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The Everyday Trainer Podcast
The Everyday Trainer Podcast
What If Freedom Requires Discomfort First
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The fastest way to stay stuck with a reactive dog is trying to prevent every mistake. We sit down for a real coaching call with a dog owner juggling a powerful adult mix (German Shepherd, Great Pyrenees, Belgian Malinois) with prey drive and leash reactivity, plus a new puppy who feels “easy” by comparison and triggers a whole new wave of dog owner guilt.
We get practical about what changes behavior: using the e-collar as a clear, fair consequence for full commitment chasing (bikes, cats, fast-moving triggers) instead of living in constant management with leash pops, distractions, and pre-emptive nagging. We also talk through the part nobody posts online, the discomfort of correcting a dog in public and the fear of being judged, and why consistency matters more than perfection when safety and liability are on the line.
Then we zoom out to the day-to-day plan: build engagement through a repeatable training game, use play and impulse control to stop the “scan and explode” loop, and keep sessions short so you don’t burn out. For the puppy, we lower the bar: more sniffing, more confidence, more rewarded check-ins, and a gradual path to a structured heel. We also cover separate walks, separation anxiety practice with short departures, and how to supervise rough play and advocate for both dogs.
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Why This Session Matters
SPEAKER_04Hey guys, welcome back to the Everyday Twin O podcast.
SPEAKER_05My name is Meg, and I'm not Twino. Today's episode is a recording from a virtual session that I had that I feel is a very good representation of what a lot of dog owners are going through. So she was struggling with a lot of guilt, dog mobile guilt around not doing enough for her dogs. So we talked about that. Also around letting our dogs mess up so that we can correct them for behavior and not hang out in management for forever. Which I feel like it's something that I've seen a lot as well. I'm sharing this episode because I know it's going to resonate with so many people out there. So you know the drill.
Meet Nami And Ponyo
SPEAKER_04Grab yourself a tasty drink and enjoy. Hello.
SPEAKER_01Good morning.
SPEAKER_04How are you? I'm good. Tell me about yourself and your dog and what you got going on.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Um, I am I have a four-year-old dog that is a German Shepherd, Great Pyrenees, Belgian Melanois. That's crazy. He is a very interesting dog. And like all three breeds really show up in different ways.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and uh I gave him something to chew on, and he's making noise. Um, so I have him, and I I actually probably have a lot to talk about with him, but then I decided just recently I decided to adopt a puppy and she is about four months old, and I got her DNA tested. Both of them, I got their DNAs tested. Um they both came from the shelter, and she is 50% basset hound, 40% blue healer, and a little and 10% border collie. Okay. Um, and I think what's happening, so I've had her for two months, and what's happening, she's like a doll. I love her so much, she's so easy, and she's really showing me that like how hard. So, Nami is my older dog, not and the puppy is Pony.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_01And just having Ponio for a couple months, it's like she's so just pure and innocent, and she's learning so quickly and easily, and she has no anxiety. Nami has a lot of anxiety and neediness um and reactivity, also. Like, there's all these issues I deal with with Nami. And now that I have her, uh I have these feelings of like, oh, she's perfect, and I'm starting to like worry more about stuff I didn't deal with with Nami.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, but at the same time, I really want to train her good. And I um wanted to meet with you because I have like an understanding of dog training. Um I have followed you, I follow Shane, Murray. I think I've signed up with Nami. I signed up with both of your communities at different times, um, but didn't, you know, I went on for a month and then got off. And and both of you have helped me. I've also worked with like in-person training around here. Okay. Um, but I want some like encouragement or guidance. I have like a bunch of questions I wrote down. Um, I think I'm maybe like a like lazy when it comes to dog training, or so I don't know what it is, but like I think I like kind of get what to do, but I have a hard time doing it because some maybe with Nami, I thought, oh, he's good enough or something. Um that's kind of like the summary, and and what I so I really want, I have like specific questions, but I just like I wanted a professional to like tell me what to do and hold and sort of like hold me accountable.
SPEAKER_05That's totally valid. I love that. Um, I will say I very, very rarely come across somebody who is scheduling a virtual session with me, who is on the communities, who is on dog trainer social media, who is lazy about dog training. So you kind of dismiss like that talk about yourself for sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, and that's in it's interesting you say that because like I compare myself to my friends, and I'm way more into dog training than a lot of my friends with dogs. Yeah, but I think I do compare myself to like you and Shane and like people I see who are like doing it really well and like really naturally, and and just and I think like, oh, I should do that, or why am I not like doing the things I think I should be doing more?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, well, I've been doing this for a long time, you know. That's that's definitely part of it, and you're really only seeing like a highlight reel of both of us, you know, that's just social media, like even some days yesterday. We took all the dogs to go run around out in nature because for the past two days I haven't done a lot with them, you know, and it's been boring. And I'm like, you know what? We need to we need to get the dogs out and kind of let them rip. So I definitely have those days. Um, let's go ahead and start with some of your questions, and then we'll just kind of go from there.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah, and um yeah. Uh so I want to talk, I have questions specifically about Nami, and then I have questions about working with the two of them together.
SPEAKER_05Okay, and I will take some notes. I promise I'm not like ignoring you, but yeah, retyping. So um Nami is your older one. How old is Nami?
SPEAKER_01Four years old. Okay, and I have he's an interesting personality because he's like very I think the Great Pyrenees gives him a very mellow demeanor, like he's very calm when he's feeling relaxed at home or if there's no triggers, he's extremely mellow, walks great on the leash, like just as a chill guy.
SPEAKER_05Um and he's Great Pyrenees Mal and what else?
SPEAKER_01German Shepherd.
SPEAKER_05What an interesting mix! That's super cool.
