna do fun training sessions.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna work your brain, but now I'm gonna start being holding you accountable for like the reactivity and stuff like that with that, she's also looking for a second dog, so we had to have a conversation about what that would look like bringing a another dog into that kind of a dog's household. Yes, and it's. It's like easy enough if you get lucky. But also like she has another opportunity for like a different dog. That's like not most likely not the right fit, but like she was great with asking you questions I think about like what, what would be a good idea for a second dog? Like what would that look like for her introducing another dog to a dog like him?
Speaker 1:yeah, and I, you know, she was like I have the opportunity to maybe get this like I mean two-year-old male rottweiler, and I was like I don't think that that's not called an opportunity I said don't do that.
Speaker 3:I think her heart's in the right place.
Speaker 2:You know like oh yeah, she's like oh like this.
Speaker 3:It might need a home. But it's also, like I think, for me it's like you also put, like for me taking fosters in all the time, like I put Coda in a position a lot of times where, like I kind of force him to be around dogs that maybe he doesn't dig, doesn't really mess with, but I like have him do it. But then my last one was a larger male shepherd that I had in the house and like they fought twice. I had to break them up. I'm all of like 105 pounds breaking up to 85 pound German shepherds in my house and, like you know, I kept thinking like oh, I can like, I can like get them social, I can get them to work it out.
Speaker 3:But at the end of the day it's like why am I putting Koda in that position of a dog that he doesn't want or like in the house Exactly? It's not fair to him and it would take a lot of work and rotating them and not everyone's up for that. I think it sounds, I think it sounds good to people in the beginning, like I can do that. But then you do it and you're like this sucks, it's like. It's like having a board game nonstop.
Speaker 2:Okay, stop. Okay, well, we're in the dog world speaking of, but yeah, I mean just your, your average person, your average like pet owner. They just, you know, want dogs and they want them to coexist, or they want to take their dog to the coffee shop and I think sometimes it's frustrating for people like they're. Like I just saw someone with the same breed as mine at the coffee shop and that dog was doing so great and mine's not, and it's like they may look similar in appearance but your dog's maybe a little drivier and your dog's not a coffee shop dog and they're just kind of reframing those people's like mind of how to live with their dog and and I think us coming maybe more from the working dog side like you know, you got a Malinois.
Speaker 2:you kind of like know what you will and won't do with this dog, like how you're going to raise it, and some people just have like unrealistic expectations.
Speaker 1:Well, first let's define what working dog even means.
Speaker 2:That's a very broad term. I guess In the industry when we talk about a working dog even means that's a very broad term.
Speaker 1:I guess in the industry when we talk about a working dog, um, I would say like broad is like a dog with a job correct like obvious. You know a dog with a job and then I think to go one step further. You know dogs that are bred for a purpose is like kind of underneath that, yeah, so thinking like patrol dogs, like dogs that do detection, that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2:They're actually working. And then one tier below would be like the sport dogs, like they're quote-unquote working dogs but they don't like have a true job. And then, you know, depending on people's definition, like even your drivey pet could be, you know, considered a working dog yeah, it's like lucy.
Speaker 1:You know, like lucy is not just a show line golden retriever, lucy is very much like needs a job, working line red golden retriever and there's labs and working line shepherds and working line malinois and like all different types of dogs that are bred for a job and we're adopting these dogs from the shelter and expecting them to live in our very normal human life and I feel like sometimes that really throws people off, you know. But the girl today was asking like all of the right questions, like she was literally like I'm two to three years out and I was like oh, shoot like I know that's amazing.
Speaker 3:She was asking.
Speaker 1:I was thinking this was like now and she was like no, I'm planning for the future of what this looks like but, like I don't know, she was like, well, that determines, well, that determines, like you know, what type of house I live in, like what breed of dog I get, and I was like, wow, that, if only everybody did that, you know.
Speaker 1:And she was like, and I want to make sure that, like, any new dog gets along with my current dog, and like knowing my current dog's personalities, like what you know type of dog would go with that, and I think that is like amazing, you know, and a lot of the conversations that I've had with her have been around like, look, you do have a bully mix and like, just, naturally, he's gonna have some drive, you know, and we have to be able to route that somewhere productive, you know. And then I think, on the other, so Muffin probably has to be crated more than the average dog, I think, if my lifestyle were completely different and I never, you know, had to leave her alone and we lived on a ranch in the middle of nowhere, I think no, because she would like little malinois brain and she's just jacking herself up and then she's being super annoying with the other dogs and then they're like gonna correct her, you know.
Speaker 2:so it's like okay, muffin needs to go into the crate because she can't self-regulate so well you know, and I feel like that is a common thing amongst working dogs, working line dogs- yeah, I mean even like when I I got hawk, like I knew I wanted a working dog for sport, and even then like I had to really like restructure my whole life, like before that I had you know walter's, technically quote-unquote like a working line shepherd.
Speaker 3:But to interrupt you, but just to pause that like, as we're doing this right now, walter is doing figure eights around us, like licking everyone on the face, picking up logs, moving them around.
Speaker 2:Like doing anything but sitting still just being cannot settle I mean he can settle, he's just choosing not to. Yes, so I mean he was already, like you know, a little more intense than like just your, your average pet, but then getting Hawk was like a whole other tier of like intensity, and like Hawk definitely needs to be created a lot more so. Because he can't like self-regulate very well, yeah, it doesn't make a decision think about um the little red lab yeah, yeah, oh my gosh, I honestly pour them just like a nice family.
Speaker 2:They just thought that they were getting a lab.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, so I had a a client in florida, and they got this little lab puppy and it was like a terrier mix.
Speaker 2:It was like so cracked she was tiny like.
Speaker 1:She was like tinier than muff. Well, I don't know. You think she was muffin size.
Speaker 1:Now maybe a tad smaller little smaller and she was supposed to be a lab and they like got her from a breeder and she's like just their baseboards and you know just that type of dog, and I had to introduce the crate to them and I was like, look, this is not your average pet dog. Like she's not going to relax on her own, she's going to need a lot of guidance, she's going to need consequences, like she's a very intense little lab, you know, and you're going to have to crate train her, basically because they were like leaving her out and she was just like spinning herself into like neurotic circles, you know, because she would just never settle on her own yeah, dog definitely needed a lot more management and like for them to like change their whole framework of like what living with a dog looks like, because you know unfortunately they didn't get the you know cupcake dog that they were expecting, that they could just like take anywhere yeah so yeah, I think in in that case it's.
