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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
From Rock Climbing Rope To Dog Leashes
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A stray dog follows Charles and his wife back to their tent in a climbing canyon in Mexico, and three nights later they make a promise that changes everything: they are not going home without him. What comes next is part rescue story, part entrepreneurship story, and part hard-earned lesson in what dogs actually need. Charles, the owner of Mountain Dog Products, joins me to share how a handmade leash built from climbing rope and a carabiner turned into a full business built on upcycled materials and domestic manufacturing in Phoenix.
We get into the behind-the-scenes of building a product brand the unglamorous operations, customization for trainers, and why collaboration and good leadership matter more than hype. Then we shift into dog ownership, where Charles opens up about Jefe, the reactive rescue dog he loved deeply but didn’t know how to handle. We talk boundaries, exercise, crate training, and why “structure equals freedom” is not a slogan, it is the reason some dogs get to live bigger, safer lives.
We also tackle the big topics people avoid: breed traits, genetics, ethical breeders, backyard breeding, and how rescue placement can go wrong when temperament is ignored. If you have ever felt overwhelmed by a high-drive dog, confused by conflicting dog training content online, or unsure how to pick the right dog for your lifestyle, this conversation will help you think clearly and choose intentionally. If you enjoyed it, subscribe, share it with a dog person who needs to hear it, and leave a review so more owners can find the show.
Visit us on the website here to see what we've got going on and how you can join our pack of good dogs and owners.
Hello, hello, and welcome back to the Everyday Trainer Podcast. My name is Meg, and I am a dog trainer. Today's episode, we are joined by Charles, who is the owner of Mountain Dog Products. He is the manufacturer of our leashes. So we're gonna talk about his story into starting his business and also his experience with rescues. You know the drill? Grab yourself a tasty drink and meet us back here.
SPEAKER_00Welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_02Thanks for coming out. So you are coming all the way from Arizona.
SPEAKER_00Yes, Phoenix.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So tell us a little bit about yourself and how you how you got here.
SPEAKER_00Wow. Um, so uh Mountain Dog has been in business since 2009. And prior to Mountain Dog, I had a corporate job and uh did manufacturing. And that was sort of my passion was domestic manufacturing, American manufacturing. And I had worked in uh corporate America with primarily large manufacturing companies and uh had a great career, really enjoyed what I did until I got laid off. And my wife and I were I was a little frustrated about being laid off and didn't really want to start looking for another job. So my wife and I packed up and we went rock climbing down in Mexico. And I we're rock climbers, and we uh flew down and spent a month climbing at El Portrero Chico. Anyone who's a climber knows about El Potrero. And uh so while we were down there, there are all these stray dogs that run around the Portrero, run around the canyon. And one of the dogs ended up staying with us and following us around and was sleeping in front of our tent at night. And about the third night that we woke up with the dog in front of our tent, my wife looks at me and says, Hey, I'm not going home without the dog. So uh you need to make that happen. So uh, and that was sort of the beginning of Mountain Dog. So at that point, the dog's name, Jefe. Uh, we had to keep Jefe around to make sure that Jefe didn't run off before we left. So I made a leash out of one of my climbing ropes and took an old carabiner and a leash and made a climbing, uh, made a rope, a leash out of the climbing rope. And um we ended up bringing Jefe back to the States, and I kept the leash because it was sentimental. You know, this is what you made. And uh people at the dog park started looking at the leash and saying, that's a cool leash. Where'd you get that? And I was thinking, hmm, maybe there's a business idea here. And I was interviewing for jobs and I really wasn't finding anything that I liked. And this is 2009, at the beginning of the great recession, and you know, the economy was dead. And I said, you know what? Maybe I'm just gonna sit out of the uh the corporate world for a year. I'll start this business, and if nothing else, it'll be a good filler on my resume. And my idea was maybe I'll start this, it'll sort of be a home-based business, and then I'll go back to corporate America and run this somehow in my spare time. And uh after about six months of doing this, I got a call from a friend that had a job and said, Hey, you want to come back and do this? And it was a job that I actually really would have wanted six months ago. And I was like, nah, I'm good.
SPEAKER_02You're like, no, I actually don't.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and so from that point forward it was just been mountain dog. So uh nice.
SPEAKER_02And how old were you then?
SPEAKER_00Uh oh, come on. I think I was 42 at the time.
SPEAKER_02Okay. No, but I mean, I think that's important for people to know because I think a lot of times we think that we're late to the game, you know? Yeah. In people who people who want to become entrepreneurs, like, oh no, I'm past that. I can't do that.
SPEAKER_00No, I think you can become an entrepreneur at any age. I think what Colonel Sanders started uh Kentucky Fried Chicken in his 60s or 70s. I mean, there's a lot of people that do that. And I think uh having gone to business school, in the back of my mind, there was always this idea, oh, someday I'll start my own company. And you know, you always, at least with the people I went to school with, you kind of sit down and talk about, oh, I'd like to do this. And you know, one day, one day, you know, we'll start the next Google or Facebook or you know, Hewlett Packard or whatever. And uh, you know, when I made the decision to start Mountain Dog, it really was I it seemed like a logical step for me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about Mountain Dog.
How Mountain Dog Makes Leashes
SPEAKER_00So Mountain Dog is a company that makes leashes from upcycled climbing rope. So we started off. Uh I talked to a number of different rope manufacturers and uh started buying their remnants. And uh actually started with one uh one rope manufacturer, Sterling Rope. They were the first one that talked to me and worked with me, and I would get all of their remnants. And uh at the same time, I was also going around the southeast, uh going to climbing gyms, and I would uh talk with uh different guide services and get their used ropes, and uh uh I'd cut them to length and then I'd go to a big industrial laundromat and you know, wash everything. And uh eventually we really outgrew that. And now we purchase remnants from a number of different manufacturers, and we get all of these remnant ropes and we turn them into uh into dog leashes. And uh we've got a manufacturing facility in Phoenix, that's where we live now. And uh it's my wife, Stephanie, my business partner Kyle, and uh his wife works in the business, and we've got around it depends on the week, but usually around between 10 and 15 people that work there, and we build leashes in-house. So we don't uh outsource our manufacturing, we don't purchase stuff from uh you know, from somewhere else and then import it and put a label on it. We're actually building dog leashes. And so people like you come to us trainers and say, hey, I want 10-foot leashes, I want 12-foot leashes, I want leashes with a clip on the handle, I want a ring here, I want something. We're able to configure products for whoever, you know, and whatever configuration that people can come up with. So for, you know, we're domestic manufacturing. That was a, you know, that was my passion before I started Mountain Dog, and I love dogs, so it was able to put together my domestic manufacturing passion and my passion for dogs, and I've got a good company.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I was gonna say, what did you learn from your previous job that has kind of led you to your success now?