SPEAKER_01There's a lot of Great Pyrenees up here, yeah. I'm sure there's like a lot of ranches. He came from like the hills of Humboldt. He was found with his sister, yeah. That makes sense. Like a yeah, um so and I have learned I worked with a trainer in person and learned how to use an e-collar up here. Okay, and so but that's I that's something I've been inconsistent with, but I do believe it's like magic with him. And I think my reasons for like not using it all the time are like very silly. Uh and and um, but he does know how to he's conditioned, like he understands the e-collar. I understand it too. He's probably he's e-collar smart, like he knows when it's on him.
SPEAKER_05So, what areas are you struggling with him, or what are your goals with him?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so lately it as he turned three. Wait, maybe he's just three. Now I'm confused. He's either I'm saying four. It's funny. Okay, uh he's three or four. I don't need to do the math right now, but at some point he he was just the sweetest puppy uh with everybody dogs, humans. And at some point he started like on a leash, he'll see a rant a dog and just do this very aggressive barking. Yeah. Um, he also is very reactive to like cats and motorcycles.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_01And I have not talked to anyone about using an e-collar to like stop that. So that's a question I have is like if I know right now it just like happens, and I use a prong collar with him, and I try to like either distract him from the thing I see coming or say no before he does it.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_01So I'm a little confused about to handle that sort of reactivity, and it's um yeah, and it happens in my yard, like when he's at the gate, if he sees a motorcycle, he loses it.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
High-Level Corrections For Prey Drive
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah. And then the e-collar, I'm just gonna tie in this question too. Like, why am I like not using the e-collar? Like, sometimes I think I get like because he has a prong collar, like I, and this might be a maybe I'll use the word lazy, I don't know, or something, but like it's like adding all the collars on him. Sometimes I just want to go on a walk with his prong collar. Even though I probably should, I think I should probably always use his e-collar. And that's a question for you. It's like now if I think the e-collar really works, I should probably use it like all the time. How big is he? He's 93 pounds.
SPEAKER_05Okay, definitely use the e-collar. You are never going to be able to physically punish those behaviors. So there's a difference between a disruptor and a punishment, right? So, like your prong collar pops might disrupt the reactivity in the moment. But if a bike were to whiz past you again, is he gonna go and do the exact same behavior again? And you are you kind of like nagging him with the prong collar? Yeah, yeah. So I would kind of take the next steps and I would do a high-level e-collar correction for chasing bikes, for chasing any sort of like prey item, essentially. And that's all that's going on, is like hi prey drive, something goes by super fast. He's like, Oh, chase, get that thing. I would disrupt that with a high level e-collar correction, so you don't have to nag with your prong collar and your leash all the time. And like you could honestly get to the point where you could walk him around with just an e-collar on, no leash, you know. And right, I think a good in-between would maybe be like a flexi lead or a long line and an e-collar, because I kind of want the dogs to do the thing so that I can correct them for it. You know, so not disrupting before it happens, but go ahead, chase that thing, and then I'll punish you for it. And he's gonna be like, Oh my gosh, that was really uncomfortable. I don't want to do that again, you know, right.
SPEAKER_01How do I know what high level is? Because like I've kind of I've used it. I know he like I have a sport dog collar, that's what the trainer recommended. Yeah, and um, I use the middle, the low, there were like three settings, and then in those three settings, you there's like seven.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01In so he's in the middle. The low didn't seem to be like high enough because I I did use it once, yeah. But so now he's in the middle, and he knows he if he's not listening to me, and I can hit two when he comes to me. And that doesn't seem that seems low to him, too. So I guess I'm like not sure how to figure out what high is.
SPEAKER_05High would probably be like you keep it in the middle, but you're up at seven. Okay, you know, so like I use the mini educator. If I have a dog whose working level is at like an eight, I'm probably gonna be cranking up my e-collar to like 50, 60, 70 for things that I don't want the dog to ever do, you know, and that's something that like I don't want you to do that because what if he gets out and chases a bike or you know, like that's a behavior that is like should be stopped. And I don't want you to do it in any sort of context. If it's something like um, you know, minor like jumping up on you, right? I'm obviously not gonna blast him at a super high level, but for like chasing prey or any sort of like unsafe, impulsive behaviors, I'm gonna nip that in the bud right away. And so I personally would have him on a long line or a flexi leash, you go for a walk. Maybe you know that something is gonna zip by and you're kind of setting him up. Have your e-caller ready at that seven, and then when he commits to going after, I'm gonna press and hold for a couple seconds, and he's probably gonna be like and then he'll come back to you. You know, but I want the correction to happen away from you. I don't want I don't want you to hold him and heal and correct him and heal because then we're ruining heel. So that's kind of why I want a flexi or a long line. Go ahead, do the thing, and then I'll correct you when you're out away from me, and then he's gonna shoot back to you and be like, Oh my gosh, mom, I'm so sorry. You know, right correcting your dogs is a bit uncomfortable to watch, but you're not gonna have to do it all the time. You maybe have to do it once or twice, and then he's gonna be like, Oh, that behavior really sucks, and I'm not gonna do that again. So the next time a bike comes whirring by, he's gonna be like, Oh, I want to, but I'm not going to because the last time I did this, I got punished for that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, right. So you net there's no preemptive punishing, you're never like giving him a little tap. Like if I see a bike coming and he kind of sees it also, is there ever a time when you give him like a little tap and you're and you say like no?
SPEAKER_05Um, no, because like you can watch the bike, you can look at the bike. That's not the issue that I have. The issue that I have is like you committing to lunging at the bike.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05You know, right.