Speaker 2:It's really hard. Either people like level up and basically become mini dog trainers or, unfortunately, the dogs like end up at the shelter.
Speaker 1:You know, far too often yeah, and I and I do think can you put more fire?
Speaker 2:we're going dark yep, put more, put more fire please I'm gonna add some wood into the fire. We've been driving we've been driving all day with a van, with a van full of dogs.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's been uh quite the journey up here, I would say, but I okay. So I feel like this this topic is kind of emphasized, especially now for us, because you have coda, and we've talked about coda before. He's very similar to walter, who same same.
Speaker 1:Obviously they're literally the same, literally the same dog they're literally the same dog, same mannerisms so we can't have coda out and walter out at the same time. We can't have, we can't have any of the males out at the same time. So basically, our lives is like rotating dogs, which is very much like. Uh, when you have this many dogs, like the chances of them all getting along all the time is just for this kind of dog for this kind dog.
Speaker 1:I think if you had like a van full of golden retrievers it wouldn't be an issue, you know. But ASMR, don't want to put the microphone in the fire.
Speaker 2:I don't know if we can hear the wood cracking.
Speaker 1:You can, you can, but it's super nice, Wait, put it back. Put it back.
Speaker 2:I don't know, that was nice I feel like this trip is like super nice as far as like reigniting my like love for like van life, because I think the last couple there's a little tangent here last couple months, like in the city has been kind of a lot like van life in the city kind of sucks, but then like oh, it's been horrible this week has been like so sick. I'm like, oh, this is, this is what it's about, you know?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's honestly been so depressing, like genuinely, and the only reason we've been kind of stuck in the city is because is because we're in the process of building out my van and so, yeah, but OK, this also kind of leads into like our trip and like the dogs.
Speaker 1:We have all of these working quote, working dogs, right, so we have three Malinois and a shepherd and then we've got the two Goldens and it sucks to see like them being trapped in a city. Being trapped in a city, you know like it kind of sucks for all of us, and I know that life is, you know there's like chapters to life and like this is just the, the chapter of like it's gonna suck for a little bit and we're gonna like live in this parking lot for a little bit and get this van built out and then we can enjoy trips like this. Um, but it's been interesting to see the balance with, you know, the mouths and the working dogs of like okay, if we're not out in nature and getting them, you know, out and exploring like we have to work them day working and if I don't work, cota, like when I met up with you guys or you guys came over.
Speaker 2:I was like COTA's on one today.
Speaker 3:Cota's on one today because it was just he. He was just like frustrated with the day because he's been crated half the time and then he's just at my house loose but like he's gonna sleep and like hang out with that with you know that time. But yeah, yeah, if I don't get him out, I mean he's, he's like an asshole, like he gets, he gets nasty, he's got an attitude and he'll get like very, very difficult and fussy with me if I don't like get him what he needs. And that doesn't mean that I can't just do a 15 minute bite work session with him and, you know, work him a little bit.
Speaker 2:But and you mean even like just playing like tug in your backyard.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah yeah, just doing like like games with his bite tugs and like obedience stuff, which is enough, but like he needs that like throughout the day kind of a thing.
Speaker 2:So this stuff is it's been.
Speaker 3:It's like a blessing to be out here and do this with the dogs, because they're on the crate in the vans a ton during the day, but when they get out they get to go out and they get to like run around the woods together and be feral yeah, we were in the desert today and all the girls and like my dog went out and then Toma's dog went out because the boys can all be with the girls and it was awesome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they just got to like run around and like Minka's trying to like kill everything. The girls are all just following her around and our two dingbats are just like wrestling. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so Muffin is. How old? Now Six, so Muffin is how old now?
Speaker 2:Six or seven months.
Speaker 1:Somewhere around there how old is?
Speaker 2:yours. Oh, Alexa's getting paranoid. She heard a noise.
Speaker 3:I heard it. It's literally probably a squirrel. I'm just like Guys, I'm small.
Speaker 1:You just have to be faster than us. I literally like enjoy it.
Speaker 3:I'm pretty fast. I'm pretty fast. Who's faster I fight.
Speaker 2:We literally have to walk. She's scrappy. Literally we gotta make, we gotta walk, make it eight feet into the van and close the door.
Speaker 3:Guys like we're fine yeah, we don't gotta make it that far. Clearly, you've never seen a grizzly bear run on a page channel.
Speaker 2:I know they fast, but realistically a grizzly bear is just gonna wander through. Bye, ignore us.
Speaker 1:I don't think. I, truly I. We never see wildlife. We're not going to see it Like we're literally, we literally have like eight or nine dogs right now and they're like they stink right now.
Speaker 3:They scurry, they scurry, they make everything in like they're all making noises.
Speaker 1:The three mile range around us like scurry away yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I love, I truly love seeing the dogs like the out in nature. I think it's honestly like more fun than training.
Speaker 1:I agree. I think like training is important because we like live in society, you know, but like genuinely.
Speaker 3:If I lived out in the middle of nowhere, this is what I would do, but also like, and they would be fine, our dogs are trained, so they also have the freedom to be able to do things like this and be off leash, and they're not going to run away from us.
Speaker 1:We have tools to be able to keep the ones that would with us and to maintain if anything came up if there was a bear, if there was, you know another dog or a person or whatever, like we have control over our dogs to be able to give them freedom, because some of them are big, scary dogs and like they, yeah, e -collars. Yeah, they're serious. Yeah, e-collars are I? Yeah, they're serious. Yeah, e-callers are.
Speaker 2:I mean, I can't even imagine Like I can't imagine having, I couldn't own Hawk without an E-caller.
Speaker 1:No, you couldn't, I couldn't.
Speaker 3:Like genuinely and people will fight us on that all day but like it changed my relationship with Koda point blank. Like it like changed how he looked at me and my relationship with him. He had boundaries to be able to like stay in those lines, to be able to like have a more clarity in who he is to me and what my role is for him. Yeah, and that like now he trusts that I'm handling situations for him. I mean, he was attacked and extremely reactive for like a year. I couldn't get it under hand and it got worse and worse. And that tool like changed a lot about his state of mind just in general. Yeah, he's like more peaceful when we walk.
Speaker 1:He's able to just like a seat belt like you saw it with minka today, like I had one e-caller and we're like out in the middle of nowhere on blm land but muffin was being really. Muffin is like overly passive, especially with like dominant dogs and like an extremely I'm gonna get you to love me, you know by like crawling under your chin and yeah into your mouth.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she's so annoying.