SPEAKER_00Oh wow. I mean, so after getting out of business school, I was hired by uh a man, Chris, if you're listening to this, Chris Vasiloff. And Chris was a great boss. Uh he was uh, anyways, he taught me a lot about how to run a business, about uh how to look at strategy as a whole for a business. Uh, had a couple of other great bosses, Dave Rolls, um, who was just a Phil Gaffney, and both taught me different things about manufacturing, about strategy, about finances, and how to really look at a business. So I had a great background and a great set of mentors that really helped me to set me up for success and gave me early on in my career uh a lot of runway and a lot of freedom to try things and to fail and to you know, to learn from those failures and to never put me in a situation that was gonna really, you know, that was gonna destroy my career, but gave me a chance to really learn and to to figure out things on my own. So I was really fortunate. My corporate experience was amazing up until it wasn't. But uh, but yeah, so I mean, I think just the the overall being at a high level working in a in corporate America and then being, I mean, I had a a six-month stint where I worked in a small startup factory. And I, you know, at night I'd uh I'd do all the planning for the raw materials that would come through there, and then during the day I would drive a forklift and put stuff on the factory line. And it was uh, I mean, that was kind of one of those things like I I I didn't necessarily want to work in the factory for the rest of my life, but it was like I get how all this worked. I get to see all the pieces of everything I've learned in school and everything I did coming together, and that that was a great experience when I work for uh when I worked for Phil Gaffney. He was just really so anyways, I was really fortunate. I had good mentors. It gave me a great perspective on how to run a business.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I remember when I first started selling the leashes online, I was like, oh my gosh, Charles, what am I doing? What's a skew? I have no idea. I was like, this is a lot, this is a lot to have to learn and do, you know, and I think you've done it for a while now. So the things that I'm like stressing over, you're like, yeah, second nature, we've been doing this for a while.
SPEAKER_00I think you can always figure stuff out. I think, you know, that's I think that's another thing corporate America taught me is if there's a problem, you just need to step back, figure out how to solve it and how to move forward. And uh also collaboration. That was a big part of my career in corporate America, was not just working by yourself and doing things. It was how to collaborate and get a team to come together, make sure that everyone's on the same page, everyone's focused on an outcome, and that every, you know, if there are people that work for you, you're empowering them. If there's people above you that you're making sure that they're informed and knowing what to do. And so I think that's I think when you're running a business, that's a big part of it is making sure that everyone's kind of pulling together and working together. I've been really fortunate that I've got great people that I work with.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So that kind of taught you like the people side of the business.
SPEAKER_00It's that's everything. I mean, it's it I think you can learn a lot from a book and all of that stuff's important. And I mean, if you run out of money, if you don't have product, if you don't know how to set up a manufacturing facility, all those things are important, but it's the collaboration that's what really makes everything work. And any successful company you see, you know, the people and the the team that's working together is really what makes that business successful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And how do you bring that into Mountain Dog now?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I think you teach people, I I hope I do this. Uh, you'd have to ask the people that work for me. But uh, but I think that you teach people what you want done and you give them the opportunity to do it. And you make sure that they understand what the expectations you are, you provide them with the tools to succeed, and if they're not doing it, then you work together to figure out why it's not happening and you just come together. And I think you treat people with respect and kindness. That goes a really long way. I think that sometimes you see this, you know, the kind of typical retail where the the the boss is mean and the people hate the boss. And I think in, you know, you don't do that. You find people that want to work and you treat them well and you support them, and I think it's it becomes a real collaborative and positive experience.
SPEAKER_02That's beautiful, Charles.
SPEAKER_00Well, it it sounds like such a cliche, but it really it really is true. It's those everyday things. You say please, you say thank you, you treat the people with r that work with you with respect, and you make sure that they treat each other with respect and everything's good. I mean, I'm I'm really fortunate the people that work for me, and I think the again, the someone's probably, you know, one of my employees is listening to this and like, man, Charles is really late on my day.
SPEAKER_01But I hope not.
Rescuing Jefe From Mexico
SPEAKER_02We'll we'll interview them next. They'll be next. Um, so how was the shift going from being in the corporate business world to now you're in the dog industry? There you go.
SPEAKER_00So the so uh the part of the business I was in was construction equipment. And that was, I mean, that's kind of a a very, you know, tough masculine community, and it's it's really great. Whereas the uh the dog business, there's uh almost, I would say the majority of the people that I work with in trainers are are women. So there was that shift. Um and I think that there's uh, you know, I think that a lot of trainers and people that I get to work with are probably really, really good at training and dogs, but don't understand the business side of it as much. And so that was kind of a shift working with people that you know weren't as experienced. And then there was also from a professional perspective, going from an environment where I was not the smartest person in the room, where I always had people that I could that were gonna backstop me, that were gonna tell me when I was doing something stupid, that were going to help me when I made a mistake, to working for myself where, you know, there's no- You're like, oh shit. Yeah, no one, no one's going to explain it to you. And being an entrepreneur in a business where the only people that really understand what I'm doing for the most part are my competitors and they're not gonna help you. So it's how do you kind of bridge that gap from going from this really collaborative environment where there's a lot of people that have a lot more experience than you and can help you to, you know, fill in the gaps to a place where you're the only one and you've got to fill in your own gaps, or you've got to, you know, talk to someone and explain to them what the issue is and explain your business. And that's a hard part too, because no one really understands your business except for you. So from you know, a business standpoint, it's it's it's a big change. I think the longer I've been in this, the more I found other entrepreneurs, and you can develop that sort of network, but it's not as readily available as it was when you're you're in a larger organization.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. That's something that Tori and I, because we have trainers collective, we see all the time. And like that's why we started that business is because a lot of dog trainers are really good with dogs, and not a lot of them are good at business, and they really struggle with that side of things. And I feel like I'm very much in between. I'm not necessarily like the best dog trainer in the world, and I'm not necessarily the best business person in the world, but I have my hands in kind of both things, and I like I like being in that in between. Um but what let's kind of get into dog ownership. So you got your first dog, Jefe.
