How To Pick A Puppy

You can fall in love with a puppy in five seconds, then spend the next five years managing the fallout. Meg and Kassidy record from a hotel room in San Luis Obispo after driving up to meet a rescue litter of Australian Cattle Dog puppies, and we get very honest about how we decide whether we should bring one home at all. We talk rescue sourcing, what “backyard bred” can mean in practice, and the uncomfortable but real spay abort debate that shows up in shelter medicine and rescue culture. 

From there we get practical. We walk through the checklist we use before we ever say yes: your daily schedule, your energy level, your current dogs, and what role you actually need this dog to fill. We cover how to assess puppy temperament when you meet a litter, including simple “startle and recovery” tests like dropping a loud object, watching curiosity, and noticing who hides and stays hidden. We also define drive in plain terms and explain why the most intense puppy can be perfect for an experienced sport home and a disaster for a typical pet home. 

We zoom out to the bigger picture too: integrating a puppy with older dogs without ruining their peace, why a good breeder often matches you to a puppy, and why shelter stress can make temperament hard to read. Finally, we get real about breed traits, city living, kids, nipping risk, liability, and the cost of training and fulfillment. If you’re Googling “how to pick a puppy” or “cattle dog puppy temperament,” this conversation gives you a clear framework to make a decision you won’t regret. 

If this helps, subscribe, share it with a friend who’s puppy shopping, and leave a review so more people stop buying mismatched dogs on impulse. What’s the one non-negotiable on your puppy checklist?

Visit us on the website here to see what we've got going on and how you can join our pack of good dogs and owners.

Transcript

Welcome And The Puppy Road Trip

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hello, hello, and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

My name is Meg, and I am a dog trainer. Today I am joined by my lovely friend Cassidy, and we are gonna talk with you guys about how to pick a puppy. You know the drill? Grab yourself a tasty drink and meet me back here.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Hey guys, welcome back. Say hey, Cassidy. Hi.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

We are sharing a mic today because I only packed one mic and we're actually in a hotel room in San Luis Obispo. Tell them what we're doing.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

We drove up to check out some cattle dog puppies.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

Yay!

SPEAKER_04 1:08

On a whim. Definitely on a whim.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

On a whim. Um, somebody posted some cattle dog puppies, one of our trainer friends, and I was like, oh my gosh, I need a cattle dog puppy. I've wanted a cattle dog puppy for a while. You also have.

SPEAKER_04 1:26

I have wanted a cattle dog puppy for years, a few years now.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Yeah. We call them redneck malinois. So it's time, it's time. But I figured this would be a good time to kind of talk about how to source where we're getting our dogs from, what our checklist is, how we're gonna raise the puppies are.

SPEAKER_04 1:52

And also how to pick one from the litter.

Rescue Sourcing And Spay Abort Explained

SPEAKER_01 1:54

And how to pick one from the litter. So we found these puppies through a rescue, which typically, if you're getting a dog through a rescue, they are usually what we would consider quote backyard bred, right? So they're not being intentionally bred for some sort of purpose. Usually it's an accident, accidental litter. In the case of these puppies, they she was a what spay abort?

SPEAKER_04 2:22

She was a spay abort, which is kind of controversial in the rescue world.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Yeah. I muffin was supposed to be a spay abort, and I got a lot of heat online for rescues. No, just from people online who are like, she should be dead, basically.

SPEAKER_04 2:40

That's so random coming from.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

I was like, okay, well, she's not, and she's here. Should I kill her? This is my dog. Yeah, it's not, it's like, I I didn't, I'm not the one who made that decision. I'm just the one who like rescued her, you know. Also, I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 2:58

It's considered an unethical decision to not perform spay aborts in the rescue world. Okay, so let's talk about like what that is. Okay, spay abort is basically when a dog is pregnant and comes into the shelter and they open her up and remove the puppies. But a lot of times, because dogs are only pregnant for like two months, by the time they realize the dog is pregnant, she usually doesn't show for the first month. So by the time they realize the dog is pregnant and they go in and they open her up, there are pretty much fully developed puppies. And they're either then euthanized or and the mom's euthanized. It can be just a little controversial because essentially now like this litter was nine cattle dog puppies that a lot of rescue people would argue shouldn't be here because there's a plethora of puppies in the shelter that needs. So I understand that perspective, but it's a little morbid, it's a little morbid, and it seems a little extreme when people are just trying to do the right thing and pull this pregnant dog that needs a safe place to give birth and have her puppies. And she's a great dog, also. She's a great dog. The mom is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

The mom was amazing. I was shocked when she was there and she's like hopped out and was like, hey, come see my puppies.

SPEAKER_04 4:30

Yeah, so nice. They said that she has uh a doctor and they took her for a day, took her to the beach, took her to a patio, and she was just bomb proof in all those situations.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

Yeah, which was a big like influencer for me.

SPEAKER_04 4:44

Big influencer for like, oh, okay. I can't meet the mom, or she's a little sketchy. I'm kind of like, okay.

Cassidy’s Rescue Background And Hard Lessons

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Yeah, yeah, for sure. So tell us a little bit about your experience in your background.

SPEAKER_04 4:59

Uh, okay, where do I start?

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Um I would say the days when you were renting out hotel rooms and had like 10 dogs just free roaming.