Speaker 1:So she was doing that with coda and like coda was being very patient and muffin was just like not giving it up and so I like took minka's e-car off and put it on Muffin to correct her. For you know, doing that with Koda, and you saw Minka, she like got, she was like, oh my gosh, she's like I'm naked, you know, and she was like staying next to me in heel and she was like a little more nervous and you're like, why, why, like, why is she?
Speaker 1:like that you should talk more about that I asked like why?
Speaker 3:why without the e-caller? Because sometimes, like a dog knows when the e-caller is on and then they'll behave more for her, like she. She was like clingy to meg, like she didn't run away from her and she's a very adventurous, yeah, spirit. And she was like right next to me and I was like why is she provides freedom?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, it provides like confidence and minka is very like impulsive and I can't always verbally like pull her back to me, you know. So if she's like chasing a squirrel and like lunges after a squirrel, I can't verbally get her out of that. Like when she goes into drive I can't verbally pull her out, and so when I don't have the e-caller on, she also gets like nervous to like make a mistake.
Speaker 3:She's like, oh my gosh, like there's not that communication between the two of us and what you said is that Minka also makes poor decision decisions sometimes and she knows it after the fact. Yeah, like she recognizes that it was impulsive. Yeah, and like afterwards she like feels guilty.
Speaker 1:She's like, oh fuck, you know um. And so the e-caller like gives her confidence that like I'm handling it, you know, she knows that I'm not gonna let her get away with. You know impulsive things when she has the e-caller on, and so when she doesn't have the e-caller on, she's just like not as confident and she won't go away. She's like scared to make mistakes, basically, and she's a very walter.
Speaker 2:Jesus christ, he never does this he's just being annoying because we got a guest.
Speaker 1:He, he literally never wants to be near us ever like I let dogs push me around all day.
Speaker 3:I'm a dog trainer and I'm still just like I love them. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Walter, but Minka is like a very sensitive girly. Do you hear a squirrel?
Speaker 3:I don't know. I just think I'm like hallucinating at this point.
Speaker 2:No, I just threw a stick, so Walter would be further I saw you throw the stick, tom.
Speaker 3:I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Oh my gosh, that shape over there, that's the dog, that's the dog.
Speaker 3:That's the dog Also, walter is all black, it's black. So he just like, all of a sudden like, exits the tree line and he just like appears, so does Koda. They just disappear.
Speaker 1:I know All you can see is like his pink tongue.
Speaker 2:He's literally like four feet away from the fire. So, meg, he's literally like four feet away from the fire.
Speaker 3:So meg like, how do people pick their dogs, like if they if they're interested in a malinois, if they're interested in a german shepherd or one of these higher drive dogs? What advice do you generally give people?
Speaker 1:um, I ask people what, what their is. But like, more specifically, how do you want to like live your days? You know, because if you're like, oh, I really want to like get into the sport, I would be like hell, yeah, get a Malinois. You know, like, if, yeah, I'm willing to like train my dog like multiple times a day and like create them, and you know, yeah for sure, get a Malinois.
Speaker 1:If, like, I don't know if you, if you live in a house in the suburbs, don't get a livestock guardian dog, don't get an Anatolian shepherd, you know like you're not going to be able to genetically fulfill that dog. So I think, more importantly, we should get clear on what we want our day to day to look like, or what our ideal day looks like, and get the dog that fits that, that like fits your lifestyle. You know, like we talk about it's really important for us that all of our dogs get along. That can happen with all different types of you know dogs, but you need to look at the dog that you already have and what you want your days to look like and what you're willing to do.
Speaker 2:you know, like Toma really wanted to get into sport, so you were like willing to do kind of more of a crate, heavy life yeah, and I mean I think, in case, like I got an older dog with baggage and maybe I mean at the time that's what I wanted, but maybe that's not how I would do it again. And I think, kind of digging a little deeper as far as like what I would recommend someone wanting to get into the sport is like first find a club, find a group of people to train with, but further than that, like okay but that's just like sport.
Speaker 2:No, no, I know I know, but even then I think like it's a maybe an important distinction to make. Some people have sport dogs that live in kennels and are not also pets, and that's totally fine, but you gotta you gotta look at how these people live with their dogs outside of just sport, because exactly like hawk, for example.
Speaker 2:You're not that great in society but I mean like we still take him out on like walks and like I think I, for the dog that he is like you still like integrate him in society. But basically like and like as much as we can, considering like I got him older and whatever, and that's not the main focus. But if you, you know, if sport work represents like 15 of your life and you still want like a pet, maybe you should train with people that like also value that, or that are building dogs that can do both like. I think there's value in kind of like finding those people as well, because you can't just be taking like advice from people that are building, you know, sport dogs exclusively to do sport. Like what's the percentage of the dog's life that is dedicated to this outlet versus like what's the rest of the time?
Speaker 1:look like that you live with this dog yeah, we need to get different types of sporty people on the podcast yeah, that'd be.
Speaker 2:It'd be cool, for sure we need like a border collie person, yeah, you know, because that's a whole other type of working dog I was gonna say like that's the, that's the thing like we can only speak on like our very specific like psa in the bite world, like you do see people who have dogs that are regular pets and you know, maybe the dogs come from different lines and they're more sporty. They're not actually, because there's there's some dogs that are more serious and then there's some dogs that really just do the sport, like as a game, and then maybe those dogs will do better to like transition into, like a regular household situation as well.
Speaker 3:So I think that's that's big on, though. Like, do your research on who you're getting your dog from, like if you're getting a purebred dog or not even purebred, but if you're getting a bred dog, like that's. That's why breeding can be so important. If we're looking at, like buying a dog because, like, if these people have been doing it and it's like tried and true, like you'll see, like the same characteristics come up throughout lines, right throughout the lineage. But I think it's also important to know like it's like my Mal came from. Like she was the first of her litter. Um, like this is the first litter that they've done, and they had like a mixed bag and, like some of them were pet dogs. Only Rook is in the middle, so she's kind of like sporty, but she's not like a really really high drive dog, and a couple of them came out like and they're going to be definitely like PSA or PPD or police dogs, yeah, and we brought them out at a bite night the other day and Meg and Toma got to watch R rook go after.
Speaker 3:Um, we're just putting her on sleeve like on a, on some like early sleeves and burlap sack and stuff like that now. But then her breeder brought out her brother, who is a totally different animal. I mean, they look different, they act different, he's very stable, but the drive is completely different. So I think like also like trusting your breeder to help you pick the right one out of that litter and not just being like I want this one because he looks pretty, yeah, you like the way it looks.