SPEAKER_00Jefe, yes.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So tell us a little bit more about Jefe and the journey with him and rescuing a dog from Mexico.
SPEAKER_00So rescuing the dog from Mexico was that so we when my wife said you need to bring the dog home, you need to find a way to make this happen, I emailed a buddy of mine in uh in the States and I said, Hey, I don't have great internet down here. Can you figure out what I need? And he sent me like this list of documents I needed to have filled out, and I found a veterinarian in Mexico who basically kind of filled this stuff out and said, I'm a vet in Mexico here, and gave the gave Jefe the the necessary shots. And we found a crate and we put him, he flew in the plane up there, and so we fly into Detroit. And that was Detroit, yeah. It was I so it was a weird flight. I went from Mexico to Detroit and Detroit back to Charlotte.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Anyways, so fly into Detroit, and so we pick the dog up, and I've got to take the dog through customs in the crate. So I've got all my paperwork, and you know, Steph and I have you know just come back from climbing. We look all scruffy, and you know, we're we're wheeling this dog in this crate, and we come to customs, and this guy walks up and he's like, you know, what were you doing in Mexico? I'm like, well, you know, we were rock climbing and we've adopted this dog, and here's all the paperwork. And he looks at the paperwork, looks at the dog, and he walks over, peers down at the dog in the crate, and he puts his finger through the little grate. And I in the back of my mind, I'm thinking, this is the end of Jefe's story. He's gonna take this dude's finger, and you know, that's the last we're ever gonna see of this dog. And Jefe sniffs his finger, licks it, and he doesn't even look at any of the paperwork. He's like, nice dog. Welcome back to the States, folks. Next.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00It's Steph's like, don't you want to see? I'm like, come on, Steph, let's go.
SPEAKER_02Don't ask my dog. Let's go. Just like the kid that's in class that's like, you haven't graded our homework yet.
SPEAKER_00So we we got we got Jefe back, and uh I I I fully admit, I made about every mistake that we could make with a dog. Yeah. Jefe was not the best behaved dog. He loved me, he loves my loved my wife. Uh, when we had a kid, he was okay with the kid and my parents, but pretty much everyone else he hated. Oh, no. And he was he was reactive, he was territorial, he was, you know, he was not the best dog. And I just I didn't know what I was doing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
Mistakes That Created Reactivity
SPEAKER_00And I, you know, as we as I move forward in my journey with Mountain Dog, I got to meet trainers like you, and I follow you all on Instagram. And, you know, the over the last decade, I feel like I've absorbed a lot of information on training and and from talking to people about training and learning. And uh, you know, although we didn't apply enough of that with Jefe with our new dog, we've absolutely done all the things that that you know I know I should do with, you know, the way that we train the dog, all of the the walks that we take with boundaries, with structure. And I mean, he's an absolutely a great dog. And not that Hefe wasn't. I mean, I love that dog with every fiber of my being. I mean, yeah, Jefe was was everything. I cried when he yeah, but he's he was not what you want as a dog.
SPEAKER_02So what were some things that you were doing wrong that you would change?
SPEAKER_00Uh so he slept with us every single day. He was on the bed, he was on the furniture, we didn't uh didn't walk him nearly enough. Um, you know, we we gave him people food. I mean, there were really no boundaries. I mean, he was like a spoiled child. Yeah. I mean, you know, just so I think, you know, with the current dog that we have, we've you know, we've walked them multiple times a day. We've made sure there's stimulation. We have, and I mean if I'm doing something wrong here, please correct me. But we've never let him on the furniture. We are very, you know, he has to wait to be fed. He has to sit. We put the food in the bowl, we make him sit there for a second before we release him to do that. Uh, multiple long walks a day. We work on uh, you know, every time before he goes through the door, he has to sit and wait. And he looks at us for permission to do that. Anytime we go through any type of door uh at work, all the employees have to uh pay the tax when they come in to to to work. He always comes to work with us with me. And so he'll be sitting on the factory and they've he's always the employees have to pay the tax, but he has to sit and wait, and then we say, okay, and then he'll trot over and then he'll sit and they'll start petting him. But you know, never jumps. I mean, so that's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
Structure Equals Freedom With Larry
SPEAKER_00So I mean, I think we've done a better job with Larry than we did with FA. And I think one of the benefits of that is Larry, our current dog, Larry, has a much bigger world. He's able to go places with us. I don't worry about taking him, you know, anywhere I go. If we're gonna go to, you know, we're gonna go to Flagstaff for the day and walk around and look at shops. We take Larry with us, and he's, you know, very well behaved. Whereas Hefe, I mean, I he never went anywhere because he was just not, he was a liability.
SPEAKER_02So yeah. And that's like so interesting. I was talking to somebody on the phone today and we were kind of talking about this. She was like, you know, I have friends who have dogs and they just don't really get it because she kind of has a behavioral dog, she's calling a dog trainer. Um, they don't really get it. It's nice to have trainers and other people around who get it because you're always kind of on edge when you have a behavioral dog and you have to think about like all the worst possible situations, you know. It's scary. It's exhausting. It's exhausting. That's why I like the little puppy that I got. I love him so much because he's just chilling. Like he's literally in the other room chilling. I could never do that with a Malinois. Like, if I had a Malinois and a playpen over there, they would be screaming.
SPEAKER_00Oh, and crate training. Back that, you know, that is. I mean, Larry is crate trained. He was crate trained when we got him, fortunately. But I mean, he's, you know, he sleeps in the crate every night. Yeah. It's, I mean, he he loves his crate. That's his favorite place. So, I mean, we're very that was a big part of, you know, and every time before he sits down in front of the crate, we toss a treat in there, he looks at us, then we release him, he goes in the crate and he's just happy as can be. Never never any issue with that. And it's that that was a another real important thing.