Puppy Trauma And Why Temperament Matters

SPEAKER_04 5:08

Okay, I was a little crazy. Um I uh at like 20 years old was kind of running my own little underground rescue where I lived in Minnesota at the time. I was going to college, but I grew up in Oklahoma. So in Oklahoma and all throughout the southern United States, anywhere where there's a warm climate, there's a plethora of dogs. There's just tons of dogs running around having babies everywhere. They're really cheap from the shelter, they're euthanizing like crazy. And it's not like that in the north because they have harsh winters and all the dogs would die. So I it if you think about this, this could be a genius business. I did not run it that way because I am not business savvy, but I basically started taking dogs from the shelter from euthanas, manically driving them across the country and finding homes for them in Minnesota where I lived at the time. So through that process, I got so lucky so many times. Like I look back on the stuff I used to do, and it's amazing that I didn't have more dog fights break out. But we survived and we made it, and I learned a lot of lessons the hard way. And I essentially got into training dogs because I had some hard dogs, and I knew that if I did not figure out how to train these dogs and get them adopted, I would be stuck with them forever. And at 21, 22, 23, I could not be stuck with five pit bulls that all hated each other. Yeah. So that's the short version of my intro. But before all that, so I'm kind of nervous about getting a puppy because I haven't had a puppy since before all that. My first puppy ever, before all this dog life that I have, I got a puppy and he got bit by a pit bull at the beach. And I've never heard a puppy scream like that in the way he cried for a while. And then after a few days later, he started walking in left circles only. He could only walk in left circles. And when I took him to the vet, they thought that the pressure of the bite did something to his brain, and he had brain damage. And they think he had hydrocephalus, which literally translates to water on the brain. And at five months old, he like completely lost his mind, and I had to put him down. And I remember the vet coming in and looking at me and asking if he had bit me because they weren't sure if he had rabies. I he didn't have rabies. I know he didn't have rabies, he would have been dead by then, but it was just so like to have a vet look at you and genuinely be afraid, and because it's a tiny little puppy who's screaming his head off and acting so feral. So to have a vet look at you and none of the vets had any idea really what was going on was a very scary experience. So that was kind of I guess my first puppy as an adult. How old were you? I was 19.

unknown 8:31

Okay.

Build Your Lifestyle Puppy Checklist

SPEAKER_04 8:32

Still very young. Very young. My parents did not support me getting this puppy because I was 19 and living in a college house, but I did it anyway. And then after that, they felt so bad that he died, obviously, as anyone would, that they adopted a six-month-old puppy, Dexter, who is now my dog, and drove him up to me. And so Dexter has his little quirks, and then down the line, I adopted Lana. She was like a year and a half. She has her quirks. And I'm excited to raise a puppy that from what I've seen so far seems to have a pretty stable demeanor. And it's just gonna be a different experience because there's things like Dexter has really bad car anxiety, for example. And nothing I there's nothing I can do to change that. There's not drugging him, he fights against the drugs. Like, unless I fully sedated him, there is nothing I can really do to help his car anxiety at this stage in his life. He's had it since the moment my dad picked him up from the rescue. I remember my dad FaceTimed me on the way home, and Dexter was having a complete panic attack in the car. So, like what we saw today was nothing compared to what it used to be. Yeah, but he's also nine. He's also nine. So it's taken us nine years to get to get him to this place. So he's made a lot of progress, but it's pretty much peaked on that sense. Anyway, I'm just excited to have a puppy and be able to take her for car rides at a really young age and really kind of set her up to be a dog that I can do more with, I guess. Yeah. Especially now with what you know as a trainer. Absolutely. Absolutely. I will be taking her pretty much everywhere that I can from day one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:39

So when we were driving up, we were kind of talking about it, and I I don't know. I talked about this previously with Muffin. Like I always just kind of know when it's my dog or I'm gonna get a dog. And when I saw these puppies, I was like, oh, okay. You know, I'm gonna get them.

SPEAKER_04 11:00

But you texted me at like 7 a.m.

Spotting Nervy Puppies With Simple Tests

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Yeah. I was like, okay, are you ready? You ready to drive up to five hours? Like, let's go. Um, but you know, kind of being more rational and less impulsive. I first and foremost, I have other dogs. And my like group of dogs, all my girls, they're very important to me. And something that I prioritize with my dogs is that everybody gets along. And we've talked on this podcast before that Toma, his dogs don't get along, and it really makes life difficult. And I would never want to bring another dog in that doesn't get along with my pack of dogs, basically. So, all this to say, I think we have to have some sort of checklist for ourselves whenever we go to get another dog. You don't want to just get another dog without thinking about the breed, your lifestyle, you know, like how this dog is going to fit into your life, what type of temperament you want from the dog, whether you have other dogs or not, and what kind of temperament you think would fit best. So we need to really think about these things before we get dogs, because I can't tell you how many times and like people that we work with get dogs that do not fit their lifestyle at all. And then they're trying to re-home the dog two years later, once the dog has practiced all of these bad behaviors and you know, develop all of these tendencies that make it less likely to end up in homes. And so people get these dogs with the expectation, like, for example, you know, getting a lab puppy and then getting upset when it's being a puppy, you know, and you know, you're gonna have a puppy for at least two years. Like that puppy's gonna be acting like a puppy. That puppy's gonna be acting like a puppy for a long time. And a lot of people get dogs or you know, young dogs, and they're like, okay, well, I have a full-time job. I took two weeks off, and that's enough time to train a puppy, right? And it's like, no, that is not enough time. And, you know, well, I I am super busy. Like, I can't get this dog on a crate schedule, I can't potty train it, I can't do all of these things. Well, we need to think about those things before we ever even get the dog. So for me, my checklist for this dog was I have two kind of spicy Malinois, and my two Goldens are getting older. Zoe is 13, Lucy is nine. And something that is very important to me is that I have dogs that can be demo dogs and that other people can handle because I'll use my dogs in lessons, and I like when I can kind of pass them off to an owner, and I can be like, hey, trade me dogs, you know, or put, you know, Lucy in the room with another dog. And I know Lucy's super neutral and I don't have to worry her about her around people or other dogs. And, you know, I'm saying all of this, and it's like, okay, Meg, why are you getting a cattle dog? But I was like, okay, I have my spicy dogs, I don't want the most drivey dog out of the out of this litter, you know. So I went going into it with that mindset of, okay, I really kind of want more so the cuppy cake dog. I want a confident dog, but I don't want the most dominant. I don't want the most drivey. And we kind of saw that today. So I think it's really important that before we ever even get dogs or we add more dogs onto our pack, we need to get really clear of our expectations of what type of dog we need to bring in that fits with our lifestyle and our other dogs. So when we were driving up, I was like, okay, if these dogs are nervy at all, I'm not getting them. So how would you kind of explain what that looks like and some ways that we tested it out when we saw the puppies?