Speaker 3:Or you're like, yeah, I want the fluffy one, but then, like one of the other fluffy ones is like pretty brutal right now and he's with the wrong wrong, not the wrong family, but he's with a family that's going to have to be sportier than I think that they were anticipating yeah, and they said that they wanted it, but now it's like, when it comes down to it, are they actually going to follow through and, like, I don't, I don't know, because he's, yeah, not super confident right now and that's going to be a problem for a dog with a high drive like that.
Speaker 3:yeah, versus Versus Rook who, like, could have gone either way, she could have been more of a pet dog who just, like, needs a very active lifestyle. But I'm pushing her into both to see if she, like, if she wants to do the body stuff, great, we'll do that. If she doesn't, great, then she'll just be my another dog I can take out.
Speaker 1:Cause she's stable, and that's a conversation that I have with people. A lot is kind of talking to them about like hey, this is the dog that you have, whether you get it from a breeder and you've actively chose this, you know, like them. Or if you've just adopted a dog from a shelter and it's a bull herder, like, hey, this is the dog, this is the dog, this is the dog that you have, and here's what you have to do in order to, like one, have this dog safely, have this dog fulfilled, like you know, be a good owner to this dog. And it really is a conversation of like, are you ready to be a dog trainer?
Speaker 3:you know how much are you willing to do? Even my dad, my dad. I've had aussies a lot of my life. My dad had a great aussie in his 20s who was awesome, but he had time. So my dad worked. This dog, got him into agility. The dog was just tuned in, awesome and then with our next one he had a full-time job. His wife had never had a dog like this before. They got this australian shepherd puppy for like a family dog but I had been bugging them about it so he was for me. But this dog came out of the house and my dad was like why is this? And this dog was a menace for like five years. But you have to like deal with that. So like, if that's the dog you get and it's not like your first one, like don't anticipate, your dog's gonna be like your last runner, because you've had a german shepherd growing up, that you're gonna really want a german shepherd now, because I guarantee most people do not want a german shepherd now yeah, your lifestyle changes too.
Speaker 1:That's a very valid point yeah, I think that is like my life. You know, having golden retrievers and then going to malinois is very, very different. Yep, I think I'll always have a malinois, you know, but I very much enjoy my golden retrievers. Yeah, and that's because, like, that's the lifestyle that I like, like I don't like having to worry about minka all the time. You know, like that's you always like, are e-collar is charged head on a swivel, like I, just that it sucks you know?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I guess, in my regard I will probably never get another German Shepherd and I'll probably get another now, did you hear?
Speaker 3:that, Walter. I just said it Don't be a devil.
Speaker 2:But I don't know. I think it's for different reasons. Like German Shepherds are really good because they can, like he can actually be out in the house and I can trust him out of the crate and stuff.
Speaker 1:He doesn't run away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he has a lot of great qualities, like truly, like he sticks close by and like we can go on, like hikes and whatnot, and he was an ex or is but, uh, an excellent like single household dog. But I don't think shepherds do great in like a multi-household and the other thing is they're just so vocal like I can't stand how vocal he is versus.
Speaker 2:The malinois are a lot more quiet walter, just like screams to scream yeah, it's funny I earlier earlier in this podcast um, this is kind of the first time that I realized we actually have more pointies and floppies I know you gotta even that out.
Speaker 1:Crazy, no, and I like I don't know lucy's a lot, but she's different. It's like a different type of drive.
Speaker 2:You know she's definitely cracked out like she'll, she'll like run away. She also makes some bad decisions.
Speaker 1:You know, like lucy, lucy runs away, lucy will leave us I mean she has consistently she's dry.
Speaker 2:She's driving to the point that that's the dog that made you a dog trainer, right? Yes um, but what's the worst thing that's going to happen Really? She's going to come run up to somebody and lick them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like the worst thing that would happen is she just doesn't come back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's going to get adopted by somebody who's going to rescue her, you know, and then she would like run away from that person.
Speaker 1:You know where it's like. You know Malinois and shepherds. I don't want to be walking them through like a crowd of people. I don't have to worry about that with Lucy. I don't have to worry about like a little kid reaching and grabbing her face, you know. So it's different, even though she is like oh look, there's your working dog, working line dog.
Speaker 3:He collared. As we speak, she's learning.
Speaker 2:I was just saying the Malinois are more quiet. Proven us wrong? Mine is not.
Speaker 1:But I think they're just at that age, you know because Muffin is also just like obnoxious sometimes.
Speaker 1:But this kind of goes to the expectations shifting. When you do have like a working line dog, you know, or a Malinois or a shepherd or a high drive lab, your life looks a little bit different. You're most likely creating them more because they don't do the best job of settling or they find jobs for themselves outside of the crate if you're not directly supervising them. They need a lot more structure. They need a lot more guidance. I would say more, more like routine absolutely and they need an outlet.
Speaker 1:You know, and like you can look at zoe, like zoe does not really need an outlet, she's just living life, she's just she's like happy to find like a sun patch and like lay in a sun patch, and that's not to say she doesn't enjoy what we're doing now and like being outside and like going on the hikes like she loves it so much, but she doesn't like need it to be a stable dog. Yeah, you know, zoe would be stable no matter what and it's just kind of what she was bred for like she's a show line golden retriever whoa, I almost went rolling down the hill. Um, she's a shell line golden retriever.
Speaker 1:She's a companion dog, you know, that's literally what she was bred for um, whereas when you have I don't know what are some other dogs, border collies yeah, cattle dogs, yeah, you know hunting dogs like any of the people have cattle dogs in suburbia you know, cattle, I would have a cattle dog for sure.
Speaker 3:Crackhead raccoons, I would totally have one. I think that's my next.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't you feel like Muffin kind of gives cattle dogs?
Speaker 3:She was nipping at Tomo's ankles earlier and I was like, hmm, I feel like she's very border collie-esque. Yeah, but that's a tough dog, like people. It's like what do they call it?
Speaker 2:Like the they say like the smartest dog, like a hick.
Speaker 3:Malinois, it's like the redneck.
Speaker 2:Malinois yeah.
Speaker 3:Cause they are they're drivey, they're mouthy, they're crazy For sure, yeah, there's a car driving by you just jump, Lexi goes yeah, it's like I don't fuck with anybody when I'm out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but they didn't stop. They just drive by on the logging road. But yeah, we really are in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 1:Are you okay this?
Speaker 2:is her face.
Speaker 3:She's like I don't know, you're just a stressy girl. I'm a stressy girl. So I camp out myself a lot of the time, so I am just used to hiding myself away and avoiding everybody with my big dog like that gets it like it's.