SPEAKER_02It's so important. And honestly, it's the thing that I get the most pushback for is the crate. Isn't that crazy?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's I mean, I get it, I guess, on a kind of, you know, if You're looking in from the outside and you don't understand. But I mean, uh it's it's not an issue. I I mean, and what the freedom that we have with our dog because we've done all these things and he's so well behaved is, I mean, having been on the other side of this with a poorly behaved dog, it really it makes a huge difference.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. We always say structure equals freedom, you know.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Like, especially running dogs through board and train programs. I always tell people it's not gonna have to be this strict forever, but your dog needs to understand these boundaries with you first, and then we can start to add more freedom in if that's what we want and if that's what's best for the dog. You know, some dogs, I'm like, I don't think that dog should ever be on the couch, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, so when we got Larry, he had a house leash and he had a very small area that he could be in in the house. He had his place, he had a bed, and we had a uh a small leash that was tethered out to the corner of the couch, and he had, you know, about a little 10 foot, and that was his area in the house. And we really were very strict on his walk schedule, you know, how he was introduced to the home and you know what he could and couldn't do. And like I said, the the long-term results of that have just been fantastic.
SPEAKER_02Awesome.
SPEAKER_00What kind of dog is he? He is a husky, uh what's the term? A gerbarian Shepsky. So my gosh. Okay. So he's uh he's mostly husky, part German shepherd, a little bit of cattle dog.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's a crazy mix.
SPEAKER_00He's uh yeah, and so he's mostly so personality-wise, he's very husky. Yeah, he's just happy and goofy. He's never met anyone that he didn't love. I mean, he's just he's super, super happy. Yeah, and where'd you get him from? So Sherry Lucas, Sherry, if you're listening, if you hear this, we love you. Uh, Aunt Sherry. So Sherry Lucas, for those who don't know, is trainer. And uh she also has a rescue. Oh, what is the name of her rescue? Sherry Lucas, you can look it up. Maybe you can put it in the notes on this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But uh, I was looking for a dog after hefe passed. Uh, we waited six or eight months, and I was looking for a dog, and I reached out to uh Samantha and I said, Hey, I'm looking for a dog. Do you have any suggestions? And Samantha said, Call Sherry. So I got on the phone with Sherry and uh told her what I wanted. And uh she was like, Okay, she goes, give me, let me, yeah. I said, We're not in a hurry.
SPEAKER_02I said, just you know, wait and pick pick the dog for us that matches us.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. So, and you know, had to be good with kids. We had a we have a cat, has to, you know, not want to eat the cat. And uh so she, you know, about three weeks later, she sends me a text with a picture and she's like, I found your dog. And uh so she had, you know, kind of put her feelers out and she has her her rescue. And you know, they her big thing is Husky. Sherry, if you ever look at her uh Instagram page, she's got a ton of huskies and she always has huskies. And so she found this one and she's also uh does cat rescues and she's took Larry into the her, what's it called, uh caterery. Uh she's got a big what's the term? I have no idea. It's like a it's like a big it's like a biggery? A catery, thank you. Isn't it? Yeah, I think so. It's like a big cat kennel. Yeah, big cat room. And she took Larry in there and he's kind of looked around at all the the cats and didn't go nuts, and so she's like, Yeah, he's good with cats.
SPEAKER_01Amazing, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so she uh it was kind of a weird coincidence. Her she has a relative in Phoenix and she's like, I'm gonna be in Phoenix in a couple of weeks and I'll uh I'll deliver your dog.
SPEAKER_02Oh yeah, that's awesome. Oh yeah, let's do this.
SPEAKER_00So uh so Christmas Eve, she delivered Larry to us, and so Larry was the Christmas dog.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome.
Matching Dogs To Real Life
SPEAKER_00So and so we felt really fortunate. Uh we were able to explain to Sherry what we wanted, and she was able to really to go and find a great dog for us, a dog that was really a good fit for our family. And and Larry has been. And Larry's a lot of work. I mean, don't get me wrong. Uh uh, you know, a breed like that. I mean, I we he gets multiple walks a day. We've had to be very strict with what we do. Um, I've got an electric scooter, and I every night when I get home from work, he gets between five and ten miles on the scooter, going about eight or nine miles an hour, and he just runs along next to me. He's just happy as could be. But I mean, those are I think when you have a dog, regardless of how good the dog is, you've got to put in the work. And especially with a working breed, like you said, a Malama or you know, a shepherd, a husky, whatever. Those are dogs that require work and you got to know what you're getting into. Yeah. But uh, but anyway, so Sherry was really able to find the dog for us. And I think it's so important that people really get a dog that matches what they want. And if you're, you know, whatever for whatever reason you can't put in that, you know, that type of effort to walk your dog a couple of times a day to give the dog the stimulation, then don't get a working breed. If, you know, I so when I was talking with Samantha earlier today, I mentioned uh we both kind of agreed that I think a lot of people think they want a dog. And the reality is they want a cat because having a well-behaved dog, and take it from someone who had a very poorly behaved dog, and and I own that, you know, uh my wife and I, we we own the fact that that dog was not well behaved. Yeah, that was our fault. But, you know, I think most people, if you're not willing to put in the work, what you really want is a cat.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And also, too, I love that you reached out to a trainer, you thought about your lifestyle first and told the trainer, hey, this is my lifestyle, this is what I want out of a dog, and she fit the dog with you. And that is a route that I feel not enough people take. Like uh, we get a bunch of puppies in for training, and we're getting crazy breeds. And me and Toma are looking at each other like, oh my gosh, this person is about to go through two years of hell because they just got this neighbor dog, you know, or just got this puppy from the shelter. And I wish they would have either gotten a trained dog from a trainer, you know, or at least spoken to a trainer beforehand and said, like, hey, this is what I want. And I also think it brings a lot of intentionality into getting a dog instead of just impulsively getting a dog because it's cute or because, you know, your kid says that they want that one, that puppy at the shelter or whatever it may be. And then you're calling a trainer later with behavioral issues. Like, I love that you reached out to a trainer when you were ready to bring another dog in and were like, hey, you're the expert on this, like, help me fit a dog to our lifestyle.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. Yeah. And I I think you you bring up a great point. I think that you know, you need to know what you want, but I think also most people don't, and and I me included, don't have the ability to really understand what a dog's personality is. And there's certain breed characteristics, obviously, that make a huge difference in the kind of dog, but also being able to judge, is this dog going to be reactive? Is this dog going to be aggressive? Is this dog, you know, are you getting a dog that's going to be a good fit? And I think there are people who like you who can look at a dog and say, I, you know, understand how to evaluate a dog. And there's a lot of people that don't. And I think it's, it's, I have I think that there's a lot of people that have a lot of really good intentions trying to pull a lot of dogs out of shelters. But I think there's also, I think there needs to be a little bit more discernment on what types of dogs people are getting because it's it's there's a lot of good dogs out there, and you have to make sure that you're fitting people with the right kind of dog.