SPEAKER_04 15:15

I think when I fostered this cattle dog puppy once who was very nervy. He I ended up completely falling in love with him, but he started out very nervy. He, the second you'd walk towards him, he would submissive pee, he would growl at strangers. He was a very spicy dog, and he was very young to be showing those signs. These dogs are younger than he was, and I think kind of what we were talking about before is if we walk in and there's a difference in puppy puppies just barking because they're puppies, and like being excited, yeah, and being happy to see you, and puppies reacting, and you can see that at a very young age in puppies, and we were definitely on the same page about that going in. I also think we didn't know exactly what they were mixed with, and as we were pulling up, the lady who runs the rescue had texted us, texted you that the DNA results were in, and we were kind of like, okay, what are we walking into? She wanted to tell us in person. Turns out they're full bred full bred Australian cattle dogs, which is great, but I do think it's I see a big gap in the cattle dogs that I just see out in public. I either see amazing cattle dogs that are super social, super stable, and then I see crazy cattle dogs that come to us for training because they're nipping their the kids in the house and biting people. So there's a there's kind of two ends to it. How we tested some of their nerves while we were there is taking loud objects and dropping them, taking a metal bowl and tossing it away from them. And you want to see what puppies, what the how the puppies respond. Do they run towards it in a fearful way? Do they run towards it with excitement? Are they curious about it? It's okay if a puppy kind of jumps back for a second and then comes back in to investigate. But there was only one puppy out of the litter that ran and hid under the place cot when that happened. Yeah. And she was oddly like the driviest one, I would say. I still think she'd be a really fun dog, but that's not necessarily what I'm looking for in my next dog. I think as dog trainers, it's really easy for people to assume that we should take the crazies and we should take the spicy dogs and the drivey dogs, and because we can handle them.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

And that was also something that we were talking about as we're driving up. I was like, this might be, and I didn't know the woman who runs the rescue, but she turned out to be such a cool person. She was so cool. We love her. But I was like, I don't want this to be one of those things where she knows that we're dog trainers, and so she's gonna give us the worst puppies. The worst puppies, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 18:20

Yeah, just because we can handle them, but I think that's all the more reason that we shouldn't necessarily be taking those dogs because we do run businesses out of our homes and we use our dogs in our business, and it can be very difficult when you are creating rotating all of your dogs all the time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Which a lot of people do, um, but it that's just not a priority for me. And I am always going to prioritize the well-being of my current dogs over bringing any new dog in. And so I very much went into this, like, yes, they're cute. Yes, I would love to get a puppy, but I am not going to just get a puppy to get a puppy. It needs to make sense and fit in with my goals of what I want to do with this puppy.

Puppies With Older Dogs Without Guilt

unknown 19:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:15

And I think for me at least, it's been, you know, I have my dogs are eight and nine, and things are pretty chill in my house. Like we have a pretty my dogs are kind of like cats these days. And I was nervous about disrupting that, but I actually think bringing a puppy in, which we talked about at dinner earlier, will kind of liven up the house a little bit. Yeah. And I think it's good for older dogs to be around puppies as long as you're still advocating for your older dog and not making them babysit your puppy all the time and teach them everything about life.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

Yeah. So I started off with Zoe, she's my first dog, and then I got Lucy. And I actually got Lucy because I felt bad for being at school all the time. And I was like, I'm gonna get another dog. And this was just before I knew anything, you know, I was just like a college kid. And then obviously, Lucy led me to get into dog training and start my dog training business and yada yada yada. And then I was like, oh, I got a backyard bred field line golden retriever who is a little bit nervy and is not Zoe. She requires a lot more training. Um, but and Zoe and her kind of hated each other at first, and I actually considered re-homing Lucy. But really, it was just I wasn't advocating for Zoe's space, and she was so annoyed with Lucy, which, like we all were. I should have been crating her more. But with that being said, uh one there's another dog trainer, she was posting on her story recently about she was talking about how she has an 11-year-old dog and she really wants to get a puppy, and she's trying not to be impulsive, but she has a lot of guilt with bringing in a puppy with her older dog, and she was like, I don't want to ruin like my older dog's retirement. And we were talking a little bit about that as well because you were feeling you know the same way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:13