SPEAKER_01And I have I will say I have this thing about it being uncomfortable to watch. That's probably why I haven't done this.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And also I feel, and I know I have to get over this, and you should tell me to get over it, but I think I have a little shyness with people. Like, I live in a town, this whole area has so many dogs. Like people, everyone's got dogs. Yeah. And I feel a little like embarrassed for other people to see that, or I'm nervous that someone's gonna like give me shit for it. And I know I really believe in e-collars, so it's like I should be able to stand up to and you know, not worry about what other people think. Yeah, but I think I have been a little shy.
SPEAKER_05Like, I don't want to it's super tough, especially if you have a vocal dog, you know. Like, um, I just I recently did a board and train with a Doberman that was very similar to this, more so reactive with dogs, but he would fully commit. Like, if a little dog ran by, he would like go after that. And so I set him up and we went to a park, and a little dog, you know, zipped by and I corrected him on a high-level stim. And he's a Doberman, so of course he's gonna be, you know, screaming, and like people were definitely pulling out their phones to record us, but the alternative is way worse, you know, and that's what I see is I see dogs that have bitten people before, that have bit a guy on a bike, that has grabbed a little dog, and then you're putting your dog's life at risk, like you're risking them getting put down because they have gotten somebody on a bike, you know, and like it happens with the wrong person, and that person's gonna come after you and everything that you own, you know. So that's the alternative, and that's what I see as a dog trainer is I kind of see what happens when we don't address these behaviors, you know, because we don't want to do that, we don't want to correct our dog in front of people, and then shit happens, and then people are getting sued and dogs are abiding people. So I'm able to do it easily because I'm like, I'm never gonna see you again, you know, and like that person doesn't have your dog, you know, they probably would never take a dog like that out because they don't know what to do with it, or they would drop it off at a shelter, you know, if it's lunging at bikes and people and things going by, they would be like, Oh my gosh, I'm not even gonna take this dog out of my yard. Right in order to give your dog a better life, a safer life, more freedom, like you do kind of need to address that. And at the end of the day, you're the one with your dog, you know. So that's kind of what I always hold when I'm working through that, and it's definitely uncomfy. You know, I was at a park in San Diego when I had to correct this Doberman, and it wasn't a fun thing. I was like, Oh my gosh, this is horrible. But ultimately, if that dog wants to be out in public, like that behavior has to be corrected.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, I agree with you, and it's an it's it's nice. I mean, I don't know what it is, but it's interesting that you have those same feelings, yeah. But you've just like mentally, you know, or logically, you believe in it so much that you're like, I'm gonna alternative is worse.
SPEAKER_05I get it, yeah. And that's the thing is like I see the alternative and I see people struggle with that and go through lawsuits and all of that.
SPEAKER_01So I'm like, I don't care if they record, you know, I don't want a dog to I've had a couple experiences, which I don't have to tell you the details, where I like something happened with Nami, and I did have like a feeling of like, wow, what if they came after you know, like if that got worse, they could like try to put Nami down or something. Like, yes, Nami doesn't want to kill or hurt, but he could, yeah. Or something.
SPEAKER_05So no, I and I have a dog that is very similar, like she is impulsive and does dumb things, you know. And I I'm always kind of running through that in my mind of like I have my finger on the trigger in case she at the last second decides to go jump a fence or do something stupid, you know.
Swap Walk Fixation For A Game
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What do okay? So this next question is probably gonna like go into walking with Ponyo, also. And but like, what do I do about Nami's new thing with barking at other dogs? Do I just like stay away from like on walks? And everyone in this town wants to like greet each other, and we walk around and everyone knows each other, and everyone knows each other's dogs, so so it'd be really easy for me to be like, no. Um, and I'm getting, I think I'm it's like this new thing right now where I'm like, okay, okay, so now it's coming. Now I have all these questions about like now I have these two dogs. I have I just started walking her because I was waiting for her to be fully vaccinated. I just started walking her. I think I probably have to do like I don't know if I should be doing like separate walks with the two of them, but now I I just have so many questions now about walking both of them.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so I would definitely address the reactivity or the like lunging at bikes and stuff first. Like you could literally do that in one session, take her out, you know, she goes and lunges, and also like make sure that in the moment you don't kind of viscerally really react. So good dog trainers are always a little bit like bipolar. Like, if I correct you, it's not personal, you know. So, like she, you know, or he goes in, lunges at the bike, stim goes on, no, shoots back over to you. All right, come on, let's go. You know, I'm kind of kind of flipping that moment. You could address that right away, and your walks would probably be a lot better. Is your younger puppy the one who is being reactive? Or yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01The older one who's reactive to cats and motorcycles has has started to also like pick he seems to pick up energy from certain dogs, like he's instant from a distance, like he'll be wagging his tail. Yeah. I can and or yeah, he'll so and it's usually when we get closer, yeah, that he'll if like I do say hi to dogs, he'll he's on a leash and I can see something shifts in his energy, and then he does this like really aggressive bark.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I would first address the impulsiveness around bikes, cars, cats that prey drive, because it's definitely leaking over into other areas, you know. So you might find that if you correct that behavior, he's like, Oh, okay, I'm not gonna do that, but you would address it very similarly, you know. So either there's like two approaches that you can do at the same time, but first, I want to make sure that I'm stopping the rehearsal of the behaviors, so either that you stop going on walks with him, once you address the impulsiveness with bikes, I would say maybe stop going on walks with him and just work on building up some sort of game with him, either training with food or tug or something. And then you take that game and you go to the park and you go, you know, outside your driveway and play that same game. And when dogs walk by, you don't care about those dogs because you're so focused on playing the game with mom. So that is kind of how I change the dog's underlying feeling of you know being impulsive, being reactive, right? I teach them a game and then I play that game in as many different places as possible. No matter what is going on, we still play the game. With the game, I'm always gonna have some sort of opening cue. So are you ready? That's gonna open up. We're gonna do a training session, we're gonna play the game. And then for me and like the a lot of the clients that I work with, I'll do food chases at first. So especially since he's high drive or prey drive, let's play into that. And I can grab a piece of food, go, toss it on the ground. He's gonna chase it, he's gonna grab it, and then he'll come back this way, go. And I'm kind of doing this chase game back and forth with him to get him focused on the game, focused on me. And then once he's like in it, I can start asking for behaviors. And it could be anything, it could be sit, it could be down, it could be heal, but I'm just trying to get the dog using their brain and be focused on me, even when a dog is walking by, even when you know there's a bike or a cat or whatever, so that he learns like, oh, okay, I don't have to pay attention to those things. When we're just going for like a walk, it's hard not to fixate on that, especially when we have a high drive dog, you know, plus you've also got the mix of a guardian breed in there who is gonna be suspicious of dogs and animals, and you know, that's literally what they're bred for, is like a dog approaches you, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know, so you've got that mixed with high prey drive, which is a wild mix. Um, but personally, a dog like that I wouldn't try to fulfill just through walks, yeah.