Good Rescues Versus Dangerous Placements
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And we were talking a little bit, we got into just like the tip of the iceberg with this before we, you know, started this podcast. But something that we were talking about is good rescues versus not so great rescues.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I, you know, so I think I'm I I'll give everyone the benefit of the doubt that people really want to do the right thing. But I think there are a number, I'm really fortunate, people like Sherry, uh, Angela, Aiden. I mean, there are people. Angela's uh one of uh she does a rescue with uh with Meg from uh Pasadena Pause, but they've got they've got a rescue here in California. And there's a number of rescues that we we support that people really have the skills to evaluate the dogs and are pulling good dogs and shelters and making sure they go to good homes and are fitting the right people with the right dogs. And I think there's a lot of that. I also think there's some people that maybe look at rescue more as a something that they can monetize and operate under the guise of monetizing of rescue and really running it more like a business. And I don't know that that's beneficial. I think that, you know, I don't think that anyone benefits from getting the wrong dog. And, you know, you see a lot of these dogs that get returned to shelters, and you know, it's it's it that's sad. I think, you know, you get the right dog with the right person and everyone's happy. You get the wrong dog with the wrong person and everyone's unhappy. And you get this poor dog that doesn't know what the hell's going on, yeah, and they're in the wrong home where they can't really thrive and lead their best life, and then they're going back to the shelter. And that's I mean, that's not I uh that's not something that's good for anyone.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, something that I see a lot, which I've been doing this for almost eight years now, I believe. And I used to have the mentality of like there's no bad dogs, and I can any dog can be trained. It's just like finding the right methods, whatever. And my opinion has changed so much, and I personally don't work with super gnarly dogs anymore. Dogs, like in the past, I would have worked with dogs that have bitten like everybody, you know, and I'm like, yeah, I can train that dog, but now I don't because I've seen the fallout of these dogs and they really they hurt people. Like, there was a story recently of a dog a woman who got killed by her dog. She was home alone, the dog attacked her, like somebody came home, found her, you know. And so as a dog trainer, those are the things that I see, and I see these really bad rescues that are pulling dangerous dogs and placing them in very empathetic hands and like selling it as like this dog just needs love, like just save him, you know, give him everything. And then these people get these dogs and they're getting bit, they're ending up in the hospital. Like, it is it's traumatizing for me as their dog trainer. I'm like, I don't like, I don't want to see you on the news. I don't, you know, want to see these things, but they're adopting these very unstable dogs out. And I feel like part of being a good rescue is having that discernment. Is yes, we can be empathetic and we can feel for dogs, but at some point you have to look at the dog and you have to be able to be like, I love this dog, and what is best for this dog is not going into somebody's home so that it can hurt somebody, you know? Like that's kind of the the side of it that I see.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think you're right, and I think that but you talk about that discernment, and I think that that is a skill, and that is a very unique skill that takes a lot of time and training to get there, and I don't have that, but I know enough to know that I don't have that, and I know enough to know that it takes a lot of of training and a lot of time to to really get to that point, and I think you know just wanting, just loving dogs and wanting to be a part of that community doesn't give you that skill. And you're you're absolutely right. And I think that the you know, the the impact on the dog is huge, like you said, the impact on the people, and it doesn't have to be as severe as going to, you know, to to you know, going to the hospital or getting bit or watching the dog bite, you know, a parent, a child, someone else. I I mean yeah, so I belong to the uh the husky forum on Reddit, and it's all filled with these people of, you know, I got this husky and I don't understand what's going on. He's you know, he's destroying my house. He, you know, he ate my cake.
SPEAKER_02Drywall, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And then they're like, so what do you do? And like I he's got a snuffle mat. And I'm like, you know, uh, you know, we we take him out on the weekends for a hike, and that's that's and I'm sure that that person loves that dog, and I'm sure that person wants to do the right thing, but there's a lot of work that goes into that, a lot of time commitment, and you know, they they might have a job where they don't do that. They maybe travel during the week and they're you know, they're they're on flights, maybe they, you know, whatever. But if you you need to understand what those those requirements are to have a dog, and you know, I think part of the job of the rescue is to put the right dog with the right people and to pick pick those dogs and discern what dogs really should be going with people into their homes. Yeah, I think I said that all right.
Breeds Genetics And Ethical Breeders
SPEAKER_02We got it. Um, like the the rescue Novi's Ark is who I got my cattle dog puppy from. And she was very selective about who those puppies went out to. And me and my friend Cassidy, she's another dog trainer. We went up there and she was like asking us, like, okay, based on who you see, what do you, what type of homes do you think that these dogs should go in? And there was one like female that was super stable and neutral, and we're like, this would be better for somebody that has kids, you know, like this one is gonna be a problem. Like, make sure that it goes with like an experienced family, you know, things like that. But I really, really liked that she told people no. She was like, this shouldn't be your 12-year-old daughter's first dog. Like, get a get a different type of dog, get a smaller dog, get a golden retriever, get a lab, you know, an easier dog that is more fit for your lifestyle. And she's able to like have that discernment.
SPEAKER_00And I think uh you posted out this a couple of years ago, and before I got before I got Larry, you were posting a lot about the importance of breeds and how you know you really need to understand that you know these working dog breeds have these requirements. And I think a lot of people see a husky and they're like, oh, look at that pretty dog.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Or a, you know, uh, a cattle dog. Oh, those are so smart. I want to teach my dog to do tricks. But what they don't understand are a Malinois. I mean, my God.
SPEAKER_02There's so many Malinois now.