I was kind of like, Am I gonna feel bad? Not, you know, Dexter and Lana, we have a great life. We do our little thing, we do our little walks, and they love their life. And so I was really worried about disrupting the peace of that by bringing a puppy in. And then I thought back to when my parents first got Dexter before driving him up to me. We they had a 10 or 11-year-old dog. And I think it added time onto her life being around a puppy for a little bit. And after Dexter came up to live with me, my parents got another puppy because it was they just saw this new light come out of her. Now, that doesn't mean that I'm going to just throw the puppy in my yard with my dogs and be like, come on, let's be best friends. Yeah. I'm I'm going to I'm definitely gonna start with setting boundaries with the puppy and not forcing my dog you know, Dexter, I don't think would love to be around a super young puppy. So I might wait until she's a little bit older before kind of forcing him to be around her. And even that, it's never going to be like I'm gonna read his body language and let him kind of decide when he wants to be friends with her. Yeah. I'm not gonna force it.

unknown 22:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:30

Because that's how you get dogs like Zoe setting the boundaries when they don't want to be a full-time babysitter.

Drive Versus Stability In A Litter

SPEAKER_01 22:36

Zoe was literally hiding in the crate from Lucy, and it was Lucy's crate, and she would go and put herself in it. And I'm like, Zoe, you know, and it's like so silly looking back, but you just don't know at the time. And you know, I think we we see that a lot with our clients that we work with. They're like, you know, my dogs are aggressive with each other. And really, it's just, you know, the older dog setting boundaries and you know, correcting the young puppy. And it's not your adult dog's job to raise the puppy. That's definitely your job. But when I got Minka, I so I had Zoe Lucy Minka, and you know, things were good, but I was kind of raising Minka like a golden retriever and not really giving her a Malinois outlet. And then when I got Muffin, Minka opened up so much, you know, and I really I was like, oh my gosh, like I felt so bad that she was just you could tell she had all of these like Malinois feelings, but she didn't know what to do with them. She was just kind of like this little misfit of like, I don't have all these big yeah, I have all these big feelings, and like the golden retrievers don't play the same way. And so seeing Minka and Muffin like grab each other's throats and throw each other on the ground, and it's literally the best thing ever for them. And even seeing Muffin and Zoe play, you know, Zoe is like she's my old lady, but she's still doing so well. She has so much energy, and her and Muffin will go and wrestle. And Muffin is super gentle with Zoe and they play really nicely. And even Toma's dog, Walter, Walter wouldn't play with anybody. No, he would not play with any dogs at all. And Muffin, like, they love each other. Him and Muffin play all the time. And I'm like, see, like that's what I love about having a group of dogs, is they read each other and they kind of bring out like the best in each other if you pick the right dog. Yeah. So Muffin for me, obviously, she's my youngest. She just hit a year old like a month ago. Um, so she's still very young, but I really liked her temperament whenever I went to go look at her. She was very confident and playful. And even as a six-week-old puppy, she was like play bowing and like rolling around. And I was like, okay, yeah, I definitely want her. And that's how she is with all of the new dogs that come in. And she's very, she's not necessarily super submissive, but she, if a dog is like nervous of meeting her, she will like roll over, you know, and she'll like play Bao. And she's really good at reading other dogs and playing how they want to play. She has been a little bit intense recently, but I think that's just because she's probably going into heat soon. So I don't know that that's always gonna be like that. But Muffin fits very nicely into my pack. So what I'm looking for in a dog is I'm looking for a not super forward dog, not necessarily like the most playful, but kind of a dog that's very similar to Zoe. And Zoe's kind of like eeure, like a little dopey, you know. Yeah, exactly. And so there was also two females that were very much like muffin. And my tendency as a dog trainer is like, oh, I really want the like little crazy drivey. And when we say drivey, we're we're looking at how playful they are, and like they're just kind of jumping around and roughhousing with the other puppies, and being a little more dominant, I would say, like a little more pushy, yeah. Pushy, they kind of like pin the other puppies down, like they're very forward, whereas the puppy that I picked out is like napping the whole time, you know, and he's just like kind of moping around. But it's very different than the puppy that you are looking at.

SPEAKER_04 27:02

Yes. Um, the puppy that I was looking at, how would we describe her? I feel like she was I feel like she was a good balance of it all. I did hear she's a screamer, she's very vocal. She's very vocal. She gave a couple little growls. Yeah. Which were playful.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

But I think all of the puppies were very confident.

SPEAKER_04 27:28

They were all very confident. This was a good litter, a good litter of rescue puppies. They also didn't see a day in the shelter. So they don't know that. And the mom is, I wonder how long the mom was even there.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

Probably not very long.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Probably not very long.

SPEAKER_01 27:49

So the mom was what the mom was found brought into the shelter. She already pregnant.

SPEAKER_04 27:57

And then they were going to open her up for a spay abort like the next morning. And this lady originally wasn't able to take her. The lady who runs the rescue, and then ended up just making it happen because she didn't want the puppies to be aborted. It's so weird talking about dog abortions. I know. It's such a weird I know.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

I was like thinking about that as we were looking at all the videos of like cuddling them, and I was like, oh, they almost didn't get all of that.

unknown 28:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:27

You know? Yeah. And I get it. There are so many dogs out there, but I definitely have a soft spot for it because I love Muffin very much, and she was almost unalived.