Fetch Skills And Impulse Control
SPEAKER_01You know, and he does so he's very into he does love playing with he like I have a stick toy. He loves playing fetch or frisbee, but I have a hard time calling it fetch because he's really bad at bringing it back to me. Okay, but he's extremely focused. I mean, that's when the melanoi comes out, like it's I I I can take him to the park with these toys. And actually, I don't think it's ever happened where like a motorcycle goes by. I so I've never seen I don't see how focused he is, but he's pretty dang focused, like he doesn't care about other dogs when he's playing a game at the park.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, um I would capitalize on that, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Keep do do with that, do that with him.
SPEAKER_05Um yeah, and if you you could like pull up to the park and either have like a fanny pack with like a flexi lead attached to it, you know, that way when he doesn't want to bring it back, use your flexi to bring him back. And you could also do like a trade game. So you have two of the same toy, so you throw it, he goes and gets it. Come on, come on, come on. I have this one here, bring it back, we'll trade, play, play, play, throw it again. Uh-huh. That's kind of the initial stages of how I teach a dog to bring something back, um, or to like drop something, is I'll have two of the same thing.
SPEAKER_01And if I had uh if I had the same thing, I could picture him dropping the one and running without without it in his mouth to get to the second one.
SPEAKER_05I would use your leash then and teach him to bring the thing back.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_05So our leash is always going to be our directional guidance in those moments. And then once you get good at like the playing fetch game, start throwing in some impulse control in there. So put them in a down, then throw the frisbee. You know, if you break and you go to get the frisbee, no tap, tap, tap, tap, tap on our e-collar until you're back into a down. You don't get to break the down even if I whiz the frisbee by your head, you know? Because think about that. That's the cat that runs by or the bike. Right. You know, so practice the impulse control in that like active training session in that game with him.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01Um and keeping him so far, what you've heard about us, does do you does it sound like he should he should always have his e-collar on when we're out?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01I can take it off when we're home. He's a pretty well-behaved dog at home.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, if he's fine at home, as long as he's not like barking at the fence or anything like that, you know, and that's something else that I would correct as well, is like any sort of that behavior, whether it's at the fence, on the walk, you know, whatever, I would correct that behavior.
SPEAKER_01He does bark at the fence, so I should keep it on at home too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01Why do I I think I project? I'm not worried about the stim feeling for my dog. I don't think because I felt it on my hand. Like, I'm like, it doesn't, it's not an injury, it's a feeling. But for some reason, I project having his e-collar on him for a long time, like thinking it's uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_05Um, just rotate it uh-huh so it's not sitting in the same place all day.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But something like I have had to learn, and Toma, my partner, is very, he's like always getting on my ass about this. Is I grew up having uh Newfoundlands and Golden Retrievers, and there's much less of a risk with a dog like that than having a dog whose predisposition is to impulsively bite, you know. So when you have a dog that has Malinois that has Shepherd in it, like you do kind of have to have their e-collar on them all the time because when they make bad decisions, it's usually to bite something, you know, and that's gonna be a big liability. And that's something that I've had to learn with my malinois is like, oh, these are not just golden retrievers that worst case scenario, they run up to somebody and bark. You know, I know they're never gonna bite somebody. I know that I never have to worry about them running away and hurting somebody, but like for my malinois, I'm like, where's my e-collar remote? I have my finger on the trigger, like ready to go all the time. You know, it's just it's like a different type of dog ownership when you have dogs like that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And like Toma will not take his dog like out of the crate without an e-collar on. He always has an e-collar on and it's always charged, and he's always got it in his hand, it's not around his neck or in his pocket, like he's always got the remote because he has a super intense high drive dog, you know, and so there's just like this added bit of responsibility when we have dogs like that. And I'm not saying that yours is that intense, um, but anything mixed with the Malino always has a little, a little bit of that in it, you know?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And I think what you're seeing now is also reaching full maturity. So especially livestock guardian dogs don't reach full maturity until about four years old. So that's typically where they get to be a little bit more intense, a little bit more reactive, a little bit more possessive. You're starting to see that like personality come out. Yeah, definitely.
SPEAKER_04Can I see?
SPEAKER_01He's in the crate, yeah. How is the best way to do this? Do I flip the camera?
SPEAKER_05Just flip your laptop around.
SPEAKER_04Oh cute. Do you see him?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Interesting. Look at those ears.