SPEAKER_00I I know, and they require so much work. These dogs are smart, and if they're bored, they're going to eat your house.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02So, yeah, I think my view on dog training has changed so much. I think a big part of it is genetics. Like, obviously, it's training, but even hearing you kind of talk about jefe, I'm like, that's probably just a little bit how jefe was, you know, like it's it's probably just very much a different dog. But I do believe I'm kind of in the camp of I will buy a dog from a ethical breeder that breeds for temperament, or I will rescue a dog that I get to see the temperament for, you know. Um, like my last two dogs, Muffin and uh Stony here are both rescues. They're from a backyard breeder, just like an accidental litter, you know, they were gonna get euthanized, that sort of thing. And I was like, I'll take them. And I'm very lucky in that, you know, Muffin turned out to be as solid as she is, but I see a lot of people come in with like these super gnarly malanois that I know are, you know, backyard bred. And I'm like, you would have so much better luck instead of going to a bad breeder, not even going to a good breeder, but just getting with a trainer and having them pull a dog from the shelter.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_02Like just looking at the temperament of the dog because so much of it is genetics, you know. And I think obviously as our dog trainer, like I do believe that dog training is important and setting boundaries and everything that you've talked about before. But a big thing too is knowing who you are and getting really clear on that and being like, yeah, I want a Zoe. You know, I want a golden retriever that like I don't really, I don't have to walk her a whole bunch. Like, she's happy to just greet people coming in through the door, you know, versus my Malinois, for example. It's like, okay, I'm always thinking, are they gonna run out that door if somebody comes in? Are they gonna like charge them? You know, that's a scary dog to be charged by, like that sort of stuff you always kind of have to be thinking about. And so if you don't want to live like that, don't get that type of dog. Don't get a cattle dog, don't get a Malinois, don't get a dog that was like bred to do the opposite of what you want to do.
SPEAKER_00And I think people need to hear that again and again and again. That these breeds that look really cool and that you see doing these cool things, there's a it's like the tip of the iceberg. You see these cool things with this dog, but all the work that went into that and everything that's below the water regarding that dog and those breeds, it's it's a significant commitment. It's a lifestyle. I mean, it really having any type of dog is is a lifestyle, but having one of those working breeds that's a a protection dog of some sort, one of those protector breeds, that's a huge, huge lifestyle commitment. And that's commitment for you know the next 12, 14 years.
Social Media And Unrealistic Dog Expectations
SPEAKER_02I know that's a conversation that I have with Toma a lot, is I'm like, I don't want to be in my 50s with Malin Waz. Like, I don't want that. I feel like I'm gonna age like 20 years because these dogs stress me out so much, you know. And he's kind of looking at getting a puppy because he wants to, you know, raise another sport puppy and the current dog that he has. It's not that um Hawk is necessarily like a bad sport dog, he's just very yeah, his name is Hawk. Yeah. Um it's funny because Toma Hawk.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god. That's cute. Yeah, that's great.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, it's not that he's a bad dog, but he's very much a difficult dog. And so if Toma invested his time in a different dog, he would be able to get a lot further than he can with Hawk. And that's kind of like the world of sport dog training is getting like the best kind of dog because your ceiling with that dog is gonna be so high. But we were talking about it today, especially with Stone. Stony's just like chilling in the back of the car. And Toma's like, is this what it's like to just have a dog that is not a crackhead? And I was like, Yeah, this is literally what it's like. And he was like, Oh my god, this is so different. And I was like, Yeah, I know. Imagine the people that get sport dogs that get these working line German Shepherds or Malinois and don't know what they're getting. Like, they're probably losing their minds. That's why we get all these dogs in for training.
SPEAKER_00So uh one other thing, when people are getting ready to adopt, I think people, a lot of people think they want a puppy. They think they want everybody thinks they want a puppy. And you don't want a puppy.
SPEAKER_02No. I mean, seriously. Charles is like, we're gonna say that right now.
SPEAKER_00No, you don't want a puppy. You don't want a puppy. If you want a dog, first of all, you probably want a cat. But if you if you want a dog, you don't want a puppy. You want a I mean, it there are so many middle-age, older dogs that for whatever reason are put into the shelter system that are looking for homes. And these are dogs that have good established personality. They're so chill. They are the difference between, I mean, we've just seen it with Larry now that he's almost three. Yeah. Two and a half, three. But he as he gets older, he's gotten so much more mellow.
SPEAKER_02How old did you get him?
SPEAKER_00We got him, he was a little over a year when Sherry brought him to it.
SPEAKER_02That's nice. That's a good age.
Consistency In Training And Business
SPEAKER_00And so we were really lucky. I mean, it's almost like we got a board and train. Yeah. Because he'd been staying with Sherry for a couple of months. And, you know, so when we got him, he was he had a good foundation going in. He knew how to use a leash. And, you know, we were we were really fortunate. But I think that's another thing. Look for these dogs that are, you know, that living with dog trainers.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's a great place to go.
SPEAKER_00And I think a lot of I think a lot of reputable rescues real work with trainers. And I think there's a lot of trainers. I mean, I don't I'm trying to think if I know any trainer that doesn't participate in rescue at some level. I think almost all the the ones that work with me that are are my customers are working at some level on doing some type of rescue work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I mean, Wesley has like an awesome program where he'll go and find a dog, adopt a dog for you, train it, and you get it a pre trained dog that's selected for you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. He's I he's awesome. I've seen the stuff he does online where he takes the dog and he takes him into these, you know, incredibly distracting, busy. The environments and lays them down and then you know you know does these demonstrations. I mean, what a what a great trainer doing great work.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and like my friend Shane, he pretty much always has a foster dog and will adopt it out and they come fully trained, you know, and he's very selective about who they go to because he's matching the dog to the person. And I think really that's the only way that the rescue world is going to change and be more lasting, is if trainers really step up and kind of take on that role. Because I think the problem with the current rescue system is dogs are getting adopted, they have behavioral issues, they get returned. Dogs are getting adopted, get returned, adopted, returned. And so trainers are really the only thing that is stopping the dogs from being returned either back to the shelter or back to the rescue.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02You know, because they have to be trained.
SPEAKER_00They do no, you're absolutely right. Excuse me, frog in my throat.
unknownYou're good.
SPEAKER_00I don't want to cough in the microphone.
SPEAKER_02Um but yeah, I think it's kind of our job, it's our responsibility to see, especially in the US. I don't really know too much of what the rescue world is like outside of the States, just because I don't have any experience with it. But even just, you know, I last year went to Costa Rica and there's dogs everywhere. And it's just, it's so different. Like they live a completely different lifestyle. Not everybody is like, oh my gosh, a dog. Every time they see a dog, it's just like, oh, dog, you know, and we go on about our day and they're outside and running on the beach and they're fulfilled and they're pretty good for the most part. And then you come to the US and where we are have packed shelters and all of these behavioral dogs, and you know, trainers are really the only thing that can intercept that.