Speaker 2:It's scary out in the woods like for sure, you know. But yeah, I trust the bears more than I trust the people yeah, yeah, nothing scarier than a man in the middle of the woods nothing but, we're good thing one and thing.
Speaker 3:Two thing one and thing two Thing one and thing two. That's what she sounds like.
Speaker 2:That's a good way to put it.
Speaker 1:She goes. She's like what the sound of my people.
Speaker 2:She went silent to listen to that.
Speaker 3:I was just going to say, like, getting back to it, if you're considering getting a dog, like talk to a trainer, maybe preemptively, just to get some support on maybe what you're looking for. And if you're considering getting a dog, like talk to a trainer, maybe preemptively, just to get some support on maybe what you're looking for. And if you do, I think like, yeah, an ideal world but yeah, people don't do that like do a console like do a 30 minute consult, an hour console.
Speaker 3:Like pay the the hundred bucks whatever trainer is gonna pay you to kind of like give you some boundaries on what you're looking for. And if you do want a working dog, if you do want a dog that's super active, like that's great. Just like do your homework on where you're getting it from, and if you want one from the shelter, that's awesome. Like talk to the people that are working with those dogs and make sure that you know that, like it comes with a lot more work.
Speaker 1:What else? What else comes I? I think it's important to figure out one, what your dog was bred for and find an outlet for that you know because, like, just because we have malinois doesn't mean we need to do a protection sport. There's malinois who do like dock diving you know, but just like something athletic for the dog to do there's agility.
Speaker 3:There's like games that you can do, there's like barn hunts that you can do.
Speaker 2:There's so many different I mean, like some malinois need to bite, you know, let's just point that out. Yeah, but even like think about in dock diving like they can still, they're still like there's malinois that exceed, that excel in other sports, yes, but I do think like if we're talking about like dogs that are bred for a purpose, there's definitely some malinois that like need to bite, you know yeah, I just want to kind of underline that.
Speaker 2:But I think, going back to like you know, just your average person getting a dog and then it being kind of like more dog than they anticipated, um, I think it's just important to be able to take a step back and to kind of like more dog than they anticipated. Um, I think it's just important to be able to take a step back and to kind of like acknowledge that and then not put this dog in like the cookie cutter mold that you like expected it to be. The expectations are the big thing.
Speaker 1:So we expect life with our dogs to look a certain way and I think when you get a dog that has in, you know, quotations, behavioral issues. Behavioral issues are really just like unfulfilled dogs, and most of the time it's happening a lot with working dogs because they're high drive and you know stuff like that. But um, when, where I don't know where I was going with this, what did I say?
Speaker 2:well, just to be able to adapt right. So your dog ends up being super reactive and stuff.
Speaker 3:Well, maybe for a while stop going on walks and just go to the park and work on just your training and your relationship like run through your obedience commands and then so many other ways to find and fulfill engagement with your dog, and the walk is not it your dog is not getting much out of a 30 to 45 minute walk anyway, like the games that you play are going to not only build your relationship with your dog, but they're also going to get them working physically and mentally, which I feel like they get more out of that than they do on their regular walk around the neighborhood.
Speaker 2:I feel like they get more out of that than they do on their regular walk around the neighborhood. And then, like you know, once your dog's kind of better trained and you haven't been like rehearsing all this like unnecessary reactivity, like just constantly going on walks potentially down the line you take your dog, you know, for this walk around the block that you used to struggle to do, for this walk around the block that you used to struggle to do, and then all of a sudden, like it goes smooth because you have all these like extra tools to like get your dog's engagement back when there is a trigger or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't really realize that though, like you're saying oh well, you know you should talk to a dog trainer I didn't even know that dog trainers existed. Like I didn't when I had Lucy and I was like struggling with Lucy, I didn't even know that that was like a job, that now existed out into the world.
Speaker 3:You're already in the weeds, and then you have to like right A trainer, cause you're like, my dog is going to like another dog and then, like my dog is going to like, yeah, another dog. And then you learn so much more. Even like you're the girl that we were talking, you were speaking to today. It's the same thing. We're like she's been through a couple trainers, but like she had to hit a certain point. She had to hit a certain point for to come to you and to come find you, to find help.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, and I feel like the. The behavioral issues that bring people to see dog trainers are just, it's like unfulfilled dogs, you know, and so you don't. A lot of times you don't even know that you have a working, a working line dog a lot of the dogs you're like reaching out to a dog trainer and you're like help you know, and it's like, oh yeah, this is why you know yeah, you have a pit bull like.
Speaker 2:Like it makes total sense. Malinois mix. Yeah, the amount of times like I remember went to like a coffee shop one time and like this barista was like explaining the dog that he had and it was literally a bull herder.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh, I think he reached out to me.
Speaker 2:I need to message him. That'd be awesome yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, just reminded me. I was like oh, poor guy, okay, so this is perfect. Like I think a big and I don't know, I don't know his experience at all but I think maybe a big part of his frustrations with his dog is his expectations for sure when you get a dog, you expect that dog to you know, be a companion or be like a dog that you had.
Speaker 1:That you know you grew up with. That was the perfect dog and like never bit anybody or never, you know, did anything and that would just be calm.
Speaker 1:You could just leave them coffee shop yeah, you could take them to the coffee shop and you could just leave them out in your house and not have to worry about creating them. And then people get dogs that they can't do that with, like, they leave their dog out in the living room and it destroys their couch or it, you know, gets into the trash or like does all of these bad things and their expectations are what's causing all of that frustration, you know, because you expect that my dog should get along with other dogs and they should be able to, like, hang out in the house, but a lot of working dogs can't, you know, like they do require, speaking of muffin losing her mind making all those grumbling sounds scratching she's trying to like dig her way out of the rough one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know, but if we had muffin out or all the dogs right now, they would we'd have to supervise them we would have to supervise them and I don't think that that's the expectation that a lot of people have going into owning dogs yeah and so I think our jobs as the dog trainers is to as the dog trainer is to um educate people on how to better live with the dog that they have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think a lot of times people think that being a dog trainer is like just teaching dog skills. But we're really like the doggy translator. You know, we're meeting the dog, we're meeting the owner, we're seeing their lifestyle. That's like a lot of what I do is talk to people. Okay, what is your lifestyle? What is your lifestyle? What is your work routine? What sort of you know space do you live in? Do you have a yard? Do you have property or in an apartment complex Like that gives me a lot of information that I need to better direct you on how to live with the dog that you have.