SPEAKER_01You see him, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. He looks exactly like the mix that he is.
unknownUh-huh.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05A big fluffy shepherdy mouth.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And then the little ones in that crate. But she's harder to see. She's super cute. She's got a long body like a basset hound, but yeah, it's not the healer is making her have longer legs and pointier face and stuff.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
Two Dogs Without Burning Out
SPEAKER_01Umright. So this is all making sense with Nami, and it does make me feel a little overwhelmed. Like, I'm not. Now he's gonna cry because I went over there. Um I I feel a little overwhelmed that like I got a puppy too soon, you know, like I should have worked with Nami more. And so, how do I handle this? Like, training Ponio and Nami, like do they always have to be separate? Is and like when I do take Nami to the park, she stays home, you know, that type of question. Like, does everything and I need to teach her how to like do like not pull? And you know, she's doing all this stuff on the leash, and yeah. So, um, and I have a couple questions about her, but like it is that's just how I'm feeling right now, is like, oh wow, I got this puppy, but like I have to do all this work with Nami and do it all separate.
SPEAKER_05I don't think Nami is going to be that much work because you've already done all this tough, like you've done the e-collar conditioning, you've done all of that. All you have to do is hold him accountable, yeah. You know, and like it would literally take one or two big corrections for him to stop doing that behavior.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_05Like, I don't think it's as much work as you might think that it is. It's just literally having your e-collar on and holding him accountable.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh. And and one big correction kind of translates to another trigger, would you say? Like, yeah, which if I went to my friend's house that has like free-range trick chickens and he said I could do that there, that is a place like I could maybe do it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, for sure. Practice that. Um, and every dog is different. Like some dogs pick up context very quickly and you don't have to show them a bunch of different pictures. Some dogs, I do have to show them a bunch of different pictures. So just because I teach you not to be impulsive in a training session doesn't mean that it always carries over into like a real life scenario, you know. So it really just depends, and you'll kind of play around with that. Um, but if you have a good relationship with your dog and you've taught the e-collar, you've taught your language, like you're allowed to use it in those moments to be like, hey, I don't want you to do this thing. You know, so you go to your friend's house, they have chickens, he takes off after a chicken. No, high-level stim. He's gonna be like, oh, come back to mom. Good job. All right, come on, let's go. And then start walking again, walk past the chickens. Does he go after the chickens again? If he does, then that means that that probably wasn't that meaningful of a punishment, you know. So I'm gonna go up in either like intensity or duration of my correction, or he'll see the chicken and he'll be like, I'm not gonna do that, right? So then we know, okay, you learned in that moment to not do this thing. And then you'll take it to a different place and see is he is he thinking before he goes to react. If not, okay, I need to show you the same picture here in this new environment.
SPEAKER_01Make sense, yeah, yeah, that makes sense. But like, okay, so but it is making me wonder if I can do this while Ponio's on a leash.
SPEAKER_05I would do that session separately, you know, so like intentionally take him out to where you know there's going to be things that's gonna get him to react. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01I don't have I do have like a long leash, but maybe you do recommend a flexi lead. I don't have a flexi lead.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, like get those off of like Amazon and uh yeah. Um the only thing with the flexi is make sure your e-collar is ready because if he hits the end of the flexi, you're gonna go just like launching through the air, you know? Uh-huh. So you have to be ready with your e-collar remote before he hits the end of a flexi.
SPEAKER_01How when you're training a dog, when you're working with a dog and they're on you, you use a different e-collar than I do, but like it sounds like you have way more numbers. Like you, I think you said like you're on a seven, but then you go up to like a 50 or something. Yes. How do you do you just like push a bunch on your e-collar?
SPEAKER_05Um, so there's a dial on the top.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh. And you can get quickly to like the higher number.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_05So yours, I would have yours like ready to go set up at a high level for that sort of moment. But I do, you said sport.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I like sport dog. It's a bit um, the stem is a bit sharper, which is really good for those high prey drive dogs. So when I have a dog that doesn't respond to our e colors very well, I'll use a sport dog. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, he doesn't he doesn't seem to be um like it doesn't have it seems to be working with him. Yeah, like um, it's amazing that there's like another level I could go to. So we'll see. I will I haven't really done this. Hi, Stim.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and just play around with it, you know, like play around with the levels and see what works. And like it depends. Sometimes I have dogs that like ours go from zero to 100. Their working level, the level that they feel it when they're not in drive is like a three. And then in drive, I'm at a hundred and I'm like, hello, and nothing, you know. So every dog is a little bit different. Um, but I will say the sport dogs are made for high drive dogs, so it usually gets to them uh-huh even when they're in drive. Yeah. But I think you're at the stage where you don't have to nag him all the time, or like when he sees a dog, you don't have to disrupt that. Like you're kind of in the let him, let him mess up, punish him for it, and then try it again if he doesn't do it. Amazing. That was a meaningful lesson there, you know. And I think you'll find that it's honestly a lot easier, and your life kind of opens up with the dogs, you know. And I have changed my training a lot, I would say, over the past three years, where I did use to hang out in a ton of management with my reactive dogs, um, where I would do lots of directional changes and you know, low-level STEM. I didn't really feel comfortable, but we were never getting out of that management. And so now I'm training the dogs to where, okay, we get to a point where they're trained, they know the expectation. I can let them mess up and then punish them for that behavior. And then I don't have to nag them. You know, I have a dog who is actively making the right choice because they've made that choice before and they got punished for it. So now they're like, oh, I'm not gonna do that, you know, instead of having a dog that's like only not reacting or lunging because I'm there to manage it.