SPEAKER_04 28:40

Yeah. And these are like, I guess it might be maybe it's too early to say, but these are great dogs, puppies that could become great dogs. I understand that's not the case for all of them, but this mom definitely was like working on a field. She was definitely a working cattle dog, probably in the area, and got pregnant by another cattle dog, which is crazy. Which is actually crazy. Yeah. They're purebred. Yeah. So I think that the puppies overall, they were all very confident. There were a couple more dry V out of the group. Um I wouldn't say my girl is the most dry V.

SPEAKER_01 29:25

No, I don't think so. I guess let's kind of explain like what exactly we're looking for so that you guys can kind of do some of those tests whenever you are going and looking at dogs.

SPEAKER_04 29:41

As far as the drivey ones go, if I was looking to put this dog, if I was looking to take her to herding classes on a regular basis or put her in some sort of sport, the drive-iness that I'm looking for is kind of like you said, like going after the other dogs in a more playful manner, jumping around. They're a little bit more independent, they're kind of over there playing with the toys by themselves when all the other puppies are over here sleeping. If a sound, if everyone's sleeping and a sound, there's a new sound, they're usually the first up to kind of go check it out. And they're not doing that in an alert way, but they are very curious and interested in everything that's going on all the time. Those are kind of more drivey dogs of the litter. Versus the one that you picked, Stoney. And I would say my girl, the girl that I picked, Pearl, is kind of similar-ish, but Stony is definitely the derpiest one. Yeah. He's the biggest one, but he hadn't he was kind of being bullied by everyone. And he was loved it though. Like he had no problem with it. He had no problem with all of his little siblings running around and jumping on him and pulling on his ears and his tail, and he just kind of let it happen until he had enough. And then he set firm boundaries. And then it was done. And then it was done. And he didn't hold a grudge. It's not like he like pinned the dog down for a long period of time. So those are kind of what we're looking at when we are assessing an entire litter to pick the right dog. It's not that the drivey dogs are bad or you're wrong for wanting that dog. It's just about knowing what you're getting. So, like one of the couples that wants one of the drivey dogs, they're an older couple, but they live in a motor home and they travel across the country and they go to national parks all the time. And they have experience with the breed. They've had two Queensland healers. Is that the breed? Is that what it's called?

SPEAKER_00 31:55

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_04 31:56

Okay, two healers they've had. And now they don't have any dogs, and they are ready for a spunky adventure dog. So one of these dogs, spicier dogs, could be perfect for them. Cause she's a little more independent. She can hang out in the motorhome by herself while everyone's driving, whatever. And then she can go rip around a national park.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Yeah. And she's also more independent. And she would be a single dog for a bit, right?

SPEAKER_04 32:28

Yeah, they would want a second dog eventually, but which I think I could see that being a problem down the line. But yeah, I think for the time being, they're also older. They might change their mind about getting another puppy down the line. But originally, when I heard about this couple, I was like, I don't know. I don't know if this would be the best dog because they're gonna want their dog off-leash, running around, being social with people and dogs, and that might not be the best fit for her. But then the more we kind of watched her, and she was the only one that went and hid whenever the loud sounds happened. So as we kind of started to watch her personality come out more, I think she'd be a great fit for that type of lifestyle. I don't think she'd be a good fit for sitting in the house all day and getting a walk around the neighborhood or going and living in a city, which is kind of what the other families lined up are for.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Yeah. So there was another dog there that I told the lady who runs the rescue. I was like, I would consider that dog like the pick of the litter, just because she seemed very stable. She was very people focused. So she would come and she would just sit in front of you and look up at you, you know, and she wasn't necessarily rough housing all the time. She wasn't trying to pick fights with the other puppies. She was just kind of minding her business, walking around, being just like a cute little puppy. And so I told, I told her, like, hey, I think that should be the puppy that goes to the home with kids because that that puppy seems pretty bulletproof. You know, just from the hour and a half that we spent here, I think that is kind of your pick of the litter. Like she seems like a really solid, stable dog, very similar to the mom, I would say.

SPEAKER_04 34:23

Very similar to the mom. The mom definitely seems like a dog that you could just put in any situation and she'd be fine. Yeah. Which is also crazy for a working cattle dog.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Yeah. I guess we don't know that she was working, but well, she looks she doesn't look like a show line cattle dog.

Picking Without A Litter And Shelter Reality

SPEAKER_04 34:44

She doesn't have like the freckles or anything. She's very, she's not very spotted. She looks like an old school cattle dog. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

So let's say that they are not going and meeting an entire litter of puppies. How would you decide to pick a puppy based off of just seeing, let's say, one dog at a time, or even going to a shelter and getting a dog?

SPEAKER_04 35:13

Okay, two different answers here. If you couldn't go see a whole litter, I would, and one thing I really liked about this rescue is she wants to place the puppies based off of personality and lifestyle. And she's already denied people puppies because she just didn't think it'd be the right fit. She didn't think that for whatever reason, she didn't think it was going to be a good fit for an Australian cattle dog. She clearly has experience with the breed. So I think if I couldn't see all the puppies, I would ask the rescue or the breeder detailed information. And a good breeder typically doesn't let you pick your puppy. They pick your puppy for you. That's how you know if you're going through like a solid ethical breeder, because their biggest priority is the success of this dog staying in this home. And you know, it's their name attached to the dog and it's continuing the legacy that they're trying to build about these dogs. So rescue can be a little bit different because I find a lot of people are well intended, but they maybe like myself once upon a time, but they maybe don't know the best fit for some of these dogs. If I was to go to a shelter, oh, it's so hard. If I was to go to a shelter, they're all sick. You can't really get a judgment of a dog in a shelter. They're all sick in every shelter. Like same thing in Oklahoma. When I when we got our my childhood dog, I remember she was so sick with kennel cough, and we took her back to the shelter to be seen by their vet. And they just looked at us and said, Do you want to just put her down and we and you can pick a new one? Because that's how disposable that they just have so many dogs. So that's I understand that's how they have to look at it, but it's really hard to assess. I think you just have to be prepared for this dog to be very different once their antibiotics are done. But as far as directly picking one from a shelter, I would ask if you have a trainer to come with you or somebody who has handled a lot of dogs, if you have a rescue friend to come with you, that's not just bleeding heart rescue. I think that there's, you know, one thing that this rescue was saying is she got into this because she was bleeding heart rescue and thought she could just love a dog into whatever behavior and lifestyle. And she understands now, which a lot of us have that come to Jesus moment in a very hard way, that that's just not the case. And you really do have to start learning more about dog behavior because once these dogs settle in from the shelter, they can be very different.