Speaker 3:And I think just accepting that is very hard for people. But also, you know my client, I just gave back a board and train and I had to let them know like this dog is still a very nervous dog, she's just nervy and she'll get there over time. But like she's not a dog that can go into like stressful, like schooling events yet like she's just not there. And if you're going to go train in that scenario, do it at a time where your kids aren't the ones in the sporting event and you're going to get embarrassed.
Speaker 3:Like go somewhere that you can practice these things and get confident as the handler and get your dog used to those things and just set your dog up for success set him up for success and like look at the and that is the thing I think, from where we started to where we ended over this last couple months that I've had this client is like she understands so much more about her dog and she has accepted it and she's doing the work to be able to like, make sure this dog lives the a happy life as she is. And that doesn't mean she's not going to do the training. It doesn't mean she's not going to follow through with everything that I did on the board and train. It just means she looks at the dog differently now and respects that, and I think that's what everyone has to start doing. Just look at the dog that's directly in front of you and try and work with it.
Speaker 1:Toma and I have a client and he frequently gets overwhelmed with his dog and we've been working with him since his dog was a puppy and when I met him I was like, hey, this is going to be a lot of dog, you know, like you're going to have to figure out an outlet for him, like you're going to have to provide a lot of structure for him, and he still finds himself like getting caught up in his expectations of you know. He wants him to be a coffee shop dog and he takes him into the coffee shop and he's like reactive to people and other dogs, people and other dogs, yeah, and so he's like getting so frustrated with himself and like beating himself up and like, oh my gosh, like what am I doing? And I'm like that's just not what he is. You know he is just not that dog and that's okay and we can work towards that, like we can continue to work on it.
Speaker 2:But take your other dog you know, funny enough, he has another dog. That's perfect for that.
Speaker 1:She's an amazing coffee shop dog, one you know guilty about it. I has another dog that's perfect for that.
Speaker 3:She's an amazing coffee shop dog I feel guilty about it. I have another client that when they got the dog I knew it was just a problem. I was like this is just not going to fit the lifestyle that they want. I know them, they're friends and I don't usually take friends as clients because I can't be.
Speaker 2:I mean. I can be hard with them, but they generally like I don't know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just like separation of as much as I can and um sure enough like and they did a lot of the training with this dog. But this dog is. She's a husky shepherd catalog mix and she's just got some of the worst personality traits of all of the dogs. Yeah, and she's so great with them in home at times, but she is. She's just got some challenging things that she has to deal with. And they met up with me recently and they're trying to start a family and this dog does not like strangers in the house.
Speaker 3:She will put teeth on people and I had to be very honest with them and say, like I warned you about this and that's okay. But now this is where we're at and this dog is not a dog that like can be out when people come over. Then like maybe she's just a dog that like she gets crated when people come over and that's okay, like people aren't going to stay at your house for two weeks straight and it's like a punishment. But like when people come over she's not comfortable. So get her comfortable in the crate and put her away and that's okay. Get her out in the morning, get a dog walker in the house that like she knows that she trusts. So when you have this child come into your life, like the dog still gets exercise and what it needs. But you're gonna have to adjust and you know I was like if this dog goes back to the shelter, I don't know if she's gonna make it out.
Speaker 3:Honestly, I was like she has a bite on her, like she's got sketchy personality, she's very nervous and she gets shut down in the shelter so she seems better than she is and then she comes out and she shows all these very like possessive and insecure qualities and it can be trained.
Speaker 3:And I was like your other option is sending off to a very high caliber board and train that has time for a dog like this, with particular skills for this. And, you know, are you willing to invest the six thousand dollars on a board and train and then follow up with the training for the next year? Yeah, and they are, like you know, going back and forth with that and like they asked about rehoming this dog and I was like you're going to have a very, very hard time placing this dog. I was like you can put the word out, you can do that, but we we talked about it a bit later and they were like we think we're going to keep her and just change our expectations of her yeah, I was like great, and if you want another dog in the future, like I will help you find the right dog for your family.
Speaker 3:I was like I already have an idea of what I think you guys would love and we can go from there when you're ready. And they were like, oh, we can get another dog. And I was like, yeah, you can. I was like it just depends like what you're looking for and I think you also like relate to that a lot.
Speaker 3:I do and I mean it was hard for me to accept with Coda, like I used to bring Coda out all the time and then like nothing happened. But there was a couple things where I was like, oh, that could have been not great and I put him in those positions like he wasn't comfortable and I was like in crowded places and I was like he doesn't like that, like he's nervous and whiny and anxious and I'm like, oh, he's just like being a shepherd, but he doesn't fucking like that Right. So like why am I going to put him in that position? Like he's going to be sleeping on his expensive ass dog bed in my house where he's got access to the yard. He's good.
Speaker 3:So I do relate. But I also I think people need to be very realistic about their lifestyle and like truly like if you want an active dog that you can go hiking with, like let's find you that. But maybe it's not. Uh, maybe it's not a malinois, maybe it's not a german shepherd, maybe they look cool, because you see these cool videos on instagram and that looks sick, but like you don't know the hours that go into some of those dogs.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's not a hobby, it's a lifestyle. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's literally our entire life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not to like.
Speaker 1:It's literally our entire life.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's just you got to really be ready to commit.
Speaker 3:Everyone's like oh my God.
Speaker 1:No, but it's a big adjustment for me, you know, and I'm like I'm half in the sport world. I'm not a competitive person at all. I enjoy doing it because I'm really bad at the sport training and it's humbling for me and I think it's important for me to be coached by somebody you know and be better, just like be a better trainer. So that's why I enjoy doing it. I don't necessarily and like maybe, you know, maybe I'll look back on this podcast and be like, but I don't necessarily see myself getting super deep and to competing and like being this I think what happens is you end up spending so much time doing the thing of like training.
Speaker 2:It's like, okay, might as well test the training by competing, you know yeah, but you enjoy it like you enjoy competing yeah, for sure, I'm a very competitive person.
Speaker 1:No, I mean it feels like I'm on like a sport team you know, I'm like not, not, yeah be better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, it's like I think dog sports are good for people who are like intense sports in college or high school or whatever. I'm like I was on the swim team um, I didn't do like team sports, but no, that's why I do it, and it's also fulfilling, for Minka doesn't need it, but Muffin definitely does. We're talking about the today. Muffin is like oh okay, you definitely need an outlet to like bite things. Minka would be fine just living the golden retriever life, but I think a big part of that, too, is because that's kind of how I raised her. I think she's a more sensitive malinois than muffin, for sure, but minka grew up with zoe and lucy and so she just does golden retriever things, you know but I think, if you would like try to just mold muffin, I don't think it would work either, you know right, because like she's like hanging off yeah, she's like hanging on to zoe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, minka, minka is definitely not like that she has like full mouth on dogs at all times. She's just crazy, yeah, like I saw videos of minka.