SPEAKER_03Right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Do you think since I'm gonna switch? I am going to definitely put his e-collar on all the time now on locks. I haven't been doing that. It seems like I can get rid of the prong collar.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Do you agree? It's like e-collar and and that's what I'm not, I'm not sure. Right now, he just has like a leather collar with his ID on it, a thin one. Like, is that the collar? I I can just use that collar with a flexi.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. As long as you're good with your e-collar, you know, because sometimes I find I like my owners to use the flexies because it kind of forces them to use their e-collar. And I always tell people, let the e-collar do the talking. Don't you're so used to like pressing on a leash and like pulling the dog on a leash that they won't press their button. But with the flexi, there's no constant tension. So as long as you're using your e-collar and your dog's not gonna hit the end of the leash at a flat collar, you're good with a flat collar.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. If he's on the long leap, if he's on the long leash, flexi, and he's starting to leave me to not intensely go after one of these things, but just like kind of, is that a time to like? Well, I would I use my words first, like Nami cum. And then if he's not just using like a more low level, like I can use the STEM for just yes, everything I want coming back to me.
SPEAKER_05Yes, the high level is gonna be used for that full commitment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, yeah, but it's not there's no reason why you can't just be using it all. I mean, that's kind of what you're saying.
SPEAKER_05Use the e-collar instead of let the e-collar do your talking, you know. So you're in the stage where e-collar is gonna go on if he doesn't do what you ask of him. So let's say a bike is far away at a distance, you're at a park, he's on a flexi, he's like watching the bike and kind of slowly like creeping over to it. Nami, come if he blows off your recall, tap, tap, tap, tap. As soon as he turns around to come back, tapping stops. Yes, good job. Come on, come on, come on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that all makes sense.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so stim will only come on after you don't do the thing.
Puppy Walk Expectations And Sniffing
SPEAKER_01Right. Um okay, so do you think it's now so my I want to ask a question about Pono. Do we have an hour? Yes. We we end at 10. Um my my question about Ponyo, and then and then leading into the question, do I need to train them completely separate right now? Is she's pretty good on a leash. Right now, she just has like a little harness, which I never use with NAMI, but someone gave it to me. So she's wearing a harness with a leash, and she's not pulling, she has like a little tension on the leash, but not crazy pulling. Um, I think the basset hound is making her want to stop and smell a lot. Yeah, like um she gets uh so I have a couple questions about her. Yeah. When she's like stopping and smelling, is it ever and I say I'll say something like, let's go, or come on? Um, I say come ponio or let's go, is it like is that too much? Like, is there ever like I'm saying I feel like I say that a lot? And it's like, should I say that every all the time? Every time I give her a little leash pressure to stop smelling and keep walking, should I be saying the same word over and over? Like, let's go.
SPEAKER_05Um, how old? Four months? Yeah, I think that's pretty young to hold a dog accountable to like a structured walk. So personally, what I would do with a four-month-old puppy is I would do flexi on your harness, take her out. She can do pretty much whatever she wants, but when she comes back to you, I'm gonna reward that. So she checks in with you, yes, shuffle backwards, pay, pay, pay.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_05Okay.
SPEAKER_01I'm laughing at how I think I've been a little like tough on her, thinking that she should be farther along than she is.
SPEAKER_05But yeah, yeah. And then, like, if you want to start shaping heel, have a piece of food in your left hand, pay her in heel, you know, but don't necessarily have the expectation that like she's not going to sniff and explore. Like, right now, your goal is confidence building. So let her run around, let her sniff, let her explore, and then practice your recall randomly. You know, come. She turns around. Yes, shuffle backwards, pay, pay, pay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, she's really good at that already.
SPEAKER_05Nice.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like uh, I have treats and she comes when I say come.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, perfect. And then just kind of start like shaping the heel, but I wouldn't just go walking and like expect her to. Walk and heal with you. Like, I would do lots of rewards and heal. Okay, break. You know, sniff, sniff, sniff. Come, she comes back to you, heal, you know, lure her in heal. Good. Take a couple steps, pay, pay, pay, break, you know, and kind of turn it into like this game of like, okay, sniff the environment. I'm gonna recall you back. I'm gonna put you in heal. I'm gonna reward you here, break, then go back to sniffing the environment. Uh-huh. And then over time, you'll increase the amount of time that she hangs out in heal with you. You know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What's that timeline?
SPEAKER_05Um, personally, I don't really hold dogs accountable to like a structured walk until six, seven months. Um, I do tons of like flexi walks with them, just let them run around and explore and kind of follow me. You know, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Uh what about when we see other when we see other people and dogs, she goes like that shit crazy.
Greetings, Jumping, And Neutrality
SPEAKER_05What does that look like?
SPEAKER_01Jumping up and down, like pulling on the leash, just like so excited and wanting to see them.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01And when if someone comes up to us, she definitely like doesn't, she jumps all over them. She knows how to sit, but yeah, just pure excitement.
SPEAKER_05I would cue it. So if I'm in a situation where let's say I have a friendly dog and I know that this person is gonna come up to me and be like, Can my dog say hi? Or can I say hi? Just cue it. Go say hi. Let her go say hi. Because I don't necessarily want a dog who is like never greeting other dogs because it's gonna happen to you at some point. Somebody's gonna come up to you and be like, Ah, can my dog say hi? And drag their dog up to you. Like, I kind of want my dog to see that picture and be okay with it. So just mark it, go say hi. She goes, say goes and says hi. You do a little small talk with the person. All right, let's go start walking away. She comes over to you. Yes, pay, pay, pay.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh. You know. And at this age, four months, she's pretty small, 18 pounds or something. Yeah. How should I feel about her like jumping on people?