Breed Fit For Kids Cities Liability

SPEAKER_01 38:25

Yeah. And I think too, before we even go to look at the dogs, it's so important to have that checklist of who am I? How many hours in a day do I have to dedicate? Am I active? Like you have to get so honest with yourself about who you are and where you're at in your life, and if you're capable of taking on a dog. And, you know, I had one of um Steve, Steve in Zuma, he came to class today and he was talking to me about this. And he was like, Meg, you need to do, you need to do a podcast episode on this, you know, talking about making sure that people understand what it takes to get a puppy and you know, finding a dog that fits your lifestyle because people are getting these dogs and then they're upset when they're acting like a dog and they have to re-home them. And I was like, yes, I completely agree with you, but unfortunately, a lot of people that are listening to my podcast have already got the dog. You've already got the dog, and you know, you're here because you're probably in over your head, let's say, you know, because you didn't really think about your lifestyle and the breed that you were getting, and you know, all of all of those factors that we've kind of talked about with us, you know, is this dog gonna fit with my lifestyle? Is this dog gonna fit into my home with my other dogs or even kids? Right. You know, that was a conversation that we had with the the lady who runs the rescue, is she's like, you know, cattle dogs aren't really great in households with kids.

SPEAKER_04 40:13

And it's something to consider. Like, I want to foster kids someday. Maybe I want to have kids someday. So thinking about I know that I'll be fine and I'll be able to handle it. Um, but I'm taking this cattle dog who mom probably came from a ranch, wants to herd cattle, and I'm taking this dog into West Hollywood where there are not a lot of parks that I can really take her to on a daily basis that she can get a ton of off-leash fulfillment where she's not going to be rushed by other dogs. So I know what I'm signing up for. I don't think cattle dogs particularly belong in cities, but I'm also training for a marathon. So once she gets to a certain age and she can keep up with running, I'll be taking her for runs. I'm gonna live a very active life for her. And I've already, we've already talked about taking our puppies to go sheep herding every so often. It's not gonna be a regular thing, it's like two hours away. But from time to time, we'll take them out to fulfill them in that way. And that really does kind of how I set up her life when she gets home is what she's going to get used to very quickly. Maybe I'm wrong. I guess we'll find out. What do I know?

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Yeah. Well, I think also, too, you know, Toma is in the process of kind of looking for a puppy and looking for a dog. But what is Toma looking for? He is looking for a high-level sport dog. Right. And he will not get anything less than that. And he actually got a puppy and then very quickly realized, oh, this is not my puppy because it does not meet these criteria. And so for Toma, the criteria is is this puppy gonna play with a toy right away?

unknown 42:12

Right.

Raising Purpose Built Dogs Pet Or Sport

SPEAKER_01 42:12

You know, and luckily we're around people who, you know, we have Shane and we have Oscar who are like, hey, that's not, that's not the puppy for you. Like, you pretty much know right away if the if the puppy's gonna work, right? And I was kind of thinking about that today. I was like, oh, we should have brought like like she had a little flirt poll, and I was kind of playing around with the toys a little bit, but I was like, I'm not getting this cattle dog to do that. You know, and we kind of joked about like, oh, should I get a cattle dog and do bite work? I've already got two dogs that do that. This is not the purpose of this dog. Like, I want this dog to be a social dog with my dogs, a dog that can just be, you know, a regular demo dog for me as a dog trainer, a dog that's stable, that I can hand off to somebody. We were talking about Muffin, how we've basically gaslit Muffin into believing that she's like this badass dog, but like she's not, you know, and and we're like, oh, will we allow some of the behaviors that I've allowed Muffin to do? For example, I don't necessarily correct her for biting at the leash, because that's part of the gaslighting process of like, yeah, you're this badass little dog, even though she's not, she's just like a little backyard bread malinois, you know, and that I've like made to believe she's like this really intense sport dog. But if I were to correct her for biting at the leash and correct her for barking in the crate and be a little more strict with her, like we are with a lot of our pet dogs, I wouldn't have all of this like drive for her in the sport. And so I That going into it, I had this checklist of like, okay, I'm getting muffin. And from what I can see, at six weeks, I think she's capable of doing this sport with me. And so because of that, I'm going to structure our life in this way, you know. And so I have this little checklist for this puppy of like, I want you to be a good little demo dog. I want you to be social. So we're going to take him out everywhere and expose him to people and other dogs. Like, I want him to be as bomb-proof as possible, but I don't necessarily need you to be this like little unhinged like raptor. Yeah. Kind of like how I've raised Muffin. Yeah. Basically.