Speaker 2:she's like so sweet You're just able to cuddle her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Minka would be sitting in my lap the entire podcast Muffin would never, Muffin would never no, but she's funny and I feel like she's a good next step for me because Minka was very similar to Rookie in that she was a good first Malinois for me and I got to get better at my handling and my markers and my timing and just be a better dog trainer.
Speaker 1:She also gave me a ton of opportunities. I don't think that I would be in the position that I am now if I didn't get Minka, because it opens up a lot. A lot of dog trainers have sport dogs, you know, and you we go out to a PSA thing, you know, when you have Malinois, like that's what you do and you network and get to meet more people and have opportunities. So I'm very grateful that you know. Things worked out the way that they did and Minka was my first Malinois and I got her when I did and same thing with Muffin. I think I'm finally ready to have like a real Malinois, but also not too crazy because she's literally like 30 pounds.
Speaker 3:It's nice Like she's moving up, though, yeah. Brooke was funny, like the trainers that convinced me like I was not looking for a dog at all, and then I was with a bunch of decoys and PSA people, you definitely were looking at dogs. I'm always looking at dogs, though I'm like constantly searching. I am looking for dogs.
Speaker 2:You were definitely like we met you the whole, like last year or whatever, and you were, yeah, walter's, just like clock us with a stick.
Speaker 3:Walter's like trying to kill us with this blog.
Speaker 1:No, I've this blog. Um no, I've been looking you were definitely looking like, yeah, you're gonna take in some like I know another problem dog.
Speaker 3:I love problem dogs I don't, I think I do, and then I have it in my house for like six months but is it?
Speaker 3:having like no, she was amazing and and it's funny because I was with all these people and they were like, when are you getting a sport dog? And I was like I'm not really looking for like a really intense dog right now. My work schedule just doesn't allow it. I ended up looking at Rook and then the trainers that I was working with at the time, like that we were just like I was going to some bite nights that they were doing and they didn't like her because she was too silly yeah.
Speaker 3:And I was like never mind, and the breeder is a friend of mine and she was like kind of upset about it but like let it go. And just because I was like, oh yeah, I guess I'm taking this dog. And then, uh, and then I met Rook again a couple weeks later and I was like, oh, she's nice and she's like why don't you like let her meet Coda? And it ended up working out really nicely. Like Coda was the first dog I've had in my house that, like coda, didn't try and eat. Well, they came into the house and it worked out. But like if I had gone for one of the other pups in the litter, I mean I was looking at like one of the males and like it would not have gone well. And rook is very forgiving. So in my training, as I'm learning higher level obedience, like she's going to be forgiving in my mistakes. She's very patient. She's patient. She's not like way too drivey where. She's going to like nuke me if I miss on a bite.
Speaker 3:She goes for me for sure, but not as intense as some of these other dogs would have been. So the breeder really like, had my back there and was like I think this is the right level dog for you right now and it worked out. So I'm just like you with minka. I think it's the right dog for the right time.
Speaker 1:I'm glad I waited. Yeah, and what have we learned so far with her? What have we learned so far? Don't leave water out.
Speaker 3:Dude, this dog just inhales water. Malinois's I didn't know this. I know a lot about a lot of different dogs. Like I was that like weirdo kid that had like dog books and I used to just like read about all the breeds and Malinois's like try and drown themselves from the inside. This girl, this girl will drink as much water as I leave out and then just pee constantly. Yes, so that, um, I had to be strict on a crate routine in the beginning, which I'm a big freedom girly and all of my trainer friends hate me for it because I'm just like freedom for all of my fosters. Uh, with her she needed more structure initially and now she can be out. And like I'm lucky that Coda is so mellow in my house because she'll like go and hang out with him and kind of just follow him around and he's very chill. So that's been good. But like, yeah, she needed a little bit stricter routine. Her diet's a bit different and will be, but the water is the big one.
Speaker 1:I feel like this has been good for her because she like, if you're here, you would have your dogs out always, you know. But I think I think a balance is good to and we're rotating the dogs, you know, she's not always the dog that's out there's like a dog to be out constantly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she said that about coda. She's like this is good for you, crying in the back but it's not like we're not fulfilling them like they're literally getting to run through. Oh no, they're living the rest life right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah but, but, even like I would take it a step further with the other dogs.
Speaker 1:There's like the aspect of fomo, you know like, yeah, you're like, why is that dog out right now? And that's what's super valuable about a board and train too yeah, teaches them patience and just like, wait your turn yeah, wait your turn.
Speaker 1:The world doesn't revolve around you. It's like public school. That's what we used to say we'd be like. The house is like public school, like it humbles you a little bit, you know it humbles the dogs. Like you're sitting out here and she's not out here and she's not used to that you know. And she definitely threw a temper tantrum and we had a little learning moment there of just because you throw a temper tantrum doesn't mean mommy's gonna come. Let you out of the crate right away. Right, right, right.
Speaker 3:I'm telling you her inhaling this water and peeing in the crate has like traumatized me because of how much pee I've had to clean out of this water and peeing in the crate has like traumatized me because of how much pee I've had to clean out in this week.
Speaker 1:No, I know Muffin is the same like she's better now she's getting better, which is funny because, like Muffin, Muffin was literally bad last week and like just this week has been good but then like Minka and Hawk, I would say like they drink like hardly any water. Minka. I have to force her to drink water, but I mean I'm giving her raw, but like still she does not drink water and I'm like, please just drink the water, and even today, because we've been feeding them so much recently. It's my dog, it's Walter.
Speaker 2:He went right and now he's behind me on the left there's a branch that cracked.
Speaker 1:We've been feeding the dogs a lot recently because I bought like four boxes of raw and we need.
Speaker 3:It's like how much? How much do you have in your freezer right now? I'm like it's buy three get one.
Speaker 1:There was a deal yeah, well, I was like buying all this stuff and she's like you know that's buy three, get one free, and I was like, hell yeah, I'm gonna save 150 dollars on a box like a free box of raw yeah, for sure, definitely. So I've overfed them a lot the past couple days and like we're traveling, so I'm trying to get through the raw before, like we have a freezer, but I don't know.