SPEAKER_05Um, I probably wouldn't. So I would maybe do like instead of your harness, maybe like a slip lead or a like a martingale collar on your flexi. You know, that way if you need to, no, pop, pop, pop, little pops on the leash. Then when she sits down, you could also be like, oh, can I give you a treat? Can do you want to, you know, reward her when she sits? Like people love that stuff, you know. Yeah. Tell her to sit, sit, sit, oh, good job. And then, you know, reward her for that. Start kind of like shaping that. But if I have a friendly dog, I kind of want them to see all the pictures. I want you to see getting rushed by a dog. I want to be able to cue it. I want you to see greeting people as long as it's a balance, right? So if I have a dog like her who is who loses her mind whenever she sees people or dogs because she's getting so excited, I know that I need to balance it out with more neutrality with people, right? So maybe that's sitting at a park bench and she's in a sit in front of you, and you're just kind of paying that sit, you know, and people walk by, she looks at you, good, Pay. Good job, Pay, you know. But in the with puppies, the frequency is you like you're constantly rewarding them, you know. So she lays down, good, drops some food between her paws, good job, good. People walk by, she stays there, good, good. Somebody walks by and they're like, Oh my god, can I say hi to that puppy? Break, go say hi. You know, does that make sense? Yeah, so you're kind of practicing both.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um, it doesn't make sense. She could handle, I could try I have one of your slip lead leashes. Like I could try that on her.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Just so you have a little bit more control in those moments, because with the harness, it's like she's not gonna care if you're pulling her back on the harness.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um when she she's already learned I have uh treats, and I'm not I haven't used the word heal at all with her, but she actually does like get into heal like a lot.
SPEAKER_05Nice.
SPEAKER_01And like looks up at me because she wants the treat. Should I reward every time that happens?
SPEAKER_05I would for now. I kind of want that to be my default behavior. Like when you don't know what to do, come in to heal. Yeah, you know, yeah.
Short Sessions And Dog Owner Guilt
SPEAKER_01So reward that. Okay. Um walking separate. So from everything that we've said, J does it sound like I should be walking them separate. When I do go on now, yeah for now, like separate training.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but your training sessions do not have to be long, it could literally be 10 minutes.
SPEAKER_01Okay, I need to hear this because I always feel like I'm not giving my dogs enough, especially Nami, who like is always kind of looking at me all day, like and I feel like he's communicating, like, let's go play that game. Yeah, let's go play that game. And I'm like, Am I not playing that game enough with him? And maybe I probably am not. I think I need to play with him every day with his game.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I do I do two 10-minute sessions with my mouse every day.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_05And if I do more, they get psychotic. Like they literally will be like, What are we doing? And I'm like, No, no, no, I've done too much. And so, like recently, I kind of put a pause on our training because my youngest Mal, Muffin, she's been like crazy. And I'm like, Okay, I'm creating a monster. Yeah, you need to learn to be a little bit bored, you know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. But that's good to hear that two 10 minutes a day, you think is yeah, and then you know, you have a do you have a yard? Yeah, it's not big, but I'm moving to a bigger yard.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, walk around them like in the yard, let them play together, like still have time together, but not those like 10-minute sessions that you're doing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, no, this is good. And I always I actually have a lot of time in my life, and yet I feel like I don't. And so I was like, Can I handle training them separately? But it's like, yes, I can. I can I have the time, and you're saying it's like not even that much time to bring out, and there's a lot of places around here in Humboldt where I can go into like the nature and do a lot of off-leash nami can be off-leash and shull eventually, but without any people around, and that sort of stuff, like you can have them together, you know.
SPEAKER_05If you're going for a long hike, like you have, you know, her on a flexi, you have your the older dog on the e-collar, and you go for a hike.
Separation Anxiety Practice Plan
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Um, okay, cool. Does and um so Nami's had a lot of like separation anxiety in his life, and it's doesn't uh I guess it's gotten better, but part of the reason I decided to get a puppy was I thought this might help. Like when I leave you, you'll have her. Um and I put them in crates when I leave. And he had I guess he's gotten better because he used to like destroy his blanket or but he's still like I'll come home after being gone for like a half hour or an hour, and he's like totally wet from panting. Like he's still upset when I leave him. Yeah. Um, and he has like recently like done he he didn't for like a year like chew his blankets, but like he has recently like started chewing his bed when I leave him. Do you have any like am I do you think I'm just it's just like a matter of time? Like, is it I don't know. I guess I just a general question about his separation anxiety. Like, yeah, is there some extra thing I should be doing? Should I be leaving him more? Like, sometimes I think I don't leave him enough.
SPEAKER_05That's what I was gonna say. Like, I would almost practice leaving him more, um, more frequent short trips, you know. Yeah, and you can disrupt any sort of like freaking out in the crate with the e-collar, and that would be a low level. I would probably press and hold for like two seconds, two to three seconds, low level, just to disrupt it. Because sometimes the dogs will like whip themselves up into these cycles where they're like pacing in the crate, and they're like, and if you can disrupt that with the e-collar, then they'll settle. And then you're not spinning yourself for 30 minutes the whole time I'm gone and rehearsing that behavior, you know. So that would be set your laptop up, walk down the street, you have your e-collar, you're watching, you know, as soon as he starts to like spin, get himself worked up, try it, try a low-level stim. Does that get him to settle? Does it work him up even more? You know, some dogs it disrupts it right away, and they're like, oh, okay, and then they lay down. Some dogs, if I correct them when they're in that state, it like whips them up even more. So then, okay, that's probably not the best approach that I would do, you know, but practice that. Um, I would say leave a little bit more, you know. Like, I'm not the person to say anything because I like I take my dogs everywhere with me. Like they're always in my van. If I go to the coffee shop, I'm like, come on, guys, like they're just so used to being in my van all the time that they always go with me. Right. Um, but let's say like I go on a trip with them and we spend a lot of time together, and then I come back and I'm teaching classes or I'm doing other things, they definitely do struggle with separation anxiety and like FOMO. You know, they're like, Why are you doing something with another dog? Like, how dare you? You know, so it takes a bit of adjustment. So if your schedule has changed at all, if you've spent more time with him, more time at home, and then now you're leaving, and he's like, What the heck? Right. I would say, like, okay, that shows you that maybe leave more often, like practice walking out of your house, coming back in, paying. You know, you're in the crate, I'll drop some food in the crate. Good job, you know.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um I have wondered if his anxiety would be less if I didn't crate him, but then I'm like, I don't want to take that chance. I don't know.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I don't think that that's worth it. Uh-huh. You know, especially if he's in the crate. Yeah, especially if he's been destructive in the past.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um at this point, when you then they're just chilling in the yard and or at home in my house. Uh, is there any is it okay for Nami to be like if Ponyo comes up to him and he's not in the mood, he'll just like growl. Yeah. That's like communication, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's totally fine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What about if he takes it further with like a little bite?