Where To Find Mountain Dog
SPEAKER_00No, I agree. And spay and neuter. I mean, let's let's face it, you know, I and I I I don't it's my personal opinion. I don't have a problem with ethical breeders. I think that, you know, breeding dogs, there's nothing wrong with that. I think that's that's great. But I think that for every person that truly is an ethical breeder, there are a hundred people that claim to be an ethical breeder and absolutely are not. You're never gonna have someone stand up and say, hey, I'm a backyard breeder. This dog's had 15 litters in the last 10 years, and you know, I'm this is my income source. And when this dog ages out and can't have any more puppies, we're gonna euthanize her. No one says that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But they all they all claim to be an ethical breeder, but I think really true ethical breeders are pretty few and far between. And I think No, I completely agree. And I and I think I mean, so the and I'm not against ethical breeders. I again this is all just my opinion. But I'm I think that that they do that absolutely great thing. I think it's great, but I think there are way, way, way too many people claiming to be ethical breeders that are not.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for sure. And they're breeding dogs that are not bred for temperament, they're bred for looks. And the tough thing is it's really hard for people to figure out if their dog is coming from an ethical breeder or not. And as a trainer, I know, you know, like I have a dog right now that I'm like, this dog came from a breeder, but I see the dog's very neurotic tendencies. Yeah. And I'm like, ooh, this is you are definitely not well bred, you know, which is sad for the dog too, because they didn't ask for that. They didn't ask to like come into the world with all of these issues, but I see it a lot with like doodle breeders and Frenchy breeders, like typically if if breeders are breeding dogs for a specific color or like some sort of off-color, like silver labs or you know, like weird things like that, that's kind of like a big red flag. But I think going back to reaching out to a trusted trainer, we can see right through that, you know, or like I have contacts for a good golden breeder and a lab breeder and a Malinois breeder. Like I, at the end of the day, am, you know, pretty well enmeshed in the industry. And the industry is pretty small.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, like you're you have probably experienced that.
SPEAKER_00It is.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And so we can help you find, you know, an ethical breeder or a dog to be adopted that is a good fit for you.
SPEAKER_00Well, and you know, like I said, mine's a gerbarian ship. I mean, you know, he's like he's a mix.
SPEAKER_02He's a, you know, and he's like the best dog.
SPEAKER_00He's an awesome dog. And I think there's, I mean, just saying, oh, I wanna, you know, I want to get a certain breed, there's there's nothing wrong with that. But I think there's a ton of these great mixed breed dogs out there that have great personalities and you know, just are are would be an amazing addition to the right home. I think it just takes someone like you or Sherry Lucas or whoever to discern and help to understand.
SPEAKER_02And I love what she's got going on, especially because she does specialize with Huskies, because I feel there's not a lot of people out there, rescues or trainers who are taking on Huskies. Like they're notoriously kind of a difficult dog. And I love that Sherry has decided that, like, you know, these are the dogs that I'm gonna help and find homes for.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And in case anyone who has never met Sherry, you'll see her online persona. You'll see what she does on her, you know, she she's got a huge amount of content online and she seems like a really nice person. She is about a hundred times nicer in person. She is just the nicest, sweetest lady. I I cannot say enough good things about her. Because I I'd worked with her. We we make some product for her, and we've, you know, I've I've talked to her, you know, on the phone a couple of times before we adopted through her. And then when I had her at my house dropping off the dog, I was just so impressed with just what a kind person she is, how how nice. So I mean, I just I adore Sherry. So she's she's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, she was a big inspiration for me, especially in like my early days of becoming a dog trainer. I really like her mindset. And two, I think she's pretty badass for staying in the industry as long as she has and keeping her kind heart.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, I I have found myself kind of withdrawing a little bit because it's like it's very intense and it's very much like a man's world and it's a lot. Is it so? Dog training?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, I do. Oh, you see, my so I'm not arguing, but my perspective is very different. I think this, I think dog training is very much uh if not the majority, it's at least 50-50 with women. I find a lot, at least my customers, the majority of the customers that I work with are women that are trainers.
SPEAKER_02I will say the majority of dog training is women, but the loudest people who are like big on social media and you know, like that is all men. Like, there are not a lot of women who are traveling and hosting seminars. And I think Samantha is one of the few, you know. I've done a couple, but it's mostly men, it's mostly men that have dog training podcasts, it's mostly men that are kind of like dominating, especially the online world of things.
SPEAKER_00Well, I so that again, just perspective. Because like I said, most of my customers, and because the people that I follow on social media are almost exclusively my customers, so I see you know mostly women. So that's my perspective on it.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I love that. That's great. Well, it is let's keep it that way.
SPEAKER_00So it's funny you talk about Sherry. I remember, so before we got hefe, I remember watching the Dog Whisper, uh, Caesar Milan show. And I I think it was the first season, there was this thing where he Sherry was on there, and at the time I didn't, I had no idea who Sherry Lucas was. And there was an episode where he goes to her home and they're walking, and she's walking this huge pack of dogs. And I just remember thinking, wow, who's that crazy lady walking all those dogs? And I had no idea what a pack walker was. I mean, I I had no idea that you know being in the dog industry was going to be, you know, part of my future. But I just remember that.
SPEAKER_02And then actually, you know, you got a dog from that crazy lady.
SPEAKER_00She's not crazy. I shouldn't say that. Someone's gonna take that out of context. For sure, you're not crazy. But uh I but yeah, it's just funny how the it kind of comes around. But yeah, she's been in there in that part of you know, dog training. And I think, you know, prior to Caesar, that was a much smaller niche market, and he really kind of brought that to the forefront and really kind of changed that for a lot of people.
SPEAKER_02Oh, for sure. I think um Caesar is a little uh like some people love him, some people hate him. I am kind of in the camp of none of us would have jobs if it weren't for him.
SPEAKER_00I I I agree. I think the dog training, I mean, he really made that industry mainstream. I think, I mean, there were always dog trainers out there, but that was sort of a real niche industry, and people didn't really think about training their dog, and people didn't think about walking their dogs. I mean, he really made the case for you've gotta walk your dog every day, all the time, you know, and and you know, dog psychology and those types of things. I think, you know, without him, that wouldn't be part of the mainstream conversation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. What are some of the biggest shifts that you've seen in like dog ownership from when you first got into it to now?