Speaker 2:I just overfed is a big word. I mean they're. They're running around a lot, they're fine yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But even minka was like. When I gave her a raw patty earlier, she was like yeah okay, you may be overfeeding her, she's like oh okay, these are like the leanest dogs you've seen.
Speaker 3:They're like muscular and perfect.
Speaker 1:Overfeeding is a no, they're definitely not overfed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think it's like anything, sometimes they get more freedom, sometimes they get more crate time, sometimes they eat a little less. Sometimes they eat a little less, sometimes they eat a little more. It's like everything, just in balance, yeah, consistently inconsistent literally
Speaker 3:I think that's the biggest thing I've gotten from being around more sporty people, though, with dogs like this, that they are crate and rotating like. I have a, a friend, who has like eight of her own duchies and mouths in the house at all time and it is like they are separated. And I remember I used to go over and she'd be like just put the dogs in the crate, they'll be fine. I'd be like oh no, like I don't want to do that, and she'd be like no, just put the dogs in the crate, we'll let them out like in a couple hours, and I was like yeah, but like I don't know, like I'm gonna come over there, like I don't need, and she's like it's good for them to be in this environment where it's loud, and she's got like need to understand that this is like a part of training and life for some of these dogs. It's good for them. More downtime allows them to kind of like rest, because a lot of these mouths will just run themselves silly if you don't do it for them.
Speaker 1:Put them in a time out, oh yeah for sure, take a nap and to be able to like, do things like this because we we as a group of dog trainers with all our own dogs like we could not have all of these dogs out at once, like we would not be able to manage them. There would be fights, for sure, and then it'd be fun no, it would.
Speaker 1:It would not be fun and so what we're doing which I think is like shocking to a lot of people, like if I like tell my parents about this, it it's like you know they're kind of the same mentality of like, well, the dogs are just, like you know, always out and they're like they are expected to get along, but we rotate. You know Walter is out right now and we can have my female out minus Muffin with Walter. You know, like we can have Zoe and Lucy out with Walter, but we just haven't introduced Muffin with Walter. We can have Zoe and Lucy out with Walter.
Speaker 2:We just haven't introduced Muffin and Walter yet, but there should be good ones. We do.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I need to get Muffin under control.
Speaker 2:She's a little annoying. She would get corrected by Walter.
Speaker 1:Walter doesn't correct the dogs fairly. So it's like okay, we can't put a dog that we know Walter is going to correct too much, because then he's gonna like traumatize that dog but I guess, like, in short, all the dogs get different rules yeah, but we switch it up.
Speaker 1:We switch up the groups, yes, you know. So I feel like it's good for like just you, to have your two dogs out and then, like, my dogs are away and then they get to see my dogs out because they're not used to that, you know, they're used to like just those two dogs living in a household yeah, I mean even in my own household.
Speaker 3:Like I make sure rook's away so coda gets time out too. Like it's nice to like rotate your dogs internally as well I think it's like my dogs have one-on-one time with me.
Speaker 3:So like, yeah, do I want to take both of them on a walk, but it's going to be like super dark in an hour. Yeah. So like, yeah, do I want to take both of them on a walk, but it's going to be like super dark in an hour. Yeah. So like, maybe coda just gets to go and then brook I get to play games within the house, or something like that.
Speaker 2:But I love one-on-one time for each of my dogs individually as well yeah yeah, so we speak of routine and I think it like scares people, but it's like the routine could vary. You know, you just need a couple like key elements that are consistent.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like the crate.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the crate. I feel like we're good at either feeding the dogs once we put them away, giving them water, giving them a treat. I think that is my claim to fame. I think is getting the routine of you do something active with the dog. They go back into the crate. You give them something.
Speaker 3:And then they're just always going, they out, yeah, and it becomes a good you know spot yeah, and then they love the crate, they.
Speaker 1:They happily go back, you know understand.
Speaker 3:The crate is like not a punishment, it's a place to go. It's like they get to come back out and do it all again we'll give we got little chews.
Speaker 1:we'll give you meal. We'll give you a bowl of water, we'll give you something when you come back inside. It's like a little kid running around outside and comes back in for a snack. That's how I feel about these children.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's just different expectations and I think as dog trainers, it's our job to help people understand what that looks like, because we're very deep into it, you know, and so it crate and rotate is like nothing for us. You know we're very used to that and we know that not all the dogs are going to get along, or I'm not going to set a bowl of water down and be like all right, guys, everybody go drink from the same bowl of water at the same time. You know I'm not going to hand out treats or throw a ball like in a group of dogs. So I think that stuff is very second nature to us just because we do it all the time around a bunch of different dogs. But as dog trainers, it's our job to teach everybody else that you know, when you might not know what it means to have the dog that you have.
Speaker 1:yeah, toma is being a dad right now and taking pictures it's not behind the scenes you're gonna be thankful to have a behind the scene footage of this podcast that we filmed by a fire oh, my goodness, I know if I was a better youtuber I would have charged my camera so that I could start recording our podcast. That was one of the comments, quite a few comments, that I got from the episode with shane and celine. They were like, they like.
Speaker 2:Wrote me negative reviews for not not having a for not having video I was like damn that was also a very cool setting for a podcast. That's great feedback, though. I mean, I it's. So here's the thing if we film, or if every podcast has to be filmed, then sometimes a podcast doesn't happen so I would rather have something than nothing, you know so just be grateful that today you got a podcast.
Speaker 1:Because it is a lot like every week to have a new podcast episode. You know, I know that's why people do this for a living.
Speaker 2:It's their full-time jobs.
Speaker 3:Content creators are crazy dude. This is the life.
Speaker 2:But you've been consistent I do my best.
Speaker 1:I do my best, but, with that being said, I can't always film everything, but I someday you know.
Speaker 2:So be grateful for the five second clip of your dad.
Speaker 1:Thank you, toma. Thank you Toma. All right guys, we got anything to add?
Speaker 3:I'm ready to get in this van and get away from she's stressing.
Speaker 1:Alright, we will wrap it up so that Lex can go hide away in the van. I'm just gonna hide with my German Shepherd.
Speaker 2:I thought you were more of an outdoor girlie than that. Come on.
Speaker 3:Dude the second the sun's down. I am put away. You're literally Koda I literally crate myself and go to bed Little reminder for you guys next virtual shadow program starts September 8th.
Speaker 1:I'll put the link in the show notes for that. Thank you guys so much. Thank you Toma, thank you Lex. Great times.
Speaker 2:Pleasure being on here.
Speaker 1:And thank you guys so much for listening.
Speaker 3:We'll meet you back here next week. Walty, it's not walter, it's a bear.