SPEAKER_04 44:44

And for me, like if the dog likes to bite and wants to do some fun little tug games, that's great. I love that. I love that engagement. That's kind of like how Makai was. Yeah. The staffy that I fostered. And he like, it's just fun for him, but he doesn't have drive to go for a long time. No, his sessions are like two minutes long. He can't breathe very well.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

But you know that he would never be this like crazy high-level sport dog. Just like a fun dog that you can train.

SPEAKER_04 45:18

Just fun. And for me, I mean, we all know I'm not that into the sports, but that's just something that's fun. I think it's just a fun thing to do to build a dog's confidence and build their bond. And that's not unfortunately, that's not the first style of training.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

It's also not like your priority.

SPEAKER_04 45:40

It's not my priority, but I would like it. I wish it would have been more of a priority to me when kind of training my own dogs. So I'll probably try to make that a little bit more of a priority with this puppy, but just for the engagement factor of it and for the fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:01

Did our air conditioning turn off? I hope.

SPEAKER_04 46:03

Will you go look at that?

SPEAKER_01 46:05

It is so hot in this hotel room.

SPEAKER_04 46:10

I don't know if it just thinks it's at 60 degrees already.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

There's no way.

unknown 46:14

It's not off.

SPEAKER_00 46:16

It's blowing?

SPEAKER_04 46:17

No, it's off. It is off.

SPEAKER_01 46:20

It turned off.

SPEAKER_04 46:23

Like it this thing thinks that it is 60 degrees in here.

SPEAKER_01 46:27

Maybe move the table. We're gonna die. We're gonna die in this hotel room tonight. That's probably why. It thinks that the air is on. Whatever the sensor is. Me and Cassidy are literally gonna sleep with the hotel door open.

unknown 46:55

It's perfect.

SPEAKER_04 46:56

Super safe. Super safe. No dogs allowed in here.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Okay, what other tips would we give people for?

SPEAKER_04 47:10

Turn it back on, thank god. I just think what tips would I give?

SPEAKER_01 47:15

For picking a puppy.

SPEAKER_04 47:16

For picking a puppy.

SPEAKER_01 47:17

Let's talk about breed.

SPEAKER_04 47:19

Okay, wait, the flirt pole thing though. I forgot what I'm gonna say. I think a lot of them were kind of in like a little into it, but nothing too crazy.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

Yeah. Like they would chase, and they were like following you around and they were like chasing the flirt pole thing, but they weren't like they weren't like fixated, yeah, and obsessed.

SPEAKER_04 47:40

And I see a lot of granted, I don't know a lot about sports, so I really shouldn't even open my mouth, but I see a lot of sport breeders encouraging like a lot of intensity very young.

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Yeah, but that's like what you want.

SPEAKER_04 47:54

That's what you want, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Yeah, for sure. And you want a dog that's like committing to like biting.

SPEAKER_04 48:02

Which I I think is great. I think the issue is when average people see that stuff and think that they want that, and that's where it gets potentially dangerous down the line.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Yeah. I mean, you guys do not really see me do I don't post bite work stuff intentionally.

unknown 48:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:24

That's like a very intentional thing for me because I still feel kind of weird about uh promoting that, I guess, in some way. I think that a lot of the sporty dogs, the Malinois, I think that there are a huge liability, and I don't want people to be like, oh my god, that's so cool. I'm gonna go get a dog, and then they go and get some gnarly Dutch Shepherd that redirects on them.

SPEAKER_04 48:52

Yes, that's that's pretty much exactly all I had to say was I think it's just like you said, a huge liability to the average person who doesn't know anything about dogs and can't like I look at some of these people who want these dogs, and I'm like, I can't even get you to put your dog in a crate. The current dog you currently have, and you want to go get this super drivey, super sporty dog, and you have no idea what that is.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

Yeah, and I think that is also kind of going into the breed thing. If you know who you are, you know what kind of dog you're able to handle, and you need to be realistic about that. And when I did the podcast with Oscar, we kind of talked about this because he was like, your lesson in all of this is realizing that malinois are not this, and he was like pointing to Zoe, you know, and he was like, You are learning that these dogs are very different from those dogs, and I was like, Oh, yeah, for sure. Like, I you have to think differently with a Malinois than you do with a golden retriever. Like, what's the worst thing that's gonna happen with a golden is like they jump on somebody, you know? But cattle dogs and malinois and corsos and pit bulls, Dobermans, they have a tendency and kind of like default setting to bite, unfortunately, you know. And so, like, we need to be very realistic about who we are and if we're capable of handling these types of dogs before we ever go and get a puppy and bring these dogs into our life. Like, you have to know, like you know yourself. You don't want a Malinois, you don't want to, you don't want to get into that world because you're like, I don't want to have to be super hard on my dog.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

No, no, I'm kind of a dog dog mommy, yeah. You're pretty soft, pretty soft, but I think that's okay.

SPEAKER_04 50:57

But my dogs don't require me being super stern and hard, and you know that about yourself, yeah. And if I have a dog that needs that, I can be that, but I don't like it.

SPEAKER_01 51:12

And you're not gonna go out of your way to get a dog that's like that, that will require that of me.

SPEAKER_04 51:17

No, I don't want a dog that makes me yeah, make puts me in that energy, that energetic field trying to stay in my feminine over here, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

So I think you know, with everything, I talk to my virtual shadow students about this all the time. Get really clear on what you want your days to look like. You know, are you the type of person that wants to wake up super early and go for a long walk or a jog? Amazing. You can get these more active dogs. You know, do you work 12 hours a day in an office out of your home, away from home? Maybe don't get a puppy at all. Maybe get an older dog.