SPEAKER_00Uh dog ownership. I I don't know that I've seen that much in dog ownership. I've seen a lot of changes within the industry with consolidation, with sort of the mom and pops going away, and both the industry with companies, with the manufacturing and everything side consolidating, and then the brick and mortar side of the business consolidating. Um, and and so so many of the smaller, really awesome uh neighborhood businesses that are being you know run out by Chewy, by Amazon, and by PetSmart, and all of the you know, regional consolidation plays and uh those businesses not being able to be price competitive, even though they offer a great service and everything else, that would be the biggest thing that I've the biggest changes I've seen as far as ownership. I think that I think people are more. I mean, when did Caesar start doing his show? Is it 2005, 2006?
SPEAKER_01Oh, I have no idea.
SPEAKER_00Somewhere back in there. And so I think by the time I got into the industry, training was becoming more popular. I think it's become even more popular. I think social media has really made pet parents, dog owners, aware of the necessity of training and that there are a lot of there are a lot of options out there for how to to train your dog and stimulate your dog and to make sure you've got a well-behaved dog. Yeah. I think that's become more and more mainstream. I think social media has been a huge part of that.
SPEAKER_02Oh, for sure.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I I I remember talking to someone right when I started the business, like, yeah, my dog has an Instagram page. And I was like, that, you know, I think that's weird. That's unheard of. And and now I'm like, you know, everyone's dog has an Instagram page. You know, and it's so many trainers are are out there and you know, really promoting what they do with social media. I think that's a huge change.
SPEAKER_02You know what's kind of silly is a change that I've seen just in my experience is I used to have to try to force people to do more with their dog. And now I'm getting dogs that are the opposite, that are like overtrained and they can't like settle, or you know, they have like all of this obedience on them. I'm like, wow, this is impressive. And then they, you know, have other types of behavioral issues. And I'm like, hey, we need to like do a little less, you know? Yeah, it's crazy just because of social media, like, there's so much dog training content out there, and owners, I think there's a lot of people like you know, myself. I don't have kids, I don't really plan on having kids. Like, my dogs are pretty much my world. And I have gone down the rabbit hole that I could of becoming a dog trainer. Like, I literally, you know, got this facility pretty mostly for my dogs.
SPEAKER_00Um, and there's a facility that you were never ever going to get.
SPEAKER_02I literally said that I was never gonna get. It's funny because when I got it, I had so many people that were like, You said that you weren't gonna get a facility. And I'm like, I also said I wasn't gonna get Malinois, but here we are. I have two. Yeah. It's funny to go to lit and listen back on my podcast because I've been doing it for like six years now. Um, but yeah, there's so many people out there that are very much like me and their dogs are their entire lives, and I have to like reel them back a little bit and be like, hey, this is a bit unhealthy. We need some boundaries, we need some separation, we need some downtime. It's just such a different conversation that I used to have with people, you know?
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think with all things social media, I think social media sometimes, many times, provides an unrealistic picture of what dog ownership, of you know, what the ideal life with the dog is. And I think people see these, you know, these great pictures of, you know, uh and these videos of dogs doing these amazing things. And what they don't see is all the failures that went into that and all of the, you know, the times that the dog didn't do what you wanted, and all of the really boring work that goes into having a dog that will, you know, lay down in the cafe and have coffee next to you and ignore everything else. And I mean, there's a lot of work that goes into that. And yeah, I think people get this unrealistic view that they're gonna, you know, adopt, you know, uh Fido the Malamois, and they're gonna take him to, you know, to Starbucks and he's gonna lay down on the patio, and that isn't gonna happen without a lot of work on the backside that you no one's gonna see.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, and what's also funny is good dog training is very boring. It's very uneventful, and that is typically not what does super great on social media. And even when I'm sending videos to owners, I'm like, same thing, same thing that we're worked on yesterday, we're working on today. It's actually very boring and repetitive, and all of the flashy stuff that you see online is like one percent of what we actually do.
SPEAKER_00So I talk to my son a lot about, you know, how you achieve goals and how you get which one. And I always say, you know, and he's like programmed. I'll say, How do you get anything you want? You're like, Dad, do I have to say it again? I'm like, Yes, son, you have to say it. How do you get anything you want? He's like, be consistent and persistent. Yeah, and that's I mean, it's really that's the back end to everything. And it's I at least my opinion is the back end to everything is just being really consistent and keeping and doing these small things day in, day out. And it's the same with owning a business or training a dog or whatever. I think those are really that's the you do that hard work, you do the mundane stuff, and it doesn't, you don't have to hit the ball out of the park every time. But you're going up, you're getting in the bat, you're taking the pitches, you're doing the things you need to to, you know, to to put in the work, and eventually it really pays off. But it's these little steps that you take day in, day out that lead to this big success at the end.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's not flashy and there's not a reward waiting for you at the end of every day. You know, it's working every single day, knowing like, oh, this is not gonna be what I want it to be tomorrow or the next day or the day after that. It's like months and years from now that I'm gonna look back and be like, wow, I've made so much progress with dogs and life.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, and so I think about it as far as business, you know, the things that that that I'm seeing succeed and the things that, you know, that are coming to fruition now are stuff that we planned and started a year ago, 10 months ago. And I think most people think, you know, oh, you do this, it happens tomorrow. And it doesn't, it happens a year from now, and it's all those little steps you take to get there. But I think I think dog training is kind of a microcosm of at least my view on dog training is sort of a microcosm of so many things in life. And it, you know, it pays off, but it takes a long time and it's all these little things.
SPEAKER_02It's being super, super consistent. Yes, yeah. Well, thank you so much for joining me today.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for giving me the opportunity. Thanks for letting me come by the the and see the the new facility. It looks great.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Tell the people where they can find you.
SPEAKER_00Uh, so we're online, mountain dogproducts.com. We're on Instagram, same thing, Mountain Dog Products, Facebook. So, yeah, check us out. And uh, thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, thanks for coming, and thanks for making the best Lucias ever.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for the best.
SPEAKER_02And thank you guys for listening. We will see you back here next week.