SPEAKER_05Um, it depends on how fair he is in his corrections, you know. So, like I would definitely supervise, and if you feel that the correction was like over the top, then I would step in and I'll be like, hey, no, you you're not allowed to correct because you are not fair, you know. So, like, um Thomas dog, for example, his shepherd takes corrections a little bit too far. So we don't let him correct dogs anymore. You know, we taught him like if you're uncomfy, walk away. Yeah, walk away, leave. And then if let's say puppy is being too annoying, I'm gonna go and grab puppy. So it's not your job to correct, I'm gonna advocate for you, but also don't take things too far. Like it's not my job to kind of like manage them.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_04How you feel?
SPEAKER_01I feel good. I feel like that was, I think that was like those were my questions. Awesome. Um yeah, and just that last thing you said about I get what you're saying about me managing them and supervising them at this point. It's the same with the way they play. Like they she's pretty, she gets in, they play pretty well together, but he's 92 pounds and she's 18, and he can get really intense with her, and so I just separate, I stop him.
SPEAKER_04Does she like it?
SPEAKER_01She does like it, but then she'll cry, like, yeah, she'll get like thrown down and cry.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, does she go back or does she like want to leave? I mean, my cattle dog puppy, like he's crazy, like he loves it. He gets like tossed through the air, and he's like, Yeah, like it's the best thing ever for him. And I'm like, hey, if you keep going back, like that's fine.
SPEAKER_01I'm not gonna disrupt it, but yeah, the going back is a sign that they're happy in into the play. Do you ever worry about him getting injured by your bigger dogs?
SPEAKER_05Um I don't know. The cattle dogs are very like hardy. That's one thing I like about him. I was like, I don't think, I don't think that they could hurt you. Like, I don't know. I think if you think it's getting too intense, where he's like running away and he's like, Oh my gosh, like then I would be like, All right, all right, chill, you know. But I don't know, my dogs play so rough sometimes, like, especially the mountain walls, they'll like grab each other by the throat and they're like thrashing each other, and I'm like, Okay, I guess you guys like this, and they love it, they love to wrestle. Yeah, so just go off of like her response, you know.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_05As long as she's not like shutting down or being like overly submissive, like lip-licking, that sort of thing. Yeah, I probably wouldn't disrupt it too much.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_04Anything else?
SPEAKER_01No, that was really helpful.
SPEAKER_04Good. I'm glad.
SPEAKER_01Thank you. Thanks.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01And your on your online presence is really helpful too.
SPEAKER_04Well, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_05Um, if you do decide to do the community again, um, I do calls every Thursday. So we have a nice little group in there. I think I do a Thursdays at 2 p.m. Uh-huh. We got a bunch of other people that are kind of going through the same thing that you are.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the calls are like I people can ask you questions.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's literally just like this, but a group. Uh-huh. Cool.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01I probably will.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And then if in the process of this, like you have any questions, try to record. You know, if you're like, hey, this is what I did in this moment, try to record that way. I can watch and see and be able to help you more.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01Cool.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay. It was nice meeting you. Nice to meet you too. Thank you very much.
SPEAKER_05You're very close. You're definitely not a lazy dog owner, okay?
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05You're very far from that. But um, don't overwhelm yourself. I think you'll find that just the consistency in using your e-collar will open up a lot of freedom for both of you.
SPEAKER_00Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_05And then don't hold your puppy to such high expectations just yet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And this sounds so fun to walk in that I've been enjoying taking them both out. I think I have to get used to this, like, this idea that I'm not taking them out together. It's been so that's been so overwhelming to have them both. I can't do that for a while. I have to get them both better leash walkers. So somebody has to stay home in their crate.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Which Nami won't like, but he just has to do it. And it'll help.
SPEAKER_05Like, if you have the space in your car, you could put a crate in your car, go to the park, do a training session with one, and then swap them out.
SPEAKER_01I do have that. I have a van and do that.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Then yeah, load them both up, and that's what we do. You know, that's what dog trainers do. We load up our vans and go to the park, and then we just rotate the dogs and do individual training sessions with everybody.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. No, this was exactly what I needed. I just need to have some guidance.
SPEAKER_05I'm glad. Well, I hope to see you in the group calls. Um, just shoot me an email if you have any questions or if you have videos that you want me to watch and kind of like give you any clarity on.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_05Awesome. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Have a good rest of your day. Yeah, you too. Bye.
SPEAKER_05Bye. Thank you. All right, guys. I hope you enjoyed that episode. If you would like to schedule a virtual session with me one-on-one, you can do so by visiting the website. You guys can also join the community. We do live calls every Thursday at 2 p.m. And all about every other Saturday. I know some people work during the week, but my community is really supposed to be October supported dog owners tourists. Thanks for being here, guys.
unknownUh,