SPEAKER_04 52:11

Old dogs are so underrated. There's so many. When people come to me and they they thought they wanted a puppy, and I look at them and I just say, You want an old dog. You wanted an old dog, you didn't want to potty train this dog, you didn't want to crate train this dog, you didn't want to leash train this dog, you wanted a couch potato. You should have gone and adopted. There's plenty of couch potatoes in the shelter.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

And I think that's like the whole reason why we even have jobs is that misfit of person and the type of dog that they have, you know, because a lot of times, a lot of the dogs aren't bad. You know, like I recently got a phone call with somebody whose dog like nipped their child, and it's like that dog's not bad. That dog just is not necessarily the fit for this household. And it's tough. It's tough as a trainer to be like, yeah, you know, we have to set boundaries and we have to do all of these things. Whereas you might not have to do that if that dog was a golden retriever, you know, because golden retrievers are a little bit more tolerant of, you know, children. And I'm just kind of like generally speaking here, but you know, some breeds of dogs are more tolerant of certain behaviors and kids and you know, things in their space than other dogs are, you know, so like if you have kids, you need to consider that. And we kind of like got a little general here, but also kind of like wrapping it back to temperament. Like you we you have a Doberman that we walked today that was like the chillest Doberman, but that dog still got re-homed.

SPEAKER_04 53:54

He did, yeah. He got rehomed because he was just too much for this couple, and he's an angel, he's literally an angel, sol socially solid.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

He's like the easiest Doberman I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_04 54:06

I know he's an angel, and I think even with him though, like with any dog, and maybe this is just the dog trainer in me, I am always assessing what is the worst case scenario. I still he's so friendly with people. I don't love letting him run up to people because what is the worst case scenario? If this person acts weird or is really nervous of him, and he there's always a first bite. There is always a my dog has never done that before, and then it happens, and then we get called, and I I think it's just so important when you're working with these really strong breeds. When my friend wanted to get this Doberman from a rehoming situation, I looked at my friend, I looked at his lifestyle, and I said, You do not want a Doberman. But he kept sending me these videos of this dog, and through the videos, I was able to kind of assess his demeanor, and he seemed just very soft. So it ended up working out, and my friend thinks he's a lot, he thinks that there is a lot of dog for him, which is so funny because I look at him and I just say, This is nothing, this is the easiest dog I've ever had in my house. But it just goes back to temperament, and you don't have to really worry about what is the worst case scenario as much when my, and this is generalizing, but if Zoe runs up to someone versus even my dogs, Dexter's like barely a pit bull, but Lana's pretty pity or this cattle dog puppy. What is the worst case scenario if this cattle dog runs up and nips somebody? That's a huge liability. So I think being mindful of the breed you have and the lifestyle you live when assessing their temperaments is so important when picking a puppy.

SPEAKER_01 56:13

Also, something that's not really talked about is are you able to afford training? You know? Are you able to do Yeah? No, I couldn't. That's literally why I became a dog trainer.

SPEAKER_04 56:26

I could not afford training when I was having all of these. I mean, I yeah, crazy rescue dogs in my house, but I looked up everything I could possibly online and I just got to work. And I think that's a very classic dog training story.

SPEAKER_01 56:46

Yeah, for sure. But thinking about do I have the resources, do I have the time, do I have the money? You know, a Malinois, a German Shepherd, Doberman, if you want to do biological fulfillment with them and train them and play tug with them or do any sort of sports with them. Sports require money, they require hiring a trainer, you know.

SPEAKER_04 57:12

I think this like sheep herding stuff that we want to do, I think it's like a hundred bucks to let your dog go out and chase the sheep.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

Oh, for sure. It's not cheap.

SPEAKER_04 57:19

It's not cheap. And if your dog kills the sheep, you have to buy it. Which is so wild. That's so I don't know how much that costs, but I can't imagine it's cheap. And then you're just what driving home with a dead sheep in the back of your car?

SPEAKER_01 57:35

Oh, that's so morbid.

SPEAKER_04 57:38

Yeah, so I think more of the story: don't get a cattle dog puppy.

SPEAKER_01 57:44

But we will just get really clear on who you are and the role that you want the dog to fill before you just go out and get the dog, and you have to be able to kind of walk away. But I think the issue is when people are like, the dog chose me, you know.

SPEAKER_04 58:06

Puppy ran up to me and he didn't want to leave my side. Yeah, that's an anxious dog, yeah.

Non Negotiables And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_01 58:12

But they have, you know, kids or you know, all of this stuff, and they didn't take a moment to think about their lifestyle and how this dog is going to fit into that, you know. So that's kind of our our dog trainer spiel is get really clear on your stuff first, your checklist first. Ask yourself, why am I getting this dog? Why do I want a puppy? And then go from there. Because the reason why we have jobs.

SPEAKER_04 58:49

I would love to be unemployed at this point. I would love for you guys to not need dog training advice anymore.

SPEAKER_01 58:55

Yeah. The reason we have jobs is really just kind of this misalignment of dogs and owners. So we can prevent a ton of problems from happening, save you a ton of money in dog training and liability. If lawsuits, lawsuits if you get very clear on who you are and the role that you want your puppy or dog to fill. You got anything else to add?

SPEAKER_00 59:31

No, I think that's everything. I think that's everything. Alright, guys. Thanks so much for being here, and we'll see you next week.